Hi there-<P>I have been fighting with my WH over his wanting to have our kids wpend time with the OW. The more I fight it the more I fuel the fire you know what I mean? Anyway at first our nine year old didn't want any contact with the OW, but now says she's O.K. with it. I'm not so sure, but what can I say. Our 6 and 3 year olds, and 2 month old are pretty much oblivious. The 6 year old actually thinks that the OW is just a friend who is a girl - yikes. Here's my dilemma. My WH wants to do stuff with the kids and the OW. The 9 year old now has told him she doesn't care. I don't think the kids need to be introduced to that stuff emotionally, but when I object he says that I can't use the kids as an excuse.<P>The other night the WH announced that next weekend he plans to take the kids camping with the OW and that there's nothing I can do about it. I told him that legally I can, but that I didn't care what he did. It stopped him in his tracks. I know he was expecting a fight. I told him that I had a real problem with it moraly and expected no sexual contact and he said he wouldn't and he said he would do whatever I wanted to prove it. Given the cramped quarters and ages of the kids it would be pretty hard anyway. <P>I guess I feel that I'm tired of being the excuse they use as a road block for their relationship. I want to give them all the space they need and let it blow up in their faces. She is 21 and three hours away at college. Because of his financial situation (child support) he is working every other weekend overtime to stay afloat. The other two weekends he has the kids. This leaves them very little time together, unlike when the affair first started and he was sneaking up to see her. At the time he had it made, he was and still is for that matter living at a friends. He wasn't paying me as much child support as he now is (court ordered) so he had money to burn. He also had time because he didn't need to work the weekends. He was <BR>however lying to me saying he was working and running up to wine and dine her. She never had to share him with his kids because he then had enough time to keep them separate. I think she thought that was how it would stay. I mean why wouldn't she? She's young and naive. <P>Now that they have gone public with their relationship and she is expecting everything that usually goes with that she is more limited than ever. People have said things and aren't accepting of their relationship - duh! I guess they both were so caught up that they actually believed people would accept it with open arms. It's amazing what the fog can do! She doesn't want to come home because she's afraid people will confront her - poor baby! To top it off he's now broke and has no free time because he has to work<BR>- bummer! For him the only solution is to try to see her with the kids. That's fine for him, I mean they are his kids, but what about what she wants? I know she's thinking she loves him so of course she'll love his kids, but I think the honeymoon will be short lived. I mean I love my kids dearly, they're my life, but they also drive me nuts. Here she is 21 years old and suddenly faced with a ready made family. Unless she's a saint I think the idea of sharing her time with the kids will grow old fast. I know it would have for me at that age.<P>So here's my point. Don't you think I'm better off to sit back let him spend time with her and the kids? I really don't think either of them will do anything to hurt the kids and I do think it will cause tension between them hopefully speeding up the demise of the relationship. In the mean time I can sit back and continue to plan A and be seen in a better light. I mean I'm the one in the same town as him while she's away with the long distance relationship. I think all of this can work to my advantage. The tables are turning, I can now be the supportive, understanding friend and she can be the demanding, clingy girlfriend. <P>Am I nuts? I understand that there is also the chance that she will be great and acceoting of the kids although I doubt it, but if she is wouldn't that be better for them anyway? <P>You guys are so much more experienced with this. I'd really appreciate your input.<P>K

Well, you are stronger than me. My H took the kids out with OW ONCE, and I left the country. I did not want them subjected to his warped morals. And since I am back in my own country, I can see just how bad those morals are.<P>Do it if you truly think it will help...but my first instinct is to tell you no...it WILL confuse the kids. Nine year olds tell you what you want to hear, or what they think you want to hear...I know I have taught gazillions of them. Also I have an eight year old, and he is the same. Told me one thing, then went to school and cried his eyes out.<P>Be careful for your children...they are FAR more perceptive than you think. You must always think of them first. Always.<P>BTW, I DO think you are right about the 21 yr old being laden with an instant family...my H's OW was 36 and she didn't have kids...she had NO clue with them that day.

