Hopefully it won't come to this but I must admit that I've been giving it some thought and I'm looking for input.<P>My child would be completely shocked if we announced a pending separation or divorce to him. We don't fight, berate one another, or anything that would provide him clues that there has been a problem. We are two very mature and caring people to one another at all times - even despite serious problems that we've been going through. The most he would have noticed would be some depression at times in one or the other of us.<P>Seems like this is a case where parents who have less to be proud of for their behavior would fare better. At least their children see it coming so to speak. <P>Again, in case it comes to this, any ideas? In this case, child is pre-teen and very mature.<P>

Krazy--<P>I am going through a similar situation in that, for the most part, our kids think we like each other. I just found out W had/is having sexual affair after trying to deal with the admitted emotional connection back in December.<P>Wish I could help, except to say that I appreciate your willingness to do what's best for your child. A most noble cause, to be sure.<P>Peace.<P>B4

"""In this case, child is pre-teen and very mature."""<P>Whether the parents argue or not, the child's world as he/she knows it will be destoyed. And not to flame you or anything but your childs maturity is really of no revalance here. Our pre-teen daughter is extremely mature and thought this would never happen to her. Since our initial announcement followed by the divorce we've ran into some behavioral issues as well as problems at school. The bad thing about a mature child is that they think that you expect them to act older and if unchecked they will not go through the grieving process and that's not healthy for them.<P>As far as how to tell him/her. We sat down in a circle, I talked and told them everything that was going to happen, there was no bad talking, power struggleing, or finger pointing. The children need to see a united front. <P>Best of luck....<P>------------------<BR>Love, Bill<P>-There are none so blind as those who refuse to see!-<BR>-Stand up and do the right thing, even if your standing alone.-

Krazy,<P>There's a book but now I can't think of the name of it again. I posted it for Nina so maybe she'll remember. It was on the effects of divorce a 25 year study on a neighborhood and the children who's parents got divorced. A friend said it really tells a lot of things to avoid while going through a divorce. These things come straight from the children, who are now grown, mouths.<P>My situation was so similar to yours. We never let the kids know there was a problem. I wish months before when I knew it was over, I would have went to the kids, set them down and said "We are having some major problems in our marriage and I just want you guys to know, while we are trying to work it out, we may have to separate from each other for a while." I think this was have helped alot but I didn't do it.<P>Here's what we did decide to do. Even though we knew a divorce was inevitable. We told the kids we needed a time out, that just like when they get tired of each other and need their distance as siblings, we need time away from each other, so daddy is moving out?" They asked if we would divorce and I did basically lie and I said "I don't know, I can not guarantee we won't, but for right now we are just going to take it a day at a time and spend time apart." They of course cried. They were in total shock because of not knowing there was even a problem.<P>Even when my husband filed, we decided to wait to tell the children. I only told them about two weeks ago, even though we've known for months. Perhaps some will say this was wrong but when I did tell them, they already knew. I said I have something to tell you guys and they said "We know you guys are going to divorce." So we talked about it and I do think although this was hard on them, it would have been much, much harder not to let them get used to the idea about divorcing and just shock them with "Oh even though you think mom and dad were this happy married couple, we weren't and we are divorcing." <P>Another thing that helped is for them to see that life with daddy living away from them, isn't nearly as bad as I think they had imagagined.<P>Well good luck.<P>ANNA

Well, I was honest with my kids from the start..they knew we had problems already, yes, they hurt, yes, they struggle and act out. My oldest daughter is actually doing better in school now she's making A's and B's as opposed to C's and below..My other two are doing good in school, yes they have their moments..but I talk to them, and let them know that if they have any questions then they need to ask me, because I can't alievate any fears I don't know about..<P>I also spoke to their teachers at school, and contacted their school counselors and made appointments for me and them to go in and talk to them..And we both let the kids know that the counselor is available for them to talk to during the day at school if they feel they need to "talk" to someone about how they feel..I also let their teachers know that if they start acting up that they should be able to go talk to the counselor if they need to.. I also let their dad know that I did this, he wasn't thrilled but I honestly didn't care..I am more concerend about my childrens emotional well being here..and I don't want them to handle problems the way he does..by drinking, or the way I did by bottling them up inside until I was so depressed that I had to get help..I want them to know that it's okay to talk about things that bother them, and they have someone they can confide in that isn't mom and dad..if they need to..<P>Be honest with your children, this is something that effects them also..and since we know that kids do hurt it might be a good idea to also let the teachers know what is going on..<BR>and also if you are in counseling, maybe take your child/ren<BR>with you or make them their own appointment so they can have someone to talk to also..<P>

