As time slips by quickly and I find the summer barely more than a memory, I'm becoming secure with the relationship with my boyfriend (I really thought it was going to be a summer fling).<P>MONTHS have gone by and he's never yelled at me or called me names or threatened me or raised his voice or accused me ... I can't believe how good it feels to be in a relationship WITHOUT those things as part of <I>the norm</I>.<P>I had a big problem in the first months with bottling up my emotions, being afraid to let him know how strongly I felt, being worried I would "scare him off" and just plain being hurt by things that HE didn't even do to me, but I was afraid WOULD happen (paranoid that history would repeat itself).<P>Although I am no longer in counseling until I can figure out a way to swing the payments (my insurance no longer covers and I owe +$1K) I have been sharing the fears with a dear friend via email and getting my thoughts out that way. The more I write, the clearer things become. <I>Usually</I>.<P>Dating after divorce is hard. Dating after an abusive marriage brings up a whole new group of problems. I wouldn't mind hearing from some others here who have been in these shoes or are in them now, trying to find the more peaceful life that they know was meant for them.<P>I am going to share the emails that I sent to my friend in a reply. Some are <I>long</I>... I get wordy. ;} Maybe some of my words/situations/actions will be familiar to you. Maybe something will help you. Moving on is not as easy as I thought it would be. I really thought leaving would be the hardest, but once I made my break, THAT became the easiest thing I've done in the past year.

(friend),<P>I'm as afraid to admit to myself as much as anyone else that I'm in love. This was NOT in my plan!! Where is that independent free-spirited no-man-required woman that walked out on (ex)?! OH that's right, I haven't been without a boyfriend a DAY. I guess I'm more mad at myself for not being independent than I need to be. I suppose I could always be a bitter and lonely man-hater. What fun is that? :p<P>(beau) is not perfect. I am beyond that rose-colored-glasses phase. He has a short fuse (like me). How we have managed to not have a big fight yet is amazing. There are personality traits and flat-out differences of opinion that are going to cause us some strife, when they are addressed. They haven't so far because I have been way too passive. I know I need to be assertive and I've been holding off on acting "like a girlfriend" for too long. I know this isn't fair to him either, not speaking up when something bothers me. So far I've been able to justify that since we aren't "serious" it isn't my place to say something.<P>For instance I want to tell him that I don't want him smoking in the car when my kids are in it. Then I start to second guess myself. <I>Is it really a big deal? Are you comparing him to (ex)? Are you being too picky/bossy/b*tchy? Is he going to get grumpy when he wants a cig on a long car ride?</I> Why don't I have the guts to just say to him, "I would prefer that you don't smoke in the car when my kids are with us." What am I afraid is going to happen?<P>(By the way, sometimes I just keep writing and writing in hopes that the answer will present itself. I re-read what I wrote and wonder, "Is THAT what I'm thinking!?" LOL! I don't need you to address every question that I ask so much as I need to know that someone is 'listening'. I should really still be in therapy. *g*)<P>This morning I woke up next to him and thought THIS is what I want. I love to wake up in his arms. As I'm thinking these things, he mentioned something about wanting to go back to sleep "so he could wake up next to me again" ... I got caught by a surprised little laugh and confessed my thoughts were almost the same. THAT is one of those scary moments. Where you kinda wonder if the other person is thinking about the same serious stuff that you are, like what it would mean if we woke up next to each other every morning (living together) and is the other person as afraid of that kind of serious commitment as you are, etc. Then I wonder why I obsess about that kind of stuff because after all, he's a GUY and is probably only thinking about a morning quickie. *grin*<P>I shouldn't say things like that. It wasn't nice, or fair to him. When I'm upset with him (read: upset with myself for how I feel about him) I think of things about him that I don't like. Like I'm trying to convince myself that this relationship would never work. <I>(Why am I so afraid?)</I><P>I was very moody yesterday and spent most of the day mad at him, <I>even though he did nothing wrong</I>. I was upset because he didn't call me the night before (no, he wasn't supposed to, doesn't have to, didn't say he would, and has called me every single day except for maybe two or three, in the past few months!) and I was upset with him for denting his brand new truck (like he would WANT to damage a truck he's had for less than a month) and upset that he didn't tell me what's going on today (even though he didn't know either). This is his weekend to have his daughter, but he has to work today, so she's staying with me. My kids will be home soon. The thing is, his daughter's mom is going to be calling me <I>sometime</I> today because she needs to come pick her up for a party. <I>I don't know when.</I> But I can't really make any plans to do stuff with the kids because I don't know when she will call. So I'm annoyed because of it, but yesterday it was HIM I was annoyed at. When this really has to do with HER not letting him know what's going on, and wanting to have my phone number. When your boyfriend's daughter's mom is calling you, things are getting serious. I need to stop freaking out every time things look like they are getting more serious. Every time it happens, I want to push him away. The look in his eyes when he just looks at me and doesn't say a word scares the bejeebers outta me. Do I really think I'm not <I>worthy</I> of the kind of love I see? The day I had yesterday was a clear sign that I am not in any way "over" my depression ... just in remission. I'm afraid that when things get serious they will stop being fun, and I will become <I>that person</I> again. Hollow. Just going through the moves. Putting up with whatever it takes to avoid a fight. There's my answer ... why I have failed to be assertive ... I am afraid to see him mad at me.<P>In a sick way, I want to push him until he snaps so I can see what it looks like when he's mad at me. But, I have the feeling that our first fight would be our last fight, because I have NO willingness to put up with BS. I don't know if I could look at him the same way after seeing him mad. What a conflict avoider I have turned out to be! So much for (ex)'s claim that I pushed his buttons because I wanted to fight. Yeah, right.<p>[ October 18, 2001: Message edited by: NOT incapable of love ]

