I had counseling galore this past week, both with my face-to-face MC and with Steve Harvey. I'm posting this just to share something my MC said which is worth keeping in mind for all (or at least most) of us.<P>She asked what I did with the anger I felt over being excluded from the wedding last weekend, and the apparent contact with EA guy ( <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum34/HTML/004502.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum34/HTML/004502.html</A> ). I told her I did what I always do with anger- I write in my journal, I call friends and family, I vent here, I try to get it out of my system before I do anything. "I know that I make bad decisions when I'm angry, so I try not to make any," I told her.<P>"If we could just bottle that," she said, "we could make a mint."<P>I guess marriage counselors have to clean up after a lot of bad, angry decisions. I'm not telling this to you all to pat myself on the back- I had to clean up after a lot of bad, angry decisions before I learned that lesson- but to help anyone who's thinking "I want my marriage to work (or I want my divorce to be less painful), but s/he has pissed me off for the last time!" <p>[This message has been edited by dabigtrain (edited September 30, 2001).]

Hi DBT... yes, you do have a mature handle on your anger... I'm still workin' on mine. It's so frustrating, but I'm finding that without counseling, I get angrier more often. I'm not so angry with my spouse but it comes out with the kids... so I know it's still in there. I'm just withholding it and letting it out in very inappropriate times... So, thanks for your tips... one of my friends locks herself in her bathroom when something sets her off... I think that might work for me too, a nice hot soak to relax!<P>You are doing well... any change in your relationship with spouse? How are your daily interactions going? Sometimes I think spouses are living in the past and not in reality... the work/changes you've made now you will reap much later when the now is in the past... the only problem is that you'll have moved on by then. <P>Cheers!<BR>Nicole<P>------------------<BR><I>"You will deceive yourself into believing that if people, circumstances, and events had been different, your pain would not exist...Your pain is the concrete way in which you participate in the pain of humanity."</I> <BR>~ Henri Nouwen ~

Hi dabigtrain,<P>Yes the anger thing is such an issue, and like OvrCs, sometimes mine is inappropriately directed at the children...but not ranting about Daddy or anything, I just over react at times when they make a mess or something.<P>I, too would become more immediately angry at things in the past, and just say what I thought right away. This has been one of the big changes for me...I don't just mouth off anymore, though I would love to sometimes. I have become very careful in my talks with H, and I know he can't understand it, because he DOES expect me to fly off the deep end. But I don't do it because I know it will fuel his fire that i am so bad. Also I am taking the high road. So I come here and let fly sometimes.<P>For example, the other day he told me he was seeing some people from the Theatre group we attended...OW is part of this group, and I know this was his way of telling me he was still seeing her, so that later he can claim he TOLD me already. He did this before. I said, something about that was nice to keep in contact with them. DEAD silence over the phone line. He had tried to push a button, but I didn't react...though my heart WAS hammering, and I KNEW what he was trying to tell me, I shut my mouth. The silence made me think he was awaiting my outburst, something like "Why are you seeing those people when you KNOW she is there?" in an angry tone...well he didn't get it, and one day he may see my changes.<P>You are doing well DBT, keep it up!<P>OvrCs, did you get my "novel" in your email?<P>Love and light,<P>Jacky<P><BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>OvrCs, did you get my "novel" in your email?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>NO! I never received an email from you Jacky! Can you find it and resend it?<P>OvrCsMB@aol.com<P>Cheers!<P>ps - I can totally relate to the over-reaction to spills and messes and stuff. I just step outside myself during those upsets and think, what has become of you? Why is this such a big deal? But, it is ONE more thing that I have to do (clean up) that gets to me I guess... it's so unfair to the kids. I've learned to calm down and hand them the rag... then they say "What am I supposed to do...?" So, I teach them... and it becomes a positive experience... but I'm not 100% consistent on this yet.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OvrCs:<BR>I'm not so angry with my spouse but it comes out with the kids... so I know it's still in there. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Yes, I have to watch that one too. Kids can push your buttons too, without knowing it, and my daughter certainly can dig her heels in and be stubborn as a mule. Don't know where she gets that from. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>one of my friends locks herself in her bathroom when something sets her off... I think that might work for me too, a nice hot soak to relax!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Oooh, doesn't that sound nice. The only problem is I'm 6'3" and my old claw-foot tub is about 5'5" - not as relaxing as it should be.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>You are doing well... any change in your relationship with spouse? How are your daily interactions going? Sometimes I think spouses are living in the past and not in reality... the work/changes you've made now you will reap much later when the now is in the past... the only problem is that you'll have moved on by then. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>No change- we're in a holding pattern (which is probably OK- it's not yet getting better, but it's not getting any worse!). I actually just got back from a bike ride/picnic/Dairy Queen trip with my wife, the kids, and two of my daughter's friends. We have a good time together, but the wall is still up.<P>Sometimes I think I'm living in the past- I think to myself, anyone looking at us would see a happy family- anyone other than my wife, that is. But my wife is living somewhere other than realityville, some odd little town where a "family" doesn't necessarily include a "couple."

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nina too:<BR>The silence made me think he was awaiting my outburst, something like "Why are you seeing those people when you KNOW she is there?" in an angry tone...well he didn't get it, and one day he may see my changes.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Jacky, that is f&$^%in' brilliant. Good for you!<P>The high road might be harder to find, and the footing a little treacherous, but the view is a lot nicer.

