Your right, it was taking a long time to load. She is still going places for a couple of hours and not telling anyone where she has been. This is driving me crazy. I know it should not let it bother me but it does. She may just be with one of her friends or maybe she is with someone else. I guess that`s what is tearing me up, the not knowing.I really don`t want to ask her where she has been because that causes an argument and pushes us farther apart. I did ask her last night because I worked and was trying to get up with her, she got irritated and said why do you worry about where I`ve been. I didn`t persue it any farther. she slept on the couch after that. This is getting so strange with her actions and it driving me crazy. I have a phone counseling session next week and I hope it helps me deal with all of this.I don`t want to make things worse than they already are. Any suggestions that might help me deal with this?<p>[This message has been edited by confused58 (edited June 29, 1999).]

Confused........<P> Thanks for starting a new post. Well if she feels like me when I go somewhere I get the 3rd degree. And thats not right either. I don't know if you should just let her do what she wants and leave it at that. Maybe if she sees it does not bother you what she does she might think twice about going. I don't get out that often I am always home and that gets to me right now. I feel like I am in a cage and someone is suffocating me. I guess because don't know to many of my friends that go out on weeknights. Most work full time. But I do know I need to start getting out before I lose it. Thats another reason why trying to get this part time job. Well keep me informed please. Been a few days since heard from you. I am still really struggling here. :-(

Confused, I don't give advice well so I'll just explain some of my story. My W started going out on her own last July and denied having being involved with anyone for three months. She gave me the standard ILYBINILWY. She eventually moved out when I pushed the issue after she was going out with a "friend". She lived on her own for six months while I took care of the kids, 8 and 10 years old. She initially wanted a divorce and she was sure that was what she wanted. I wouldn't give her a quick divorce. She moved out in November. We talked in December and she wasn't happy with her situation, but she wouldn't commit to working on our marriage or divorcing, she wouldn't even quit seeing the OM. In February, I told her if she wasn't willing to make a decision on what she wanted to do I would make it for her. Not the MB way, but......She wouldn't budge either way. In March, I told her since she wouldn't give me a dissolution(quick and easy, but you have to agree on everything), I was going to file and cite adultery as the the reason. I guess this got her thinking, She missed the situation she had, she knew she couldn't afford to take care of the kids, she was locked in to having to work to pay her bills, etc. Anyways, she has been back since April and things are ssslllloooowwwllllyyy improving. It turns out she didn't quit seeing OM till I seriously pushed divorce. <BR>I had some really bad times, but I wasn't ready to quit the marriage. When I reached the point and wanted to quit, she had had enough time to think about what she was doing. Maybe it was the push-pull see-saw thing, I'm not really sure. I do know things are finally getting better after 9 months of loneliness. <BR>Good luck, Mike<BR>

Hi confused,<BR>Ive read most of your post and I am saddened by what I feel your W is doing.<BR>This is only my humble opinion. <BR>True: she's been hurt by you in the past<BR>False: She is trying to work on the marriage and communication.<BR>I think she has XXL resentment towards you and is punishing you for mistakes made in the past.....something clearly you have been working on and want to save.<BR>From what I can tell this has been an emotional rollercoaster for you both over the Last 6 months? Has she given you a crumb to snatch up in the last 5 days? Is there any sign on her part that she is willing to try? I at one time was detaching myself from my husband...came close to leaving. I too needed space because of emotional damage. Point here is that it didnt take me 6 months or 3 months to figure out that I love my H, to see that he was sincerely making changes, I was making changes. ect. We are now doing very well..and those loving feelings are back. Yep they were gone for awhile...but I never was ugly to my husband.<BR>I know there are kids involved, and probably 15+ years of marriage with this woman....You've given her space. Go ahead, try hugging her again when your in bed...I'd give her till the end of July... if you get no positive responses....let her go. I think that her 25 year old friend is a problem...and that she is looking at the other side of the fence at the single life....being reinforced by this person who has probably been given very priviledged info about you and how bad"you f***** up" This person will never know your side....so be it. At the end of July..call her on her intentions with your marriage. She should be able to say Yes or No to trying. <BR>WE CHOOSE TO WORK AT A MARRIAGE OR NOT. She is choosing not to work and to harbor resentment. When we say or act loving to our spouses we tend to feel that way again. Love is powerful as is kindness and forgiveness. People can get those loving feelings back if the problems are acted upon early enough. I hope things work out! I hope also that my post didnt come across as Harsh. Is she in counciling? Are you?<BR>Chin up <BR>ruby<p>[This message has been edited by ruby (edited June 29, 1999).]

