I know that you love her, and I believe that she needs you. But, The BIG But ! Will it work and does she love you, I think not. Your age difference is just to large and she seems to have lots of growing up to do. I realize that you love her but channel that love and devotion to your child. I just sense trouble in the short and long term. Start working on yourself.

I want to applogize for not answering each of your posts personally. I really do appreciate the time and effort you have taken to read and make suggestions. <p>So, going back a few days, I'll try to reply now.<p>mnca6713julia3,<p>I was very interested in your posting because your approach worked. I like things that work. Basically, you say that you dragged you feet and fought the divorce and eventually, your H turned around. I hope that works. I'm worried about that approach because my W feels trapped. I've already missed another chance to force her to move home. I gave her the money to pay her rent for the next six months in a new place. She is moving to a larger and cheaper place in a couple of weeks. So, by enabling her to stay away for another half a year, I'm shooting myself in the foot maybe. I'm not sure. I didn't want her "forced" to move home. Maybe she will yet change her mind and stay with me. She says she is undecided still. Please tell me more about your situation, mnca6713julia3. How long did it take?

Wiffty,<p>Again, I am finally posting individual replies to posts that people made several days ago.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by WhenIfindthetime:
<strong>AD, what do you think she will do once she finishes her education, learns to cope and actually be able to live in this country without your "parental" support? What will she want with her blooming independence?<p>You are toast in the long run. . . because she isn't yet marriage material. . . she hasn't done her wild stuff. . . she is not ready to settle down yet.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Well, Wiffty, I don't know how to reply to this, because I do appreciate the time that you (and others) have spent reading and writing about my case, but I just don't find this to be helpful advice. My goal is to save my marriage. Telling me that it is hopeless is ... well, not helpful. It might be realistic, but it is not helpful. Sorry, I don't mean to be negative, but that's the way I see it. I will continue with hope as always.<p>As for your contention that she is not ready to settle down yet, I would have to dissagree - at least to the extent that she has become a very attentive mother over the last year and almost lives for our child. That is not the behaviour of a purely selfish young person itching to "do her wild stuff". She's lonely living alone and wants to be married - just not to me.<p>-AD

AdamS,<p>Thank you for your three postings on this thread. I'm going to say the same thing that I said to Wiffty - and I hope not to offend you. My goal is to save my marriage. I post here in an effort to get responces which are useful to me in pursuit of that goal. So far, all you have said is that it is hopeless and I need to "work on myself". I agree with the latter suggestion, but any advice to the effect that it is hopeless is (as I told Wiffty) not helpful. If you think of something helpful, please throw it in here, but please hold back on the "you can't win" theme.<p>OK?<p>-AD<p>[ November 01, 2001: Message edited by: AbandonedDad ]</p>

Anna2000,<p>Thank you for your kind words about me (very kind, actually!). I don't know that I deserve them. As for your comments re my W, well... I didn't want people to hate her. Probably I'm not telling all her good points. One thing that I really appreciate is that she confessed pretty quickly and, I think, pretty completely. Also, she seems to be staying away from OM lately. I'm not sure why.<p>I still don't understand what she wants from me.<p>
UPDATE----<p>OK, so yesterday, I gave her the money for 6 months rent on her new place. I could have forced her to move home by not doing that - since she already gave notice on her old place and has to move by the 15th. Although I managed to stay away from her on Sunday, she has to leave our daughter with me while she goes to class 4 nights a week - so she's been over here - actually more than neccesary this week. She came yesterday (I mean Tueday) and asked me to keep the baby while she went for a job interview - because I was dragging my feet on paying her rent and she was feeling trapped again by having no money of her own. So, I had the baby about 6 hours on Tuesday - 2 hours during the job interview and 4 hours during her classes that night.<p>I gave her a check for the 6 months rent Tuesday night. She asked me several times "are you sure?". She said if I was going to hate her for taking the money she didn't want it. She let me kiss her on the cheek and kinda hugged me before she left.<p>Wednesday, she didn't call at all - just showed up before her class to leave the baby. She didn't stay very long after class either. I had cooked something, but she didn't stay and eat. I could say "well, she got what she wanted (money)", but on the other hand, I had asked her to leave me alone - because it is so painful for her to try to by "friends" while she continues to want to divorse me. So, I guess I can't blame her for doing what I asked.<p>She asked me to give her a dish Wed night - so she could cook us a batch of lasagne this weekend and bring it to us. I gladly gave her the dish - and some lasagne noodles too. Why do I do that? When I've been trying to discourage her from cooking for us? I don't know. I'm not being very consistent in my attempts at "plan b".<p>-AD

Hi AD,<p>Did you miss my most recent reply on this page??? <p>I thought what you did on Sunday had some really good results, and ought to spur you on to do a better job at Plan B, if that's what you want to do. I don't quite think you are out of Plan A yet!<p>Hey it's EASY for me to Plan B my H....well I suppose that's because I never see him cos he's in a different country. It must be SO hard to plan B when the spouse is around as often as she is....<p>What you need to do is read again the Plan B info, to get a really good idea of what it is all about. It is supposed to mean no contact, no meeting ANY of the spouses emotional needs, and is also for preserving that little bit of love you have left for the WS. I actually think you still love her a LOT, you enjoy trying to meet her needs, and you want to see her. So maybe you are not ready for Plan B yet.<p>BTW, I think you have done an excellent Plan A so far.<p>Love and light,<p>Jacky

