It has been a crazy weekend. I found out Sat night at a church festival that the OW is the cousin of a old co-worker of my H's. Now it makes more sense how he found out about the place to rent, but then again, he could have known her longer. The person who told me about this says my H also bought OW "a ring". Of course I have to be careful considering the source because the source is a pathalogical lier who never has liked me and really must have enjoyed hurting me.<p>As you all know, I had written my H a plan B letter and asked for his assistance in limiting contact. You may also remember that he still takes kids to school every day and that he comes in talking to me/bringing me a piece of candy, etc like my best friend everyday. I asked him both in the letter and in person to back off and let me have the space I needed to get over him. It causes me pain to see him everyday because I still love and want him. He said he understood but continued same routine, other than leaving out the hugs he was giving me daily.<p>Anyway, Sat night, I think about spending another weekend alone and the "cousin" thing was bugging me so I left him a voice mail on his cell phone that said that I would take the kids to school this week, I needed the time and he could pick them up on Friday as scheduled for visitation.<p>I get up early this AM and get kids ready, even have time to fix breakfast thanks to the clocks moving back. Guess who pulls up? I asked him if he got my message, "what message?" he says.<p>I said, well since you're here you can take them but I'll do it from now on.<p>He sees I'm visibly upset and he goes on with "is that what you really want?" I explain that what I really want is for him to come home but since I can't have what I want, I'm having to do the best I can to move on.<p>We get into long conversation which I can't get into here but he says that the one thing that makes him happy is to come by to get kids and see me for a few minutes each morning. <p>I say things like, it hurts to let you go but as long as you are living with OW, I can't allow you to have it both ways. I explain that someday I might be able to be "just friends" but that for now I need more than that. I say that one day I'll have someone who makes me happy and meets my needs and being around H will not be so hard. <p>He says" I want to be the one who does that"<p>Can you beleive this? He is living with OW, never calls me or asks me out, doesn't help out with any house or yard stuff, barely gives enough $ to by groceries & pay power bill, meets none of my EN's, etc but HE WANTS TO BE THE ONE WHO MAKES ME HAPPY?<p>I said, then do it. Nothing is stopping you. You can make a big decision. You made the decision to move out, make one to move back in. Do something, but you cannot have it both ways. It isn't fair to me, OW, you or the kids.<p>Another stupid thing he said during this was when I said " do you think your new wife is going to put up with you being part of my life?" His answer was " she won't have any choice,will she? First of all that is stupid and unrealistic but secondly she supposedly doesn't mean that much to him, he's not sure if he loves her, he's not sure if they have a future together.......<p>Should I just have him committed????? He is so deep off his rocker, I'm going nuts. <p>I asked him to stay outside tomorrow and not come into the house as he pretty much refused to just let me take them myself. I don't want to deny the kids the chance to see him but I can't continue to have my day's ruined by a stressful morning each day. <p>I have done nothing today but worry and think about this and what he said, wondering if it means there is hope for our marriage, etc. That was the whole reason I wanted him to stay away, so I could have some time and space and protect my feelings since he refuses to end relationship with OW.<p>Please pray for me.... PP

I left out the part where he says he has recurring dream about our divorce.<p>He says he goes to sleep most of the time thinking about why this is happening to us. He says he always dreams that he is dying. That he figures all this happened to prepare us for him dying.<p>I didn't know what to say except that maybe he was afraid that I would think about him being dead. Sort of like burying the past and blocking someone out of my life as if they had died.<p>I did tell him that some people handle divorce like a death because they have to pretend that the ex is dead to them to get over it. He swears with tears in his eyes that he doesn't want it to be this way with me. I didn't know what to say but I said it would that death would have been easier than divorce for me because at least there would not have been rejection involved. I don't guess that was the right thing to say.<p>I'm a bit worried. I know he is still very clinically depressed. I'm not his keeper and I know he has to be a grown up and want help for himself but I'm worried about him and these dreams. Right before he moved out he admitted to being suicidal due to the stress. Could this be happening again? He swears that he would never hurt the kids that way but I know he is very confused right now. Should I be concerned?<p>PP

I think you have reasons to be concerned, based on what you said in your post! Was he like this prior to the affair? Maybe he is eaten up with guilt! My H went through that stage when I was worried about him and depression. He was sorry what had happend and hated it but yet did not want to give up his girlfriend. "want your cake and eat it too" syndrome- There is not much you can do for him except pray for him and then leave it with God and let Him take care of it! You will be in my prayers! Hang in there! Maybe plan B is working!