Hey Nina - <P>Thanks for the feedback. I'm not very strong, I just feel like my hands are tied. I am a teacher who specializes in at-risk children. I am now trying my hardest to keep my own children from being at-risk. My WH is not thinking at all right now. He is so caught up in his addictions to the OW that he just assumes everyone else should be too. It is so hard to protect my kids because right now they don't see their dad all that much and they think they have to keep him happy or they'll see him even less. This whole thing is a mess. I can handle him being selfish and not thinking about my welfare, but his casual attitude about his kids is unbearable.<P>K

You know then, through your job, the damage this kind of thing can do to kids. It is impossible for BS's to get a WS to see any of their points of view. You will never convince him that he is wrong.<P>SOOOOOOOOO, I think you need to get a restraint put on, I believe others have done so. And while it annoys the WS, it is for the protection of the kids, and one day he will realise that.<P>I told my H that I would NEVER let him do that to our kids or me again. It took him about a week to see that it was the wrong thing to do, and he said it won't happen again. But I didn't trust him. I knew if he took the kids anywhere, I would be worried sick that they would just happen to meet with OW. So I decided to go anyway.<P>One big reason that it was a wrong move, was that she told my younger kids she was daddy's girlfriend...she wrote HIS cell number on their arms in case they got lost. She WANTED me to know. I'm still fighting a terrible urge to email the B**** and tell her what I think.<P>This was a very painful thing to go through...if you don't want it to happen, do something about it.<BR>

Still reeling I have to agree with you. As the mother of a young single OW, I think that having him show up with all 4 kids might do the trick. It might be unique for her at first, but when she finds out that this is the reality of life with him she may re think. She is at school and there are so many activites in college that she will not want to miss. Having him show up with the whole brode might give her friends some heads up too.<BR>I underestand why you would not want for this to happen but they are HIS kids too and he needs to see her around them. <BR>If he takes one, he must have all because "you have things to do, places to go, and people to meet" right!!!!!!!!It may unnerve him to think that "you need time to have a life".<BR>I will be reading to see how this plays out.Good luck!<BR><P>------------------<BR>Marry

Hi Nina and Gottruth -<P>Thanks for responding. I thought about this situation all last night. It's driving me crazy. I want to protect my kids, but it's so hard being the only responsible one. It seems like everything I do to protect the kids gets thrown back in my face. The older two kids can't stop talking about the camping trip and I'm sick of being the heavy. It's so hard because when we first separated and I knew nothing of the affair my WH and I sat down and talked about what was right for the kids should we not get back together and eventually start dating other people (My God, I was so clueless!) We both read up on stuff and agreed that under no circumstances would we throw the kids into anything, we would keep that part of our life separate. At that time I think that it was strictly an EA and I don't think my husband thought he had a chance of it going further, but now that it has all his clear thinking has disappeared and it's like the kids will be fine. He's such an [censored]!<P>My husband has major issues from which he is running - hence the younger OW who is too young and naive to figure it out. In a lot of ways he seems to be closer to a breaking point than ever. I truly believe that if the OW was to end things with him it might break him and then maybe he'd face up to the issues, therefore, for everyone's sake I wish I could speed up the demise of his affair. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to sacrifice my children's stability for the sake of sabotaging the affair, but I feel like my hands are tied anyway so why not let the OW get a dose of reality.<P>Nina - <P>Hang in there. It sounds like our WH's have a lot in common. I hope everything works out the way you want it to. I'll keep you in my prayers.<P><BR>Truth -<P>It is so interesting talking to you. I often wonder what the parents of the OW in my case are feeling. Due to a blow up when I first learned of the affair they are leary of me. I really feel for them. It must be so hard to sit back and watch your child make such a huge mistake especially when they are at a stage of their life when the world is at their feet. Any suggestions? How is your daughter doing?<P><BR>K<BR>

My just turned 4 yr old told me her daddy and her were moving to Chelsea. She ask me why I wasnt coming with them. Of course my H denied the whole thing said she misunderstood what she over heard or made it up. My point is children are perseptive and smart enough to get hurt at a very young age. Please becareful and talk to your children about this even the little ones.