Well I talked with him today, about the smoking in the car, and some other things that had been bothering me, and went into why I thought I hadn't said anything before now, and everything went smoothly. He really is quite a guy. :)<P>It was sure scary though, not knowing how he would react. He couldn't have handled it better. He didn't get upset even when he thought I might be comparing him to (ex), and put some of my fears to rest about other issues I've failed to address until now. I think it will be easier to bring up when I'm not comfortable with something he does next time, because now he knows there are times I want to say something, but don't want to come off as a b*tch.<P>This was one of those days I wish we could have lain (?) layed (?) um, stayed in bed all day and snuggled ... but we had all three kids (my two and his one) and they tend to pair off and leave one out, causing one to come to us crying about every five minutes, and with that many in that age range someone is always hungry and someone always has to go to the bathroom and someone is always bored ... LOL ... can't wait for next weekend, Friday and Saturday nights we are ALONE together if all goes well (I hate to say it because something almost always comes up to foil my plans!!)

Found my spine. ;)<P>I sent him that email that I sent to you... about dreaming and all that mush. I also sent him the lyrics to "Love of My Life" song which had just played on the radio and almost made me cry. If he gets scared off because of how strongly I feel about him, so be it. I don't think that is what is going to happen, but if it does, better now than later.<P>We have a wedding to go to next weekend, a buddy of his is getting married. I am almost nauseous at the thought of going to a wedding and watching people take those vows, it was hard enough going to the two receptions I went to this summer. (Okay, the absolute worst is the father-daughter dance ... I didn't get that because my dad died the year before. It just wrecks me to see it because I feel like I was "cheated" out of it.) I went to a wedding with my rebound boyfriend this spring, and it was traumatic. Couldn't help but think of how (ex) broke those vows. Honor? Cherish? ... To be at one with (beau), when we both have major issues with marriage (or at least DID a few months ago) is going to be very emotional for me. I don't want to talk about forever, heck I usually don't want to talk about the next month because it scares me to think about the future, but the more I am with him, the more I want to be with him. I am still not ready to ask him if he feels that way about me, but he's talked about things "we" may do this winter, spring and next summer enough that I feel he plans this will last a while at least. Very early on, I asked if there was anything I could do that would scare him off, and the ONLY thing he told me was if I started talking marriage. Which I don't want. Not now, not soon, and what I usually tell people who question me about it is "ask me in ten or twenty years".<P>A wedding, no. Forever? Yes. I think I want forever with him. I don't want to live together ... yet. I do want to see him A LOT more than I do now. Which if I'm patient, should happen this winter when he's laid off work.<P>Tomorrow is five months since he walked back into my life. Around five-six months are how long my longest relationships, besides my marriage, have ever lasted. And we haven't fought once. It feels much more like a beginning than an ending. I know I haven't been away from (ex) long enough to go into anything serious without a lot of baggage, and I brought this up today too. I told him I need to work on being assertive, that I've had eight years of biting my tongue, being afraid to start a fight. He reassured me that he wasn't going to yell at me for having a different opinion than him. Then he joked about me 'coming around' to seeing things his way. ;)<P>I tell you, if things don't work out, I'm going to be very, very disappointed. Not devastated, not despondent; but it will be like the end of a wonderful dream. This has been so much like a fairy tale I've been afraid to believe my life is really my own, for fear I might jinx it and wake up back in married-to-(ex)-hell. I wake up every morning, look around and grin like an idiot. :P

