wonder, your computer must be as slow as mine! Have to work all weekend, so it should be pretty quiet around the house.I have another session next week, This time I think it will be more involved.<BR>

Confused..........<P> My computer not slow just hate takes so long to scroll down to read the next post LOL . Guess not patient enough. I have been known not to have any patience and I do know that is true. Hope your weekend going better then mine. Ya know he wants to take kids somewhere on his next vacation. I dread driving in a car for 5 hours in silence. Its going to kill me but will do for the kids. I hate to say it but not looking forward to being with him that long at all. We don't talk or have conversations here at home. Should be great time in the car. Guess just have to pretend for the kids. Not any different do it here at home everyday. Tell ya bet get alot of reading done though. Take care all.

since your going on the vacation anyway, try to put your problems away for a few days and have a good time for yourself and your kids. Maybe a change of secenery will make you feel a little better. I`ll bet your kids are excited about the trip.<BR> We live close to the beach. I found out my wife went to the beach the other night after work instead of coming home right away. She had been doing this quite often lately. I asked her about it. She said she takes a magazine and sits on the beach by herself, that she thinks alot there by herself. She always has liked the beach. I want to believe her that she has been byherself.2 things that bither me, one is that I hope there is not a someone else with her, the other is she would rather be byherself thn at home with her family. I guess I need to worry about nyself instead of her., but my happiness revolved around her happiness so long I don`t really know what makes me happy. It`s really hard to explain.<p>[This message has been edited by confused58 (edited July 12, 1999).]

Confused.......<P> No I know exactly how you feel. Not knowing anymore what can make you happy. Believe me have been there for way to long. I will try on this trip but again am not even looking forward to sitting in a car for 5 hours with nothing to talk about. Will take a book and get some reading done instead. Well I wish I had a beach to go and sit and think. That sounds really nice. Guess hard for you to understand why women need alone time to think. You say she would rather be there then with the family. Well hon I have days like that too. But I don't get away hardly ever like that. Thats why I run my dog thats my way out for thinking. You do have to start thinking about yourself for sure. I guess another thing about this trip that really bothers me is he never plans any of this stuff. Never has its always me. He has never surprised me with anything. Guess through the years that has hurt also. I mean from the motel reservations etc its always me. Then he will comment well I don't know anything you do all that. Nice huh? Hes just not for me. The other morning I got up late because I did not sleep well night before. He was up with the youngest and he could have easily taken care of my kids breakfast etc. But nope he did not do it. So guess who did. I made a comment but it never sinks in. Sorry going on today just things I see more and more everyday. I think what difference being alone I do everything anyways. Take care and let me know how your doing.

Wonder, Do the hints come across to your husband as valid complaints or nagging? I have finally started listening to my W after many years of ignoring her complaining and it seems to have made a difference. I wasn't listening not b/c I didn't care, I just didn't understand what or how badly she wanted these things. On the other hand, she still has trouble recognizing some of the behaviours I am not happy with. The responsibility for the message being understood lies with the sender. This is something I'm still trying to get a handle on. All this in no way relieves her from the responsibility for the choices she's made. Poor communication is not a reason for anything other than an attempt to improve that area. <BR>Mike

Mike.........<BR> <BR> No I don't feel my complaints sound like nagging at all. Why should I have to say anything all the time. He knows kids have to eat. Its not that damn hard to get a bowl of ceral. I did say after that though to youngest. You know don't have to wait till Mom gets up to get you breakfast. I don't think that was nagging at all. Coarse then hubby said well he never said anything. Well hubby did not ask him either. I always ask when he wants breakfast. He just sees all things I say are negative. So thats why keep my mouth shut. Another thing hes always been bad at is assuming stuff. Without asking or trying. Like I told him tonight I called around for hotel rates. Said some were really high. He said well if think going to get one for 79.00 your wrong. Geez give me a break does he no all the hotel rates or what? He has always been like that. Or no they won't go out and never even asks. After he said that about the hotel I almost said there you go assuming without asking again. But did not want a fight so kept quite. Its so hard anymore I am so tired :-( Tommorrow another day I guess. Does this make any sense to you Mike on your questions to me? Take care all.

some of the things my wife has been doing are really getting me to wonder if there is someone else. It is something that i have really been thinking about a lot lately. I don`t want to , but it is always there. I want to believe that there is noone else. How do you refocus your thoughts?