wonder, she has a job covering a small area so she is on the road most days at different sites. I don`t think I`m suffocating her by just asking her where she was, do you?After work a lot of night is when she calles her co worker to go out with her. I believe she went out with her again last night. But I didn`t ask her where she was or who she was with. I had a friend of mine over and she sat down and talked to us for a while and then went to sleep on the couch. Why there, I don`t know<BR> Hopingfor the best- Thanks for your thoughts. The more I think about it , Maybe I`m naieve, stupid or both, but I really don`t think when she goes out she is seeing another man. I really believe that She is going out with her girlfriend. Now what happens when she goes out with her and who they meet is anyones guess. This girl does have a boyfriend for the past 3 or 4 years and he works a lot of hours. Thats why she has to time to go places with my wife.I`m glad to hear that it looks like you are at least making progress. My problem is that we have been at a stand still for several months. How long do you let this last? I think she doesn`t realize how difficult financially it will be to live on her own. She hasn`t said anything the past 2 weeks about moving out. I think she is really mixed up.<BR>ruby-thanks for your thoughts.you are right she has made no attempt at our marriage. We have been at a standstill for a while now. I really think if I gave her a hug she would get upset and tell me to get away from her. About a week ago I tried to get close to her before we went to sleep but she pushed me away. I haven`t gotten any positive responses from her.She has slept on the couch the past 2 night. Why, I don`t know. The past several months she slept in bed. The first 2 months she slept on the couch. She has some really erratic behavior. Some days she will talk to me about anything but us. Other days she won`t hardly talk at all, just give yes and no answers. Is this a change of life or midlife crisis, I don`t know. She won`t let me get close to her at all. That`s why most days I don`t know how to act around her. We have been married 20 years and our kids are 18,15 and 10. She won`t go to counceling but I have an appointment with dr harley next week for phone counseling.<P><BR>[This message has been edited by confused58 (edited June 30, 1999).]<p>[This message has been edited by confused58 (edited June 30, 1999).]

Confused.......<P> I agree dear she is really confused just as I am. No I don't think its wrong for you to ask where she is going. What I am saying is sometimes I feel its the way he asks me where am going or why I was out that way that hes checking up on me. Like I said I don't get out much except for work so the 3rd degree is not necessary here. There have been a few times I went out with girlfriends on a Sat night. But during the week I am home. Actaully home to much. Ya know I got a call yesterday for a job interview I applied for last week. When I hung up hubby said do you have an interview I said yes. Thats all he said not a thats great hope goes well and you get it. NOTHING. That was the biggest damn slap in the face to me. It was cold and heartless. Hes always contridicting what he says too. One min he says I back you in anything you decide to do. Then when told him about this job and how I could work Friday nights. He said every Friday night. I said what do I do on Friday nights NOTHING I sit home. Hes worried about himself of coarse being very selfish there. So I hope I get this job for ME for once. I think deep in my heart he needs to be on his own. He takes advantage of mr to much. I have worked part time for years now and both jobs I do are very very part time. This new one would be more hours maybe 20 a week. So maybe one closed door will open for me. I still feel no love for him like a spouse and the more he says that kind of crap the more I know this man is not right for me. In due time is all i say. Keep in touch Confused.

wonder- good luck on the new job. I hope it works out for you. Sometimes something like this picks up your spirits and takes your mind off of other things. It could bring about a whole new attitude in you. If it makes you happy, that`s all that counts. hang in there.

