Hi,<P>I went and read your posts, and I am very concerned. You sound very angry and bitter.<P>You are talking about how much better you are but you are still needing to lay blame.<BR>Which is normal. But I do think it is coloring your response to other people.<P>I noticed when you responded to lookingforanswers, that you really held out no hope for him with his marriage.<P>Do you need to talk? There are a lot of people here that will help you with your recovery, also helping you to see what you might have done differently, so you don't repeat your mistakes.<P>-Kat-

I am bitter. Bitter at the adictions that ended this marriage. But it's not colouring my responses to people.<P>That was the best answer for lookingforanswers that I believed I could give. He was looking for advice and that was the best advice I could give him. Sometimes giving somebody false hope is unhelpful in the long run. From what he described he was in an emotionally abusive situation with his wife where he was being forced to apologise for reacting to her infidelity so she wouldn't have to leave him.<P>Ultimately it's his decision. He can't help the type of work which he has. I don't think that's the reason for the infidelity. The way his wife was being unfaithful was kind of focussed on getting sex with strangers and it didn't sound like she was looking to get her emotional needs met. <P>That's why Lookingforanswers needs to accept the reality of the situation and make either a decision to stay but accepting his wife as she is or move on if he can't. It's ultimately his decision and whatever decision he makes no one can judge him on that. <P>I sensed that he wrote the message because he was mixed up which is understandable in his case and wanted people's views. He can absolutely stay in the marriage if he thinks it's the best thing to do but he has to accept that his wife is less loyal than he is and accept her as she is, warts and all. <P>MsAnna.

MsAnna,<P>Again, I disagree with you, this forum is really designed to give people support, and where there is Life there is hope.<P>He is not ready to leave his marriage yet, You could tell by his replys that he wanted to make it work.<P>There is always hope, and we all have to try and see where we might have had some responsibility in what happened in our marriage.<P>And **if** his wife is needing him home then maybe he needs to consider a carreer change or asking for a home based assignment.<P>Sometimes to save our marriages we have to make some drastic changes in our own private little worlds.<P>I felt you gave him no encouragement in your response, and I feel your bitterness is running over in your responses. <P>Maybe you need a little counseling to help you with some of your anger issues. This is not ment as an attack just as my opinion.<P>-Kat-

Kat, <P>I think your problem is that you do not agree with my answer to lookingforanswers. I think you are being offensive in implying that my answer to him was thoughtless and based on my 'anger' to my X. I don't feel you have the right to say that. <P>And you have not really read what I have said. What do you mean by my denying him hope? I said that he can take his wife back but he should be realistic about the situation so that he is not hurt over and over again because he's got to realise that he made the decision to go back even though he knew that she had betrayed him. In fact IMHO I think it can be harmful to say to someone, everything will be all right dear, just go back if that's what you want. But if that's what your take on it is then go ahead post your reply. Lookingforanswers was looking for ANSWERS, if he was looking for ONE type of answer he would have said so. <P>Of course he wants to save the marriage! But I think reading between the lines he wants to save it but without the risk of having to undergo the pain of infidelity again. Sometimes you have to accept the fact that you married somebody who has less committment to a marriage than you and that could mean that person is likely to cheat at some point in the future and that has nothing to do with the sort of person you are. Some people can accept that and some people can't. What makes you think he wasn't helped by my reply? He was is in a dilemma because of the past infidelity and he doesn't want to be hurt again. How can you give somebody a reassurance like that everything will turn out OK, when he's been cheated on before? I think he posted because he had run out of HOPE! Giving somebody a rosy picture that cushions him from reality could be more hurtful to him in the long run because he could get hurt again! <P>What makes you think that he can't leave and find himself somebody better? What makes you think that it's helpful to encourage somebody to waste his time in a relationship in which he is cheated on over and over again? That's my take on it. If you can't live with infidelity then you should accept that and move on. You're entitled to your opinion but I resent you implying that I am giving biased advice because I am 'bitter and angry' and so screwed up I need professional counselling because I am spewing out hatred at everyone. What a laugh!<P>I responded to him because of the hurt I felt in his e-mail and because I have been through the same experience I replied. I don't hear any feedback from lookingforanswers so I really don't understand what your problem is. He might have been very helped by my reply. I don't think you can speak on his behalf. <P>Sometimes people react badly and attack when somebody says something they know is true deep in their hearts but they don't want to hear it. I think that's why you have focussed your messages implying mental instability to me. Yes, I admit I am probably not the most mentally stable person right now but then again I think most of the people posting on this site aren't. There's no need for sly innuendoes implying I am unstable mentally , innuendoes bathed in <BR>seemingly kind and helpful blandishments like advising counselling. <BR>Who doesn't need counselling? Go and take your own advice yourself please. That's a very cheap attack. <P>On the subject of implications and innuendoes I've got one for you:<BR>I think I've touched a sore spot in your life because you are worried your H is having an affair and you are scared to face the reality of confronting that issue. So that's why you've taken special offence at my postings. <P>It's your life and it's lookingforanswers' life<BR>too. If he doesn't have a problem with my answer then why should you? I wasn't answering a question from you; why do you get involved in the correspondence between two people? I think YOU have serious problems yourself, like denial. <P>As for me, I have faced the issue.<BR>I am healing in my own way, it's all just very fresh but I am very positive about the whole thing. I have my down days but I think because I have a tendency to blame myself for everything that goes wrong I try not to do that because there are enough books and people who blame the woman for infidelity. I decided to face the infidelity and that's what our last fight was about: he wouldn't admit to it although all his friends told me about it. There you go, denial but in the opposite way. My H and I have decided to be friends. So I am just leaving it at that. I don't want any hard feelings and neither does he. By getting engaged he has effectively given our marriage no chance. So be it. We are talking a lttle bit about what happpened but because he is an alcoholic we can't really discuss things honestly. Life goes on. I have started to go out with friends and am making alot of big decisions about the direction of my life so all of that's keeping me very busy. MsAnna.

