Here's my story. Our marriage was fine for about four years. Then we had a child. Then we had another one 13 months after that. My wife totally shut down to me after that. We rarely had sex. She would snap at me and get mad for basically no reason. I tried really hard to support her. She gained quite a bit of weight from the pregnancy, but I assured her that I was okay with it. Which was a bit of a change from me because I greatly prefer thin women. Anyway, our physical relationship was as close to non-existant as it gets. For 3 1/2 years we had sex less than an average of once a month. I have a real problem with self-confidence, so this hurt me. Plus, we weren't really getting along all that well. She was very mother-like to me. She berated me when I was going to see my friends (which wasn't often). She wanted to know places, dates, times, etc. whenever I went anywhere. I also don't communicate my feelings well, although I would say things from time-to-time. Anyway, the situation worsened. Eventually, I got to the point where I spoke up and told her some things that were bothering me. Things got a little better. I was also going through some heavy stresses external to my family life. A few months after that talk we separated for the first time. I told her I didn't love her anymore. I was only gone a short time and came back. Partially because the person I was living with wanted me out. I also had to make sure that my feelings were what they were and not stress related. We eventually separated again, which is where I am. I felt like we got to the point where we were just room mates and not even friends. There are other incidents involved, but I am already making this a long post.<P>Now, here's where I go wrong. All this time I had developed a fairly good relationship with a female friend. The relationship grew to much more than that. When I separated the second time it became a full-blown relationship. I have to say at this point that my female friend is also married, but not separated. So, my wife finally got me to admit some things and things got ugly. I eventually stopped seeing this person, although I do talk to her on occasion. <P>Well, after my wife discovered this, she took the opportunity to dig through all my possessions and read all my email files. She discovered a fairly large collection of adult materials that I had accumulated over about 3 1/2 years. She also discovered emails I sent to an ex-girlfriend that were sexual in nature. I had never done anything with this person. It is kind of the nature of our relationship. My wife was very hurt to find this stuff out. She would not have had an issue with the adult materials if she knew about them.<P>Now, we are a couple months past the ugliness. I have apologized several times for not communicating and hurting her. She wants to reconcile, but she will not acknowledge that she had any fault in the situation. I have lost my feelings for her, but I have not filed for divorce yet. I am trying to give it every chance I can, but I'm not willing to go to counseling if I'm not wanting to actually work things out. I've went to counseling by myself and have talked through a number of these things, and the counselor acknowledged that my wife has some fault in this. Is this pointless to keep trying and apologizing if she keeps viewing all of this as my fault? I don't see her as the person I once saw her as. I don't know if I should try dating her or what. <P>BTW, my female friend is going through counseling as well to try and work through the issues that she and her husband have. She had plenty of issues before we even got involved as well.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Luv_to_swim:<BR><B>She wants to reconcile, but she will not acknowledge that she had any fault in the situation. I have lost my feelings for her, but I have not filed for divorce yet. I am trying to give it every chance I can, but I'm not willing to go to counseling if I'm not wanting to actually work things out. I've went to counseling by myself and have talked through a number of these things, and the counselor acknowledged that my wife has some fault in this. Is this pointless to keep trying and apologizing if she keeps viewing all of this as my fault? I don't see her as the person I once saw her as. I don't know if I should try dating her or what.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I wonder how important it is to admit fault, at least at first? It seems to me that a willingness to reconcile and work things out is more important, since that willingness implies forgiveness, and what difference does it make which side of the ledger blame gets placed on if the slate is going to be wiped clean anyway? Of course, if real progress in the relationship is going to happen, the contributing factors are probably going to have to be ferretted out eventually. But there again, assigning blame is just going to get in the way.<P>I suspect that dropping the admission-of-fault issue would be good for <I>you</I>, by the way, because it is clear that your own inclination to minimize personal responsibility is still quite strong.<P>And frankly, I'm less concerned about how you view your wife, or how she views you, than I am about how you view yourself. What kind of person do you <I>want</I> to be?<BR>

