One thing my wife brings up is my work that caused most of this. I worked as an engineer for a big company in Nashville. This company had many problems like we had ten plant managers in ten years. This always caused me stress because i was the head engineer and well would have to train them and put up with all there wonderful ideas i knew was not going to work. Remember those that forget the past repeat it. Well they shut that place down and moved it to Colorado I was the only one asked to move with the plant. So we moved I bought us a nice house out there and the kids loved it so did the wife. I did not the stress of setting up a plant with hundreds of machines hiring and traning people was much. I was in charge of manufacturing, engineering and quality. I work 12 hrs a day 6-7 days a week to get the place off the ground. 8 months after I moved I ended up in the hospital for 4 week and had major surgery and almost died spent 2 weeks at home. When I was in the hospital the plant manager was fired a friend of mine I knew for 10 years (here we go again). Then the political back stabbing started and guess who ended up in the middle ME. See this is a big company 100,000 sq ft machine shop. I knew my time was up but did not know when so I was depressed I knew **** was going to hit the fan we had a new plant manager in about 2 months and I was told through the grape vine he was going to replace all the big chesses. That started me going into my cave and drinking too much. I was not fun to live with the economy in colo sprgs was bad and getting worse every day. My wife was getting pissed with me I can not blame her I was getting pissed at myself but I knew if i was laid off we would have to sell the house and disappoint the kids. Well in the beginning of February my wife was laid off of work a software company down sizing I like that term it sounds so nice. I did not give her the support she needed when she was laid off because I was to worried about loosing my job the one that paid all the bills. So my wife was upset about that also. I thought well she would get unemployment and can relax and find another one. I did not understand how much that job meant to her I wish I did now. Now the **** hit the fan 30 days later I was laid off what fun a job I had for over 10 years. Now we are both laid off at the same time and you cannot buy a job. Well I drank beer and was at the computer allot putting out resumes and thinking how to turn this mess around. So I went further into the cave and work out this problem the best I could I got a job offer in California and took it even a nice pay increase and moving allowance. So there I went all by myself again and was here for 2 1/2 months working like a dog and sending money home to pay the bills. I looked for houses in my spare time and emailed pictures back for approval well I bought it. Our other house sold and 2 1/2 months after I moved here the family moved here. When my wife came here she was not the person I left she was distant did not seem to appreciate anything I did never said thanks for this house nothing. We had a fight because I felt 2 inches tall I worked 80 hrs a week to set up things out here and I took a week off before they got here to paint the interior I painted 7 rooms in 7 days ceilings too, with no appreciation. I felt used I had the water, electric, gas, phone, and even installed a sat dish for TV all turned on and ready to go. Well one week after she got here while I was at work she rented a truck and took half the furniture and the kids and towed her jeep and went back to Colorado. So this is where I am, me my 10 year old daughter that came back with me when I visited and the dog. So stress and deppresion was the last straw. And I did not even see this coming I was in shock for 4 days after I came home. My wife says she still loves me and always will but will not give us another chance right now maybe never I do not know.<p>I felt I tryed to make good for the family when I was handed a bad set of choices. And now I am half a family and nothing is close to my dreams. Now this house I am in is more like a prison then a house. If it was not for my daughter being with me a joy in my heart. I would jerry rig with a paper clip the furnace pilot light so the gas would stay on and blow it out and leave something on the stove cooking and drive away and wait for a big boom. No one would ever prove it was done on purpose the paper clip would fall and it would be just an accident. But I am not going to do that anyway. But then again if my daughter was not with me maybe I would. I do not know. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

((((((((((((((((ronnb))))))))))))))))))<p>You sound like you are in a very bad place right now. I know it is hard when your dreams have been pulled out from under, and your whole sorld has been set askew. It feels unfair, undeserved and mean. I am sorry for your pain.<p>Your wife is in her fog, and there is not a lot you can do about that except Plan A. Well, you are asking, how can I do that long distance? Well, if you are apart, distance doesn't matter all that much, because you are APART, whether she lives next door, or the other side of the world. You can STILL Plan A. <p>I did it for about 10(?) months total, three of them when we were apart. I found it hardest when we were separated, but I could still do it. What I concentrated on was his EN's. He asked me NOT to email, phone, etc...give him space. I did that. But when I saw him I tried to be the best me I could, looks, manner, demeanour, everything i knew was important to him. I tried and tried and tried to be the best me I could. When he phoned I was cheery, etc, too.<p>Well I didn't see any results, except that I felt better in myself for not LB'ing...but Plan A IS for YOU. There should be no expectation that they will come back. Because they might not. <p>You CAN do it however, and get her thinking a bit...don't let her see that you are struggling with this, get out there and do stuff and be willing to let go a little...I have heard from a lot of people here that it can be a good mind shaker for the WS.<p>Love and light,<p>Jacky

