<BR>I have been married for 11 years to a man who I knew from the start that I did not love the same way my mom loved my dad. Two kids. Found a friend who turned out to be my soul mate....yes.....on-line. We have met face to face and it is just as real in person as it is on-line. Do you stay where you are not happy for the sake of the kids and a two parent home?

Be very, VERY careful. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you haven't known this on-line person long. You have just met him. You are experiencing strong feelings of being in-love and right now, it's mostly with a fantasy of exchanged typing. <P>You have invested 11 years with your husband. Your situation sounds a lot like mine--16 years with a very nice, compatible man and 2 kids, and yes, I too wished for a relationship like my mom and dad's and simply didn't have it. Even from the beginning. We loved each other, but weren't "in-love." I thought it would get better, waited for change. Outwardly, we had the perfect marriage. But my emotional needs were not being met and there I was on-line, ripe for an affair. I found my "soul mate." I have since re-married and to another man, in my case NOT the man I fancied my soul mate.<P>You've got to separate it in your mind. Are you ready to leave your husband regardless of what happens with this other man? What if it doesn't work out? Would you wish you had stayed? <P>If you would like to exchange e-mail, I'd be happy to give you my address. <P>------------------<BR>Laura<P>"I cannot care a little for you. I love you only just enough to love you all the way."~~Rod McKuen<BR>

Inlove.......<P> I am also like you. I am not in love with my husband. Have not been for about 2 years maybe longer. But thats when I realized it was 2 years ago. But mine I did not meet on line. Don't get me wrong at one time I thought I was in love with a man on line. He was married also. We were there for each other in time of need. Well then he decided he should have never got involved and well guess what I got burned. Anyways we are still friends and thats ok with me now. Ya know something though. I have come to realize that your bad lessons might be what I needed for this good one to come into my life. I like you have stayed so far for my kids. But in time I will move on. There are a few things I need straigtened out first. I feel that my husband needs another. That I am not the right one for him. And I know hes not right for me anymore. Not really sure if he ever was. But whats past is past we cannot go back. But I prayed to God here for 2 years to bring someone into my life who was just as giving as I. And guess what he did. I know alot of people think it is wrong. But in my heart life is just to damn short to be unhappy. And I don't think God wants me to stay unhappy for ever. This man has done for me and me him in a short amount of time then my spouse has in years. Both this man and I have married takers. We are both givers. You know what it feels like to be put first again. I never ever have had that now I know what it feels like. We both have promised communication,honesty, and never to lie because thats the kind of marriage we both have had. We never want that again. Yes we are planning on being together. Its not what some might think. We have alot in common where I ha ve nothing hardly in common with hubby. We were both raised the sameways etc. But right now we are building for a solid foundation and that means the world to both of us. So in love I say go with your heart dear. If you are unhappy then find that happiness when you can. I believer now in the saying good things come to those who wait. Or good things come when you least expect it. Life dear is just do damn short. Thanks for listening.

inloveonline:<P>Post your story over at "infidelity" and you'll get a more complete response.<P>You don't love your husband because the two of you lack "skills" necessary to help encourage love, not because of any magic chemistry. Your on-line affair is a wake-up call, to you and your husband, to make your marriage work. You have a responsibility to start immediately, and I'd suggest that you absorb everything on this site (especially basic concepts and focus on the "Four rules for a successful marriage"). You should break off this affair immediately, and tell your husband (and start marriage counseling).<P>What happens if you don't? You get my situation. My wife did the same thing as you did (2 kids, 10th year of marriage). On-line affair. She met the OM. We ended up moving half-way across the country to within a couple hours of him (coincidence). The affair became full-blown, and after several months I discovered it. She was really emotionally entrapped in her new love. I started marriage counseling here with Steve Harley, learning to show my wife the love she wanted. We went through a separation. She got pregnant by the OM, and then the affair started to crumble (and they almost always do---99% of the time). We reconciled, and have been in recovery for a little over a year. Our marriage isn't perfect, but it's much better than it ever has been, and we're both working on making it wonderful. And my wife has never been happier. And the family is intact, and we have a wonderful new edition.<P>You can choose to take our path. You can choose to have an affair that WILL end with you even more unhappy. Or you can do something about your marriage NOW. Please consider my advice, and start working now. Steve Harley at MarriageBuilders is great to talk to, and I'd suggest that you read "Surviving an Affair" to see the typical dynamics that affairs go through. You're just starting out down this path---it gets much harder to stop the farther you go, and you'll end up doing much more harm to yourself (to say nothing of your children and your husband) if you go farther.