I feel like we are living the same life. I hear the same things from my H. He wants us to stay really good friends, he still loves me, he does not want to give up his girlfriend. I am still Plan A'ing. Sometimes I see my old hubby, but most of the time a stranger has taken over his mind, body and soul. It is so hard to love someone so much and see them slip away. I sometimes wish my H had died too. We would still have the pain, but it would be a different kind of pain. Best wishes to you. We will all make it though somehow!! With God's help!!

Hello Lynn...<p>Geeszh... what a drag. Yes, you're doing the right thing to protect any feelings you may have for him by limiting his access to you and your visibility to him - aka Plan B. Just hang tough through this time. He needs to feel the effects of the withdrawal of you in his life. I'm watching very carefully how you instigate not only a physical Plan B but also an emotional Plan B because I'm not very far behind you...<p>So, TAKE CARE OF YOU! Work on relaxing and enjoying the time you have with the kids, if you can... I know it's hard because there are more demands on you. But this experience God can also use... look for HIS touch throughout all of this. Especially HIS touch in your relationship with the kids. <p>Your H would drive anyone mad so take a break from being a wife for a while... focus on being a woman and being a mother. Be the best you can be... TRUST in God to transform you. SEEK GOD and let God seek your man... you can't.<p>Cheers!
Nicole

He probably sounds off his rocker because he's in a fog. He wants the best of both worlds, and your Plan B is interfering with that. He surely prefers having his OW on one hand and your Plan A on the other. Bolster the loving boundary that you have defined. Plan B means no contact so that you may protect yourself against further pain. Let's hope that he honors your wish and stays outside when he picks up the kids. <p>If that doesn't work, is there a trusted neighbor, friend or relative nearby who could "wo/man the door" for you? That would give you a buffer and enforce the boundary you've set with your H. ...a boundary which he should respect btw

Well another day and another opportunity for him to completely ignore my wishes.<p>I had kids ready this morning when he pulled up. Son was actually standing outside with his bookbag. BUT not only does he come in, he brings me the insurance cards for the kids, eats a piece of leftover pizza, takes his shoes off and goes upstairs to use the bathroom, talks to me about the new terroist threats, fixes a bracelet of mine the kids broke and comments on how good the chili beans I'm cooking smell.<p>Does this sound like respect for my Plan B attempt?<p>Overall, it was a pleasant conversation and I didn't get upset or anything, but it was definately not what I had intended. <p>It is not in my personality to be just plain rude, plus I don't think being a B**** is going to help matters any. I know that one of the MB principles is being strong but that home must be established as a "Safe" place to return. I am so confused. How can I be strong without sounding like I've given up? I am really worried about turning my back on him. I know I am being taken advantage of by his living with OW and that I'm very emotional due to my lonliness, etc. I am trying my best to apply MB principles but what happens when you don't get the cooperation of the WS?<p>Let the counseling commence.........<p>PP

Why don't you lock the doors? Put the kids outside like they're waiting for the school bus, and lock the doors.<p>Does he still have keys? You need to change the locks if so. You MUST be strong. It is not rude to disallow contact, it is being a doormat to make a decision and then not enforce it. True rudeness is hearing someone's boundaries and then walking all over them, which your H is doing quite well. How can he respect you if you don't respect yourself?

PP,<p>I am very sorry your H won't honor your Plan B. This is my take on your situation: Your H is still fence-sitting. He is allowing both you and the OW to each meet some of his needs. You are meeting his need for family, and perhaps others, too. As much as is possible, you must do everything you can to execute Plan B. Get dressed and be in the car by the time your H gets there in the morning and have the kids ready and outside waiting. As soon as he drives up, start your car, waves goodbye to the kids and back out of the driveway. Just drive around the block until he is gone. He should not come into the house and make himself "at home". Remember, his choices lead him to have another home.<p>Plan B is critical right now. Not only will it help you, but it will also force your H to have ALL of his needs met by the OW. Maybe she can do that, but then again, maybe she can't. It will show your H what some of the consequences of the divorce will be like - you will no longer be the family unit together and he will no longer be a central person in your life. If the OW can't meet all of his needs, this might be what your H needs to see the affair in the true light of day.<p>Not only will Plan B take the "pressure off" of you that is generated by continued contact with your WH while the affair is active, it will allow him to see and feel some of the negative consequences of his choices (the continued affair or divorce).<p>Don't allow him to keep sucking you back into the triangle, PP. You deserve a commited and loving relationship, and his fence-sitting is inhibiting that from happening.<p>Take care, Desiree