Jacky,<p>Please forgive me for neglecting to reply to your posts earlier. You have been quite faithful (the most faithful) in posting on my thread and keeping track of my situation in general.<p>Thank you for your encouraging words. I wish my plan A was much better than it has been. I should have lost some weight. I should have done more on the house. I should have spent more time helping W's nephew - who needs some help with his studies - and needs more socialization too. So, I haven't done nearly as well as I had hoped.<p>You are right that I want to spent time with my W. I'm glad when she calls and when she comes, and when she cooks for us etc. But, it really hurts that she persists in making other living arrangements. I don't know if I did the right thing to give her the money for 6 months rent (she had to pay in advance because we are both unemployed). To be honest, I miss her so much - it's been about 2 months since I was spending the night at her place. I can't believe that I missed opportunities to reach out to her even more - to meet her needs even more - to let her know that I am really excited by her. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Now, she tells me not to give her any "personal" complements. She asked me not to send flowers. Fortunately, I had sent flowers to her the day before she brought OM to her apartment. At least he saw that. One of her girlfriends (old college roommate) even is envious of the flowers - because she came over 3 different times and saw different flowers at W's appartment. Now, W says not to send or bring flowers. I think she is flexible - she is reachable. But, I don't know if I can hold out for another 6 months. I suppose that just because she pays the rent doesn't mean she has to live there - or that I can't live there too. Things have changed before - and they might change again.<p>Anyway, I thank you Jacky for posting so often and paying attention to my plight. I'll take your advice and just try to keep up the plan A. Plan B is impossible with children, as far as I can see - unless the father (usually) just doesn't care to see the kids. I'm sorry about your situation there. Is your Dad still seeing the kids often even though you are not living with your folks?<p>I'd better go to bed now. 4AM is my bedtime. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>-AD

I agree with nina too that you're not ready for plan b yet. Sounds like you're doing a good plan A. I cringed a bit when I read about you paying her rent for the next 6 months. While I can appreciate your motive of not 'forcing' her to move back, I also see that her dwelling under a separate roof is hurting you. I'd much rather see you happy! Guess that's not on the menu right now. This may not be a good time to ask, but I worry about the effects of your financial support of her. You'll need to consider the source here. I have kicked myself around the block a few times for shielding my H from consequences of his actions. In hindsight, I would have done things a lot differently. To be blunt, it's not fair for you to pay for two households. If she feels so strongly that she wants a roof of her own, she should also have a taste of the responsibilities that go along with life as a single parent. That would be a consequence of the choice she is making. Each time you pay her rent, you are shielding her from that consequence. Your situation is totally different from mine, and I don't want to criticize a decision that you might have agonized over. In my experience, however, I didn't receive any rewards for shouldering responsibilities that belonged to my H. I'll wish for a better outcome for you.

LH,<p>Thanks for posting.<p>Yes, it was probably a mistake to give her the money. My reasoning was that I would have to pay child support anyway if we divorced and I didn't want to push her to divorce just to get court-ordered child support. She got a discount on the rent and it is less than her current apartment and the new apartment is bigger - so our daughter can have her own room.<p>I would much rather she come home, but she was sometimes violent - she said she felt trapped. I didn't want her home unless she wanted to be home. Still, I feel like writing that check was signing away my marriage.<p>Plan B is going pretty well, I suppose. Since I gave her the check she hasn't called me - just shows up when I need to keep the baby. I know when to expect her. She didn't call at all today. I called her to tell her my brother lost his job - and I would be helping him out a little. So, now my savings are supporting 7 people. Well, not yet. My brother will do anything he can do to make a few bucks, but he has always lived hand to mouth and has no savings.<p>I've got to get a job.<p>I really miss her. I don't like plan B. Now I don't remember why I wanted to go that way.<p>I did a little work today - stripped out most of the second bathroom. Still need to remove the underlayment - then lay plywood, cement board and finaly tile - then put it back together again - fixtures, wallpaper etc. etc. etc. I actually enjoy this work, but I was really slow today.<p>I've got to get a job.<p>-AD

AD, <p>You are supporting SEVEN people???? Your heart is too big, man, and it is gonna bust you before long. Take care of your assets. You might need them in the future.<p>I am sorry she is distant again, having received the rent money. Very sad.<p>AD, Plan B is NOT impossible with children. You probably need a court order to ensure this, but she could drop baby at a mutual friend's home, go away. Then you pick up D, have your time, bring her back, then YOU go awa. W comes later to pick up. No it is NOT impossible.<p>Contact IS necessary for certain matters, but that can be done via email or telephone....kids and business are all the contact I will accept from my H, and I won't talk to him on the phone...hurts too much.<p>Plan B is good in some ways, really bad in others. I can see why people go back and forth between Plan A and B. Plan B offers no real hope for reconciliation. That is hard to accept.