Maybe this is the wrong forum for this question, but you never know who's reading what where! I also put it on GQII.<P>I'm curious as to how many people have had real success with the MB theory. <P>Did the WS come home and you're both working on it and everything is looking good?<P>Personally, MB isn't going to work for us. My WS doesn't want it and won't have anything to do with it. He's got his OW and I guess they're happy. I haven't really asked. <P>I can use the Plan A for my own sanity, but I don't ever see him coming back. I do hope that someday he realizes what he walked away from - but I don't believe I could ever trust him again. He admits to having A's for the last 8 years - and I never knew. Never had a clue. <P>A very accomplished liar. And to keep coming home to me, to bed with me, to telling me he loves me. Makes me want to puke.

I don't think MB will save my marriage, mainly because two people need to participate and my H continues to isolate himself from the world and me. I am deeply grateful for MB principles though because I wasn't a pretty picture myself when I came here. The integrity of good folks here travels through the internet connections and rubbed off on me quite a bit. Maybe next time around, if there is one, I'll do better.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Personally, MB isn't going to work for us.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Plan A & Plan B CANNOT fail if you do them properly. Is a marriage always going to be saved? No. Do not think the only way for them to work is for your marriage to be restored.<P>They are designed to give the best chance for your marriage to be restored, but if it does not happen then they are also designed to ensure you learn how & what happened and how you can prevent it from happening again in other relationships.<P>Also, using these principles helps you get a divorce with much less trauma and pain.<P>If you learned and applied these principles, then they did work.

It's funny, I've thought about this recently. MB helped me when I felt my life was in absolute volatile crisis; when I really couldn't "see " anything clearly or advocate for me. I was completely devastated ( and sometimes stil...)<BR> The philosophy has not brought my marriage back. I am silly enough to still be hopeful! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] It has put me on a path that has allowed me to work on me,to think I can see how and where to do this work for now, see where I contributed to the breakdown( I cannot believe the things I've said), and helped point me to additional resources that, so far, has allowed me to dramatically change the pattern of communication between my wife and I. If my wife agrees to try us again, it will be due to MB and the additional recources it made available to me.<P> If she doesn't, I will be very sad, but will be very OK for the same reasons.<P> That said,to me, there are "holes" in the solution on MB that I struggled with. But clearly, MB and Steve were a Godsend.<P> And I still use this tool, but differently than in my initial panic.<P> Oh yeah, my wife is still w OM.<P> Dan

Yes,<P>they did help me, and when XW said "the harley principles are full of [censored]!" i knew that she was unwilling to even consider working on making it a decent on, and what she said, was ultimately true.<P>she said, and I quote, "This <MLC> is all about me!" and so it is, but I also realized where I could do better, and tried, but she refused to acknowledge it. Basically,i could have made different decisions, but i have a feeling of what the outcome would be, since she also said, "because my parents should have divorced, (in her opinion and they didn't) we have to." that this was a divorce of her relating us to them, and her reliving the past, trying to make amends for her parent's marriage.<P>However, i also realized more clearly where the X went off the deep end, and consistently and constantly LB me, and said she told her therapist that she could not change / would not change her LB practices, specifically, constant criticism and angry outbursts.<P>so what kind of marriage is that? so the principles helped me see that the marriage i thought i had was really through rose colored glasses, and the only way to restore it was to implement POJA, and she refused to do that.<P>Someone here also suggested a book, which after reading symptoms of a BPD, and seeing first hand the symptoms, often matching the direct quotes in the book, the problem was bigger than me, and if i didn't get any cooperation, there was no way I could fix it myself, except to turn into a verbally abused man servant, which i had a hard time doing anyway.<P>so the web site and the principles showed me the light of what was wrong, what I could fix and what I could not fix. <P>and I continue to see where X is just a relatively poor job preparing our kids for the future.<P>WIFTTy<p>[ October 22, 2001: Message edited by: WhenIfindthetime ]

MB did not save my marriage but it has helped me to become a much better person all around. I treat people much better. I think before I say something I'll regret. I'm a better parent and a pretty good EX wife.<P>I was able to let go of a relationship primarily because of what I learned here.<P>So, no it didn't save my pretty much doomed marriage but it has made my life much better.<P>Besides I have made some good friends here and what would life be without good friends.<P>Jill

For me Plan A merely prolonged the inevitable and in the end made it more painful for both of us. I followed Plan A to the letter and what happened was my ex reacted out of guilt, came home but didn't really want tobe there. He just felt he had to be because I was being so nice and understanding about everything, but occasionally he would snap and lash out violently(in words and in throwing things, threatening violence). No, to me Plan A was the worst possible solution to our problem. I should have went to Plan B immediately and let the wound begin to heal as quickly as possible. Plan A just added four more months of indecision and pain to us both.<BR> Plan B however did work. Yes, my marriage failed but by cutting contact it allowed me to really look at the situation in a more "real" light and begin to find my feet again. Plan B was about me and about finding everything I lost within my marriage and in fighting my ex's infidelity. So that bit did what it was supposed to.