Tomorrow I'm going to be ready and leave for work as soon as he gets there. I know my own weaknesses and I can't help but talk to him if I'm around him. I'll try leaving for a few days and he can deal with the kids shoes, bookbags, etc. <p>Not a perfect plan but much better than small talk in the kitchen.....<p>Any suggestions appreciated, good or bad, I need all angles. I promise I'm trying to listen to everyone's advice and trying to be stronger. I'm just dealing with a serious personality issue, that peoplepleaser thing......<p>Thanks everyone!

Golly gosh. Your Plan B is soooooo bad.<p>STOP THE INSANITY!!!<p>How is he supposed to understand what you want and mean, when you can’t abide by what you told him? You need to decide you WILL do Plan B properly, otherwise it will do nothing for you or him.<p>Tell him to wait outside until the kids are ready. Do not get into a conversation over this.
Do not take his phone calls. Do not answer his pages. Do not reply to his emails.<p>C’mon girl. You can do this! You NEED to do this!

He doesn't call, e-mail or page me. The AM contact is the only time I see him. <p>I know, I know..... I am lousy at this. Always have been. I really thought I was ready for Plan B. I have asked him at least twice to cooperate with my wishes along with writing at least 2 Plan B type letters.<p>I am wishy-washy. I know. I hate it too. I just don't know how to stay mad at him. I have called my counselor for a work in. I've done all the proper plan B talk, I just can't walk the walk.<p>Although I have filed for divorce and will not do anything to stop that process ( motion hearing is in 4 weeks), I can't accept that my marriage is over. I've had days that I was strong and level-headed. Then other days where I felt like I was turning my back on someone I loved. <p>He has a serious problem and I understand I'm only making it worse. I'll try the leaving at the same time thing. Thank God the time changed back. I'm not a morning person at all and I dread the idea of being forced to be completely ready by 7:10 am. <p>Thanks again for everyone's honesty and support. Maybe one day it will all sink in. It is not falling on deaf ears even though it may seem like it.<p>PP

Peoplepleaser,<p>Your name really says it all. You are so busy trying to please everyone else, you are not realizing you are a PERSON too....take the time to PLEASE yourself.<p>My eXH use to come in and visit. If I was cooking help himself to some of the food. Pour himself a cup of coffee and sit and visit.<p>I even tried keeping the Holiday traditions with him after the Divorce. I was so busy trying to make my childrens lives as normal as possible I wasn't sure I was gonna get the boot marks out of my back...(doormat).<p>Finally one day he walked in. Picked up a piece of chicken I was cooking for dinner. I turned around took the chicken out of his hand and said. YOU are not paying Child Support, You are not paying Spousal support...You DID NOT put this food on my table nor are you paying rent here. IN the future you will wait outside for the Children and I will send them out. This is not your house it is mine, and you need an invitation to enter.<p>Then stuck to my guns. Boy was it hard, but was one of the first steps to my feeling like I really was a HUMAN being and not just an extension of this man that had ignored me for so long.<p>Hun, you are a person, a good person, who doesn't want to hurt this man that has hurt you so badly, you really need to look in the mirror and say " I DON'T DESERVE THIS" and I WILL NOT allow it any more.<p>Hugzzzzzzzzzzz<p>-Kat-