Wonder, Do you work f/t or p/t? Why I ask is I wonder how you divide up what you do and what he does? I have always worked and my income alone provided for the family, any money my wife earned at p/t jobs was "hers" to do with as she pleased. My W has always taken care of kids, house, food, money, bills, travel arrangements, etc and she laways did a great job. I took care of the "man" things. I'm not saying this was right it was just how things started out and we never talked about changing things. My philosophy on what my Wdid was always," do whatever you want; school, work, volunteer, just do it well." After she completed school and was looking for a f/t job we briefly talked about dividing the work more equitably, but before we could change anything she got involved with someone else..... Anyways, for six months I did everything for the kids, paid for everything, took care of all the details, so now I have a different outlook. She wanted me to do the things I hadn't been doing, planning dinner, housework, dealing with childcare, the little things I dislike. But, if it makes her happy I'll do it. (she doesn't let me do laundry anymore) Maybe your husband has the "conventional" view of I work and you take care of the home. I used to and I don't think I was a caveman.....As for cooking, I don't cook most things as "tasty" as mom. So, I'll ask the kids if they're hungry, "no". Five minutes later when mom asks they'll say they're starving. BTW how old are your kids? Mine are 9 and 11.<BR>Mike <p>[This message has been edited by hoping4thebest (edited July 13, 1999).]

Confused,<P>That's a tough one but I will see if I can help based on my own experience so far.<P>My ex did a lot of weird things and had a lot of things she couldn't/wouldn't explain. I thought it possible she had someone else. My friends thought it was probable. Ladies that I would talk to were positive. <P>There was and is more and more mounting evidence all the time that that was the case. I think when I discovered that she had redirected her cell phone statements to her parent's address is when I more or less became convinced. To explain why that is significant, I asked myself these questions: Why in the heck would she do that? Are they paying it for her all of a sudden? The charges are deducted straight off of her Visa account. If she has nothing to hide, then why doesn't she want me seeing the statement?<P>Anyway, I heard almost al the same things as you, except my ex wanted to keep the kids and the house, which she did because we settled before I was willing to face the reality of what was going on. Here are the things I know at this point:<P>I knew she was lying, just not about what. I knew she was acting irrationally, just not why. I knew she was doing some despicable things to our family and my two little girls. That didn't make sense. I knew she wouldn't be reasoned with, yet I assumed she was being rational. I knew she was being unfair about the asset split, yet I believed somehow it must be my fault. (Mostly because she said so.)<P>I still cannot to this day believe I accepted my ex's accusations and terms without going by my hunch that something was up. But I did and that was my mistake. I should have locked the b*4ch out and made her fight for primary care of the kids. But I believed her stories. That's my loss based on my mistake.<P>In the end, one cannot change or control what another person might want to do. I can only take responsibility for how I react. I must look to myself to see what I did wrong, and what I could have done differently. I could at no point change what my ex was doing or why. I don't even know why. But there is a lot I could have done differently.<P>In the end, your STBX will never admit anything to you unless you catch her red handed. Mine never did and I know at least 4 other people who were definitely dumped for someone else and the cheater never admitted it. In 2 cases the cheater was caught red handed and still blamed the whole thing on everybody else. And I would advise against that because she will come out swinging at the "unjustness" of your "snooping" and "invading her privacy". Besides, maybe there is nothing. (OK, I'm trying to be nice. Nevertheless, the possibility exists.)<P>You have to ask yourself one question: What would your STBX have to gain by telling you anything? If she isn't going to gain anything, she won't say it. If she is going to lose something, she will lie.<P>In the end, you cannot stop your STBX from seeing someone else if she chooses. So it is irrelevant. What you can do is refuse to let her walk all over you on the way out. Do not agree to anything to anything she demands in a fit of emotions. It will be hard and it will take patients. Let your lawyer do the talking.<P>You do not know how lucky you are to have primary care of the kids. Don't blow that before it's final. If I could do it over, I would have fought tooth and nail for that. Six months from now you will see that nothing else matters. Whether there was someone else or not will just be a side issue in the whole yucky mess. One more thing to look back on and say "what was I thinking?" I actually laugh about it with my friends now.<BR>

nonplused- I want to believ that there is no one else ,but who knows. When I had my counceling session I was told to try to avoid conflict and work on changing myself. This is the week she was to stop contributing to finances and start saving for her own place. I`m going to really have to think about how to approach this without starting a conflict. I haven`t really been asking her about her whereabouts lately. Only once this past week and she said she was by herself. I never caught her lying, only not telling all the facts. Although I`ve never had any proof that there was anyone else. I guess the best thing to do is try to stay busy and not think about it but keep my eyes and ears wide open.

Confused........<P> I agree with Nonpulsed. She would never admitt to you I am sure that she is seeing someone else. Unless she is caught I am with him she will never admitt it. Like he said most don't unless they get caught. And even then the blame might go else where. I hope not making you feel bad agreeing with him just guess giving my point of veiw being a woman and all. But then again males would not admitt either don't think. I think your right trying not to think about all and think about yourself. Thats what I try to do. Seems lately though what ever I say is wrong. Can't even joke so just keep quite. Lately seems been doing so much around here on my own I think yup what would be the difference if he were gone. I just don't know someday the answer will be right there when its the right time for me. Well keep me informed Confused and lets keep our hopes up one day be our turn for that real happiness again. Huggs all

I went to my older daughter`s softball games the past 2 nights with my youngest daughter. I actually enjoyed the games. It took my mind off of all the other things. During last night`s game my wife showed up and we talked about uor days. She told me where she was and what she had been doing. I didn`t expect her to show up. It was a pleasant surprise for me. I found that keeping busy will keep my mind off of all this other thoughts.

