Hi everyone-<P>Well after no contact since Sat. night's pizza outing fiasco with the OW and kids (compliments of the baby) my H called yesterday afternoon. It was his night for the kids so he said he needed to know where to get them. I told him the same place he always does on Tuesday and he said he was just checking since we hadn't talked in awhile. He then asked if I'd had a good weekend and so I told him it had been very good and asked him the same thing. He asked what I meant since I knew he'd worked so it couldn't be very good. Well yes, I thought, but hello, the OW was home from college so I figured it would have been pretty good in spite of work. I kept my thought to myself though. I would be wonderful if they had had a crappy weekend, but who knows.<P>When he picked up the kids he brought back a T.V. remote that had been broken but he had fixed. I thanked him and then I told him I needed to get my brakes checked and asked him where I should go. He said he didn't care. To that I said, "Well, I wasn't expecting you to care, but however, you're the one who is great with vehicles so I thought I'd get your input." I tell you, I felt like I was dealing with one of the kids. He immediately lit up and told me where he thought I should go. He said to tell the guy that I was his wi - he stopped short and said you know, he'll take care of you. I thanked him and he left. I didn't hear his truck start so I peeked out the window and here he was looking at my van. He never said anything, but it was nice to catch him checking.<P>I then left for a few hours. When I got home they were already there. We taled for awhile, nothing major. Then he asked what I had done to my hair. I aked him if he thought something was wrong with it and he said no but that it was different. I told him I had gotten it cut and colored. It actually looks like I had worn it a few years back during happier times for us. He told me it looked nice and I thanked him and told him the two oldest kids didn't like the change and he reaffirmed that he liked it - Yes!<P>I don't know why I'm even posting this, it's just that Plan A is going pretty well, but this is such a roller coaster! I just wish I knew what was happening with the OW. I'm doing very well, but still want him to at least try to fix things with us. I really believe we can make it.<P>K

K<P>WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Don't you think this is a new attitude? It amazes me how something so easy like telling him, the way you did, that his opinion was important to you and that you valued his expertise, brought him back in. <BR>He is thinking about YOU. He noticed YOU. It may be awhile before you find out what realy went on Sat. night. <BR>He thought enough to FIX the remote AND bring it back. (that is TWO things) I've read that fixing STUFF is one way men say they care. I know that my husband is that way too. He is NOT mad at you. I've read so many times that they need to be mad and to blame you in order to leave. I know he moved out but it sounds like he is emotionaly coming around a bit.<P>You did something else that impressed me. You told him that you know that you had a part in the fall out of your marriage. You told him how sorry you are concerning your own responsibility in all of this. No excuses, you apologized. I have heard and read that this is the first step in healing. I have had several occasions to do this with my daughter and I do believe that this has helped her to come around. Anyway, I know that there is so much hurt there with you yet, you were still able to do this, and with a new Baby! You really are a strong person with compassion far more that most.<P>Our D is coming for the Birthday dinner. I'm going to use this tactic on her. The big thing I'm going to do is "keep my mouth shut". Something I'm working on and doing so much better.<P>K, I know that his is a roller coaster but maybe, just MAYBE things are happening that you can't see yet. So many stories I read here are back'n forth. You are in a new position as the "nice one". OG maybe backing off or LBing, who knows.<BR>I can tell you what her parents are saying though. "It's about time she saw and experienced the kids", "It's about time she had a reality check". They may have encouraged her to have him bring the kids, knowing and hoping that this would bring her around. I know that I would if the situation were the same. Our D's MM is still at home. I'm not going to say that there isn't more to come but atleast "shaking things UP" is "a good thing".<P>If you have a chance, get "Love busters" the companion book to "His Needs Her Needs". My husband and I are reading it now and it's as good. I've also been reading the Q and A section for this sight. I sure wish I could get D to read some of this stuff. Anything I mention is "the kiss of death". Remember, thats likely where OG's parents are comming from. I so feel for them, I'm sure they are as sick about this as you are and I am. <P>Please keep writing, I'm your head chearleader! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Hi Marry-<P>Thanks for responding. I always look forward to your thoughts. My H has spent most of the day in the bars today. Yes I was spying, but what can I say I'm only human. I first saw him accidentally and then kept checking as I ran errands. Anyway, he worked until 7 am and at 1 this afternoon he was still there. This usually means something is up. It's his coping device. If he's feeling fine he'll go and have a couple and head home, but when things are bothering him he drowns them out. Anyway, 1 was the last I saw of his truck, but he's not home yet either and it's 4. I hope he's not doing anything stupid. <P>I must say I am liking this being the nice and understanding one. It is totally MB and Al- Anon, but it really works, I feel so much better about myself and life in general.<P>I am so glad that your daughter is coming. What a perfect opportunity to make deposits in her love bank. I know what you mean about keeping your mouth shut. It can be so hard at times, but I think we both have seen the benefits of biting our tongues, even if we've swallowed our share of blood from it. <P>You are so right about people living up to our expectations. It amazes me how much my H responds when I ask him for help, offer praise, etc.<P>I'll have to check out Love Busters. I ordered SA, but it hasn't arrived yet. If either of them are as good as HNHN I can't wait to read them. <P>Well, the baby is crying so I better go. Things are looking up for both of us and time is definately on our sides!<P>K