Inloveonline:<P>Not to beat up on Wonder, but that's exactly the kind of response you'll get from someone who was unhappy in a marriage, lacked the skills and knowledge to do something about it, and started an affair (which is her situation, in my opinion).<P>"Follow your heart" is about the worse advice to give a woman. It's similar to telling a man to follow his... well, you know...<P>You will be better off learning the marriage skills you need right now: learning to eliminate lovebusters, learning to meet emotional needs, being completely honest with your spouse, and spending time with them. You've probably not done that in your current marriage, and your husband hasn't either. Switching partner's is usually an ineffective way to fix those issues, because you never address the source of the problem (the lack of knowledge and marriage skills). Wonder's "happy relationship" will probably turn unhappy in a few years---most second and third marriages fail more often than the first---and that's because the root cause of the problem hasn't been addressed.

K.............<P> Thanks for your upbeat input on ME. You don't know me from squat here. My spouse and I have been to counceling and I was in thereapy alone. HELLO My thereapist even told me I was not in love with him anymore. ANd yes she was the same one that saw us both. Well glad you and wife got things worked out. Ya ever figure some people just are not meant to be together. And some are. All you that think marriage your vows etc make me want to spit sometimes. Just cause some of you work it out does not always mean its best for everybody. Like I have tryed to get my feelings back for 2 years. Oh yes BTW dear he was a drinker since we meet. I was the mommy to him the sitter his ride when he got drunk. But you probably did not ask me any of that. You just assumed I was a bad wife and found another. Well for your infomation I was not even looking. Yeh I know what the statistics are for second and third but can't be any unhappier then I am now. Besides we are starting out with communication,honesty,no lieing etc. And not sleeping together either. To me its best to build a foundation first then see where we go. We both feel alive again. I never thought anybody could make me feel that way again. As for spouse and sexual needs OMG hes never meet those either; Was fun for years smelling a brewery when you had SEX was not making love thats for sure. I just wanted to get it over with. I for all these years took care and still do the finances,shopping,cars appointments should I go on. You call that a partnership. I sure don't I call that a one way relationship but he got the best of it all cause I did it for 15 years including dating and he sat back and did what he wanted to do. So now you may argue about how unhappy I WILL PROBABLY be in 2 to 3 years. Can't get any worse thats for damn sure. BTW if we do end up together be sure to come here in 2 years and tell you how I am doing. So if you think I was a little put out by your comments your right. And yes I know everyone has there opinions but you did not even ask my situations you just assumed the worst in me.

K.......<P> The last letter the dating word was suppose to be driving. Drove him all the time when drunk.

Wonder,<P>Actually, I thought I was pretty up-to-date with your situation. And you have it very, very tough---there is no doubt about that. Dealing with an alcoholic spouse sucks. I've never assumed that you were a bad wife or mother; just someone who is in a bad marital situation who hasn't been able to fix it.<P>But, it doesn't give you an excuse for more self-destructive behavior, such as an affair. And that's what you're doing now. And you're rationalizing it the same way that all unfaithful spouses do...<P>"I wasn't looking for it"<P>"I am not in love with my husband."<P>"I never thought anybody could make me feel that way again. "<P>Wonder---I don't think horribly of you. But I will not be silent when you tell someone to go ahead and have an affair. And I won't be silent in that it's my opinion that you should deal with your marriage FIRST and then move on to a new relationship. You should probably divorce your husband---you're not doing anyone any favors by staying in the marriage now. And I am extremely pro-marriage, but it's very hard with an alcoholic spouse (I would have at least recommended a separation first---but you've seemingly lost any love you had for your husband).<P>So really, I don't wish you ill or think you horrible. I hope you can find happiness, but it's my belief that you're going about it in a very selfish, self-destructive way. And yes, I bet you can feel even worse than you do now---because up until your affair, you hadn't committed that big of a "sin". And an affair weighs very heavy on one's soul when it's over. So you'll have that to deal with for your self-esteem, too; and it's not fun.<P>So you have my sympathy. And my advice. And I'll support you in whatever way I can, but not in having an affair.<p>[This message has been edited by K (edited August 06, 1999).]

K..........<P><BR> I did not ask for your support. To me I guess I am to the point what makes me happy. You get to that point after you have been depressed,unhappy etc. Oh don't I know its wrong about seeing another. But like I said we are making plans. Besides spouse told me way back maybe I do need someone else to make me happy again. I told him the same. Yes living with a drinker was hell. Hes a better person now that he quit. But not for me. He even admitted he needs to find someone who knows him who is now not who he was. I think dear we both know where this marriage is headed. He has threatened to leave at least 4 times but never does. I wanted him to told him to go. Well then he uses excuses about the kids. So yes as soon as I see an attorney and get me another part time job and no thats not an excuse then I will move on. I know kids make it twice as hard too. Lord knows I don't want to hurt anybody. But I have been hurting long enough. Guess you need to walk in someone elses shoes to see the whole picture. He destroyed all my feelings for him himself. He knows that too. I really think in my heart he was never really ready to marry me. He just never grew up. his friends and partying were more important to him then his wife. Actually I told him he pushed his wife aside along time ago. First came his drinking,then friends then kids. I got left out of that picture. So now he needs another to fulfill his life again and that cannot be me. Like I said before if I end up alone without a spouse so be it. Its better then having to watch every move you make every word you say and be and live on the defense side. Well K thats where I am. Sorry you don't see my needs but all I know is they need meet and this new person knows me better then hubby ever did or try to do. Take care all not sure I will be back here anymore.<BR>

