Hello,<P>I need help. My H spent the day here yesterday because my grandparents(in their 80's and don't know about our separation) came to visit for the day.<P>H and I and kids had a good day. After G-parents left, he stayed and cut the grass, I did all the trim work, we took some trash to the dump, went to McDonalds for ice cream and had a big conversation about our divorce.<P>The reason he didn't want to sign the agreement was because I put in the papers that he couldn't take the children in the presence of the OW or her child. He took this to mean that he couldn't take them to his place. I was a bit unsure as all this time he has been telling me the house was divided into 2 living spaces and he rented half.<P>Well, I had previously suspected that once their affair started that both spaces were opened up to make one large space. What I didn't know is the real extent of this arrangement. Apparently this house was given to the OW by her father and it was remodeled. She has to pay her dad back the cost of remodeling so she decided to take on a roomate. They originally said house is divided but it boils down to the fact that my H has his own Bedroom and fridge. They share a common dining room, family room, laundry room and there is only one bathroom in the house so they share that too.<P>In other words, they are romantically involved roomates.<P>The problem is that my H doesn't seem to understand the negative effect this living arrangement can have on the kids. I was ready to give up fighting to keep them away from OW and let them start regular visitation with thier Dad every other weekend but now I'm not sure again.<P>I have asked him again to move and he refuses. He must have gotten a good deal on rent since he has no privacy. It infuriates me to think he put himself in this position to start with. Now he wants to drag the kids into it too.<P>I want my kids to see their Dad. Not only do they love and need him to be in their lives, I need the break sometimes. I will be a much better person, parent and employee if I get a break every once in a while. <P>I just don't know what to do. My lawyer says the courts require the children to be in a proper moral environment. He says that H can't be "shacked up" with OW. Well, that pretty much describes the situation except he has his own bedroom. I just don't know what to do.<P>I feel like I'm damaging my children and myself by not making H share in the responsibility of raising the kids and having solid visitation. For 6 months, I have accomodated his every need. If we go to this schedule he will have kids every other weekend no matter what and if he has to work, it will be his problem to find childcare. He says he has not discussed this with OW yet. <P>He says OW is a good person and that he would trust our kids in her care. I think that her taking care of our kids would drive a wedge between my H and her because she would grow tired of having to sacrifice every other weekend to take care of them. I don't want to jeopardize(sp?) my children's mental health. What should I do? They already know about OW and the living arrangement. My H promises that he would never put them in a bad moral environment. <P>I still think he needs to move. Even if he continues to see her and we proceed with divorce, he needs to move out on his own until the divorce is final. Yes this would be more expensive and harder on him but do I really care??? Is it my problem??/<P>If I allow kids to start visitation, I have to find a way to go to a strong plan B. I need to eliminate contact myself. I keep allowing myself to get drawn to H (not physically) but we really are such good friends and I am so comfortable with him that I crave to be around him.<P>How do I stop these feelings? Where the *ell is Mike when I need him?????? Please someone tell me what to do. I feel like I'm going crazy.<P>If I agree to visitation, my H will sign the agreement which will assure that I keep the house, my savings account balance, and my pension/profit sharing balance. It is a good deal even though I'm assuming all debt, in the long run, I will come out ahead by not spliting my retirement nestegg.<P>I do not want to keep kids from their Dad. That could cause them mental problems too and I only want to do what is best for them. Any suggestions? Should we agree to a trial basis for 2 to 3 visits to see how things go? I suggested we see a family counselor to help sort this out? Is that a good idea? <P>As of right now, our children 5 & 10 do not know we are getting a divorce. They know we get along well and enjoy doing family things when he is here and they see him leave. If I agree to visitation, we will have to explain this to children first.<P>Please help!!!!!! I'm desparate and H needs to sign papers tomorrow. Lawyer is ready to have him served but has to have this arrangement to attach to papers.<P>Thanks in advance!!<P>Lynn<P>