ronnb,<p>I am sorry you are hurting. I know you want answers to why your wife left so I am going to try to put myself in your wife's shoes and give you what I think those answers may be. <p>I know you just wanted to give your wife financial security. Although financial security is not my top 5 EN, I have heard it is usually the top 5 EN's of most women. If it is the only EN met then there will be problems. It does sound like this was basically the only one you were meeting.<p>It sounds you gave her the things she didn't want but the things you thought she needed. You gave her the things you needed. You didn't listen to things she told you she needed. <p>It's great you are so honest in telling your story. The drinking, going into the cave, all those things. You already know most of the things that brought your marriage to the condition it's in now. You now need to try to listen to her, figure out what her needs our and quit assuming you know these. I know it's harder because she is now gone, but I think you still may have a chance. Read all the things on MB and be patient.<p>If this were me. I would look at it this way. I am not a materialistic person. The $200,000 house, the good job, all these material things mean nothing if I don't have my husband as my partner, by my side supporting and helping me every day. I would have gave up the $200,000 house, settled for a $50,000 house to have the real things I needed. I think your wife feels the same way, if she didn't she'd be in this house instead of living in someone's basement. <p>Recently, I have a friend who told me about a guy who's wife left him. The only thing the guy said is, "I don't get it. I gave her a Lexus for her birthday and she leaves me?" Sure some women want the expensive things, but material things is not necessarily what the majority of women want. Women want a partner, they want romance, they want to feel loved, they don't want to feel like they are leading a single mom life...<p>Good luck in getting your marriage back on track. I am sorry this is hurting you so bad, I do understand why you are hurting. You worked hard thinking you were making a good life for your family just to be slapped in the face. That's got to be so hard.<p>I am going to post a separate post I once read on 4given's thread by Happy hus. I think every person in here should read it. I think you will be able to relate to what he says.<p>Take care,<p>ANNA<p>[ October 27, 2001: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]</p>

Ron,<p>Here it is. This was written by Happy_Hus to 4given on. I thought it summed up marriage pretty well.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>The following message was written by happy_hus <hr></blockquote>
I was inspired by something Anna wrote to think back through my marriage and the course it took.
There are many times when my marriage seemed to be torn by W and my fears of sacrificing our
individual dreams. I think this may be where you and your H are at right now. I hope the following
post, albiet rather long, offers some discription of what happenned to us and how we see things
differently now. <p>It seems that marriage for us was a bit like two boats traveling across the ocean with a mutual
destination but no particular coarse. Where the boats are headed at any time is a decision that needs to be made by agreement of both captains. But the captains speak different languages so the
communication is mainly through gestures - the way they treat each other. Hence, deciding the
direction involves a lot of pointing and yelling at each other “lets go that way”. Sometimes the captains think they have an agreement but are pursuing slightly different courses. When they point fingers, it seems they are generally going the same way, yet as they move toward that destination, they drift farther apart. <p>For W and I this all started when we were dating. We would share our dreams and aspirations and be
supportive of each others goals. We were determined to work together to create the best family we could imagine together. We had a dream of what that family looked like. After we were married we started out on the big ocean with this great common destination in mind. The challenge was to stay on the same course without being able to comunicate effectively. <p>As with most men I perceived that the most important milestone in getting to this common destination was to feed and provide for my family through career sucess. W agreed with this goal and was 100% behind it - at least she said she was. To me, this meant W having to be strong and looking after the home while I was busy - it was the most important milestone as far as I was concerned. I was fired up and ready to achieve great things. <p>What didn’t make sense was why W kept hounding me to spend more time with her and the kids.
Yeah, I knew all that Cat in the Cradle stuff and agreed that being there for them was also an
important part of reaching that destination. I wanted to be both the perfect father and the perfect provider but they always seemed to conflict. I couldn't pursue both. We were on course for career success and deviating from that course would be counterproductive. Surely the other milestones in our dream could wait just a little longer...... <p>I tried hard to explain the importance of this goal. She didn't seem to understand any of it. At times I would wonder if she really did share this supposedly mutual dream. How could helping her with the home and the kids be more important than my career? <p>What was really scary was the idea that maybe she was lying to me. Maybe I was swindled into a
marriage where I could never be successful. She says she is supportive but her actions suggest
otherwise. How could I trust her? What if she leads me into a life where I devote all my spare time to the family and stagnate in my career? I could think of other men I know who did just that. Would I become one of them? What does the future hold for us as a couple if she doesn’t really support my dream? Would I have to give up this milestone? Would I have to sacrifice my career? How could I live with myself if I did? These fears played on my mind and interfered with our ability to love one another.<p>As I paddled toward this dream career W was paddling toward the other aspect of our mutual dream. Her goal was to have a family where we all sit around the kitchen table at dinner, treat each other cheerfully and sometimes go on piknics in the park. She dreamed of a life where we shared the housework, responsibility for the kids and romantic adventures. She read books written by gurus providing recipes for happy marriages and decided that was what we needed. This was an honorable goal which would lead to our mutual dream and was thus worthy of both of our commitment. Surely I understood this? If I didn’t then she had to make me understand. <p>“We have to go this way” she shouts in Venusian- point, point, point. “Yeah, I know, as soon as we get past the island over the horizon” I shout in Martain - point, point, point. <p>When she saw me putting my career ahead of her worthy goal she reacted with the same fears that I
had. What if I had lied to her. I seemed supportive of her goals but my actions suggest otherwise. How could she trust me? What if I swindled her into a marriage where she would end up becoming a slave looking after the home and kids while I pursued my career? She could think of other women who did just that. Would she become one of them? What does the future hold for us as a couple if I don’t support her dream? Would she have to give up her important family goals? Raise the kids without a father? Sacrifice her dream? How could she live with herself if she did? These fears played on her mind and interfered with our ability to love one another. <p>For us it took 20+ years to finally reach a point where we could learn each others language and
communicate effectively. A big part of that learning was changing our habit of thinking/assuming and work toward understanding each other. This wasn’t easy. <p>In the end it turns out that we do both have the same destination in mind. But when you are on a big ocean the path isn’t always clear. There are infinite ways to reach that destination and hence, we would each believe we HAD to a certian way panicked if we weren’t headed in that direction.
Sometimes we did get lost. No doubt. It is not a journey without mistakes and inefficient endeavors. But that was part of the learning. Part of building faith in one another than we can overcome our failures and still love each other. <p>Looking back makes me smile and shake my head in amazement that we got to where we are. How
stupid we both were in the pursuit of this dream. It seems almost silly. As I look ahead I really don’t care where we end up now - as long as we get there together. You see, happiness doesn’t come from reaching your destination, it comes from sharing the journey. There is no right or wrong destination, just a right or wrong way to communicate and make decisions. <p>Tom Robbins once wrote: The bottom line is that people are never perfect, but love can be. We waste time creating the perfect lover, instead of creating the perfect love. <p>You can substitute the words “pursuing the perfect dream” or “crating the perfect marriage” for the
words “creating the perfect lover” and it is still just as insightful. Don’t let your fears and mistrust get in the way of creating the perfect love in your relationship. Fear is the only waste of time. <p>Ron,<p>Again, goodluck with your marriage. <p>Take care,<p>Anna<p>[ October 27, 2001: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]</p>