S.R. What do mean when you say that the parents of the OW are leary of you? They may truly want to talk to you but don't because of fear that their daughter would find out. That is our situation.<BR>My husband wrote a letter to the MM. He stated in the letter that if MM let our daughter know of the letter that other significant people in his life would also know.We know that this MM indeed did manage to have the letter in the car as he was "breaking up" with her-she found them. MM has written to my husband. It's all very strange but while he assured my husband that he would end it with our daughter he also said that if this got out, alot of inocent people would get hurt. So much for taking responsibilty!!!<BR>Any way, her parents might be open, it's hard to say. In our case, we were able to get our daughter into counseling, and we are working on building a realionship with her. Last weekend, she came over and had dinner with us. We have been very careful to stay away from any conversation about the A. Before she left, I had a chance to say, as a response to "it's over", I said, "It's OK, it doesn't matter, I love you anyway". She was startled and said,"thank you". I've heard "it's over before" I don't by it. We are in Plan A.<P>About your kids. I understand what and how you feel about not wanting them to be exposed to this mess. My new feeling is that, what messes kids up is the fighting and blaming and feeling that they have to take sides. He is their father and must be expected to act as such. He may even see better if he is not sheltered from what they will say, what the realities of his actions are causing. Ala-non has helped me to see that sheltering her has not allowed her to feel what it is like to have to live with her own choices.<BR>Our daughter is lonely and unable to SEE any single man out there because she choises to be blind. She will change it when she "has had enough"<BR>Missery is a gift and your friend, I think you understand this.<BR>Believe me when I tell you that when this young OW finds out that the money is gone and there are 4 young shaperones, she will not find this so romantic.<P><P>------------------<BR>Marry

How Are you doing?<P>------------------<BR>Marry

Hi Marry-<P>It's been a rough weekend. My father was diagnosed with lung cancer this April. Almost three months to the day that my husband moved out. On Friday, we were given a horrible prognosis by one of his doctors. Unfortunatley his specialist was out of town and unreachable. Needless to say there was a lot of stress.<P>To top it off my husband told me he had to work all weekend but would check in on the kids. In need of someone to watch the kids so I could camp out at the hospital with my family, I called him only to find out he was out of town visiting the OW for the weekend. It is such a joke! I keep trying to picture my balding, stocky husband hanging out on campus with his girlfriend and her friends. I really don't get it!<P>Now just when I have started to accept it and actually think it might be a good idea, I have to wonder if he'll even take the kids camping with her this coming weekend. A big part of me thinks he has to be worried on some level that exposing her to the kids will cause problems for their relationship ( I mean why wouldn't it?) and therefor snuck up to see her this weekend alone, but I don't have a crystal ball so I guess I won't ever know.<P>It really hurts and gets me so angry to think that he still lies about seeing her. I mean, what's the point? It's not like they're sneaking around anymore. It also hurts to go through my father's illness alone. My husband has had many trials throughout our marriage and I always stood by him. Now when I need him the most he isn't here and worse he's loving another woman or should I say girl. <P>I know they say that you have to let the affair die a natural death, but it's so hard. I wish there was a way to speed it up. It must be very hard for you to wait as parents too.<P>Anyway, thanks to a lot of great friends I made it through the weekend and today my dad's specialist said the prognosis is not as dim as the other doctor said so things are looking up.<P>I thought about what you said about talking to the OW's parents and I don't know what to do about it. I want this affair over with today so that all its victims can start healing!<P>Now that I've rambled on, how are you doing? How are things with your daughter?<P>K