"theory" is a good word, because in "theory" it should work, and does for many people. <P>For me, it didn't. That is, if the goal was to save the marriage and make it thrive.<P>Now, in "reality" it did work, because I am a better person (one hopes!) and I am using the concepts in my second marriage BEFORE ANY PROBLEMS OCCUR. <P>Lordy, if you've never seen a good POJA, you've been missing something wonderful!!! <P>My ex did post here a few times, but he called this place "Marriage Busters"... so that tells you what HE thought of it.

Hi... Well, the jury is still out on the finality of our marriage. We are separated but living under one roof... yes, in a duplex. AND, if it weren't for the marriage builder principles, I can tell you I would NOT have the strength to be able to do this... I was able to put myself in a *place* and place the needs of my innocent children and my H before my own. So, for this, I'm thankful. <P>Nduli says some interesting things about prolonging the pain using Plan A... there is some truth to this. The Proverbs say, "Hope deferred makes the heart sick." Well, I'm here to tell you that it does make me depressed and feel sick... but it also buys me some time to reflect and not react in my pain. I'm finding that I can survive in the face of rejection and abandonment. And, I'm learning how to relate to my H again. He hasn't filed for divorce yet but is stating he will. So, Plan A is like a paradigm for me... it's a GRID that I look at life through:<BR>a) what are his emotional needs that I can conceiveably meet today<BR>b) what are my love busting behaviors that I can withhold today.<P>Hey, I just thought of something... have you heard of the difference between GRACE and MERCY?<P>GRACE: Something that is given which the person doesn't necessarily deserve (e.g. identifying and meeting of their emotional needs)<P>and <P>MERCY: Somthing that a person DOES deserve but that which is withheld (e.g. love busters... yeah, he may deserve a good chewing out or a judgement on occasion but mercy is holding it back)<P>It's a reach... but this is how I look at the MB principles... it's a practical manifestation of the Gospel... to LOVE our neighbor (spouses) and our enemies (spouses). PERIOD! Now, I can't do this consistently on my own... this is why Jesus says "LOVE the Lord your God with all your heart soul and mind" THEN "Love your neighbor as yourself." It can only work this way because it's a confound... or counter-intuitive. The only way to over come this is, Christ living in us... the Holy Spirit enables us.<P>Okay, so for me, it has worked... like CHRISA states, it can't fail if we do it properly... not relying on our own strength. The other killer is doing it with the expectation that our marriage will be restored... the expectation has to be to become the best person I can be and to create the environment whereby my spouse will be hard pressed to give it up!<P>BUT, we were given free will. So each of us has a choice and we can't choose effectively for another person. So, in short, it has helped me... it has helped me focus on what really matters in this life. My marriage is important but it's not THE most important thing on this earth. (ooh, did I just say that?). I guess I'm still trying to work out my own expectations.<P>Don't give up! Don't give up on plan A/B even if your marriage isn't reconciling... you will be stronger...<P>Warmly,<BR>Nicole

The short answer is no.<P>My first mistake was ever confronting my H. If I had not, perhaps he would still be home. Perhaps the relationship with the OW would have ended before he got in so deep he didn't feel he could get out, and before he became beholden to her financially. Who knows - it is difficult to imagine it turning out worse than it did.<P>I treated my H with love - not because of "Plan A" but because I love him - and in return I was treated horribly.<P>I did whatever I could to encourage my children to have a relationship with their father, and in return their hearts have been broken over and over as he has withdrawn farther and farther from them.

Mmmm...interesting question!<P>I've found that (like me), most people come to MB too late to save the marriage. My XW had long since decided that our marriage was over, she just forgot to tell me!<P>I found MB after the A had gone way too far, so I don't know if it could have helped at all. <P>That said, I think that MB could be a great help to couples looking to get married, or to newly married couples faced with difficulty. I think that MB could be an extremely valuable resource for newlyweds or couples that are having difficulty in their marriage. The concepts are simple and sound, and the advice on these boards is practically priceless. <P>The key factor is: Does the WS want the marriage to work? If they don't, no amount of Plan A'ing or Plan B'ing will help. Dealing with a WS is a lot like dealing with an alcoholic...if they don't want to change, you can't make them change. That, to me, is at the heart of Plan A and Plan B: These plans are for YOU, not for your WS. If they come along for the ride, then your marriage can be saved, if not, then you'll be a better person for it.<P>I think that MB has helped me in many ways. I know I'm not alone. I know how to deal with these emotions. I know that I have a future beyond my failed marriage. And I have a huge sum of knowledge that I can apply to my future relationships. <P>I found the woman of my dreams once...and I lost her. I will not make those mistakes again...