Hi dabigtrain,<P>I saw you are having a bad day, over in the song thread.<P>Wanna share, or keep it to yourself?<P>Love and light,<P>Jacky

Oh, it seems to be a long list of petty complaints when I write it out. Let's see-<P>- this past weekend my son and my wife had a nasty virus- fevera and chills, body aches, general misery. Saturday, they were well enough for us all to go to a local festival together, where anyone seeing us would have thought "what a happy family!" We have a good time, and then the virus hits me when I get home and I'm miserable for about 36 hours.<P>- monday, my daughter's school calls me- she's complaining of a headache. Guess it's her turn. I leave work early and bring her home. My wife comes over that evening, to help with bedtime; she and I have a nice little chat about work after. <P>- tuesday morning at 1:30 am, my daugher throws up on my bedroom floor and then has a miserable day, heaving every few hours or so. Her stomach finally calms down mid-afternoon, and she sleeps a long time. My wife comes over after work, leaves before bedtime this time- no problem there, but she kind of runs out the door, barely acknowledging my goodbye. Minor pang. I fall dead asleep at 9 pm, exhausted from the day.<P>- Wednesday morning, my daughter is feeling better, but not well enough to go to school. Wednesday should be my wife's "day"- in our normal schedule, I drop the kids at school and daycare Weds morning, and she picks them up and has them until Friday morning. If they can't go to school/daycare, it should be her responsibility. But, because my job is more flexible, and she has important committee meetings on Wednesdays, I spend the day at home with them- the way I used to when we lived in the same house. The way married people help each other out, you know? Except, of course, we're married but not a couple anymore, according to her.<P>So, this is one of those "I'm in plan A and I feel used" type of things.<P>To make it worse- she came by Wednesday morning before she went to work, and we all sat on the sofa and watched kids' TV for a while. Again, she and I are having a nice time together with the kids- but I notice that her wedding ring, which she had moved to her right ring finger some months ago, has disappeared again (her left ring finger has sported a dolphin ring for those same months, and still does. I'm not sure what symbolism she sees in that ring, but it's such a constant presence there must be some). <P>But Wednesday evening, she comes by after work to pick up the kids, decides to go out for Chinese food, and invites me along. <P>Up and down, back and forth, over/under/sideways/down.<P>And then there's the exchange at dinner Sunday night- our daughter asks why we can't all live in the same house. My wife, choosing her words carefully, says she wasn't happy living that way, and "neither was your dad." Actaully, I was ecstatically happy until she decided she wasn't happy- but I don't want to argue that point right now. I just have to swallow it. Our daughter goes on, saying she doesn't feel like she has a home without us all together, and my wife says "I wouldn't count on that." All true- we can't count on it- but boy, do I hate hearing that.<P>Saturday, my wife's friend (the one who called me by mistake a while ago) is getting married- my wife and the kids are going, and I'm (rather pointedly) not invited. Again, I could be an a%$h$&# and say "it's my weekend, they aren't going." But what good would that do? I'll just have another helping of my own disappointments.<P>OK, that was a nice vent. I feel a little better.<P>