okay..Where will the children be sleeping when they are with dad? Where will he be sleeping? <P>Why is he so concerned that the "family" doesn't know that he moved out that he is willing to come over and "play house" while they are there?? When the divorce is final they<BR>will know it was a sham..and will feel like you lied to them as well..and feel that you betrayed them..yes, you are trying to protect them..but for who?? you or him?? They have lived long lives and have had many struggle of their own so they don't need to be protected from the truth..and who knows you may find some answers from them and struggles they have had in their own marriage to help you deal better with this..and get to know them better..<P>You could ask that you go over to see the living arraignments before you allow the children to go over and stay the night..like I said before..ask where they will<BR>be sleeping, where he will be sleeping when he has them <BR>over night..I feel that would be a reasonable request..<BR>and if it is not acceptable then you should let him know..<P>but even after the divorce is final would he move back in with her?? would he consider that to be a morally bad enviroment?? what does he see is morally bad? and what do see as morally bad? <P>As far as will she be watching the kids if he's called into work..and if she's willing to take on that responsibility..<BR>thats between them..but you need to be informed because they are your children..where will they stay if she can not watch them or refuses to?? He needs to think of these things just as you have had to do..who will caring for your children when they are not w/ you or him?? and are they trustworthy??<BR>Things I am sure he has not even thought about..<P><BR>Why would you have to give up your pension/retirement, the house, your savings and assuming all debts?? Where is his responsibility in all this??? You should be able to keep the house since you have custody of the kids, you could fight for half his retirement and such..and he should get half the debt..Without signing any visitation agreement like that..<P>And I am sure that your children at least the oldest knows or at least suspects that you two are getting divorced or headed in that direction since dad doesn't live there anymore, even if dad comes over occassionally to visit..<P>Talk to you lawyer and ask him if he feels this is reasonable..ask him if he would agree to that if he were you..and see what he says..

Thanks<P>He says they he will sleep on the couch and they can sleep in his bed. He wanted to get bunk beds for them but says there is not room. Sounds to me like he continues to put his comfort ahead of theirs. He could move. He could move back with his parents(they have offered) He can move into my Mom's private basement for free. She has a large home and never goes downstairs at all. He just doesn't want to move. I'm sure OW helps take care of him and offers him companionship. He never liked to be alone.<P>I live in SC and my lawyer says that our retirement accounts are subject to equitable division. As I have over 5 times as much in mine as he does, I didn't want to even bring it up. He has no idea what my balance is and I want to get him to agree to keep our own before he goes to a lawyer who convinces him to fight me.<P>He says that visitation is the only thing he wants anyway. He doesn't care about the financial stuff. My lawyer advised that if we come to an agreement ourselves, it must be fair or the courts will throw it out. I'm asking him to pay about $2000 in debt but relieving him of $130,000 in debt on the house and car in exchange for the equity.<P>It is a fair deal as I'm keeping all house furnishings and yard/garden equipment. Replacing all that stuff I have to have to take care of this place would cost me a fortune.<BR>The house and land should increase in value so long-term I should be ok as long as I can maintain the property.<P>As for the kids, he says he doesn't know if thier relationship has a future or not. He is still very depressed and he admittedly doesn't know her very well. I figure that the stress of having to be a real parent on the weekends, not just a few minutes here and there, will place a big crack in their relationship. I don't want my children to become pawns here but the fact is that no matter what happens, they are the victims. The best I can do at this time is minimize the damage to thier emotional health. Their father is a good man and he loves them very much. I shouldn't allow them to suffer just because he isn't a good husband to me and doesn't love me anymore.<P>Thanks again.<P>Lynn<BR>

Lynn,<BR>This is a very tough subject. One that I myself went through a few years ago with OW1. With alot of soul searching I came to the conclusion that even though I didn't like what was happening it was unfair of me to keep my kids from their father because he chose to do something I didn't approve of. In the long run I was right. They enjoyed their time with their dad and didn't really seem disturbed by the fact that OW was living with him. <P>This is a fact of divorce. Its sad that little kids have to learn such tough lessons but they are adaptable. I felt awful, but then I relized part of the reason I felt so bad was I had lost more control over the situation. Even so I still swallowed my pride and let them go see their Dad. <P>Jill