I like the idea of talking to her parents. Maybe they can talk some sense into her before the kids are exposed. <P>I also like the idea of allowing him to take the kids with ow. Right now they are in a fantasy world. That may give them a little dose of reality. <P>Oh but the anguish of the kids liking ow maybe unbearable. To have them come home and tell you all about the camping trip. And OW is so funny, she said ..... And I got hurt but it is o.k. because OW gave me a hug..... or OW is great the way she handled... or mommy thats not the way OW did it. My son was 3 or 4 when he was shooting basketball with his little play set and I said "way to go!" and he said to me "mom you have to say: spooooort!, thats what ow says". my roommate heard him and said to him "lets get one thing straight, mommy is not ow". I just sat there with a fake smile and was crushed on the inside.<P>There is no right or wrong answer. Just do the best you can. You know your situation better than anyone else. <BR>

Still<BR>You have had more that enough on your plate, wow! what a weekend!!!I'm so sorry to hear about your father, this has to be such a difficult time for your family..<BR>Is your H behaivor different now and durring the A or has he always been this inconsiderate? Is he close to your family? Could he be fearful of running into them? I do believe that this says so much more about him than it does about you. It's important to know the difference so you do not take what he does as a personal reflection on you. I know that this is so very hard but I believe Ala-non is teaching me this. I used to get so hurt over selfish things my daughter would do. I'm learning to step out of the situation and see how sadly insecure she is. This is why I told you about our plan A with her and being able to tell her that "it doesn't matter, I love you anyway".<BR>Of course what I share about my daughter isn't the same as a husband and father of your children but the Plan A concept is. I actually got this from a thread about Plan A in the rest of your life. <BR>Anyway, back to you and the camping trip. He may indeed be some what afraid to include the troop in his dating BUT the sooner the better. How to get him to feel like this is a good idea and that you are OK with this?<BR>Well, first of all I would change the way I talked about the OW. You know how you feel when YOU can say something unflattering about your husband, parents or one of your kids but if anyone else does----STAND BACK!!!!!!!!!!! Well, this is kind of what happens to your H when you talk about the OW. He gets definsive and the fight is on. <BR>Darn, I have to pick up my one child still at home, a 12yr old boy. Anyway I do have some thoughts on this if your want to brainstorm. ansewer this post and I'll try to finish tonight.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Marry

Still<BR>Have you been over to the general questionsII part of the form? Some of the questions and responses are so indepth. Anyway, what I have read over in GQII is that to be very careful not to talk about the OW. Give your husband your confidence that he will do well by your kids. The theory is that "we live up to what is expected of us". If you talk to your H in terms of "I have to trust that you will do the best by our kids or I know that you would never do anything that would harm them or I believe you love them enough to -----------". Anyway, this may not even be helpful at all, I just see that when we take this approach with our daughter, she stands a little taller. <BR>If I knew how to give a LINK to you I would. Some of this stuff has been so helpful to us BUT ala-non has been the best.<BR>I've rambled enough, your story just hit me. I can't imagine how hard this is for you and your four little ones. I do hope you get some help with them.Your H is truly in the FOG!!!!!!<P>------------------<BR>Marry

Still Reeling,<BR>I, too, am so sorry to hear about your Dad and your weekend alone trying to deal with with such a crisis. Hope things improve quickly.<BR>I have thought about your situation with the camping trip and I have to say I would have to let them go with Dad and OW. (Actually we should call her OG-girl)! I have 3 kids and the youngest is 5 and they would be enuf to throw a wet blanket on any budding romance! Especially with a 21 year old! She is still a child herself. If he takes a 9, 6, 3 year old PLUS A 2 MONTH OLD INFANT on a camping trip with his teenage girlfriend it would be classic. The kids are excited about the trip and about being with Dad. They won't be hurt by this interaction. But he might. <BR>I would pay money to be a fly on the wall of that tent.<P>Please keep us posted.<P>Wiffle<P>------------------<BR>Reality<BR>It's not what you think

