Rape! By a man who had a significant role in my life. That's why.

bleubelle,<P>Obviously rape is a horrible experience that no one except the victim can really understand.<P>I do not think that your experience with counseling is necessarily transferable to infidelity.<P>I personally have very little regard for the field of counseling, both due to personal experience with counselors and with graduate students training in the field when I was a psych major, and also due to what I have read about the quality (or lack thereof) of training. The current trend in training is to emphasize the individual at the expense of the family. Just because someone has a degree in social work or even an MD in psychiatry doesn't mean they have any common sense. <P>You do not seem to realize that this is NOT about anger and NOT about my H in particular. I do not believe that, given sufficient insight, I could have predicted that he would do this. My H was a good man. If my H could be transformed like this, so could anyone. How can ANYONE find "peace" once they have realized that no one, no matter how long you have known them, can be trusted - that they can not be trusted even to continue to treat their children with love?

Nellie,<P>I went back and reread your original posts, to see if I could see anger in them, after the discussion that has been going on.<P>I don't really see anger, I see Pain and a kind of dispirted attitude.(that's not the right word). Almost as if you are emotionally exhausted, yet know that you still have years of watching this man hurt your children.<P>This is a very difficult time for you, your studies will help, so will concentrating on your kids. <P>The biggest thing to remember is.<P>OCTOBER IS THE MONTH OF GOULS & GOBBLINS,the month that all the evil spirits walk the earth. Apparently your EX is one of the biggest. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]<P>-KAT-

Nellie,<P>I am taking a huge chance writing this. The last time I said something like this, I was asked to leave a thread and told that although my words were nice, my life was not.<P>Nellie, first, I respect you completely. You know that, I think.<P>You know that I understand you, since I've been here since you've been here (or close to it anyway) and we've seen each other through everything we've gone through. Your dedication to your H has been admirable, to me. <P>Now, what I'm going to say, is regarding this quote:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nellie1:<BR><STRONG>If my H could be transformed like this, so could anyone. How can ANYONE find "peace" once they have realized that no one, no matter how long you have known them, can be trusted.</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I have not found "peace" quite yet, but I have chosen to take the chance that there is someone out there who will not be transformed no matter what happens in our life. <P>Life is full of risks, and I have chosen to take a big one, by falling in love and getting married to another man. <P>In my case, as you know, my only minor child (he's 17 now) remained with his father, and yes, that did make a difference. I left my son with the only person I could trust him with - his father. <P>I know that some look at this as the most selfish horrible thing I could have done. Lord knows that I've spent plenty of time beating myself up about it. Truly, that is why I lack the peace that is so close I can touch it -- but not close enough to grab.<P>Nellie, I've told you over the years that I worry about you too. I know that you haven't gotten "close" to a lot of people here, but I have. I consider you and many others here REAL and I care. I have said prayers for you, and I have thought of you when I'm off this board.<P>I know your life was changed forever. I worry because you are dying a slow painful death every day. <P>I care.<P>I send you peace, if only for a moment.<P>Sheryl<p>[ October 19, 2001: Message edited by: Nyneve ]

Nellie,<BR>I think we have been on the board for nearly the same amount of time. I rarely visit here anymore, and I can identify with so much of what you are going through.<P>While I have been more fortunate in that my stbx has not been able to change my financial circumstances, I have lived with the insanity that one man's crisis has visited and continues to revisit on not only myself(which I do not allow myself to buy into), but much more importantly, our 4 children. IT IS THIS THAT HAS MADE THE SITUATION A NIGHTMARE.<BR>This is not about infidelity,this is not about a divorce, this is not about anger and moving on, this is about evil intentions and manipulation of children, am attempt to shatter any and all family bonds between any of our chilkdren and between my children and myself. This is about a parents unwillingness to face up to his own inadequacies and to take responsibilty especially as a father. Despite his avowal that "life is great" he must be so hurt that he can think of nothing other than destroying me...how sad for him<BR>The reasons I think:<BR>1)to punish me(I do not know why either)<BR>2)to justify his insane behaviour<BR>3)to make himself feel better about himself and the choices he made<BR>4)to blame me for the choices he made<P>What has made it so much more difficuly is the role modelling he now provides to these young adults and teens<BR>-drugs are good....and we all do them<BR>-no responsibility for behaviour and actions are fine<BR>-blame others for your behaviour, it is never your fault<BR>-material possessions are what makes one feel ggood,especially if you do not earn it yourself...false sense of entitlement<BR>-not supporting your children<BR>-judgemental of everyone else <BR>-prejudiced-no communication with the mother of his 4 children about children's issues whatsoever. When I have contacted him, he has used theinformation ,turned it and made life doubly hard for me as aparent,undoing the values I try to instill with concrete actions.<P>So while I have accepted that this is who he is, and his gf is entitled to him,the fact that I have chosen to take care of our children,make all decisions, be the disciplinarian all the while he tries to undermine this parenting, has made it so much worse than it should have been.<P>I hear so many on the board not understanding where you are coming from...I do Nellie,believe me. I do not know how you have been able to be so "calm" <P>The tragedy is that not only will we carry these scars, our children will carry them into all their relationships.......<P>I also will not trust anyone either...and I know my children do not...<P>That does not mean in the fullness of time I would not want to have a caring loving relationship with a man. I do.But at this time, there is still far too much chaos in terms of my teenaged children living at home.<P>I know you have many years before you get to that point Nellie. Where your children are able to leave the nest.....<BR>So I can only say that I pray for you to have some joy in your life.....