Thorned Rose,<P>I agree. It is important to be honest with your kids. It's good you could be so upfront with them.<P>Although I do think mine would have been almost traumatically shocked if we would have told them that we our divorcing the day he moved out. If my children would have seen the real marriage it would have been easier but they thought of us as the "perfectly happy, will never split up" family. As a matter of fact, almost everyone in my family did. A couple of my family members were so extremely shocked, they called me up the day after I told them the news and said "We wish you have told us like a month or two months ago that there was a problem? We are all having such a tough time just dealing with the shock. You never let us know there us a problem." This made me realize that if adults were struggling so hard with the shock, then not saying the word divorce right away and only saying the word separated was the right choice in my situation for the children.<P>Sure if I had to do it over, I would have done it so differently. I would have been more up front with them. I would have told them over the years that mommy and daddy are having problems and we are trying to deal with them. I should have said we may or may not get a divorce, but at the time my instinct was to protect them and shelter them from the real world.<P>Actually, just thinking about it, if I had it to do over, I should have divorced him three years ago.<P>Take care Thorned Rose,<P>ANNA<BR>

Anna,<P>I understand..I think that is why we shouldn't live with masks on..and if someone asks us how we are..we should tell<BR>them - not very good right now..we don't have to give details..but we can let them know we are struggling..there is nothing wrong with admitting when you have a problem..<BR>or are having a bad day..<P>I guess I have learned over the past three years of struggling with this..that I couldn't do it alone..I needed<BR>support from my family and friends..so they weren't surprised that it's come to this..they are just surprised <BR>it has taken so long..but they also try to understand that I have waited and waited and given chance after chance for him to follow through on his promises of actually being here..it took me three years to finally figure out that it's apparently NOT what he wants no matter what his words say..<BR>They all seen things when he was around that I ignored because I wanted my kids to have an intact family--my family and friends supported me..they prayed with me and for me..<BR>they couldn't have done that if I hadn't shared with them what I was struggling with..they seen things yes, but they kept their thoughts about it to themselves..well, most of them..some of them didn't..like my mom..but God rest her soul..she got out how she felt before she died..she told me to divorce him..and that was 5 years ago now..but I didn't listen..I kept trying..but I guess sometimes..we need to know when it's time to just let go..but that has to be in our own time..and not in someone elses time frame..<P>I wish it were easier for you..but you will get past it, and be stronger for having gone through it..

Hi there,<P>The book is called "The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce" by Judith Wallerstein.<P>I haven't got it yet..can't seem to get any books recommended here.<P>my big thing with the kids is honesty, without flaming each other of course.

In Florida your required by law to take a<BR>Class called "Children First in Divorce"<BR>they have a book they give out to everyone who takes the class..I'll list some of things it says..<P>Prior to announcing the divorce to child/ren,<BR>parents need time to think through what they need to hear, what will worry them the most, and what they do not need to hear...<P>While not always possible, whenever parents can tell children about the divorce together, several things are more likely to happen:<P>Children move through denial quicker<P>Parents are already modeling their ability<BR>to still cooperate as parents.<P>There tends to be ledd focus on a "bad guy", less temptation to turn children into confidantes and allies..<P>Some of the things children need to hear are"<P>1. Though a marriage has ended -- the family will continue, including relationships w/ extended families.<P>2. While adult feelings for one another can change, the special bond between parent and child are forever.<P>3. Parents will continue taking care of their children and provide for them.<P>4. Children need to hear that the divorce is NOT their fault. They did not "cause" the problems, nor can they "fix" them.<P>5. The decision to divorce is not a whim, but carefully thought-out direction after a lot of effort went into trying to make the marriage work.<P>6. Parents regret the hurt this decision has caused their child/ren.<P>7. Though the divorce will bring lots of changes in time spent w/ parents, other areas in the life of the child/ren will continue:<BR>(school, house, friends, or whatever parents can manage that will stay the same)<P>8. Younger children, in peticular, need routines to structure their lives. Share current routines that will continue.<P>9. Parents understand children will have a lot of concerns and certainly a lot of feelings about the divorce, and parents are available to listen. Invite children to share what worries them most, was there anything they did not understand..<P>What should I tell my Children?<P>Tell them this:<BR>1. What is going to happen next. Predictability leads to stability in a childs life- Children want to know "What will happen to me?"<P>2. When they will see Mom/Dad again. (children fear abandonment)<P>3. That they will be taken care of.<P>4. That the divorce is NOT their fault.<P>5. And let them know You are NOT divorcing them..<P>It also discusses some issues on dating..<P>Use Discretion..<BR>Children need time to adjust to the change of having parents in seperate homes.<BR>Children may feel like they will be "forgotten" when attention is given to a new person.<BR>Children frequently have little time w/ a parent ..sometimes sharing that time is difficult.<P>but that is just a little info from the book..hope it helps..