Confused.......<P> Yes keeping busy does wonders for the mind. Not worrying all the time. Or thinking about out troubles etc. Wish I could keep busy alot more. Or if I could do my exercising 24 hours a day that would really save me from thinking. But I know thats impossible to do that 24 hours a day. My son played ball for the summer to. I really enjoyed that also. Fact his championship game is tonight. So I know that will get me out of the house for most of the night. Lately been getting headaches from the tension and stress. I hate them too. Fact been so stressed lost a couple pounds last couple days. But when I am so stressed and not happy I don't eat. I don't weigh alot as it is. But oh well thats one thing I can control in my life is when I want to eat or don't want to. Hang in there confused glad you both talked last night. Does she seem more at ease talking to you you think? Keep in touch.

actually, wonder, she did seem alot more at ease. Tonight even more. we talked for a while afet we both got home from work. Maybe part of it is me and the different attitude I have. But it was nice to talk to her again and laugh about regular things and not talk about us. maybe it a start or just another hill on this rollercoster ride.My daughter is in allstars and has another game tomorrow, that I hope to go to.

Confused...........<P> Yes sometimes our attitude makes things seem or feel different. I am glad your daughter is in the all stars. My son played for championship last night but they got runner up. They lost by one. They also told them who was in there all stars and it should have been my son. He was so upset. He lost by one vote. The one thing that hurts most is the kid that beat him out did not play as well as my son did all year. That really killed him. If I could take away his pain I would. I know what hes feeling with that pain. His of coarse is a different kind but I still know what pain feels. I feel it everyday. The sad thing about it is he probably had the best if not second best batting record all year. But whats done is done. I cannot protect him from pain in his life but God knows I would if I could. I know because cannot protect myself from hurting anymore either. I just try one day at a time knowing someday something or someone will get me there. Keep me informed please.

Confused,<P>A few comments, I think mostly just putting things that others have already said a slightly different way.<P>The first is that we do not know whether or not your (soon to be ex) wife is seeing someone. We know that we do not know because you do not know. I would suggest that if you do not know, give her the benefit of the doubt. There is absolutely no use being wrong if she doesn't; whereas if you assume no and she does it will make very little difference as long as you stick to what's equitable in terms of your arrangement over the separation. In time, you may come to understand one way or another. Even if you don't, you will come to accept that you don't need to "know" what actually happened.<P>I suggest that you stick to the matter at hand. Everything else is irrelevant. You know what she wants to do because she has told you. I really don't believe you need to know anything more than that.<P>I would also suggest that it will be helpful for you to begin looking at this as a long term situation. I am not going to suggest I know how long, but based on the cases I have experienced so far there is no way it will be less than one year. She is being friendly and sociable at baseball games. That's nice. My ex has been that way at everything from my daughter's preschool wrap up concert to my company Christmas party. This was not an indication that she was in any way doubting her decision or that there was any changes in the works. I believe it is two things. Number one is if she acts great in front of others, then people will assume it must have been me that somehow made all this happen and pulled the plug. I have even heard fairly widespread rumors that I got the punt because I was having an affair and wouldn't stop. (As far from the truth as it gets.) Number two is because deep down, whether she can admit it or not, she misses the contact we once had and naturally falls in to old communication patterns. Believe me, it means nothing. Enjoy it at the time, but don't get caught up in believing it signals the end of the "problems". Everything remains as it is until she tells you differently.<P>Now that it has gone this far, I do not believe you can reconcile without an extensive separation. I believe it will be at least 6 months before you can even start "dating" again. And the likelihood is, at some point she will hint that she maybe wants to come back. At that point the question will be whether or not you think she is serious, and whether you still want her back. Until then I think that there isn't anything left you can do.<P>On the other hand, look at it this way. It is going to be a tough few months. But 2 years from now, everything will work out for the better. It's just a question of what that "better" might look like, which of course is impossible to tell. "It is all very unpredictable, especially the future." (The past, it turn out, is almost as unpredictable. Every time it comes back, it comes back a different way.)<BR>

nonplused- I do have to give her the benifit, and not buy into her seeing someone else. After I thought about it I think she wold have to have a lot more unexplained gaps in her time. I`ve checked cell phone numbers, redial on the phone and haven`t found a clue. I`m to the point now, that that`s not the matter at hand anymore. Until I find solid proof, I`m not going to bother with it anymore. She has been acting more socialable to me the past several days. I don`t know why, but I`ve learned not to overreact to it. I`m just going to sit back and watch.We did have a finincial discussion last night and she said you just don`t want me to do what I had planned on doing. Which ment I don`t want her to move out. I didn`t comment on that. She also said her finances were tight this month also and afer she has a chance to look at them she may contribute to the household finances. This is a switch from what she was planning to do. I didn`t react to that comment either.It`s really hard to tell if she is having a change of heart or not. But I won`t ask her or bring it up. I`ll just sit back and watch for a while and see what happens and work on my changes. She did suggest I file for bankruptcy and that would take care of all our bills. I refused to do that and told her she could gladly persue that herself. Which I know she won`t.