Confused.........<P> Thank you for wishing me good luck on the job. I do need it. When I applied the gal told me they keep really busy. I said great thats just what I am looking for. I also want it for me to take my mind off things here at home. Maybe I can come to more peace with myself seeing that I can do it alone. Thats what I really need to know. I know I cannot give up my one part time job it has saved me from actually hitting rock bottom. And when i go to this job I don't think about anything but what I am there to do for those people there. How are things this week with you? I know deep down I still have to find me and I have to make me happy first. Thats another reason I am looking for a different job. Hang in there I am trying but still its very very hard.

it`s been 6 months since my wife broke the news to me. She still walks around treating me like a stranger. I can`t believe how things have gradually gotten worse since she told me this. I had hoped they would get better. By worse I mean she has been cutting me out of her life completely except to say a few things to me each day. When she first told me this we did do a few things together but now she doesn`t want to talk about it. I really wanted to ask her to do something this weekend but after what happened over memorial day weekend when I asked her, I`m not so sure I want to stir things up again. Each day I feel her pushing her out of my life and it is so helpless felling like this because ther is nothing I can do or say about it. If I try , I found out it only makes it worse. Actually I`m tired of not doing much, or doing things with a friend, I really long to do or go somewher with her. I guess thats what really bothers me, we used, just 6 months ago, to do everything together. How can she just shut herself down like that. I could tell by the way she acted last night and this morning that it was her time of the month. She gets really moody, and I can tell she is in some pain, but will not see a doctor.She gets angry even more at everything that is said to her. I know to really lay low for the next week. Maybe that is part of her problem. I wish I could somehow help her.

This is going from bad to worse. I actually thought things were getting a little better. This morning she said she was no longer contributing to family finances and that she was saving her money for a place of her own. We need to incomes right now so I tiold her that I couldn`t do it on my own. The same discussion we had last month. I know a big confrontation is coming and I don`t think it can be avoided. I can`t believe the way she has turned her back on us. Even the kids. If you asked me 8 months ago, I would swear she would never do that. I don`t know what has gotten in to her. She spends more time and talks to her friend more than she does her own kids. She is pushing all of us out of her life. I`m not going to let her ruin the kids lifestyle. I really don`t know what to do next, but I`m Not going to be so quiet next time. She accumulated one half of the debt. As a matter of fact she is the reason for most of it. She thinks she is just going to walk away. The kids know hw strange she has been acting. She really got into it with the oldest today. Part of it is his age, the other part is him knowing what`s going on. I`m in need of some quick advice.

Confused..........<P> If she so wants to be on her own and is also pushing her own kids away. My advice to you is to kick her out. Let her be on her own like she sounds like thats how she wants it. I understand her pushing you away but to avoid her own kids thats morally wrong as a mother. But I can tell you one day she will want back in her kids life and might just be to late. Tell her why wait till she has her money saved let her go now. Less pain for you and the kids. Sounds like shes not there half the time for them anyways. Right now sounds like when she is there for kids shes not if ya get my drift there. Sorry getting worse. Seems that way for me too. We cannot even talk and he takes everything I say wrong. Really beginning to hate it more and more each day here. This has to end SOON.

you`re right she`s not here even when she is here. She has been out most nights this week. Last night she got home at 12:30. God only knows when she`ll come home tonight. She is supposed to work until 5, but I`ll bet she does something with her friend again, like I think she did last night. My youngest one went out of town to visit with her grandparents. She hasen`t even called her once this week. I`ve talked to her 3 times and she asked me where mom was. I told her , working. This is getting where I can`t stand it much longer. I don`t know how running with her friend all the time can replace being with her family.