((((((((((((((dabigtrain))))))))))))))))))<P>Hugs for you.<P>Here's a cyber bar of chocolate, too: #####<P>I just made that up! <P>You are doing the best you can, and that is all you can do...sick kids are so exhausting aren't they? This may be contributing to your present mood.<P>The wedding ring thing is a BUMMER. I know, his just disappeared...the last time I saw him I asked him if he had it somewhere safe, and he said he did.<P>Bleh, I am really down on WS's tonight, and so full of admiration for any BS that's still willing to work and Plan A. I'm not...can't anyway where I am, but it 's not important.<P>You are right now.<P>You are doing well, really. You are lucky, because you see her so often, you have the chance to Plan A nearly every day. Most of us don't have that.<P>Keep your head up man...she is in that dumb old fog, and when she comes out, and I really think she will for you, then it wil be great.<P>Love and light,<P>Jacky<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Hugs for you.<BR>Here's a cyber bar of chocolate, too: #####<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'll gladly take the hugs, but pass on the chocolate- my diet has gone to pot since she left, and I need to watch what I eat better.<P>Ever hear of the comedian, Rita Rudner? A great line of hers: "Men don't live well alone. They're not even like people- they're more like bears with furniture." Hey! I resemble that remark!<P>I'm not that bad, really, I pick up after myself and clean occassionally, but my wife is an excellent cook, one of those people who can look at a fridge full of unrelated food and make a meal out of it. My repertoire is more limited, and it's no fun cooking for just myself.<P>The wedding ring thing is especially tough, because its carries more than the usual symbolism. The diamonds were given to us by her godfather, from her godmother's wedding ring. When we got married, she thought of that as a beautiful gesture; but now, she has remembered being physically abused by the godmother (who was her baby sitter from age six weeks to five years, because her mom was a teacher). So now, she looks at the ring and sees that pain, along with whatever disappointments she has in our marriage. I've told her I want to buy her a new ring, for a new marriage, but that's not getting through to her yet.<P>Well, the kids are feeling better, and I'm not sick anymore. She looks tired and stressed, however- her (naturally curly) hair has straightened out, which is something she always says is a stress reaction (it may just be that when she's stressed, she doesn't have time to wash and dry it!), and she yawns a lot. A couple of times recently, I've received e-mails from her at 12:45 am or similar very late times, and her conversation is full of references to work that she thinks she should do that she's not getting done. All of which I was sure would happen, but I can't say "I told you so," now, can I?<P>Our story could be so simple- the stresses of two jobs, two kids, and outside career interests getting in the way of our relationship. The delicate balance of coupledom and parenthood upset. Realize that, and put it back in balance- re-emphasize the relationship. But she has complicated it in her own mind, mixed it in with the EA guy, rewritten our history to "show" how wrong we are for each other.... it's very frustrating.<P>Well, thanks for your kind words. I hope you're right about me. I know you're right that I'm doing all I can do.<P>Hope you're having a better day than I am.

Well, I'll eat the chocolate for you... I am starting to need the calories!!!<P>I LOVE Rita!!! I haven't seen any of her stuff in a long time though. Yes she is SO to the point!!!<P>You know, the wedding ring thing sounds more tough for you than most here, it also had meaning that was never intended too. EW!<P>I wanted to say that my H was telling me all the ailments he had, too before I left...he almost made me laugh when he told me he had the day off with tummy bug the day AFTER I showed him my tickets. Tummy bug? HA! Why tell me though, if he didn't want me to feel anything for him? I now think he wanted a new mummy. OW wasn't sympathetic enough! Poor baby.<P>I am glad your kids and you are all better now...these things can thankfully pass quickly. It always amazes me that our kids get illnesses now that would have killed them a hundred years ago, and we just all take it for granted.<P>BTW, bookstores often have great cookbooks for 'single guys' or students that are easy to follow and yummy, and cheap!!!<P>No I haven't had a better day...it didn't improve from yesterday...the anger level got higher, and I remembered one more probable A. Life sucks and then you die, as they say. EW how depressing!!! Better stop that! <P>I'm down, but I'm not beaten.<P>And neither are you!!!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> My wife, choosing her words carefully, says she wasn't happy living that way, and "neither was your dad." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>If that is not true, then you need to point oout that she need not put words in your mouth when they are not true. No this should not be in front of the kids, but if you are not willing to stand up to being projected onto, then you are a door mat. Plan A is not about being a door mat, but about being a good person and mate.<P>However, accepting false projection should be a no-no.<P>just my two cents worth, especially if the kids are being told a lie from your point of view. <P>just my two cents worth from listening to a former manipulative wife. boy, does speaking falsehoods for me really get me peeved.<P>WIFTTy<BR>