(friend), <P>Well I know he checked his email because he read it while he was online chatting with me! And he didn't get scared away ... just teased me a little for being a sap. Then proceeded to get mushy himself in our chat!! Started daydreaming together about taking a trip to Hawaii and HE started describing a beach at sunset ...<P>I really need to stop worrying so much. He actually told me that I make him very happy. It's one thing when you assume someone is happy with you because they are sticking around, but when they actually 'say' it to ya ... <BR> <BR>Tomorrow is our "date night" ... so I'll see him soon. (Yeah, because yesterday was sooooo long ago! LOL) You know, I didn't think I was capable of being this happy - letting my past fade to the extent that I could just LOVE deeply and fiercely and with reckless abandon. The last five months have been a non-stop roller coaster of emotion. I don't even get as upset when I have to talk to (ex) now, and he is still being difficult. Tonight when I talked to him, I was calm and even kind. I know it caught him off guard but the only way we are going to reach a point where we are civil to each other is if I show him and continue to show him consideration and respect even if it is not earned. He will not take the first step, and is suspicious of me every time I offer a compromise. It's really hard, but I won't let him be a stressor in my life. Things are just going too well.

You sound so happy now--I am so happy for you. I'm sure coming out of an abusive marriage is going to make you have some doubts--but know that you deserve to be in the type of relationship you are in now. You deserve to be happy and loved--you are a good person. This person was your high school sweetheart--sounds so nice. Maybe the timing was just wrong in the past.<P>I kind of feel almost the same--except I am not divorced. Been having problems just this past summer--I have tried to make so many changes in myself, gone to counseling, etc.--but H is the one who doesn't seem to be trying. Things did seem to go a little better the last few weeks (would've been 7 wks this past weekend)--but we don't talk about "us". He doesn't communicate. He was the one saying he didn't think he was happy anymore. As time has gone by, I am realizing that maybe I wasn't real happy either--my emotional needs are not being met. I still love him and want to work things out--but it is getting so frustrating.<BR>(no affairs or abuse) Anyway--we got in an agrument this past weekend. I think I am getting to the point I just want to give up on the marriage. <BR>Since the end of Aug., have been emailing and talking on the phone to my old boyfriend from high school. I know I've been doing the EA thing--but I can tell him anything and he can talk to me easily also. I know he is fulfilling some of my emotional needs now, and had in the past--suppose that is why have the feelings I do. I have admitted my feelings to him, and he feels the same. We met for the 1st time in 16 yrs. a few days ago. He has a couple of kids--but not married. He had the kids with him--which was probably good--just visited for a couple hours--then he called me and we talked for a long while on the phone. He looks a lot like did in high school. I feel I look a lot different--gained the weight--but he has given me nothing but compliments on how I looked. My husband hasn't even said anything to me about losing 20+ lbs. that I lost in July. So, needless to say, after meeting we didn't scare each other away. I tried a week and a half ago to kind of break things off with him--then cried all night. Then I emailed him the next morning--and the guy was like fine, no problem, he knows I am going thru a tough emotional time-apology accepted. <BR>My husband will always be first--but I'm not sure how long I can wait for him to figure out what he wants. I truly believe if I do end up divorced--this guy and I would have a good chance at a relationship. (he never got over his first real love--me) So, is this a possible second chance for us--or am I playing with fire. I know it is wrong--but it feels so right. I know I would never start anything too serious with this guy till I am divorced. I also know that my feelings toward the marriage may change next week--deep down I still want it to work out--but now if it doesn't--not quite so scared.<P>Okay--sorry to ramble--Just so happy for your happiness--you deserve it.