If I had it to do over, I would have done everything I could legally to keep my H from exposing the kids to the OW for as long as possible. I thought it was important for them to see their father, but the outcome was that they have learned that he does not want to see them if they annoy the OW. They have learned that they are way down on his list of priorities. <P>If you live in a state where the courts care about the moral environment the kids are in, count yourself lucky. The courts here do not care at all. And just because the separation ageement says that the father can see the kids every other weekend doesn't mean he has to if it is inconvenient for him. The non-custodial parent is not RESPONSIBLE for having the kids every other weekend - it is merely optional for him. He can have them as little as he wants.

people pleaser,<P>On this matter I would say I'd definitely meet with a child psychologist and get advice from someone licensed in this field. When it comes to children and their emotional wellbeing, I think it's wise to get the best educated opinion possible.<P>My own feelings are to let the husband see them, have the lawyer reword the agreement to say something like the o/w can not be in the side of the house that he resides in after the hours of 10:00p.m. and before the hours of 7:00 a.m., when the children are there, and that also there is to be no sexual contact with your spouse and any woman, while the children are there. <P>I hear what Nellie's saying but I think it was better the children blamed him for not seeing them than some day the children blaming her for keeping them from their dad. <P>On the IRA, my husband had more IRA money than I did too. He always said that we would half this equally, because we set it up where his was more risky and mine was more conservative, and who ever made the most money, it wouldn't matter, we'd just combine it and split it equally. Well, before he filed for divorce, he closed his and spent it all. Then after he filed, he tried to get his hands on mine. He even called up my financial planner and told them to change the address to his address, of course they didn't do it, and he didn't get his hands on a dime of my IRA either.<P>Good luck with your decision.<P>ANNA<P>

Hi Lynn,<P>I posted a reply for you in GQII.<P>Love and light,<P>Jacky

Thanks Jacky,<P>I appreciate you answering on GQII because it was making me mad that I didn't get any responses over there. I know I shouldn't get my feelings hurt and that weekends are slow but I felt really desparate and alone.<P>Anyway, I really struggled with my decision about visitation. I never wanted to keep the kids from thier Dad. I know at first my reaction to him taking them around her was out of anger and jealosy(sp?) but I later had to rethink what I was doing to myself and the children by refusing to share the responsibility of raising the kids. I slowly was going crazy and was not being a very good parent because I never got a break. They need their father and he is really a good Dad. <P>I will also admit that I wouldn't mind if OW got a taste of reality too. For the 4 months my H has been renting a room from her, he has had kids with him there twice. Once was just son on fathers day and the last time was both of them. Neither my H or OW know what it is like to truly be responsible for my kids. Also she has a 5 yr old that my daughter can't stand. This should make for some interesting "family" time. When they were there before, it was like play time. They went fishing, played in the pool, etc. With wintertime coming, all those outdoor activities will not be available. Being cooped up in a 2 bedroom, 1 bath house with 3 kids should be a lot of fun!!! <P>I also told him if children show any signs of emotional or behavior problems or express that they don't want to go back over there, that we would seek professional counseling to resolve things. <P>Wanna know something strange? I put in the papers that I would claim both children for income tax purposes. He kept looking at that and not wanting to initial it. I asked if there was a problem. He said " I thought we would be filing our taxes together". I reminded him that there was no "us" anymore after the divorce. He said he was having a hard time understanding that concept. <P>I asked him again if this was what he wanted and he said no. I told him to stop it then. All he had to do was say the word.... No answer....total silence......<P>I hate mixed signals.<P>Also, I tried to avoid his hug this AM. He came over to me and hugged me anyway. I told him that he would have to stop doing that too. He said he wouldn't stop until I told him too. CONFUSION, CONFUSION!!! Why is he making this so hard on me? I'm giving him what he wants.....<P>Help me!!!!<P><BR>