Hey DBT,<P>I haven't seen you on the MB lately and was wondering how you are doing...and reading your post, now I know. Do you think it may be geting closer to Plan B time? <P>Please remember, Plan B is best followed upon the heels of a flawless Plan A, and that is according to Dr. Harley!! If your Plan A is suffering, it may be time.<P>My thoughts are with you!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WhenIfindthetime:<BR>If that is not true, then you need to point oout that she need not put words in your mouth when they are not true. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You're right, and thanks for the reminder. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wifeofcop:<BR>I haven't seen you on the MB lately and was wondering how you are doing...and reading your post, now I know. Do you think it may be geting closer to Plan B time? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I've been lurking; I haven't had a lot to say. I think because my situation's pretty static right now. There are no major changes going on, and since she's only been out of the house a month, I don't expect any. <P>This week has been a bit of an abberation, what with the illnesses and such. You say "now I know" and ask about Plan B- do you mean you think my Plan A is decaying? I feel I'm nowhere near Plan B now- I've been seriously plan Aing for only about two months.

I wanted to post about her comment too, about you not being happy. Glad someone else remembered. it is not all about what she thinks, and she must realise this.<P>dabigtrain, for the record, i think you have done an exceptional Plan A. She is coming around so much, I think she must like what you are doing. Plan B should only be after a minimum of about six months of flawless Plan A, and when you feel the love slipping away...it is to preserve that love as much as you can.<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nina too:<BR>I wanted to say that my H was telling me all the ailments e had, too before I left... Why tell me though, if he didn't want me to feel anything for him?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It certainly sounds like he was trying to get a little sympathy- he's undoubtedly feeling the loss now, and was starting to then. <P>With my wife, but it's a little odd, since all last year, she was overworked and tired and often sick as well, and she has this idea (she says) that separating from me will give her more energy to deal with her daily stresses. So, she has every reason to hide it from me, to try to seem on top of the world. She doesn't really complain- it's more of a passing comment- but she doesn't hide it at all either.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>No I haven't had a better day...it didn't improve from yesterday...the anger level got higher, and I remembered one more probable A. Life sucks and then you die, as they say. EW how depressing!!! Better stop that! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Maybe more anger <I>is</I> a better day for you- you certainly sound as if you're getting along better now than when you first landed back in oz.<P>Here's my night last night: the kids were at her house, but she had a wedding rehearsal to go to- for the wedding she's going to this Saturday. She's sort of stage managing it. She asked if I would babysit and she'd owe me a night. Since I wasn't busy, I said sure. <P>So there I was, after the kids were asleep, otherwise alone in my wife's house. Maybe that belongs on the "world's weirdest separation" thread.<P>Anyway, she got home around 10, we were talking about our daughter's wish to join Girl Scouts and how we would manage that, when she got a call from an old professor of ours- he was her dissertation advisor. Now he's retired and broke, living in a senior citizen facility, and actually should be in a nursing home. He was calling her because there was no nurse on duty, he couldn't find his medication, and she was the only person he could call (it's quite sad- he had a brilliant academic career, but his personal life was a shambles, and he's slowly dying alone).<P>Anyway, she asked if I'd mind staying another half-hour or so while she went to help him, and since I was already there, I didn't mind. As she left, she said "hmmm... I wonder what the neighbors are making of <I>this</I>." <BR>I hadn't thought of it, but it is funny.<P>What's not funny is the medication turned out to be in his pocket. It's unspeakably sad.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I'm down, but I'm not beaten.<BR>And neither are you!!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Chumbawamba wrote:<BR>I get knocked down, I get up again<BR>You aren't ever gonna keep me down... (repeat)<P>Not that I think they're brilliant thinkers or anything, but sometimes that just runs through my head... over and over and over until I go <I>mad</I>.

Don't go mad....just dance along with the tune!!!<P>You know what, you are right about the anger being good for me...it gets me moving. In Oz, when you have had enough of someone, you say "Well, stuff them!" And then you get on with things. <P>BUT...Have you read my post today though? I completely bamboozled myself with his phone calls. Unbelievable what this place does to you. Go read it and give me an opinion!<P>Love and light,<P>jacky