Hi everbody. Thanks for the great posts. I am always very interested in what you have to say. My husband called last night to check in on the kids. When they were done talking he asked to talk to me. Funny, he called on Sat. to check in while with her and when my son asked if he wanted to talk to me he said, "No, I don't have anything to say to her." Isn't it interesting how things change when the OW is sitting there. Anyway, he was all upbeat and cheery after his long weekend with the OW. He asked how our weekend was and how my dad was doing. I told him not good but that I didn't want to get into it on the phone. I also said I was lucky to have good friends who enabled me to be up at the hospital a lot. His cheerful tone got really sad and full of guilt. He asked if there was anything he could do and I said no that we were handling it. There actually is a ton he could do, but he's not interested in really being there for me. Nonetheless, I felt better after talking to him knowing that I had survived a really rough weekend without him and that we both knew it.<P>It must have been quite stressful for him to return to reality. He works swing shift. Right now he's on 11 pm to 7 am. This morning my two youngest and I were in town and I saw his truck at a bar at 10:00. So much for getting sleep. To top it off he was picking up the three oldest kids (still one month left until he takes the baby) at 3:00. Well, he showed up at 2:45, to get the three year old before meeting the other two at school at 3:00, looking like death. I asked if he was tired he said he was that he didn't get much sleep. I didn't mention that I'd seen him. He then asked if I was leaving the house. I said yes for awhile he then asked if I'd be leaving it open for them. I asked why. He then told me he was broke, had nothing to do, and nowhere to bring them and walked out the door. I know he assumed I'd leave the house open for them, but I couldn't. When is he going to grow up? Of course he's broke, but it didn't stop him from running off to campus to see the OW this weekend, it didn't stop him from going to the bar this morning. He is so irresponsible at times! Now I feel guilty locking the kids out, but I can't enable him.<P>No word yet about the status of the camping trip, but I really hope it's still on. I'll keep you posted.<P>Marry -<P>As hard as it is I have stopped berating the OW. That means that I don't even mention her because it's really hard not to bad mouth her once she's mentioned. As for if he's always been this inconsiderate, yes and no. He grew up in a totally abusive family where you looked out for yourself because nobody else did, this has been a very hard habit to break. Combine this with exteme insecurity due to abandonment/abuse and you get problems. It's really sad bacause if he'd just deal with his issues and start liking himself he's a really great person. I guess it's easier to run. I'm interested in any thoughts that you have on this.<P>Not heard -<P>I hear you about hearing about the OW. They've met her once. He too them swimming with her at a pool for a couple of hours(nothing too long mind you) and I got to hear all about it. I can honestly say that I've never had knives cut that sharp before!<P>Wiffle -<P>I agree about stifling the romance. I know this girl is young, naive, and not too experienced, but I would have to think she's totally nuts if she us really ready for the ready made family. So far she's been in a fantasy land, but let's face it, it's Sept. 2001 this is real life here. Talk about sacrificing your future!<P>K<BR>

Still,<BR>Thanks for the insight into your H back ground. It's valuable information to know when looking at behaivor and his is typical for the result given in his life. "Ala-non"<BR>I'm glad you said that you did not want to enable him when he has clearly spent money foolishly. <BR>When he asked if he could help, don't enable him here either. You could use his help and you should expect it. I know that this may sound far fetched but sometimes if we expect the worst, we get it and SOMETIMES if we expect the best, we get that too.<BR>It's hard to put faith in someone who continually lets us down, this I truly know. This is a new concept for us but we have seen results the more we are consistant with this. <BR>Think about how hard we work or a boss who always says "I can always count on you".<BR>Now I know that this isn't a "drinking at 10am good for nothing Husband who is hurting me all the time", I know that. But the MB principals are about getting the love back in your life. We do that by making the "lousey jerk" feel better about us and himself when he is with us. Let him help. He needs to, he just doesn't know it. When he offers, thank him for the offer and tell him that you really could use his help doing-----.Set up a time for him to do this deed and expect that he will do it. Show him how much it meant to you when he does it. Kind of like a child ya? Well, by what you have said about his background, he is a child. He knows he has "done wrong", he knows he is hiding from being a man, he knows what you think and what your friends and family think. And they're RIGHT! But being right doesn't solve the problem. If you can step out of the situation and look in, boy this is so hard, I do know this, but it is by looking in that we are more able to see. Just give it some thought.<BR>The MB principals are also about, "if this marriage doesn't work, then at least we can get along for the kids". He could still be an allie.<BR>Just think on these things.<BR>BTW I also taught school though you couldn'tell by my spelling. I sure wish these threads had spell check. <P>------------------<BR>Marry