Not Incapable...<P>Do you understand when to yes, or when to say to something??<P>I have struggled with some of these same things..not the smoking..but w/ drinking..<P>I want the choice to say when I want to be around it or not..like..<P>Please do not come over to see me when you've been drinking..and I feel this way because..I don't want it forced on me..like for example..a friend of mine was going fishing..<BR>and they were going to be drinking..so I just said, I understand that your going to be drinking today, and thats okay, but please don't come over until you've sobered up, because I don't care to be around it..<P>Now if I know that there is going to be drinking when I'm invited to go some place..then it's my choice to say..Okay, I'll go or No, I don't want to go..you can go if you'd like..but, I just don't care to be around alot of drunks today..<P>They are given the choice to go or not..and you are free to go or not..<P>And it's not necessarily Therapy that you need at this point..do you have any abuse shelters in your areas?? or even contact some local churches and see if they have "support"<BR>groups..that you can go to..That's where I am at..I don't need the therapy..I just need the support of others to learn how to voice my opinion..in a safe non-threatening enviroment..with out the fear that I am going to be verbally beaten down for feeling the way I do..<P>LOL...About the B/f's ex calling you...<BR>I've had that happen to..w/ my friend..she called here looking for him..He doesn't live here..so I thought it was strange..and she was like..well, when he gets there, and I calmly explained to her that he doesn't live here, and we don't spend every day together..<BR>and I don't know if I was going to be seeing him that day..but, if I do see him, I will gladly pass on the message onto him that she was trying to reach him..but that she should also try calling him at work because he may still be there..she was like..Okay thank you..I think that it took her off guard him not being here, as it did me her calling here..because the other women he has seen since their divorce he was there ALL the time..but I have made it clear that I don't want him here all the time..I need time for myself, my kids, and other activities without him..just as He does..<P>If you haven't read the book Boundries..DO!!!<BR>it helped me to see where I need to work on me..<P>As I was saying about the support groups..I know that some of the churches <BR>here have like a 13 week training union class<BR>where they use the Boundries book and workbook, and learn together..and support each other..and teach each other how to set safe boundries..which is what it sounds like you need to learn to do..I know I am still learning.. <P>It's wonderful to know that I actually do have choices..and I can make them on my own..without having to fear getting yelled at<BR>or threatened that just because I want to go do something be it go to church, go to a support group, or go out w/ a group of girlfriends..that someone is not going to go off in a rage yelling at me IF YOU DO THAT IT JUST MEANS YOU WANT TO BE SINGLE!!! (there for having the underlying threat that if I do go..that he will leave) which he has done..before because I went to church..When I got home..he was gone--left to go back out of town to work..and called me later drunk raging at me because I went..and I have come to realize that I hey if you want to leave just because I want to go out and do things and you don't want to go..well then leave..<BR>but I shouldn't have to stop living my life because you don't want one and don't want to be a part of mine, and don't want to make one with me..<P>But, call around and see if you can find a support group..