MsAnna,<P>I am really not trying to carry on an arguement with you. I am not trying to hurt you. Again I state the I hear a lot of pain in your letters as well as frustration, anger and bitterness.<P>Of course you are bitter over what has happened in your life, most people would be. <P>What I was trying to get across is that this site is called MARRIAGE BUILDERS. Yes there are many that weren't able to rebuild thier marriages, some weren't even really able to have the chance.<BR><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> Sometimes you have to accept the fact that you married somebody who has less committment to a marriage than you and that could mean that person is likely to cheat at some point in the future<HR></BLOCKQUOTE></B> <P>As long as their is life there is hope, to say his wife won't change and that he has to accept that she will probably continue to cheat is not offering possible solutions to his and her problem.<P><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I think that's why you have focussed your messages implying mental instability to me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE></B><P>I wasn't implying mental instability, I am sorry if that is what you thought. Again this site is put here by counselors. Most of us arrived here looking for help of some kind or another. Seeking Counsel. If you read the posts there are several that tell people to seek counseling. It is not an attack on your stability.<P>I have been told that it would be a good idea for me to get counseling too. I didn't take it to mean I was unstable just that it would help.<P>I really was trying to offer you someplace and someone to talk to because I was concerned with your anger, not for the purposes of sly inuendo as you suggest.<P>I am sorry that all I did was make you angrier.<P>As for my concerns with my H, infidelity at this point is not one of them. That doesn't mean that it couldn't go in that direction. It just isn't a concern for me at the moment.<P>Again I am sorry that I somehow triggered your anger I was only offering someone to talk to.<P><BR>-Kat-

Okay girls, time to call a truce, huh?

I hope y'all don't mind me butting in, especially since I haven't read the post in question by lookingforanswers. I just want to say that there's not nearly enough said about emotional abuse in the materials at this site. I think it was nyneve who found an article where Harley stated that plan a/plan b are not designed to deal with abusive relationships. I believe he recommends that one spouse leave the relationship if that relationship is abusive. <P>I've spent plenty of time being bitter and angry. I've spent almost as much time trying to get rid of those feelings. I've also received several posts supporting my plan to exit my marriage. While this is a marriage building site, I also believe that the advice I've received is entirely consistent with MB principals. Preserving (heck, how about restoring) my own sense of self worth can sometimes carry a very high price. Entertaining the thought of recovery, I believe, would further damage me. <P>I don't know about lookingforanswers' situation, but I do believe that my marriage is one where "give up and get out" is the appropriate advice for me. Kat, perhaps you might like to look at my latest thread and tell me if you truly believe further efforts toward recovery are warranted. I've tried hard to eliminate anger and bitterness from my heart. I'd be interested in hearing what you have to say. <BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=25&t=000975" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=25&t=000975</A> <BR>The title is "two people told me to file for divorce today"

Here's Dr. Harley's solution:<P><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5067a_qa.html" TARGET=_blank> How to overcome an abusive marriage</A><P>Anne