W is still never home. I know she is spending all her spare time with OM. Kids are always asking questions, which she blames on me, they an see what is happening. She is still living in house, using excuse that she is trying to save money for place on her own. if that`s the case she worldn`t be spending money on motel bill. The OM piece of crap has her paying for the motel. he must be married too if they are going to a room. How can she notice any changes I made when she is never home? I think she is to wrapped up in this dirtbag to see how she is destroying our family. What is my next move????<BR>

Here's your next move. You get out of the pity party and defend yourself and your children right away. Ya know what's gonna happen? She's going to decide she wants this other man, file for divorce and then turn around and kick YOU out of the home. She'll get the home AND the kids AND her new guy while you look in from the outside. On top of that, you can go ahead and pay her child support while you pick up the pieces of your life. So, stop whinning that she's gone and go contact an attorney. You need to make the first move or you'll end up just like I said above. I'm not unfeeling, I'm just being blunt with you so that you wake up! Now go defend yourself!!

That's a little bit harsh, perhaps?<P>Confused, we have been talking about starting legal proceedings for some time now. (At least I have.) I think if Bonnie has a valid point it's that you need to make sure you are ready before she decides to "go for it". My ex was pretty good at not telling me a damn thing until basically the day she told me I was leaving, and I ended up with a car full of clothes (a cheap car at that) and all the legal expenses. Don't do that. If she figures out what she is doing, you could loose out big time. Best to be ready to move while she still thinks she doesn't want the kids.<BR>

I saw a lawyer over 6 weeks ago. He told me all of my options. Told me to try to get her to counseling and said to call him when I needed hi. Touched base with his office a few weeks ago. They said as soon as I find out when she is leaving we can get something going as soon as she walks out the door. She will have to pay for child support. She has no plan, no money saved. Hasen`t seen a lawyer yet. I really wanted to reconcile the marriage builders way. I am doing counceling with Steve Harley and he said to folllow plan A for now. I guess I implemented that plan around June. She still finds reasons to leave for a few hours each evening, don`t know weather to believe any of her excuses or not. Really doesn`t matter, I can`t do anything about it anyway.<BR>Had a little setback today. talked to her for 5 minutes today about us and to rethink her decisions. Again gone for a while tonight, said she had to stop by work an<p>[This message has been edited by confused58 (edited August 05, 1999).]

I guess it is wait and see for you. I think if you stick with plan "A" for now you don't burn any bridges. Living with the ambiguity is hard. I did that for a while. I had a couple of friends who did it for over a year. For me, the ambiguity didn't go away until I made up my own mind. That didn't really happen all at once. But one day I looked at myself and realized I felt different. I was treating my ex differently as well. It was an automatic shift to plan "B" or something. Actually, I think it was plan "C", which is where I decided to get on with my life. I still haven't heard anything from her. But then I try not to talk to her anyway. I don't like being lied to. I also don't like partial truths. Since nothing else comes from her mouth, I can significantly reduce the amount of times I am lied to by not asking her any questions.<P>I don't know what else you can do besides stick with the counseling. The "Marriage Builder's" way is good. You might also want to look in to some "personal" counseling, especially if it becomes apparent that your wife is leaving anyway. It sure helped me.<P>I think that "I love you and I wish you would stay. You know you are able to leave if you want to" is more effective than "Please rethink this decision." I tried the "rethink" one and it made my ex really mad. She resented that I thought she was wrong. "It's my life, and I have to do what's right for me" and all that crap.<BR>

confused:<P>If you started plan A around June, you've still got a few months to go. I found Steve a very effective counselor, and followed his advice very closely.<P>It is hard putting yourself in a "financially vulnerable" situation while watching your wife do all this. It sounds like the lawyer you're talking with is in tune with what you're doing, and that he'll protect your interests in as gentle a way as possible. <P>Bottom line, you're doing the best you can given your situation. Stick with it!

K- I don`t know if you remember but you were the one that convinced me to talk to Steve Harley, which I have been doing for 2 months. Steve has helped me a lot by making me realize the mistakes I made in our marriage. I know this is a long process. How is your situation? Right now I believe my W is still in her affair. I don`t know how long that will last, and can only guess it has been going on for maybe 2 months.I can only think that if the affair ended maybe I would see a little progress but there is nothing I can do about that.I know in my heart I do want to reconcile with my W.

