I revised and gave my H the letter I wrote this morning. It included the lyrics to "Despardo" by the Eagles, because I heard that on the radio Monday and was struck hard with the reality of the words.<BR>I also enclosed a copy of a post I printed out from the recovery board. It was posted under "the funny thing about marriage"<P>It was really a similar story to ours and I wanted him to know there was hope for recovery if he could just get past the fear of working on our relationship.<P>See, I don't think that the OW is what is keeping him away. I think he realizes that was not a permenant solution and that he wants to come home. What he doesn't know how to do is deal with the fear. He is depressed and not thinking clearly. He is numb most of the time, still not eating or sleeping well. He is afraid I am not capable of forgiving or forgetting and that I will throw it up in his face constantly. He thinks things will go back to how they were with me caring more about work than him and him feeling anger and resentment towards me but not able to express it.<P>I have tried to explain that counseling would help us work through all these things and that I've learned so much from MB principles and reading. He has also read HNHN and SAA. I don't know how much sunk in because he still says that "somethings are too big to be forgiven for" I guess he has to forgive himself too for breaking our vows, before he can believe that I can let it go. <P>Who knows, I just wanted to post an update.<P>Lynn<P>I posted the above under PlanA/Plan B board but I re-read it when I copied it here and I still am making excuses for him. Why do I do that? Is there any help for me???<P> [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] pp

Geez, Am I so far in the fog myself that no one has anything to say. Tell me I'm wrong, tell me I'm right, tell me to GO jump or that I'm doing ok just hanging here, but please tell me something. I'm having a bad day. <P>Lynn

A quick one as I am going to work...<P>we are reconciled, my H still wont talk about it. I wanted to, for "closure"<P>Just Learning has been my personal counselor through this all. He said something once that changed my whole outlook on my H.<P>Why would he want to talk about it? To go to counceling? To reminded of what am A** he was? He told me to see what is here and now, and to give my H time and patience. It took him about 2-3 months to come out of withdrawl, but he DID.<P>Drop the councelling, drop the talks about "issues", and make it a SAFE place for him to come home to. Everything will work out in its due time my dear.<P>For now, do the best Plan A of your life.<P>Your marraige is hindering on it. Tell him to come home and love him to pieces w/o ANY questions asked or bringing up the past. <P>You dont own the past, but your DO have a stake in your future.<P>I am usually on Recovery board, and will be back late tonight.<P>Dara

Pleaser<BR>What I see is this.<BR>The BS writes this letter, not once but, so many times they can't count. You put your heart and soul into it with every fiber of your being, even words to songs,Yet the WS may not read this material in the same manor that it was written. I've read several of you posts and many times your expectatiions are not met. this is what I fear for you right now. You envision one thing and he has a hole other idea of what he is going to do with it. <BR>Pleaser, have you read some of the material on this sight, at the top of the home page? I hear you talk about how you ask him about the relationship and OW and he seems to let you down. Many do come around, however it does seem that this happens when the BS lets go, ie. no calling, no talk of OW or relationship, apearing to be doing fine or moving on. <BR>It just seems that maybe a realy strict Plan B, I mean realy strict!!!!!!!!!!!!!Might make him to think twice. But this kind of Plan B as with anything else in this whole mess takes TIME.<BR>I have to say that IT breaks my heart sometimes when I read your posts and your are once again "Let Down". <BR>These A's are not a personal afront against you, but many times a strugle within the WS themselves.<BR>I wish I could tell you more, there are people here who are so wise and just know what to say and what to do. I do hope that someone gives you the right advise, in the end you have to do what you feel is right.

I've done all the things you said for 6 months. I wrote the tough love letter and tried very hard to "just be friends" making him feel comfortable around me. However, he still is living with OW and refuses to move. Why should he be allowed to treat me with no respect for our marriage and I'm supposed to walk around like nothing is wrong. <P>I firmly believe in Plan A but with limits. I came to a place of peace within myself about divorcing him. It was what he wanted and I had no choice in the matter. He is not coming home any time soon and my life is totally in limbo. I am consumed with thoughts of him and I finally had enough and decided my life was important too and that I couldn't allow him to have his cake and eat it too forever. It was 6 months after he moved out that I filed for divorce. I told him a week before I did it that I had come to that point. I asked him the AM of the appt if anything had changed. No comment and no answer. He is not ready to deal with this and I was ruining my life and my children's life by allowing him to think I would always be there for him. <P>He is a grown man and it is about time he realizes the consequences of his actions. I'm not trying to punish him. I'm just trying to protect myself from any more pain and disappointment,<P>He treats me like his best buddy. He gives me hope about getting back together then pulls the rug out from under me. I just can't take it anymore.<P>I have a family to raise, 2 dogs, 2 turtles, 1 cat who thinks he is King of the Land, 4 acres and a big older home to deal with.<P>I wanted my marriage to work. I admitted where I went wrong and made efforts to change those things. In fact the things that broke us apart no longer exist. I was willing to do anything. He just doesn't want to try. <P>Why should he look at what an A$$ he is? Because it has changed him completely. The man I married would never do the things he is doing. He needs to accept that he needs help and that he is pushing away the people who love him most.<P>>>>>CLUNK>>>> That was me getting off my soapbox. Sorry for the vent!!!<P>Lynn