Truth-<P>You are so right with everything you say here. I am learning just how much I have always enabled him. In addition to being a teacher my specialty is at-risk students. Yes I got my master's in this as a way of figuring out my husband as well as my students. I have a very good friend who is also a psychiatrist and professor specializing in dysfunctional family survivors. He has always told me that I didn't break my husband and I can't fix him either, that he has to do it himself. Anyway I have a lot of background in the area, but knowing what to do and doing it are often different things. <P>You are right that I need to let him help and I try to and I think it helps us. The biggest thing is that this is such a roller coaster. As soon as he opens up and lets his guard down he pulls away with a vengence, it's so hard!<P>Last night I go home and he was waiting sith the kids. He didn't say anything to me. I know he was mad at being locked out, but he survived. He wouldn't even look at me for that manner, but as he was leaving I nicely told him that I hoped he could get some sleep then and to have a good night at work and I meant it.<P>As for the coming weekend. Camping is out I guess they think it's too cold. They are now meeting the OW at a hotel halfway between our home and hers for some swimming and stuff. I don't know how he'll afford it, but who knows. Hopefully my kids will be themselves and shed some reality on the situation. I guess it upsets me so because how do I compete? Don't get me wrong, I do not want to be 21 again, but come on, of course she's fun and unconditionally supportive, she's young with nobody to think of but herself. She has no real responsibilities and she lives out of town so she doesn't see him enough to get to see the real him with his issues. It's so unfair!<P>As for your daughter, I have a question. Did her lover leave his family or is he still with his wife? If I was to contact my OW's parents what would I say?<P>Let me know.<P>K

K---I had a feeling that you had some understanding about your H background because of the way you wrote about it. Knowing is the first step. As you said, knowing what to do about it is altogether different. This is where Ala-non can help. I know that I keep urging you to go but you brought it up so I know that you have been thinking about it already. I have a great group, about 30 people. I started going because a friend of mine goes and asked me to go with her. I believe that my daughter has a relationship addiction. She wants to feel "special" and because he is a DR. I think she thinks SHR has something. (Her father, my husband is a DR.) Also she is into tringles with me. I have taken myself out of the tringle.<BR>One thing that MB says is that "substance abuse" presents a different situation in the dynamic of the relationship. I urge you to go to the "just found out" section of this sight and read all you can. There is "SO" much information there. <BR>My daughter says that "it's over" but I don't believe her. He has not left his wife and family. He is a Morman Bishop and if they knew, he would be excomunicated. Actually, I believe that there is a cover up going on because I know that some of them know. We thought they knew but as it turns out, the Bishop told the Stake President that this was just an innocent on line thing, that she is just a needy girl who he was helping and that it's over. LIE, LIE, LIE!!!!!!!!!!!! I know about this because someone I do business told me about it. We live over an hour away from MM. Our daughter has moved because of her job and lives between him and us. At least he can't have access to her every day as he used to.<BR>You are right about your OW being not in the reality of the situation. I wish that our daughter would get a good dose of<BR>what her life would be like. She would never see him, and she would become his babysitter when he had the kids, four boys 12 to 3. I have read that if I fight this, she will do everything she can to prove me wrong. This is why I have to be out of it. This is why I had to say, "It doesnot matter, you can admitt if he is still around, I love you anyway". I need to be out of the equasion. I need to love her, "no matter what". I'm truly learning to do this. I'm not AS angry (I still would like to expose him-or run over him). I'm learning to look at her in a different way. MB has helped so much with this. I see all these stories and see that we all have our problems and our "cross to bear". I was saying to myself, "when my D is OK I will be happy, when she is OK I will loose weight, work out, have my life back". You can see that in a way I have been acting as if I was the BS in this situation. Well, MB and ala-non have helped me to see that I have to love her the way she is and live my life NOW. So I am, I'm working out, joined "weight watchers" and my husband and I are reading the Harley books together.<BR>I'm not sure what to say about the OW parents. You seem to know more about them than our MM's wife knows about us. I wish she knew that we hate it but it is my experence that our Daughter would find out and we would be back in the same old stuff. She needs to learn this lesson and hit bottom with it. Missery is her friend!!!<BR>If you contacted her parents, you might approach someone who knew them first, or just ask to talk to them or send them the SAA book. The problem comes in when she finds out that you have talked to them and she then tells your husband. They then have horrible things to say about you so they can rationalize why they are together. "It's them aginst the world". This is why plan A is so important. Don't give them a way to "fuel the fire". <BR>If I can learn how to do the red links, I will bring them over to you. In the mean time, and I know that you already know this, "you can't change him BUT you CAN change your reaction to him". <P>------------------<BR>Marry