Well, in that case, I think you have to put up with just about everything. I might try some distinct rules about what she can do around the house, how much of the financial responsibilities are hers (based on the likely outcome of a separation), how much time she should be spending with the children, etc. Also, if she really wants to move out you may not be able to stop it. So it might be better to be supportive of her instead. As far as the affair goes, any ultimatums you make may have the effect of driving her away. I think she must have a significant amount of stuff to work out before she will even understand things herself. So, it sounds to me like the strategy you have already is the best one. I feel for you, it is impossible to know how long this will go on or what the outcome will be. Just do the best you can, in the end you will do better than you think you are doing at the time.<P>You might want to consider moving your posts over to the "infidelity" board. I've looked around there, and it's chalk full of people who are either in or have been in exactly the same boat as you. Also, some former "cheaters" post, (although not as many, I think because cheaters have a really hard time accepting they did anything wrong) so sometimes they can offer really good insight as to what might be happening in your wife's head. Also, you could get a lot of advice from people about what worked for one person and what didn't work for another. All I know for sure is once the lawyers are involved, things get much harder. Only the children can save your marriage after that, I think. But I don't really know. Like I said before, my marriage was over before I even had a chance. My ex was pretty aggressive about making sure she got exactly what she wanted before I had a chance to react. Before I even knew what was going on, really.<BR>

confused;<P>It's really tough to start to learn these new "good" marriage behaviors, and then not slap your wife with a demand to end the affair "or else"...<P>But if you've been a demanding, selfish person, and she doesn't love you very much right now, a demand or ultimatum would only serve to drive her away.<P>I spent nearly 6 months in the "Plan A" that you're doing right now. Same situation: my wife was having her affair "in the open" after I discovered it (and at least she was starting to use honesty). We negotiated the kids out of visits to the OM. And we lived together---her visits were less frequent than your wife's visit, so it wasn't constant.<P>So, in my case, I did six months of plan A followed by two months of plan B (separation). Plan B ended unconventionally when my wife ended up pregnant and started having an emotional breakdown. I came home (back to plan A), but the affair was still "going" (down the tubes, thankfully). The affair ended after a couple of months home, and then my wife went through about four months of withdrawal. Since then, we've been improving pretty steadily, and now have a marriage that is much better in nearly all aspects than it ever was.<P>We've still been doing joint counseling with Steve, but we've let that slide a bit due to a busy summer.<P>I'm glad that Steve has been able to help you. Keep with the plan A effort, and the two of you will probably know when it's time to shift to a Plan B separation.

K- W isn`t in counseling with me. Won`t talk to him. Doesn`t want to try. She is still working on finances to find her own place. <BR>nonplused- W says it`s over between us but still hasn`t left. I haven`t given her any ultimatums. Don`t plan to. She won`t even acknowledge being with Om. Says it doesn`t make a difference, it isn`t about that. It`s about us and she doesn`t want to be married anymore.

confused;<P>My wife only did a couple of sessions with Steve during the affair period (and she HATED him). But after the affair was over, she acknowledged that I had made "miraculous" changes, and it was like being married to a new, more thoughtful person.<P>And now she says that she values Steve's insight, so that's quite a change.<P>It'd be great if your wife would talk to him, but if she won't, it's your job in plan A to show her the "miraculous" changes.

Well, I think the affair does make a difference, and it is about that. It isn't about the two of you and she might not want to be married right now, but that won't last forever. However, these are things she has to realize on her own. She won't be able to see any of it because of the emotional craziness that is going on in her head right now. I wish there was a way to explain things like this to people but there isn't. They just get more adamant that they are right. My ex certainly did. It's like trying to explain to an alcoholic that drinking is ruining their life. A drunk just won't see it until after his life is ruined. No amount of talking can change human nature, only the strong hand of time.

Confused.........<P> Sorry have not been around or responding as much. There is alot going on with me. I have been still reading your posts though. So have not forgot about you. I am sorry for what you are going through. But there is a light out there for you because i have have finally found mine. Took me 2 years so thats the only bad part. But this light that have found was worth waiting for I see that now. Please keep writing so I know whats going on with you. You are in my prayers dear. Chin up or at least try. If you want to know more about me let me know.

I don`t think she has noticed any changes. Keeps brining up all the old things from the past. I tried to tell her things aren`t like that anymore. It`s like talking to a brick wall. She really started to let me have it this morning. Everything was my fault. I guess I shouldn`t have but I fired back abiut the motel bill I found and her affair. she denied she is seeing someone and then told me it was none of my business. Sometimes I wonder why I keep trying. She will not bend at all. I talked to Steve about this and he said she may have to leave before she see any other view other than her own. Not to push her out or even suggest it, but let her do it on her owm. i still can`t believ the way she treats me, after I of these years. I would never do to her what she is doing to me no matter what happens.<BR>Wonder- what`s up with you?

Confused......<P> Alot is up with me. And alot went down around here yesterday. I don't really want to write all of it in this forum though. I know you know where I have been here the last few months. Do you have an e-mail address? If don't want to give it out I understand. Please let me know. How are things going with you lately? You have not wrote here the last couple days. Keep me informed please.

wonder- things haven `t been going too good around my place either. You can Email me at notmyname4@yahoo.com Would like to hear from you. The lies are getting too much. Tough to live with them each day.