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by peoplepleaser:<BR><STRONG>I have tried to explain that counseling would help us work through all these things and that I've learned so much from MB principles and reading. He has also read HNHN and SAA. I don't know how much sunk in because he still says that "somethings are too big to be forgiven for" I guess he has to forgive himself too for breaking our vows, before he can believe that I can let it go. <P></STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Lynn,<P>You are making some of the same mistakes that I did, and I'm afraid you will have the same fate (my marriage ended) so please, listen carefully:<P>DO NOT TRY TO EDUCATE YOUR H.<P>I did this, and Lord knows my *heart* was in the right place. I wanted to share, to show him all this *wonderful* stuff I'd found. He thought it was pushy, manipulative and passive/agressive.<P>Yes, he has to fogive himself... and you need to give him time and space (not physical space, emotional space) to do that.<P>So, step back, love him (of course! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]), let him know you love him and are waiting in a non-LB way (no more letters right now) and post here...<P>See what God can do to his heart. Maybe pray that someone who isn't you will be sent to teach him. <P>I hope none of this hurts you in any way, it is not my intention at all... I just see myself in you, and I know what I've gone through... it hasn't been fun, easy, or healthy, at all.

thanks Sheryl and Marry<P>I appreciate the support. I didn't want to really give him the latest letter. I did take out a few things as suggested by you guys on this board but overall the letter said " I love you, come home" AND " I'm done, leave me the HE(( alone. "<P>I asked him today if the letters helped or hurt. He said he really liked to get my letters and that he often re-read them. I told him I had written another letter but wasn't sure if I should give it to him. He said that if I went to all the trouble to write it, that he wanted to read it. <P>I'm just at my wits end. I know I shouldn't be trying to educate him, but the little bit that he does say is usually about how confused he is and how he wishes someone could make sense of how he feels. I could be mis-reading him but he seems to want me to force him to look at these issues.<P>I just don't know anymore. I really needed to give him the letter because he was not respecting my wishes about no contact. As I said in other posts, he has made a point to find me each morning and tell me a story or bring me a candy bar, picture or something.<P>He doesn't realize how much he hurts me when he treats me like his wife but leaves to go home to her. I know marriage is a big responsibility. so is having a house and land to maintain and children to raise. It is much easier to run away than to fight but what reward will he have in the end????<P>PP

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by peoplepleaser:<BR><STRONG><BR>I really needed to give him the letter because he was not respecting my wishes about no contact. </STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Okay... <deep breath> Let me tell you something about Plan A that you may not know. <P>Yes, we're told that true recovery cannot occur until the affair is over - NO CONTACT.<P>However, as you begin Plan A, you are NOT *in* recovery, you are trying to win your spouse back to you. You can expect that they will <B>continue</B> the affair while you are in the beginning stages. This "stage" can go on for many months, and in fact, if you will find and read Lostva/Lori's postings, she was the sweetiest darned wife Robert could ask for, WHILE he continued to see the OW on a daily basis.<P>I know it hurts -- I know it sux -- I also know that I did everything backasswards and lost my marriage, and indeed, the life I was leading with my family for 20 years.<P>Regrets suck. I don't want you to have any.

Hi Lynn,<P>(((((((((((Lynn)))))))))))))<P>I would give him the letter, but not the words to Desperado or the post. But you must give him the letter for yourself, not with any expectations that it will bring him home. That leads to disappointment, and it is too hard to be constantly rejected.<P>I am in the process of writing my Plan B letter...and I feel GOOD about giving it to him. I am giving myself peace, I am letting him know that I know all about OW, and I won't be available. It just makes me feel stronger. It is for me...I don't even expect him to respond...why should he admit he's an a**?<P>I just want you to know I have been keeping up, not posting a lot lately, but I anm thinking of you.<P>Keep your head high...you have tried so, so hard.<P>love and light,<P>Jacky