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by helpla:<BR><STRONG>I still love him and want to work things out--<BR><I>Since the end of Aug., have been emailing and talking on the phone to my old boyfriend from high school.</I><BR>My husband will always be first--but I'm not sure how long I can wait for him to figure out what he wants.<BR><I>So, is this a possible second chance for us--or am I playing with fire.</I><BR></STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well, you're playing with fire! It sounds kinda like my EA (close to two years ago) except I never met him in person ... distance saw to that ... but we chatted constantly, daily, for months ... both in rocky spots in our marriages. I cried like a baby when I knew I had to end it in order to give 120% to a last chance for my marriage. Oh, last year I gave my EVERYTHING to try and make it work. But you can't make a person stop being abusive, and you don't have to live with abuse. (That last statement, I didn't believe myself, until after I left.)<P>I never tried to contact my high school sweetheart during my marriage ... I KNEW that if HE had feelings for me he would be the ONE person that I would leave my husband for, and I worked hard enough on the marriage to not just let that happen. But I did think of him often when things were bad, wondering if I had been meant to be with him instead of my husband, what life would be like ... then when the fantasy got too happy, the grips of depression brought me back to my own life and I told myself "what would HE want with ME"? If I had only known ... but every wrong turn in my path has brought me HERE where I am soooooo glad to be.<P>I know it feels sooooo good to know you are still wanted by someone else ... but you know you will have to give up that person entirely if you want to make a real effort at saving your marriage. The guy I had the EA with ... that at one time I was SO emotionally involved with that I thought we might actually be "meant to be together" ... we chat occasionally but now I know that his role in my life was to make me realize I deserved a life without the abuse.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ThornedRose:<BR><STRONG>I don't need the therapy..I just need the support of others to learn how to voice my opinion..in a safe non-threatening enviroment..<BR><I>some of the churches here have like a 13 week training union class where they use the Boundries book and workbook, and learn together..and support each other..and teach each other how to set safe boundries..</I><BR>But, call around and see if you can find a support group..</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I will have to look into that. I am having problems being assertive because I don't want it to be taken the wrong way ... when I DO assert myself, I seem to convey the wrong message. I need to find the middle ground. ;}<p>[ October 19, 2001: Message edited by: NOT incapable of love ]

You know what I have been going through. Your posts make me realize not to give up. To keep on trying that love is there it's just hiding from me right now. No, actually I did find love again it just wasn't meant to be right now. I guess I knew that going in but I was just to high on the feeling to face reality. But you know thats ok because I learned that," hey I've still got it baby!"<P>There are so many here who frown on relationships after the divorce. I mean I've waited a year. Sure there is issues but time isn't going to take them away only the love and the faithfulness of a new partner will do that. <P>Anyway I'm really happy for you!!!!<P><BR>JIll

It is absolutely the scariest thing in the world to have another relationship - -always waiting for the other shoe to drop when you voice and opinion -- and then -- it doesn't.<P>WOW, eh?<P>My H says he sees it in my face. I'm talking, and something comes up and I back up (even if sitting next to him on the couch) and scrunch up my face -- waiting -- waiting for him to say, "you're an idiot" or "what the he!! does that mean" or "don't talk like that" or... or... well... you know the drill.<P>I know that I was suppose to wait two years after the divorce. I know that in my case, I didn't even wait until the divorce was final to meet my H. Ya know, I am so tired of beating myself up, feeling guilty, explaining...<P>I just want to be "us" ... and I pray, PRAY TO GOD, that we will be "us" for the rest of our lives. Lord knows we deserve it, want it, and are willing to work at it.<P>And yet... this still small voice whispers...<P>"what the hell are you talking about?"

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nyneve:<BR><STRONG>It is absolutely the scariest thing in the world to have another relationship - -always waiting for the other shoe to drop when you voice and opinion</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Oh, yeah. I can relate completely.<P>It is hard to give him the benefit of the doubt that he deserves. I'm always expecting the worst ...<P>It is scary to trust, and one of the hardest things I'm learning to do again.