((((((((((((((Lynn))))))))))))))))<P>I KNOW!!! I hate the mixed signals, too. Your H is not facing reality, with that tax thing. Wow, talk about a fog!<P>I said to my H the day we left SA "You know, it doesn't have to be this way." Cos he was being all sad, hugging me, etc....silence. I said to him on the phone recently "Do you really want to do this?" Silence...I asked him to answer it three times and he couldn't give me a Yes or No. <P>Then I told him I want to buy a house and I need money (we have a lot tied up in shares) He says, so you want me to help you get a loan?" I said no, that I wanted to sell shares so I could buy a house. He is like STUNNED....well he has been giving me the move on messages so I am. <P>What does he expect me to do? Why should I put myself into debt because he wants to split up? No, I want the money, and I wanted to make absolutely clear what I had in mind, so he can see the reality of this, but like your H, he waffled. <P>UUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!! <P>Sometimes I think this MB stuff is a load of crap...I have said it before. Sometimes I just feel like saying to my H "Get lost!!! If you think you can have all your women and treat me like this and I will just sit around and be your doormat, you have another thing coming..." Cos I am sure that is what he expects anyway. It seems to me that Plan A is just prolonging the inevitable for me, and i am getting sick of it.<P>Yes, for those reading, I am still in Plan A, much to my disgust. I need to do a few things for myself before i go into Plan B. They say you shouldn't go into Plan B without being sure you have done everything...well, I am not sure. I did something today, which I don't feel like sharing...no response yet, but it is one thing I hadn't done, you know?<P>Had to do it. Also, I think it's best if I don't alienate him before working out finances.<P>Lynn, I am sorry, I have just vented on your thread, and probably have been no help at all.<P>

That's perfectly fine, Jacky.<P>You are getting to the place I was a month or so ago. This is not easy. Having support from fellow MB members makes this more bearable but not any easier. Too Bad!<P>I hate the idea of going to Plan B. Why? because I love spending time with my H. Why am I doing it? Because I hate saying goodbye to my H. He avoids coming around me because he doesn't like to see me upset. I've tried before to tell him that I can't help it. I do my best and never show any sadness until it is time for him to leave. <P>He simply will not leave without going through this goodbye ritual. I have to walk him to the door or the truck, talk for a minute, hug and he always tells me to "get some rest". What I need is my husband, not a good night's sleep..... Can't make him understand that and I'm tired of trying. I tried for 9 months to show him how much I cared.<P>It breaks my heart to see him allowing this to happen. All he has to do is move away from OW and I'll forgive him and we can rebuild our life together. He is scared. If he doesn't want a divorce but he doesn't want a marriage either. He wants me as a friend and companion with none of the responsibilities. He wants to see his kids but only when it is convienent for him. He wants to keep me as part of his life but limit my ability to have a happy life. <P>I wish I could understand. He is still clinically depressed but refuses to take medicine prescibed to him in March. He still has a 30 day supply. Only took the 2 week sample pack the Dr gave him and stopped. He refuses to go back to doctor and doesn't want to go to counseling either.<P>There is really nothing more I can do. I've tried everything. I've sacrified the last 9 months of my life trying to help him "lift the fog". <P>As much as I hate it, I have to get on with my life without him. Now if I could only convince my heart......<P>PP <P>

This is a very tough decision and I am sure I dont have all the info. One important thing is what kind of relationship he has with OW. Is the affair ongoing or on hold or called off? One of the first two I assume. What are his future plans with OW? If she is going to be a part of his life she will also become a part of your kids life despite what a visitation agreement says. If you are sure she is a temporary person it may be a good idea to keep her away from the kids, but if she is going to be around for awhile its probably not going to make a differnce. This is just my opinion on the OW part of your decision. Things like the actual sleeping arrangement and childcare and that sort of thing also should be considered.