Is this note too much. I know I've said it all before but it didn't take before. This is a reminder. It is not intended to be a Plan B letter, just a note.<p>(H),<p>I am very worried about you. I want to be there for you but nothing has really changed on your part. As long as you choose to live with OW and continue your relationship with her, I shouldn&#8217;t be part of your daily life. I know this is hard. It is not what I want but decisions you have made to continue your current lifestyle make things impossible for me. <p>Monday, you seemed to understand what I was saying when I told you it was too much for me to just be your friend right now. I want more than anything to support you and help you and the best way of doing that is to let you see how living without me in your life is going to feel. This is not a test. It just isn&#8217;t fair that you expect me to go along with and be ok with your living arrangements. You are not doing anything to help our marriage. You expect me to talk to you every morning as if we were still together as a married couple. Guess what? We are not living together and I cannot pretend to be your wife when you will not allow me to meet all your needs. I said Monday that you couldn&#8217;t have it both ways. The days of having your cake and eating it too are over.<p>Either you decide to move out of her house and cut all contact with her or you cut all contact with me. I don&#8217;t like this anymore than you do, but it is not fair to me to float along day-by-day misinterpreting your words or actions. I suppose that is the biggest problem. Your words give me hope and your actions slap me down. By refusing to move out of her house, you are sending a message load and clear that you have no respect for my feelings and do not care about me. This may sound harsh but put yourself in my shoes and look at this from my point of view.<p>You told me Monday that you wish you could be the person who was meeting my needs. Well, someone once told me to wish in one hand and sh*t in the other and see which one filled up first. Gross I know but true. Your words and all the wishing in the world are not going to bring us back together. There must be action behind the words. Nothing is impossible, especially with God&#8217;s help. <p>Honestly, I would like to know where you see yourself 6 months from now. Are you prepared to be divorced? If you have any hope that we can work things out, you should act upon it now and try. If not, please let me go so I can find happiness without you. <p>We have been over this time and time again and now it is up to me to take a stand and live up to the boundaries I&#8217;m trying to establish. It is unrealistic for me to be part of your life while you are involved with another woman. I want to be your wife but I cannot share you with another woman. It is all of you or none of you. <p>I&#8217;m still praying for a chance to show you how good we can be together but right now, it has to start with you. I&#8217;ve done all I can except pray. I love you,<p>
PP<p>Comments please. If this is a really bad idea, I need to know now. Thanks!

I think it's a bad idea... since you asked.<p>Why? Because you've written two notes before and you're sitting waiting for him to honor your requests. Your words say 'no' but your actions say 'well, maybe'. DON'T DO IT! I'm with Chris on this... if you're going to do Plan B, DO IT! You've got to be leaving for work when he comes for the kids. Or you have to be leaving for somewhere - like a book store to read and have a coffee or to a women's bible study/support group or to meet a friend. You have to MAKE yourself stand up for what you've already requested. Another note WILL not get him to do what you ask. You have to be able to stand UP for what you've already asked. You will end up disrespecting yourself more if you send that note and he still doesn't listen... he won't you know that. So, Plan A to yourself... meet your OWN emotional needs and for gosh sakes, STOP lovebusting yourself... allowing yourself to be walked over. It's a transformation you need to make - one day at a time but you can do it.<p>No MORE notes/letters... just action babe! WALK your talk...<p>Sorry, this was kind of tough... YOU can do it. You MUST do it or you will just be hurting yourself.<p>Nicole