I did the best Plan A I could for 9 months, 2 before he moved out and 7 after. I rarely LB'd unless telling him how much I missed him and loved him was a LB. I've cooked for him, made love with him(prior to d-day) and put my life on hold to make sure I was available IF he needed anything. <P>He moved in with OW( who he says he didn't know at the time, he was just a boarder) at the end of May. He had been gone 2 months then and moved from his mom's to HER house in secret while I was at the beach with the kids. <P>He wouldn't tell his parents or me where he was living and he wouldn't get a phone so we could contact him. He went for days at the time without calling or even checking on the kids. I had two bouts with the flu and one incident with a fishing hook that I needed him and he wasn't here for me.<P>I tried, I really tried. I deserve better. I love him but at what cost. I know it is my marriage and should not be taken lightly but there are just some things that violate my values to the point that I can't allow them to continue. Sharing my H with OW is one of those things. I've done it for 5 months now and I don't have the strength anymore. I would like to survive this experience with a shred of dignity left.<P>I hate these mood swings. I have to get the idea out of my head that I can do something to change his mind. At some point, I had to give up. <P>Sort of like the dixie chicks song that says "somebody tell my head to tell my heart, that I'm better off without you...."<P>I think I'm going nuts. I've always been strong and independent but I am unsure of everything I say do or think now. I am dealing with my depression but can't get over these helpless feelings.<P>I've got to go to bed. Since I told my H in the letter I would do my best to make sure kids were dressed and ready when he got here in the mornings, I better do it. I might as well start acting like I grew a spine even if I didn't. <P>Goodnight all & God Bless<P>Go Braves!<P>Lynn

I hear you Lynn, and I am sorry for your pain.<P>((((((((((Lynn))))))))))

Ok, when is enough enough. I told my H last Sat that I needed to stop contact with him, I wrote him a letter that said at least twice that I would like his cooperation in limiting contact. <P>This morning he calls and says he needs to stay at work to catch the lady about putting the kids on his insurance. He wants to know if I will take kids to school. I said, sure no problem.<P>Then he proceeds to tell me all about how cold it is and how I need to take a jacket with me and the weather report for tomorrow, etc. He asked if I had packed for the kids. I said yes. He said, I'll talk to you this afternoon when I come by to get their stuff.<P>NO, NO, NO!!!! What part of NO doesn't he understand? Now I have to stay away from my own home this afternoon just to avoid him. <P>Friday is the only day I get off work early(1pm) and I like to get stuff done at home so Sat is free. <P>What is it going to take to convince him that I want to be left alone?<P>Any suggestions from Plan B'ers whose WS just couldn't get the message????<P>HELP!!!!!!<P>Lynn

Lynn,<P>As rude as it sounds, as soon as he started on his stuff, I think you should have said that you had to go, hung up the phome without giving him time to reply, and then taken it off the hook so he couldn't call back. You are in Plan B which means meeting none of his needs, and that includes conversation and sympathy.<P>I think he knows you are too nice and he is playing on it. He is in a deep fog...so much he doesn't even HEAR you...so your actions will have to be big.<P>Is it necessary for him to take the kids to school? I would be limiting the time I had to deal with him to a necessary minimum...and Mb does suggest that during visitation (which this is not, btw, it is a way to keep his foot in the door) you do not see him at all. This can be achieved by having a place to drop the kids so he can pick them up. Anyway, only a suggestion.<P>As to this afternoon, he will still be there when you get back, won't he, as he will drop the kids off, so they will need looking after, or do I have it wrong?<P>Tell me, what did you tell him when he said he was coming around? Yes? Perhaps you need to call and tell him you don't want to talk to him, you explained that in your letters, and you have things to do. And then hang up...don't wait for him to agree...he may not want to.<P>Tough love, hon!<P>Love and light,<P>Jacky

Jacky,<P>This is his weekend with the kids so he shouldn't bring them back until Sunday morning.<P>I was hoping he would just get their stuff when he took them to school so he wouldn't have to come back by the house. I thought about leaving the bag on the deck outside but changed my mind. <P>I have thought about asking him not to take them to school everyday. In fact, I mentioned this during our conversation Saturday that maybe he could just do 3 days a week now that he is seeing them every other weekend. I also suggested that he not come in, that he just wait outside so he wouldn't be able to talk to me. He said he wanted to talk to me, that he didn't want to stay away.<P>What gives with this man? It's not like his is asking me to ignore his tobacco habit or his stinky feet, he expects me to block out that he is or was having sex with another woman!!!!<P>Yes, he is definately playing on my weakness. He knows I love to talk, especially to him. he knows it is very hard for me to stay mad at him no matter what. <P>I give up. I will probably go home around 1 then leave around 3 so I can avoid him. I've never been good at saying no so it is best that I don't put myself in a vunerable situation. <P>Why are the courts so backed up. I wish my hearing was on 10-28 not 11-28....... I'm ready to get this over with.<P>PP