my wife ripped my heart out yesterday. She told me she had an affair. i asked her 4 months ago and she said no. She said it was after that. I asked if she slept with him, she said what do you do in an affair. I asked if she was still involved with him she said all men were A**holes. and wouldn`t talk about it anymore. She said it was someone she knew for several years and she went out with him and it just happened. She said she has needs. I said so do I. But she said she wants no part of me. I asked her this morning again if she was still involved with him and she won`t answer the question. I am so devestated I can`t even think straight. I don`t have a clue who it is.How do I get through this?????? <p>[This message has been edited by confused58 (edited July 19, 1999).]

confused,<BR>Man that's terrible. yes it's gonna hurt & for a while.<BR>Understand a lot of things she is going to say & do are to try & justify what she is doing. The thing you have to remember is don't react to her tauntings. Keep a cool head. Just because she says she doesn't love you, doesn't mean much at this point. Again, it's the justification. Get angry, scream & yell & you give her the justification. Get the book, Surviving An Affair by Dr Harley <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html</A> <P>Keep strong & it's okay to feel the intense pain, confusion, and anger you may be having right now or will have. Just don't do anyhting until you have had some time time think it through.<P>Another good book I highly recommend is Divorce Busting by Michele Weiner-Davis <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0671797255/qid%3D932112541/002-4441314-8739629" TARGET=_blank>http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0671797255/qid%3D932112541/002-4441314-8739629</A> . Don't have to be ready for divorce to get plenty of good info from it.<P>nonplused,<BR>Yes he may come to understand one way or the other, but doesn't mean he necessarily "just accept" that he doesn't need to know what happened. This is a very individual decision.<P>"Everything remains as it is until she tells you differently." This is probably what has been the problem. They weren't talking or if they were they weren't hearing each other. She may feel as if she was screaming at the top of her lungs there was problems, but in actuallity she simply said, "let's go out" once or twice. He needs to look at what he was doing wrong in the relationship & do something to fix it.<P>Just how in the world is a separation going to help them reconcile? They both need to start communicating. If she won't do it, then he has to do it on his own.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html</A>

Yikes!<P>This is an unfortunate turn of events.<P>I'm not sure exactly how to get through the emotional impact of this revelation. I think maybe if you really look deep in to yourself you might see that you have been somewhat suspicious for some time, so maybe there is also some emotional preparation. Anyway, I think the best thing to do is the tried an true method everyone has been using for thousands of years:<P>GO BESERK.<P>However, I would suggest doing this on your own or with a good friend. Do not do it in front of your wife if you can help it. If you just can't, well, she probably deserves it and more. It's probably not going to make any difference any way. Now, once that is out of the way, I would suggest that from now on, at all times, BE A GENTLEMAN. It might help to start to think of her as no longer your wife. It will certainly help for you to know that you can not do anything for her until she wants your help. She is going through an amazing amount of guilt, grief, and cognitive dissidence right now. Most of the problems she sees with the relationship and how she feels for you are based not on actual problems with the relationship, but because she has to justify in her own mind how this happened. There is a process here she has to deal with on her own. The best you can do is be supportive, understanding, and try to approach no more than she wishes.<P>The important thing to remember is that this is not your problem. It's hers. She is and wants to be a big girl, and therefore she must deal with it on her own until she gets herself sorted out. Then she may come to you ready to talk. Or she may not. Either way it's not your problem and you are doing her a disservice if you attempt to make it your problem.<P>I think looking back on when it happened to me, I can see that I was not all perfect in the relationship either, and that I did things that probably contributed. I was instructed by my counselor to focus on myself and just "let her go." So I did some counseling for my own things (Dr. Harley calls them love-busters, but every counselor seems to have a different strategy. It's just different ways of looking at the same sort of thing.)<P>A final note, I'm just guessing here, but based on some experience I have with this sort of thing, I would guess the affair started about 4 months before your relationship trouble did. Please don't quote me. You will not find out either way for some time, if at all. You know now that there has been some lying going on here, so don't presume you know the end of it or even the beginning at this point. I think the more important issue is that it just doesn't matter that much. You need to focus on the children and an equitable agreement. Plus keeping your head and being a gentleman.<BR>