TR,<P>Good post!<P>ANNA<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ThornedRose:<BR><STRONG>In Florida your required by law to take a<BR>Class called "Children First in Divorce"<BR>they have a book they give out to everyone who takes the class..I'll list some of things it says..<P>Prior to announcing the divorce to child/ren,<BR>parents need time to think through what they need to hear, what will worry them the most, and what they do not need to hear...<P>While not always possible, whenever parents can tell children about the divorce together, several things are more likely to happen:<P>Children move through denial quicker<P>Parents are already modeling their ability<BR>to still cooperate as parents.<P>There tends to be ledd focus on a "bad guy", less temptation to turn children into confidantes and allies..<P>Some of the things children need to hear are"<P>1. Though a marriage has ended -- the family will continue, including relationships w/ extended families.<P>2. While adult feelings for one another can change, the special bond between parent and child are forever.<P>3. Parents will continue taking care of their children and provide for them.<P>4. Children need to hear that the divorce is NOT their fault. They did not "cause" the problems, nor can they "fix" them.<P>5. The decision to divorce is not a whim, but carefully thought-out direction after a lot of effort went into trying to make the marriage work.<P>6. Parents regret the hurt this decision has caused their child/ren.<P>7. Though the divorce will bring lots of changes in time spent w/ parents, other areas in the life of the child/ren will continue:<BR>(school, house, friends, or whatever parents can manage that will stay the same)<P>8. Younger children, in peticular, need routines to structure their lives. Share current routines that will continue.<P>9. Parents understand children will have a lot of concerns and certainly a lot of feelings about the divorce, and parents are available to listen. Invite children to share what worries them most, was there anything they did not understand..<P>What should I tell my Children?<P>Tell them this:<BR>1. What is going to happen next. Predictability leads to stability in a childs life- Children want to know "What will happen to me?"<P>2. When they will see Mom/Dad again. (children fear abandonment)<P>3. That they will be taken care of.<P>4. That the divorce is NOT their fault.<P>5. And let them know You are NOT divorcing them..<P>It also discusses some issues on dating..<P>Use Discretion..<BR>Children need time to adjust to the change of having parents in seperate homes.<BR>Children may feel like they will be "forgotten" when attention is given to a new person.<BR>Children frequently have little time w/ a parent ..sometimes sharing that time is difficult.<P>but that is just a little info from the book..hope it helps..</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>My child would be completely shocked if we announced a pending separation or divorce to him. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Very doubtful they would be surprised. Shocked and hurt yes, but not surprised. Your kid probably know more about what went on than you do.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>2. While adult feelings for one another can change, the special bond between parent and child are forever.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Why would they believe that? If adults could stop loving each other, what guarantee would there be that they would continue loving their kids? <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>4. Children need to hear that the divorce is NOT their fault. They did not<BR>"cause" the problems, nor can they "fix" them.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It is true that when the affair is out in the open, children rarely blame themselves. They know that the parent left for the OP, not because of anything the kids did. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>5. The decision to divorce is not a whim, but carefully thought-out direction after a lot of effort went into trying to make the marriage work.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That is laughable.<p>[ October 11, 2001: Message edited by: Nellie1 ]

Nellie,<P>Those are things Kids need to hear to help them adjust to the situation..<P>And divorce isn't usually a whim..and kids need to know that..<P>And you need to help them understand that as a parent your love for them is different than love you would have for a spouse..your chid is a part of you..not someone you met and married..