K<BR>Talk about the drinking thing. This has been a problem in the past, you have mentioned this. Has he been abuseive? How has this effected you and your family? Has he ever been to any kind of treatment program?<P>I know that there is alot written on this subject in this sight. This may change the way the PLAN's work. I'm not sure but it does change the equasion a bit. <P>I realize this is taking you in a diferent direction and if you aren't wanting to go there then I will not ask again.<P>I do know that you have grown through this, It would be so great if he could come to a point where he wants to grow too.<P>Hope you are hearing from him. This does sound as though the A has more to do with his essues that with you.

Hi Marry-<P>Yes his drinking bothers me. He has been through treatment before and has never stuck with it. I know he took his first mandatory parenting through divorce class this morning and afterwards instead of going home to sleep ( he had worked 11pm - 7am last night) he went to a bar. He drinks to cope and I do not know what it will take for him to conquer this demon. I will say that during our separation it has been the one thing that has given me peace. What I mean is that I finally have been able to detatch myself from his problem. When he was at home I lived with it, fought the idea of going to Al-Anon (which only made things worse), and was going nuts. Now that he is away I have to say it has been nice not to worry. It is the one thing that makes me question wanting him back.<P>This probably sounds totally nuts, but he seems to be drinking more again, and for some reason I find that promising. I don't know if it's because I hope it means problems with the OW, or if I hope it means he's second guessing his decisions, or if I just hope that he will bottom out and we can then really fix things. Along with all the MB stuff I've been reading a lot of Al-Anon material and everything seems to be coming full circle for me. I think in the past month I have really been learning to let go and let God. For so long I tried everything to fight this and fix our relationship and it was only making things worse. As I focus more on myself I am finding much more peace. I am also learning a lot about his perceptions of me and the way I handled things. I have really changed a lot about me and I know it shows. My H keeps testing me, but I haven't faltered.<P>If I had my choice my H would end the A, he would come home and stop drinking, but I am finally accepting that I can't make any of it happen, only my H can do that. God willing he will, but whatever the result I know that this has all happened for a reason. I used to think it was to make my H finally realize what he was messing up. I now think it was to show me how lost I was becoming and that I can make a difference in my own life. I am not totally happy right now, but I am content and it's a start.<P>It's my H's weekend for the kids. He has no plans and although he hasn't come right out and asked, he has hinted that he'd like to hang out at the house. I guess I'll play it by ear. I have plans for tomorrow night anyway and it may do us some good.<P><BR>Keep me posted on your weekend with your daughter. I'll be thinking of you.<P>K

K<BR>You realy do express yourself well and I sence a calm in your writing. I too understand the power of "letting go" but this "let go and let God" has taken way to long for me to finally "get it".<BR>I didn't know you had gone to Ala-non, somehow I thought that you were only considering it. What about it made things worse?<P>Does he realize how his own childhood abuse has effected his life? This is so major and twists his view of parenting and relationships. Form your writing, it sounds like he has had no rolemodel for either. He may feel that four kids is overwhelming. He may be afraid of parenting. Does he ever open up about these things?<P> I believe you have compassion and understand of him yet I do understand your hesitation for having him back without a committment to change. <P>As I've said before, this is so much more complicated than just the A. He is also young. Isn't he about 32? That's not so old, believe me. If he has ADHD (you said you have thought about that) then he is about 29. It sounds like I'm trying to make excuses for him BUT, truly only an attempt to understand. <P>My D has ADD, and though she is 25, she sometimes is only 22. That's information I got from going to a seminar on the subject.