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nina too:<BR><B>dabigtrain, for the record, i think you have done an exceptional Plan A. She is coming around so much, I think she must like what you are doing. Plan B should only be after a minimum of about six months of flawless Plan A, and when you feel the love slipping away...it is to preserve that love as much as you can.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Nina, I respectfully disagree that Plan B should only be implemented after six months of Plan A!!! Many people cannot do plan A for six months. When I spoke to Dr. Harley about Plan A last year, he indicated to me that you should do Plan A for as long as you can do it FLAWLESSLY. If DBT is flawless in his Plan A now (after two months in it) but he starts having trouble with it, he should consider moving to Plan B, rather then using a timeclock and waiting for six months...by then he may LB'ing all over the place by the time he hits Plan B, and those are the memories Mrs. DBT will have...not a pretty picture to say the least! The trick is to have DBT move to plan B after a sufficient time in a flawless Plan A, sufficient meaning enough time to indicate to Mrs. DBT that the positive changes he has made to himself and to the marriage are here to stay, that it is not a temporary thing, and those are the thoughts she should be left with while she adapts to no contact!!<P>DBT--<BR>The reason I asked you about Plan B is because I detected a hint of resentment in your post. Because you are a conflict avoider, you need to be extra careful to not build resentment right now, or it is likely to come across in your plan A and you will start to feel like a doormat.<P>I know you have talked to Dr. Harley, but I also want to emphasize to you that it is possible to Plan A for too long before going to Plan B. I just think that Plan A could and maybe even should go on longer when your spouse is living in the same house. BUT--you do know there is an OM is your wife's life right now, you just don't know to what extent. So I think that once you have proven that your positive changes from Plan A are here to stay, it is time to cut that cord. My WS recently informed me that if I had forced Plan B early on in his PA (which I didn't even know about then) our marriage would most likely not be in the turmoil that it is now. He said he would have seen what he was losing while he still cared about losing it. Once the WS is too deep in any sort of affair, they don't care what they are losing out on in the marriage.<P>One more point before I jump off my soapbox, my H. moved out on September 4th, and just during the short time he's been gone I have noticed that I am somewhat desensitized to the situation and to him. Have you felt that way too? If so, I say good for us, but when you turn it around and wonder how the WS feels being out of the every day life with us and away from the memories of our homes, it can't be getting them any closer to reconciliation, or at least you wouldn't think so. <P>There's a saying about a person not wanting something until they know they can't have it...maybe that is what goes through a WS's mind when Plan B is thrown at them, perhaps that could be the wake up call for some of these idiots...just a thought!<P>Good Luck!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wifeofcop:<BR>The reason I asked you about Plan B is because I detected a hint of resentment in your post. Because you are a conflict avoider, you need to be extra careful to not build resentment right now, or it is likely to come across in your plan A and you will start to feel like a doormat.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thanks for the clarification. I was feeling resentful when I posted that, but on the whole, I'm not. People ask me if I'm angry at her, but what I really feel is disappointment and a strange pity- the "you're going to mess up your life, and I wish I could stop it" feeling. We'll see if resentment was just this particularly tough week, or if it's a trend. I'll keep your warnings in mind.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>...just during the short time he's been gone I have noticed that I am somewhat desensitized to the situation and to him. Have you felt that way too? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'm not sure about desensitized. I've grown less fearful and needy over the last couple of months; I know I'll survive and thrive without her, but that's not what I want to have to do. I guess that's detachment, in a way. In some ways, I'm more sensitized- I'm paying as much attention to her EN's as she'll let me. But I'm not desperate.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>There's a saying about a person not wanting something until they know they can't have it...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>There's also "beware what you wish for- you may get it," which also applies in a lot of these situations.<P>

Hey Train-just catching up after some time away. Sorry to hear about the rampaging flu.<P>The ring things really hit hard, don't they. What my W has done w/ her rings has hurt more than almost anything else. In a twist of irony, I cannot wear my wedding ring any more because I've lost enough weight that it falls off my finger. Some interesting moments when it has flown off my finger after a quick movement of the hand. Almost blinded a colleague in a meeting one day. Somebody trying to tell me something?<P>Tried it on another finger, but all my friends said it looked ridiculous! So, off it came. W has not said word one about it, but I am sure she notices.<P>As for the dolphin, you can get in any good restaurant around here as 'Mahi Mahi', and it is great grilled with a peppercorn sauce. The rarer, the better. Hope you find that image helpful in the future.<P>Hang in there my friend.