Peoplepleaser,<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I am very worried about you. I want to be there for you but nothing has really changed on your part. As long as you choose to live with OW and continue your relationship with her, I shouldn&#8217;t be part of your daily life. I know this is hard. It is not what I want but decisions you have made to continue your current lifestyle make things impossible for me. <hr></blockquote><p>bad start:Leave out the part where you are worried about him.<p>As long as you live with the OW I CAN NOT be part of your daily life.The decisions you have made to continue with your current lifestyle make things impossible for me.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Monday, you seemed to understand what I was saying when I told you it was too much for me to just be your friend right now. I want more than anything to support you and help you and the best way of doing that is to let you see how living without me in your life is going to feel. This is not a test. It just isn&#8217;t fair that you expect me to go along with and be ok with your living arrangements. You are not doing anything to help our marriage. You expect me to talk to you every morning as if we were still together as a married couple. Guess what? We are not living together and I cannot pretend to be your wife when you will not allow me to meet all your needs. I said Monday that you couldn&#8217;t have it both ways. The days of having your cake and eating it too are over.<hr></blockquote><p>Edited:
It isn&#8217;t fair of you to expect me to go along with and be ok with your living arrangements. You are not doing anything to help our marriage. You expect me to talk to you every morning as if we were still together as a married couple. Guess what? We are not living together and I cannot pretend to be your wife when you will not allow me to meet all your needs. I said Monday that you couldn&#8217;t have it both ways. The days of having your cake and eating it too are over
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Either you decide to move out of her house and cut all contact with her or you cut all contact with me. I don&#8217;t like this anymore than you do, but it is not fair to me to float along day-by-day misinterpreting your words or actions. I suppose that is the biggest problem. Your words give me hope and your actions slap me down. By refusing to move out of her house, you are sending a message load and clear that you have no respect for my feelings and do not care about me. This may sound harsh but put yourself in my shoes and look at this from my point of view.<hr></blockquote><p>Edited:Either you decide to move out of her house and cut all contact with her or you cut all contact with me. Your words give me hope and your actions slap me down. By refusing to move out of her house, you are sending a message loud and clear that you have no respect for my feelings and do not care about me. <p>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>You told me Monday that you wish you could be the person who was meeting my needs. Well, someone once told me to wish in one hand and sh*t in the other and see which one filled up first. Gross I know but true. Your words and all the wishing in the world are not going to bring us back together. There must be action behind the words. Nothing is impossible, especially with God&#8217;s help.<hr></blockquote><p>Edited:
You told me Monday that you wish you could be the person who was meeting my needs. Well,There must be action behind the words. Nothing is impossible, especially with God&#8217;s help. <p>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Honestly, I would like to know where you see yourself 6 months from now. Are you prepared to be divorced? If you have any hope that we can work things out, you should act upon it now and try. If not, please let me go so I can find happiness without you.<hr></blockquote><p>Leave that out, it leaves too much room for him to want to have dialog with you about it.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>We have been over this time and time again and now it is up to me to take a stand and live up to the boundaries I&#8217;m trying to establish. It is unrealistic for me to be part of your life while you are involved with another woman. I want to be your wife but I cannot share you with another woman. It is all of you or none of you. <hr></blockquote>
Edited:
We have been over this time and time again and now it is up to me to take a stand and live up to the boundaries I&#8217;m trying to establish. It is unrealistic for me to be part of your life while you are involved with another woman. I want to be your wife but I cannot(WILL NOT) share you with another woman. It is all of you or none of you.<p>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I&#8217;m still praying for a chance to show you how good we can be together but right now, it has to start with you. I&#8217;ve done all I can except pray. I love you,<hr></blockquote><p>If it were me I would leave off the I Love you, he is well aware that you love him and has taken advantage of it numerous times.<p>Anyways is only my opinion, <p>-Kat-

No one has to worry. If I give him a note at all, it will be to tell him where he can go.<p>I prayed today for God to open my heart and mind to His will in my life. I prayed for something specific to happen so I wouldn't interpret it wrong.<p>When I get home today, there is a letter from my lawyer where my lawyer wrote to H's lawyer about financial disclosure. My H had told me he did not have a lawyer and didn't plan on protesting anything as long as he got visitation with the kids. <p>I don't know why I would be shocked that he got a lawyer but I was. It really hurt to get that after all the BS he said on Monday about wanting to make things right, wanting to meet my needs, dreaming he was dying, etc. <p>Maybe he was dreaming he was dying because he knows it will kill him inside when I turn my back on him. Well, it's time to find out. <p>I left him a voice mail tonight that said simply, I want you to leave me alone. Now that you have a lawyer, they can handle everything. If you want to make plans with the kids for Halloween tomorrow night, you need to call and let me know what is planned. I don't want to speak to you about anything other than your plans for tomorrow and if you don't call tonight, do not plan on coming to get them tomorrow. I will handle the trick or treat thing myself. Click.....<p>
I am so pissed. I don't know why. I think at myself more than anything for being such a wimp and a lightweight. I annoy myself sometimes. Thanks everyone for your patience and understanding. <p>I needed this kick in the pants to get me headed in the right direction again. And that direction is away from my lying, cheating, no-good H. <p>pp

Peoplepleaser,<p>I am so sorry that again you are in pain.<p>I wish I could somehow ease it for you.<p>(((((((((hugs))))))))))<p>-Kat-

Likewise... I'm sorry also. What a blow to be surprised by his legal steps forward... It's so disillusioning... hope deferred makes the heart sick, they say in the Proverbs. Your hope is draggin' your heart around in the mud... your hope for your H... I'm glad you're prayin' and seekin' God first. Truly, it's your only way to navigate this through in a way that you'll be at peace with.<p>Warmly,
Nicole

kat<p>You have helped me. More than you know just by being here and taking the time to respond to me. It especially means alot because you aren't just agreeing with whatever I do. It takes guts to be honest and opinionated on this forum sometimes.<p>Yes I'm hurting but no more than anyone else here. I pray God blesses us all.<p>PP