Confused.........<P> I don't know what running around with her friend can do that her family or kids don't. For some reason this is fulfilling needs of some sort for her. If I may be honest don't know if this will help or not. Awhile back ago I told my hubby that I never really was a wife. I was a sitter to him and Mom to my kids and a housekeeper. He actually pushed me away as a wife. So in all reality I don't know what being or feeling like a wife really is. I am bitter towards men and marriage because of this. And yes its to late for me to be his wife. He took advantage of me there for nearly 15 years counting even the times we were dating. He picked his friends over me too. Now he does not drink he does not hang out with the same friends cause they are still drinkers. But he does envy me because I do have many friends whom I can talk to and he really doesn't. That is something I cannot do for him. Since quit drinking he has to find different things to enjoy to and thats been hard for him also but in my eyes he does not try enough. Funny all those years I wanted him to do things with me and together as a couple. But he never would. Now he wants me and I don't want him or to do things with him. Funny how things change huh? And no its not getting back I don't want to do things with him its cause I feel very uncomfortable. Hes a stranger to me now. And I am sure I am to him also. Yes now and then we do things together but when we do we hardly talk or if we talk its like friends not a couple if you understand that. It hasn't changed and I don't think it ever can not for me. Its gone those once feelings I thought I had and I don't know if I will ever feel that way again about anybody. I am bitter as hell. But I am trying to find me to make MYSELF happy fully someday again. And its not easy at all :-(

I know a confrontation between the two of us is coming real soon. When she does leave I will have no choice but to see a lawyer to get immediate child support. The lawyer tod me he can get that in about 3 days. That is really going to put a stake between the 2 of us even more, but I can`t be making the decision each pay day on which bills I don`t pay or the kids don`t eat. She`s not going to live clear and free and Us to have to scrape. I wanted to talk to her about htis sometimr in the near future, and come to some type of compromise. I asked her yesterday if we could take some time this coming week and talk and she said she was through talking, she was not living in an unhappy marriage and that was that. I wanted to try to explain the financial part of it to her and try to come to some sort of agreement that we could somehow work on our marriage but she still refuses to try. Everyone I talk to can see her personality change over the past 5 months and most that I talk to think she is going through some change of life. RThere is no talking to her, she gets mad at most things I say or do, even when I am helping her do something. It almost is enough to give you a complex.

Confused,<P>I would advise you to avoid a confrontation at all costs. To me it seems that things have clearly moved to the point where it will be necessary to let your lawyer do the talking. I think if your wife is going to be that unreasonable, you will only make matters worse until she settles down a bit.<P>Here are my suggestions:<BR>- let her mover out as soon as possible. This will set precedence for primary care, visitation, etc. If you give her enough rope, it sounds like she might hang herself.<BR>- Start seeing a lawyer now. Draft up something reasonable and fair.<BR>- Include yourself as primary care for the children, etc.<BR>- Include appropriate child support figures, etc. Your lawyer will know the dance.<P>With any luck you can get it signed before the economic realities set in for her. If you try to get her to agree to reasonable economic terms while she's in her "state", I think there is a good chance things could go ugly. Let her move out. It will reduce some of the tension. Then let your lawyer get busy.<BR>

Confused.........<P> Hang in there hon. I know I am not happy with my spouse either but there is noway I would leave my kids. I do have some common sense and besides I am the one who does everything pretty much for them so I know they would be lost. So would I. Nonpulsed is right don't push her buttons anymore. She just might blow. Let your lawyer do all that. Thats what we pay those damn big bucks for. And I think hes right by saying give her enough rope she just might hang herself. I don't understand how women can just leave there kids like that. Unless they don't think they are a good Mom. There are times I have been so down I wondered if my kids would not be better off with another. If you get my drift there. Maybe thats where she is coming from. Like you told me one day at a time. I wish I did have a crystal ball for us but I don't. Its hard for me not to think about the future that I could maybe actually be happy again one day. We both can I think. Ya know what they say good things come to those who wait. GEEZ have I been waiting too. Huggs to ya.