I wish I knew sometimes how I feel sometimes like a failure and Idiot. I have much to be grateful for and much to regret. I wish my wife would act more human and less like a bottom feeder. My luck if she fails at making it on her own it will be my fault also. I can hear it now look at what you made me do or something like that. She always took for granted what I did for the family. Now she is finding out how hard life can be I just wish she did not take my one daughter along for this ride she did not deserve it. What is it when women reach 39-40 years old they have a conniption fit. Now we are in a full-blown recession and a war. This is no time to break up a family. If I had both my children with me I would let her fall of the face of the earth. She hurt my soul so bad I thought I would never be right again and I still am not. I do not have years to waste getting my **** together. My wife sent me a letter telling me she would never take Randi from me. I thought how can a women carry a child in her body give birth live with this beautiful girl for 10 years and then say and do this. I wonder if she thinks about Kelli as much, expendable. I wonder. Also I do not trust her anymore if I shipped Randi back for the holidays I feel I may never get her back I do not like that feeling.

ron,<p>First if you are using real names here, you may want to take those off. I, for one, don't like using real names on the internet.<p>Have you read the articles and letters on MB. <p>If not, Here's a start.<p>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8111_leave.html<p>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html<p>I'm not really sure what you are looking for at MB. I think I'm getting the wrong impression. Do you want to just have support and have us validate your feelings? Or, Are you looking to change the things you may have done wrong in your marriage and become a better person? You can't change her right now, only yourself. I had a counselor once tell me and my husband, if you don't make changes in the things you are doing wrong in your marriage, these things will more than likely follow you to another unsuccessful marriage until you make those changes. <p>You say she doesn't appreciate all the many things you've done for your marriage. I don't know you, I don't know all the things you've done. Would you mind elaborating on that for me, so we can all get some idea of who you are and the things you've done in your marriage? Also, what about your wife, what kind of wife was she? Did you listen to the things she needed and wanted? Were you not only there financially but also there taking care of your family and being a partner with your wife? Since I don't know you it's really hard to tell. You tell me she's in the miserable mess and is blaming you and will probably blame you later. Did she say she blamed you? Thanks for answering all the questions.<p>Take care and I am so sorry you are going through all this. It's great you are trying to be a good father to both your daughters. Remember your daughter is old enough to decide where she wants to live, if you send her back to your wife's house for the holiday's, you have the law on your side to get her back. Also, I don't think there's a whole lot you can do, she has legal rights to see her daughter. I think too, instead of questioning her as a mother who does not want her daughter, you may want to look at it this way. She wants what is best for that daughter she gave birth too. She is putting her own selfish feelings aside by saying something like, both my children are going to live with me, instead she is saying, my daughter wants to live with her dad, I am not going to get in the way of her happiness. <p>Take care,<p>ANNA

ron,<p>One more thing, try hard not to feel like a failure or an idiot. Most of us on MB has been there, we've all felt like that, whether Betrayed spouses, Wayward spouses or just are spouses leaving the marriage. Most of us have looked back with regrets and felt like failures. It's hard I know, but you will get through this and hopefully through learning on MB you'll be a better person no matter which way the marriage goes.<p>Take care and chin up!<p>ANNA<p>[ October 31, 2001: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]</p>