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>2. While adult feelings for one another can change, the special bond between parent and child are forever.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Depends on what you mean by “special.” How “special” is this bond if Mom never sees her daughters and talks to them only a few times a year? Or the girls are not interested in anything about Mom including sending a birthday or Christmas card?<P>A child/parent relationship can withstand a marriage failure but it still needs to be nurtured to keep it alive.

ThornedRose,<P>And what about kids who are adopted? They are also someone the parent chose. My H, whom I have known all my adult life, is also part of me. <P>Parents absolutely DO throw away the relationship with their kids when they divorce. It happens far more often than not with non-custodial parents. <P>Yes, divorce is OFTEN a whim - what else would you call it when a man tells a prospective employer that his family is the most important thing in the world to him, and then a couple of years later begins an affair and within months runs away to move in with the OW? My H even said before he left, "I have been feeling this way for WEEKS, maybe MONTHS." In many, many, cases there is no warning, much less any attempt to "work on the marriage".<p>[ October 12, 2001: Message edited by: Nellie1 ]

The parent/child relationship - it grated on me too. My kids have lost the father they knew. He rarely calls them and emails them only when they do it first to him. He is OS. But he has divorced his children from his heart, they do NOT count in his life any more, and the kids know it. I tell them he loves them, but they see his actions and don't believe me. His loss in the end.<P>And Nellie is also right about the comment about trying to work the marriage out...in almost all literature i have read it is ONE person trying to work it out, the other does not want it. To tell my kids otherwise is a lie. I won't do that for anyone.

[img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] I don't have all the answers..sorry, I just shared what they gave me in the literature on what the kids NEED to HEAR to make the transition easier for them..<P>We aren't supposed to bad-mouth our ex's, stbx's or anything in front of the kids, even if we really want to tell them just what we think of the other person..<P>just as we aren't supposed to say "YOUR JUST LIKE YOUR MOM/DAD" because if that person left them..or they have heard ALL these bad things..then they begin to think you feel the same way about them that you do about the ex..<P>They need to see things for themselves and learn to make their own decisions about how they feel about the parent they never see..<BR>And if they ask you..then personally I feel that you should be honest..or say, well, I think that is something you should talk to Other Parent about..and leave it up to them to tell them..Make them responsible for their own actions..or lack of them..and if they refuse to be honest with them..thats not YOUR fault..the kids will see through it..but it is their parent..they will have ambivalance about loving mom/dad because they are their parent..and hating their parent..but you as the parent need to be able to teach them..it's okay to love mom/dad, but that it's also okay not to like what they do or don't do..<P>it's like the Bible says about God..He he hates the sin, but He loves the sinner..he knows that the sin isn't who the person is on the inside..it's just how they choose to live..and there is a big difference..and we need to teach our kids that..it's okay to like/love someone but we don't always have to like what they do..<P>You can let them know if you are the one who left..that you didn't like whatever it was they were doing..and so you CHOOSE not to live like that anymore because it hurt you..<P>I know I struggle w/ the same things w/ my own kids, and it's hard for me too.

In large measure, I DO feel about my kids the same way I do about my H - I love them all with all my heart, even though I am sometimes annoyed or even furious with them. It is very important for children to learn that love is unconditional, unwavering, and permanent, and does not go away just because you may be angry with someone.

A couple of things:<P>My divorce decree states that neither my children's father or I can "badmouth" each other.. Hey, I'll get it and quote it...<P>"Neither party shall use or make, or allow any other persons to use or make any disparaging or derogatory remarks about the absent parent iin the presence of said children"<P>It is interesting to note that "said children" are minor children.<P>Secondly, I believe in radical honesty -- even with children -- age appropriately, of course.<P>So, what did I tell my children about the divorce... I didn't have to say much, they LIVED THERE... and two are over 18, the youngest 17... so, they're old enough to know the truth, and the truth is what they got. Even my ugly skeletons... from MY LIPS... I have no idea what their dad tells them, but I believe, from what they tell me, that he has been equally forthcoming (although his version of the "truth" does differ from mine a bit).

Exactly Nyv, <P>They see things and they hear things..even if we "try" to protect them..<P>personally I think that sometimes Kids need to hear parents disagree on things..not fight, and yell and scream at each other or hit each other..but disagree, that way they learn that it is okay to disagree with someone you love and care about. but like I said..thats mho