Marry-<P>I went over and read some of the general posts. You're right, they hold a lot of usefyl information. I really enjoy hearing from you, it gives me a different perspective and is really motivating. <P>Last night we had a really hectic night. We got home late from helping with my dad. This of course made everything late, supper, homework, etc. I was sitting there helping the oldest two with homework, nursing the baby, and be jumped on by the three year old. I really could have lost it, but all of a sudden I thought if you lose it now it'll really fall apart. I kept calm and so did the kids. I got an eery sense of peace. It was like, hey things aren't exactly what we planned, but overall we're doing great and we'll be o.k. About an hour later my WH called to say goodnight to the kids. He sounded down. My oldest daughter was mad at her brother, but the end result was that she refused to speak to her dad. I could tell he felt horrible. We had a nice talk and I told him to have a good night - I really meant it. I guess the phone call reaffirmed for me that he really isn't as happy as he'd like us to think. I know he is very confused. I am going to keep plan A'ing it and who knows. At least I know I'm o.k.<P>I'll talk to you soon.<P>K

K---------It sounds as though your night wasn't so bad after all. I am amazed at what can come out of the worst situation. <BR>Last night I went to my Ala-non meeting. Someone spoke about the "onion peel" effect of learning a lesson. I'm sure you have heard this before but I'll remind you. Any way, it helps me to write it for myself. Every lesson we learn, about our situations and about ourselves, is done in layers. Each time we are faced with the same, or simular problems, we can see it in a new light, from a different angle, with renewed awareness. Each layer brings us deeper to the core of "owning" our path. Every new understanding makes us more confident in our resolve.<BR>This really spoke to me. I always thought that what I was doing was being a "good mother". I would gather articals for her to read, shame her (this is hard for me to write), use disrespectful judgements about her spending habits and anything else that came up--the A. All this got me was a daughter who didnot want to be around me.{DUH) This was not the result I thought I should have, after all "look what I have done for her" right!? <BR>Over time, with lots of reading, I have a new understanding, awareness. It didnot stop all at once. It has been like the onion, in layers, in time. Each time I refrained from this behaivor and just gave her my trust, each time I listened and did not respond with advise, suggestions, sarcasm, I would get an increesingly better response. I want to NOT be part of the problem. I WANT to be part of the solution.<BR>Of course, this is not the same with a husband and wife. You transferr the concept to your own situation in your own way. It sounds like you were able to do that last night and I applaud you for it. It's hard to be kind and understanding, it's hard to listen and acknoledge feelings when you have clearly been the one HURT. It's understandable for you to want to LOOSE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!<BR>BUT where are we going to be, what is it going to get us. MB says that we have to change the way we relate to them if we want to be effective. <BR>If you have a chance, read some of the stuff on Plan A. I think that in "most memerable posts" there are some threads with unbelieveable responses.<BR>I have to say that I truely congraulate you for keeping it together last night. I was picturing this scene in my mind and thought WOW!!!!!!!! I know that in thoes days I would have LOST IT. I think you are doing great. I think your Husband is hiding from himself because HE KNOWS that he is not being THE MAM. <P>------------------<BR>Marry

K-----I just remembered something! I remember reading a thread that had responses from one of the really successful BS. She said that she would invite her WH over once a week to "help the kids with homework". She would make sure that the house was in order and that dinner was made, I think that he stayed for dinner but NOT the night. Anyway, she said that she provided a safe (no relationship talk)and cozy "family night" for him to take with him in his thoughts. <BR>I don't know if this is anything that could be duplicated in your own way, But it is creative.<BR>especially right before he sees the OW. <P>------------------<BR>Marry

Marry-<P>I've heard the onion peel story before and you are so right. The more I go through this the more I learn about myself. Like you I have learned that I made a lot of shameful comments and disrespectful judgements of my husband. At the time I just wanted him to get better and believe in himself. Looking back I see why it obviously backfired.<P>This morning I saw my husband's truck at a bar. When he didn't show up to get the three year old at 2:45 I got the youngest two gathered up and we ran and picked the older two up at school. At 4:15 my H called in a panic, he had just woken up. He apologized profusely and I said we were fine. He said he'd be right over. I told him to take a deep breath and drive safely. When he showed up he started apologizing again. I told him everyone makes mistakes and everything had turned out fine. He kept berating himself. It was so weird. Normally I would have gone nuts. Today I stayed calm and forgiving. What happened? It made him realize what he had done and think about it. The kids asked where they were going and he said he thought they'd just hang out at home tonight. We made small talk and then I went to leave. When I did he said, "Oh, you're leaving?" He almost sounded disappointed. I told him I had things to do, but would be back.<P>I don't know what is happening here or where we are going. He is still taking them on the big getaway with the OW this weekend, but he seems weird. I figure by doing my best at Plan A'ing it like I have he'll leave with nothing but pleasant memories of me. I have handled everything so well these past couple of weeks and I see a difference in him. Hopefully this coupled with my kids being there energetic demanding at times selves will throw a wrench into their weekend, but who knows. <P>By the way, don't be too hard on yourself with mistakes you've made in the past. We all make them, they help us grow.<P>K