Pleaser<BR>You should read some of your past post and then read this one all the way through. <BR>You are getting stronger by the minute!!!!!!!!!!<BR> I just read this post all the way through and I could not believe what I read. Each time you wrote you got stronger!<BR>REALLY, You know what you have to do, You know what your weekness are, and your resolve is different. I can feel it, Can you?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by peoplepleaser:<BR><STRONG>Why are the courts so backed up. I wish my hearing was on 10-28 not 11-28....... I'm ready to get this over with.<P>PP</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>What do you expect to be different when the divorce is final?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I told my H last Sat that I needed to stop contact with him, I wrote him a letter that said at least twice that I would like his cooperation in limiting contact. <P>This morning he calls and says he needs to stay at work to catch the lady about putting the kids on his insurance. He wants to know if I will take kids to school. I said, sure no problem.<P>Then he proceeds to tell me all about how cold it is and how I need to take a jacket with me and the weather report for tomorrow, etc. He asked if I had packed for the kids. I said yes. He said, I'll talk to you this afternoon when I come by to get their stuff.<P>NO, NO, NO!!!! What part of NO doesn't he understand?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You need to make YOU not have contact with him. If he calls just say, “Please read the Plan B letter again. Goodbye”<P>Do not let him go on about anything. Don‘t write him another letter to explain Plan B. <B>JUST SAY NO!</B>

Hi Lynn...<P>Sorry, I've been outta the country for the past week (plus)... so I've not been able to track. Now, I'm back and the board looks pretty different so I'm going to have to navigate a bit here...<P>So, Lynn... are you seeing a counselor to help you with this stuff? Are you still going to church? Where are you on all of this stuff...? I'm concerned when you say you "have no choice" but to file for this divorce...<P>I can TOTALLY relate to this "get close to me" / "stay away from me" behavior of your H. Drives me nuts too. <P>Anyway, I know you need to get "on" with your life but I'm not sure that just because you divorce, that that will be the panacea you're looking for. In fact, going through with the divorce may just add additional problems... How are you children doing anyhow? No, I don't think you need to "take" this cr@p either... but do you think divorce is going to make the way he treats you go away? Do you need the divorce to stand on your own? Could you not just do that without the divorce?<P>Oh, I'm asking all these dumb questions because I've paralled with your feelings so much and I've been asking them myself.<P>Feel free to completely ignore these questions... I just want to see you get healthy for yourself and not rely on the divorce as a stepping stone to get that process started as I don't think it's any part of that... Take care.<P>Nicole

Chris <P>I think I'm waiting on my freedom. Freedom to be a single person, not just be forced to be one. I wanted my H, I needed him but since that opportunity has been taken away from me, I need to move on. <P>No I'm not sure how to do that, but right now any financial decision I need to make, such as re-financing the house, selling off part of the land, etc are on hold. I feel like he is taking away my ability to do things for myself because I still want him so badly in my life. <P>I really don't know. That's the truth. I want to show him that I can go on and date other people, have a life, etc but until he is out of mine, I can't. I have been hoping he would see the finality of the divorce and it would knock some sense into him.. Stupid I know, it's just how I feel. I didn't file to get a reaction from him. I couldn't take the limbo anymore. I don't feel right about "going out" even as friends with another guy while I'm still married. I really want a friend right now. Someone to meet some of my needs. I know it is too soon and I will have to guard my heart from re-bound relationships.<P>I guess my biggest problem is that I lost my best friends due to a major blowup at work where they all walked out without notice leaving me holding the bag. I lost my trust in people last December, and then in January I lost my trust in my H. I don't have any friends left. I know people through church and work but they are all married and have lives of their own. I don't want to be the third wheel. I don't want my mom to think she has to entertain me every other weekend when H has the kids. <P>I just hate all of this. Sorry this doesn't make any sense. I'm waiting on H to bring kids back and I'm a bit nervous. Hopefully he will not try to talk to me. I haven't learned the fine art of telling him to leave me alone. He thinks I'm just being hateful. I am fighting the urge to educate him. I am weak and lonely. I'm almost deseparate to talk to someone other than my mom. <P>I would like to have an older male friend who understands these emotions but who is not an emotional attachment candidate. <P>I'm sorry for babbling. Just feeling lost right now. Poor self-esteem and lack of faith in mankind are a bad combination.<P>PP

nichole,<P>Sorry earlier that I didn't say thanks for replying. When I started the post to Chris, I intended to include a section in response to you.<P>THen I got kind of upset trying to answer the question about why divorce makes a differnce and I didn't finish my post.<P>H finally brought kids home at 3 today and I stayed upstairs. He asked me to look at a jacket he bought son. I said it was fine. Then I said, kids come tell your Dad bye, he has to go. I went upstairs. He stayed about 2-3 minutes and left. I guess that was ok. He tried to get me to talk about making lunch, etc, when I looked briefly at the jacket but I didn't say anything.<P>I think he got the message. <P>Sorry I'm in such a poor mood today. I hope things are going better for others here in the forum. I'll check in later tonight.<P>Lynn

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by peoplepleaser:<BR><STRONG>I'm sorry for babbling. Just feeling lost right now. Poor self-esteem and lack of faith in mankind are a bad combination</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Babble away. That’s what we are here for.