DBT... I just re-read your profile, what an interesting mix a Theater Director AND computer geek? Are your right or left handed and how does your right and left brains work so well together? I can't believe your creative side lies down with your techie side? Kind of like lion and lamb sometimes, don'cha think?<P>Anyway, Jacky, I forgot to mention that I was so thrilled to read about your success! Even if it is small, you've changed and your changin' the dance! It's pretty cool.<P>DBT, anyway, you and your spouse will be co-parents for the rest of your life. So, you will do things together for the kid's sake, I'm finding that out myself... it's just what do you do for your own emotional needs?<P>Oh, you have a claw-bathtub? I wanted one of those... but they're only 5'5"? Being 5'10" myself, I'm not sure how comfy that would be... oh well. Have to re-think that plan...<P>Cheers!<BR>Nicole<P>------------------<BR><I>"You will deceive yourself into believing that if people, circumstances, and events had been different, your pain would not exist...Your pain is the concrete way in which you participate in the pain of humanity."</I> <BR>~ Henri Nouwen ~

LOL on your choice of phrasing there!!!! <P>Yes, that high road is tough. But you know what, even if he doesn't seem to notice, I know other people are (so if it obvious to them HE who knows me best of all must see something).<P>Friends who know me well are saying things like they can't believe how calm I am about it all...well I just say, what good does getting all tied up in knots do? And I think that those of us with children are literally FORCED to take the high road, because it is in the kids' best interests not to see a screaming, bitter parent when their lives have already been turned upside down.<P>Funny about that high road, the view is better because you are more rational in looking things over.<P>Love and light,<P>Jacky

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OvrCs:<BR>DBT... I just re-read your profile, what an interesting mix a Theater Director AND computer geek? Are your right or left handed and how does your right and left brains work so well together? I can't believe your creative side lies down with your techie side? Kind of like lion and lamb sometimes, don'cha think?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'm right-handed, and mostly "left-brained." It is a bit weird sometimes- but directing is a very analytical task, besides the creative side of it. And trouble-shooting computers is not necessarily methodical, either- sometimes you have to depend on instinct and insight to figure out what might be wrong... because the &$^% things just don't make sense!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Oh, you have a claw-bathtub? I wanted one of those... but they're only 5'5"? Being 5'10" myself, I'm not sure how comfy that would be... oh well. Have to re-think that plan... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I don't know if they're a standard size- maybe you could find a larger one. But I think people were just plain shorter in the old days....<P><BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>And I think that those of us with children are literally FORCED to take the high road, because it is in the kids' best interests not to see a screaming, bitter parent when their lives have already been turned upside down.<P>Funny about that high road, the view is better because you are more rational in looking things over.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Exactly...<P>

Well I could soak in the claw foot tub; I'm 5ft, and 1/2 inch! The half inch is SO important!!!<P>I always think theatre when I post t you DBT, cos you know my connections, and I really want to do something again soon. I miss it so bad.<P>Still, I agree with Nicole, it IS a strange mix, but you are right about the directing being very analytical; needs a flowchart approach, and all that.<P>Jacky

Dabigtrain,<P>Here's an anger test I thought you might enjoy.<BR> <A HREF="http://www.salon.com/health/feature/2000/03/22/anger_test/" TARGET=_blank>http://www.salon.com/health/feature/2000/03/22/anger_test/</A> <P>Everything you did was the right way to deal with anger.<P>Also here's another site about anger that's very good. This is more for children with anger but it has some interesting points.<BR> <A HREF="http://parentingtoolbox.com/hand/anger.html" TARGET=_blank>http://parentingtoolbox.com/hand/anger.html</A> <P>Here's something quoted from parenting tool box under Anger management for families part two of the web page. <P><B>Quote:<BR>Did you feel your anger physically? Headaches, stomach aches, cold flashes, hot flashes, dry<BR> mouth, tears, numbness, tingling fingers, are all symptoms of anger.</B><P>BTW, my stbx had most of these symptoms.<P>You are really getting it together.<P>Take care,<P>ANNA<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Anna2000:<BR>Everything you did was the right way to deal with anger.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>ooooh, I just <I>love</I> being affirmed!<P>The stuff from the "parenting tool box" is interesting too (but the site has too many pop-up ads!). And whenever I read something like "my stbx had most of these symptoms" and that list you copied, I shudder. How do people get so fouled up?

Dabigtrain,<P>Actually, the reason I went on these sites was because stbx recently told me he thought I was the one with an anger problem and I needed to seek help. My friends and family basically said "No way" but just to make sure I went on these sites and others. Everything I found on these sites only confirmed my theory that he always had an anger and control problem. On the anger test my personality usually was 3, 4 and 5. Although as far as the physical abuse, I kept that to myself for along time so that incident fell in the 2. His was 6 through 12, that's scarey, those are the worse.<P>Then on the Anger Management for Families, the symptoms they indicated were all part of anger. Oh wow, a lightbulb went off when I read this. He complained of all those symptoms and his symptoms appeared during stress and bouts of anger.<P>I think a lot of his anger was built up during his childhood. His problem is dealing with all the anger he built up for years and years. I know he had a lousey childhood, but people need to get over their childhood at some point. You know, one of his major anger symptom is blaming others. He blames his upbringing for most of his problems and now he blames me for his anger. Before I met him, he had a roommate he didn't get along with and he blamed him for his anger at that time. Just thinking about it, he's always had someone to blame.<P>Anyway, on the popups for the parenting toolbox site, I get absolutely no popups on this site. I wonder if my settings are different or if it's Norton Family Security that weeds these out?<P>Well, take care and goodluck with everything. You are doing really great!<P>ANNA<P><BR>