Welcome Luv_to_swim,<P>First, it's good you still want to try in your marriage. I think Gnome made a lot of good points. <P>Also, I'm wondering, you may be totally different than my soon to be ex (stbx) but every time he said sorry, he put a but on the end. It was always sorry but you did this, sorry but what about this, so I am wondering if that is your sorry. Are you saying to her "Sorry but you have to take responsibility too". Sorry's should never have a but in it. I think a person needs to take responsibility for their own actions. Even though she contributed in the mess your marriage is in now. You must take responsibility fully for the affairs you are having. No one made you have those affairs. Instead of working on your marriage and trying to get counseling or even leaving if nothing else worked, you went out and had an affair and also communicated with ex's and others instead of trying to fix your marriage. <P>You say she got mean after your two children were born. She'd snap at you for virtually no reason. Maybe she she shouldn't snap and she probably lacked communication in telling you the things she needed, or maybe she did tell you why and you dismissed her feelings. I have to ask this. Two babies are so hard to raise. Did you help her with housework? Did you help her with the children? Did you help her clean the dishes after dinner? Did you help her with bathing the children? You may have done all these things. There are so many things none of us know about your relationship. So I am just asking. If you didn't then stress and tension does seem to build up when there is a feeling of no partnership in the marriage.<P>Also, one thing that really stuck in my mind is your comment which said something like "while all this is going on, I was becoming great friends with another woman". I think that pretty much justified her snooping and wondering where you were all the time. You were putting another woman's relationship over your marriage. Also this would pretty much make me a little resentful and snappy. You said she went through your computer and found old emails to your ex that were sexual in nature and sexual materials. Well I think her fears were pretty validated. <P>If you leave her and you go find someone else. You are going to have many problems in a new relationship. Probably some of the exact same problems as you did in the first one. My suggestion would be to read all the things on this site. Find out what you can do to save the marriage you now have. Take responsibility for your actions. Have your wife come on here too and go through the steps Dr. Harley recommended. You have hurt her deeply. Some day after you are in counseling I am sure she will acknowledge all the things she did or didn't do in the marriage, but for now you need to just acknowledge all the mistakes you did and make yourself a better husband. All the rest will follow.<P>Here's a copy of someone else's post that gives good information in here. It's originally posted by NSR/Jim to another new person. Click all the links on and read them. Good luck,<P>ANNA<P><BR> There is a post of general welcome I wish to share with you... <P>It has a lot of quick links to many of the <B>most</B> important MB sites...<BR>Click here ==> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000553.html" TARGET=_blank>General Welcome for All New Builders(Newbies)</A><P><B>About your question</B>...<BR>...check out <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000557.html" TARGET=_blank>Acronyms, Smilies, UBB Codes</A>.<BR>NSR/Jim<p>[This message has been edited by Anna2000 (edited September 25, 2001).]

Anna,<P>Fantastic post!!!<P>LTS, <P>Your wife helped you create the climate where the A's took place, but you made the ultimate choice in pursuing these women, or let them pursue you, meeting them, having sex with them. <P>You made the choice not to share the pornography with her...you admit she wopuldn't be bothered by it is she had known it was there. So why did you hide it? Hey I am really curious about this, cos my H did that too, knowing full well that if he had shared his collection - by that I mean if he had allowed me to know of its existence, I wouldn't have been so upset about it.<P>If you do indeed want your marriage to work, the blame on the part of one partner has to stop...now.<P>Since you are here, I'm talking to you, if your wife was there i'd do the same...stop blaming, read, read read here and think about NOW and the future. What is done is done, and there is no way you can change that....but you can make a better future. It has to begin with one of you.<P>love and light,<P>Jacky

I did quite a bit of housework. She would generally cook most of the time, but I would do the dishes. I thought I was quite helpful with the kids. I never had a problem with changing a dirty diaper, bathing, feeding, burping, etc. <P>The communication was a big break down. I feel like I have accepted my responsibility for the problems. She doesn't seem to think any of it is her fault. She thinks my personality changed, not hers. <P>As far as the other woman goes, there was only one, I rarely saw her outside of work hours. So, it didn't take away from home time.<P>I think you all have great ideas about how to work on things once you determine you want to work on things. I'm not even sure I like her any more at this point. So, I am trying to figure out where to go from there.<P>See, I have emotional problems the way it is. My mother was rather mean to me growing up and totally destroyed my self-esteem and confidence. When my wife and I started battling, she literally turned into my mother. She attacked me on levels that she knew would hurt me. I fell off a ladder onto a concrete floor the summer of 2000, and she didn't even ask me if I was alright. In the early part of this year, I got a pinched nerve in my shoulder. I left work in tremendous pain. Not only did she not really seem concerned, she didn't offer to come pick me up at work or take me to the doctor. These things really hurt me and contributed to me seeking more from my female friend.<P>Yes, I know there is no excuse for the "A", but I want to stress that I don't prowl around looking for this. As late as winter 1999, when I started to become really unhappy, I shunned a possible one.

Luv to swim,<P>Maybe there's only one physical affair, but you also had emotional affairs. Like with the ex. Continuing to communicate with your exgirlfriend by sending her ex emails and so forth was an emotional affair. Emotional affairs are wrong also.<P>I'm sorry to hear about the way she treated you when you were hurt. I wonder if she felt hurt by you and the affairs that even if she cared, she didn't show it because of this. I'm also sorry to hear about the low self esteem due to childhood problems. Just remember though, others can't give you your self esteem, including your ex, you have to find ways of giving yourself the self esteem you need. It sounds like you still have a lot of work to do with feeling good about yourself and feeling happy about who you are.<P>It sounds like also because you've accepted your responsibility for your actions, all of a sudden you want her to see the same light you did at the same time you did. It doesn't happen that way unfortunately. <P>I hope you decide you want to try with this marriage instead of getting involved in another relationship. Like I said before the problems will just follow you from marriage to marriage, no matter who you are with, if you don't fix them. <P>It sounds like you still have love for her deep down or this wouldn't be an issue. You would just go on with your life and find someone else. I think if you do try, some day through counseling perhaps she will see the things she can change to better herself also.<P>Once again good luck,<P>ANNA<P>