Not meaning to be intentionally contradictory, but I believe good things come to those who go out and get them. Confused, in this case the good (or shall we say better than nothing) things you need immediately are probably:<BR>- a reduction in hostilities (for the kids if for no other reason)<BR>- an equitable financial settlement<BR>- appropriate care for the children<BR>- as much stability for the children as possible<BR>- an equal playing field<P>It seems to me that the easiest way to get all of this would be to let her move out. That accomplishes 1 and 4 at least in the short term. Then let your lawyer finish up the rest for you. I don't know all of the details, but I think these are the things you need to focus on right now. And in some ways you are in a very fortunate position. When my ex decided to end our relationship, she had given it a little more forethought than I had. She ended up with the house, the car, the kids, the new furniture, everything. Got it all before I came out of the "reconciliatory" phase of denial. My lawyer got me a better deal on the financial settlement to compensate, but had it not been for her experience in these sorts of things I would have been seriously screwed. So I advise you to stop negotiating directly. Talk to your lawyer.<BR>

nonplused- your right, I guess I should avoid the confrontation. I know she hasen`t put a pencil to how much it will cost her to live, and she isn`t even considdering having to pay child support. i guess she should hear that from the lawyer. What about her part of the debt? How does he get her to help pay those bills? I know she hasn`t even considered that either.I guess I wait until she moves out to call the lawywe and get things started. But what about the next month or so where she says she will not contribute to the finances. Something has to not get paid or we don`t eat.<BR>Wonder, the thing that is the most puzzling is up until several moths ago , right after this all started, she was a very caring and concerned mother. She didn`t want to go anywhere without the kids. Always bought them special things, took them everywhere. Now all she is into is herself, and how she looks and her job. How do you figure this one out. Her friend that she runs with was over to our house over the weeekend and i got about 20 minutes to talk to her alone. i asked her if she noticed any change in my wife lately. She said she seemed really stressed and tense lately. I told her I was concerned for her health and since she was her close friend did she notice. She said she told my wife she thought she was going through a change of life. I didn`t say anything but oh, really. I guess I`m not the only one that thinks that. She also told my wife that she should see a dr.

In most states and provinces both marital assets and marital debts are split 50/50. So lets say you have $50,000 equity in the house, $40,000 in debts, and it will cost $10,000 in realty fees to sell. Then you both walk away from the house with nothing.<P>In the event personal debt exceeds equity, often the debts are assigned. She takes this debt, you take that one. If that cannot be done, she might end up owing you a bunch of money and will have to make payments. This is always the worst possible way, high likely hood it'll take a baseball team of lawyers to get her to pay on time, so try to get a lump payment and have her borrow the money from a bank.<P>Everything of value gets thrown in to the asset calculation. House, cars, boat, trailer, RSP's, credit card balance, mortgage, line of credit, etc. It's all added up and split 50/50. If you have more assets than debt as a couple, then you negotiate which assets she is taking to make it even. If you have more debt, she owes you money or must assume some of the debt.<P>My experience is that it never works out even. I lost about $10,000 to 15,000 in unaccounted for appreciation in the house, taxes owed from the last year we were married, and by stupidly paying off her credit card and our line of credit before we actually separated. But as my friend said (he's going through the same thing; his wife and mine were close): "I would gladly pay $10,000 just to get this thing done in a civilized manner and get it over with."<P>Please check out the site www.divorceinfo.com It is packed full of useful advice relevant to the USA.<BR>

Confused........<P> I to am really picky on how I look. But that does not mean I just up and forget about my kids. Maybe she in away is like me. Feeling through all these years she has taken care of everyone and she got left in the dust. Thats how I feel. Like I was never really a wife. I think in time that gets to us women. Especially when the kids get older and they don't need us quite as much as when they were babies. See when we have childeren think about it we get pushed aside by the spouses. We quit doing things as a couple because one is most of the time left home to watch them when the other does there thing. Such as work ,erands etc.Do you get what I am trying to say here. Yes she could also be going through her change which in a womans eyes makes them feel and seem older. Although it does not excuse her pushing her kids aside. Not in my eyes that is. Sure there are days right now with them off in the summer I could literally sit and scream. But does not mean I love them any less. Well don't know it this helps ya at all. But maybe see more from a womans poiint of view. Huggs All