K----------WOW, WOW, WOW, that was so incredable! You said, "normally I would..............but this time I was just calm". You nailed it on the head! Reading this tonight made it so clear. You didn't have to do anything but be nice and understanding and HE took care of the berating job himself. He can't be mad at you now. You have taken yourself out of the way. This is what I have read would happen, it's just classic. <P>Why does it take so much hard work to see this? I'm not referring to you, I'm referring to myself and anyone who is prone to "loosing it". It seems so easy yet so hard.<BR>I'm printing this out as a reminder. I really thought this was the right direction, now after reading this story tonight, I'm convienced of it. You see, I don't see my D very much so the progress is hard to see. I "think" that I have seen progress but not as dramatic as what you experienced today.<P>This may not be life changing but he has to have this good memory lingering in his brain. I have read from others on MB who have had success, that they, WS, do notice intime.<P>Thanks for saying that I should not beat myself so much and that we all make mistakes. I feel I have no excuse for not knowing better. I'm over 50, well educated, (though I can't spell)have great parents, and a pretty decent husband. MY daughter spent the better part of a year dealing with her hate for me in theapry. I guess the good news is that I believe that I have "got it".<P>I'm so tired I can hardly think but I'm going to be gone most of tomorrow and I was so excited when I read your post that I did not want to waite to respond.<P>I just reread my own words and had another thought. I said, <BR>my daughters hate for me. I believe it's self hate transfered to me. Your H has been angry at you but it self anger transfered to you. They know what they both have done is wrong. It's easier to direct the anger to someone else and we stood in the path. I'm not going to be in the path anymore.<P>Well, I truly want to see how this weekend turns out. This is going to take a bit of time to shake down. <BR>You have the formula!<BR> <BR> <P><P>------------------<BR>Marry

Marry-<P>Thanks for responding. I got home last night and he was so nice. He did the dishes for me and I thanked him. I said my life has been so hectic it's been hard to keep up and he said let me know what I can do to help. I said thanks, I'll remember that. He apologized again for the afternoon and I said we all make mistakes. As he was leaving I asked him if next week he would be able to help me fix a security light that isn't working in our backyard and he said sure. He left on very good terms.<P>I agree with what you said about them projecting their anger with themselves on us. I believe both my H and your D are very angry with themselves, but when we mishandle their mistakes and make disrespectful judgements we enable them to be angry at us and put the blame on us. This makes so much sense so why is it such a hard lesson for us to learn? I wish I had figured this out years ago then I probably wouldn't be in this mess.<P>I talked to a friend on the phone last night, she knows my H very well. She agreed that he is probably not knowing quite what to make of me. She then said more importantly that I sounded happier than I have in a long time. She's right by removing myself from his problems I am doing better.<P>He is still going away with the OW or should I say OG(girl) and my kids this weekend. This is very difficult for me, but by accepting that I can't change it and instead focusing on what I can change I feel better. I am still praying for the weekend to be a flop, but I also realize that these things take time and by not letting him see things bother me I am making progress. <P>Take care-<BR>K

Marry and K,<P>Sorry, but I had to jump in here because I feel you two are doing such a great job.<P>K, I loved that story about him being late and how you acted...know what's happened? Plan A has internalised in you. There has been a definite change...and look what you learned! There is such power in that.<P>Marry, as a mother I can relate to how you must be feeling, to think your D is involved with a MM. My girls are only five and four, but oh how I so want them to be happy as adults. Look at you, Marry, surfing the web to help your D, one day I hope you will be able to tell her what you did for her, such a loving act!<P>Love and light,<P>jacky

Jacky-<P>Thanks for the support. Both you and Marry have taught me so much. I wish I had started coming here ages ago. It has helped me so much. You are both doing great jobs handling your situations. <P>I agree with you about Marry's love for her daughter. Of my four children three are girls. The thought of them being the OW when they get older is so heartbreaking. I want so much more for them then handling someone else's baggage. Even though he's involved in the A, I know my WH agrees. It's funny, he wants better for his children, but it's o.k. for him. Talk about confusion!<P>Well, anyway, I know I owe you both for a very nice Plan A send off of my kids earlier today as they left to go spend the weekend with dad and the OW. It wasn't easy, but I let go. Just a couple of weeks ago I would've pulled him aside and majorly LB'd, but today I was friendly and supportive. I know he's noticing the changes in me and it's making him a bit uneasy, but I guess only time will tell where we're headed.<P>Thank you both for everything!<P>K