K<BR>I'm sorry for the abrupt ending of my last post. I had someone come to the door and had to leave.<P>We had our dinner last night and D came. I'm so PROUD of myself. I did not hover, that's something I used to do. I said nothing about anything, did not ask questions, I used to grill. After everyone left, she hung around and helped clean up. She said she was going to pay us back soon. I said nothing, went on to new topic. She said she is going to move (she lifes in a loft that is twice as much as she should be paying). I said nothing. Later I asked where she was going to move. She said she is looking into a building where a co-worker lives that is half as much. I made no judgement or comment, just OH. <P>Strangly enough it wasn't that hard. I did have to do some self talk, "her life is not my concern", "she has to make her own decisions", "make her own mistakes'. I'm OK and if feels good.<P>She was on the phone several times and I often wandered if any calls were MM but I didn't check her phone or ask. It's hardest for me to accept that this is her character and to me "character counts". But this is not my life to live, it's hers. <P>While all the above is on your thread, it realy is my own self talk. Thanks for the use of your space here.LOL<P>You said that "you hope your H doesn't do anything stupid" this refering to his drinking. He sound depressed. What do you think about that?<P>Has he said anything about the parenting class? I have friends who took a parenting class at the local college. They stayed in the class untill the kids were in school. I always wished I had joined them.<P>I do hope your weekend comes forth with hope.

Marry-<P>I am so proud of you. I am glad that your dinner went well. It sounds like you did great! I love talking to you because I know we are both learning and it's great to talk things through with someone who can relate.<P>My H ended up at a bar yesterday after his parenting/divorce class. I think I may have told you that already. Anyway it turned into an all day thing I guess and he kind of diappeared and called in sick to work etc. I learned this because his brother was in town and supposed to meet him and he never showed so they checked at his house, work, etc.<P>He called around 1:00 this afternoon to see about getting the kids. I asked how he was, he tried to cover things but when I told him his brother had called he knew he was busted. He told me he hates his life and he hates his job so he called in sick. He said he just hung out and thought about things so I asked him if he wanted to talk and he said no that it was his problem and he had to fix it, besides he had a plan. I told him I was a much better listener now and if he changed his mind I am here for him.<P>When he came to get the kids I wished him a Happy Sweetest Day and he said he didn't know it was. That surprised me, you would think the OW would acknowledge it. Who knows. He seemed more at ease at our house than he'd been on the phone. He was taking the oldest three to dinner at his mom's but coming back to watch movies at our house tonight. I have plans so I told him I'd get the baby to sleep and then would go. He said o.k., he'd probably spend the night. <P>I hope he'll open up, but who knows. He is so stubborn and full of pride. You're right, I think he is overwhelmed and doesn't have any real role models. He is a runner by nature, I just wish he could realize that running solves nothing and that no problems are insurmountable if you face them.<P>About Al-Anon, I haven't gone, but I talked to someone about it and got a bunch of literature. I'm a reader so I've gotten a lot out of it. I have found that it is a lot easier to detatch and let go while he is out of the house. I have to admit though, last night I was worried, not so much about what he was doing, just worried about him as a person and hoping he was o.k.<P>I'll let you know how tonight goes.<P>K

K<BR>Even though he was busted, I get the sence you didn't blast him for it. You ARE a better listener, and I believe you will get the chance.<P>Of the "Seven deadly sins" Pride is the worst of all. My D is also "Prideful". <P>I know that the chemistry of each Al-anon chapter is different so I don't know what your experience would be. The chapter I go to has about 25 to 35 people each week. I found that, for me, it was more powerful than any book or seminor. You don't have to speek. Thoes who do are speeking of hope. They tell where they have been in this process. Many times it's sharing enlightened stores of the week.<BR>When I first started, I felt everyone was speeking to me. Not in a bad way, but that I could relate so much. They stress how important detachment is and how hard, everyone seems to strugle with it. But with detachment comes a chance to look within and to grow.<P>I do hope you will try it. You sure have nothing to loose. People will not judge you for going. I have a fairly high profile in a relatively small town and I always feel safe.<P>Next time he says, "it's his problem". You might tell him that "you're there to be part of the solution and that you're working on not contributing to the problem". It may take awhile for him to feel safe. I know that our D does not feel safe yet.<P>The good news is that, you and I are better. <BR>We do want to be part of the solution, even if that means some hard realities.