Nellie,<BR>You know how much I have worried about you. While I see the rest of us old timers moving on with our lives I see you still in that dark lonely place we once all were. <P>I'm sorry but such saddness and complete devistation will show through to the kids. <BR>You can't change things. Nothing you do will ever bring him back. <P>It's up to you to show your kids that when you get knocked down you can get up again with your pride intact. Sometime you are going to have to face the fact that its over. He is dead to you. The happiness and the memories of the past will forever be with in you but the man you knew is dead. <P>There is happiness out there waiting for you. Reach for it. Like me, sometimes you just don't reach it and you fall and get hurt but then you just try again. Life is not worth living without a little pain. Nor is it worth living without loving and you are to young to keep this up. <P>I do and have always cared about you Nellie. <BR>None of us here wanted to give up on our marriages it was just time.<P>Jill

Kat,<P>Yes, I do feel pain and exhaustion - but looking back on my posts, I do not see where bleubell is seeing anger.<P>Come to think of it, October is also the month my son ended up in the hospital with mono as a baby, and the month I came down with pneumonia many years ago - the only thing good about it is my daughter's birthday. <P>Willbok,<P>Thank you for your support. There was another thread awhile back about the book, "Sudden Endings: Wife Abandonment ..." I can't remember the rest of the title, and I was disappointed and surprised at the number of people who didn't believe that men could suddenly turn on their wives so severely. <P>I guess I should be grateful that my H has not done some of the harmful things that your H has, such as promoting drug use. Mostly my H has too little emotional energy to promote much of anything.<P>Sheryl,<P>Hopefully no one will ask you to leave this thread - I certainly won't. Please don't take this in that way. Unfortunately, your experience has in some ways confirmed my conviction that you can not trust anyone. I firmly believe that you, like my H, are a good person, you obviously have a strong conscience, and I am sure you love your son and daughters. When you first came to this board, had anyone suggested that now, two years later, you would be living 4000 miles away from your son, I suspect you would have thought they were crazy. I worry about you, because I am not at all sure that you will ever really find peace due to the circumstances surrounding your move and re-marriage.<P>It has just made me more convinced than ever that people, no matter how good, no matter how moral, no matter how well-developed their sense of guilt, will give up everything that is important for "love".<P>Jill,<P>I can not agree that my H is "dead" - at least not to me. I do worry that he is, as Sheryl said about me, dying each day. Even our 15 year old boy noticed and commented on his father's flatness of emotion. It was not like this when he first left - sometimes he was overly "up" and more often he was terribly angry and sometimes verbally agressive. In the last few months he has rarely displayed any emotion whatsoever - he certainly appears to be one of the most miserable "newlyweds" I have ever seen. <P>Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on how you look at it) I am a great deal older than you are, Jill. <P>I will always love my H. Marriages can not be "over" because a marriage is something that by definition can not end except in death.<p>[ October 19, 2001: Message edited by: Nellie1 ]

You know what Nellie?<P>You make a very valid point about me and my situation.<P>I am sorry that I have caused you any pain, or have given you any reason to doubt the truthworthiness of humanity.<P>I will continue to keep you in my thoughts and prayers.<P>Please keep me in your thoughts too, okay??

Sheryl,<P>I do think of you, and worry about you, often.