Truth-<P>The more I hear from you the more I feel for you or should I say us. I wish my husband and your daughter and their lovers could see how much devestation they cause. <P>It is good to hear that you're doing stuff for yourself. I am too. I actually look and feel better than I have in years, not that I was in horrible shape, but I am definately better now. Hopefully our positive changes will be noticed.<P>This is such a vicious cycle. I am really trying to step back and try to view things without the emotional attachment. It has given me a much clearer head and I find my reactions much calmer. I think this has given him some food for thought as well. I know him so well and have predicted so many of his actions, but this works two ways. Now with me changing he seems a bit perplexed. The changes have been for the better I might add.<P>I would have never asked for the situation I am in, but in many ways it has made me a better person. My only prayer now is that he will get some clarity in all his confusion and work to fix this mess.<P>Take care,<BR>K

K---- I went over to "just found out" and bumped up two threads for you. Most notable posts and welcome to new commers. I tried to find out how to use the link transfer, but I'm not computer savy enough to even unterstand what it all means. There is a lot of reading here. I know that with 4 kids, working full time and being a single parent doesn't leave much time for this stuff. <BR>I would say that the substance abuse and his background really brings in an equasion that does not have anything to do with you. You did not cause it and you will not be able to fix it. You said that, didn't you? anyway it's true. BUT you don't have to enable it! or react the same way to it!<BR>That's where I am right now.I don't want to in any way enable it. However, I am her mother and I have caused some of it. That's really hard to handle. <BR>I have to admitt that writing this to you helps me to clarify for me. <BR>I'm glad to see that you are taking care of yourself. Part of the Plan A, as I have read, is becoming stronger, setting boundrys, and generaly working on yourself. If he notices-that's great, but he has so many other issues that he may not be able to see past his own self right now. He may need to hit rock bottom before he is willing to go to a program that will help him. Does he have any mentors in his life? Pastor, good friend, family member he respects? <BR>We got our daughter into counseling by telling her that if she didnot go, we would expose him. She has been going for about 1 1/2 years. In that time she has finished college, started a really great job and moved. It's progress but he still is around I'm sure.<BR>I'm working on "providing a safe place for her to talk". No love busters and disrespectful judgements. I had NO idea how bad I was with the disrespectful judgements, you know digs, sarcasm. I'm suprised she could stand to even come home. I DO NOT do this any more at all!!!!! thanks to MB and Ala-non.<BR>I love what you said about his being perplexed over your changes. I really believe that when we react in "NOT the same old way" that it realy throughs them off. I will take that and use it myself-thanks.<P>------------------<BR>Marry