<watching tennis match between Wonder and K><P><popping popcorn><P>inloveonline: What I was trying to say in my earlier post (but was rushing and typing incoherently)--decide what to do about your marriage first, before you toss in more confusion. <P>A new romance always feels wonderful, and "better" than what you've got. It's exciting, thrilling, and everyone is on their best behavior. That's why you don't really "know" this new man. You only know what he's allowed you to see so far.<P>Were/are you truly unhappy in your marriage, or just bored? Without good communication skills, even a very compatible marriage can seem dull. Unmet emotional needs that with some adjustments, MIGHT be met?<P>It could genuinely be that you made a mistake when you married your H. BUT...there was something there, in the beginning, that made you want to marry him. What was it? What would it take to get that feeling back again?<P>I am divorced, and now remarried. I love my H very much...and as he can say also of HIS first marriage, I wish I had known what to do to make my first marriage work...to have saved everyone the heartache of our separation and divorce. As you can guess, it was a terrible time. I CAN say the same thing you're feeling--we didn't truly love each other, we weren't "right" for each other, I lacked his patience, he lacked my passion, on and on. Truths yes...but also excuses. The REAL truth is, finally, we both simply gave up. We didn't have the tools to haul ourselves out of the muck of our own making, and after a time, didn't care any more. If there is any one thing that gives me peace about our decision, it's that it was mutual. In our parting, we found the key--talking. BOTH of us talking, listening AND hearing. And that felt good, even as we were walking out the door.<P>Will you think about doing something? Talk to your husband. Tell him your feelings, all of them--the good, bad and ugly. And listen to his. Reallllllly listen. You might be surprised. Promise me you'll do this.<P>And please don't feel in a rush over the OM. If it's meant to be, no amount of time will be too long to make sure you're doing the right thing...but not enough time can be totally destructive. You have made a family with your H...the possibilities of saving your marriage deserve your greatest consideration.<P>:-)<P>------------------<BR>Laura<P>"I cannot care a little for you. I love you only just enough to love you all the way."~~Rod McKuen<BR>

your advise was welcomed. I can tell you that I have lost countless hours of sleep over the guilt of an affair. My marriage how ever has been over for years. My husband has not kissed me on the mouth for over five years. No, I love yous, we just share an address and kids. He is not always so happy to see me either. My on-line affair started out over a year ago as a faceless, nameless reply to my on-line journal. As time went on we became friends, dependent on each other, then finally we admitted we fell in love on line. We live five hours away from each other, but still manage to spend time together, have a huge phone bill! My question still has not been answered. My question is, do you as an adult owe it to your kids to put your happiness on the back burner so your children can have a two parent home? Help?<BR>R2

I am on the opposite end of your boat. While a good person my wife does not love me. I woudl initiate a divorce except that I would so deeply miss my kids. My wife has promised joint custody but this would greatly disrupt their lives. My wife and I are good friends and my kids are young. Although it hurts deeply to have a wife who does not want my hugs or touch, I am actually happy in most of my life. The touch and love of a woman could not fulfill the hurt at not being home to see my children. If your husband would feel the same, perhaps your question was answered. Lastly, I once heard a quote which is my motto in life. "The grass is always greener on the other side, but it needs mowed also."

Your question--"do you as an adult owe it to your kids to put your happiness on the back burner so your children can have a two parent home?"<P>The simple answer is....yes.<P>However, do you have the right to pursue your happiness while providing them the best loving and comfortable environment possible? Your happiness is important to them too.<P>I still say....talk to your husband. Tell him he hasn't kissed you on the mouth in 5 years, nor said I love you, and that your emotional needs are not being met. Listen to what he says.<P>A by the way....surely your kids have noticed this too. Children learn about relationships from watching their parents interact.<P>I'm not telling you what to do...that is no one's job but your own. I would just hope for you that you are sure, whatever you decide to do.<P>------------------<BR>Laura<P>"I cannot care a little for you. I love you only just enough to love you all the way."~~Rod McKuen<BR>

inloveonline,<P>I completely agree with Lucks: you do owe it to your children to do the best job you can. And to your husband, and yourself too.<P>If you look at what Lucks is saying about her first divorce, it probably wasn't a real incompatability (which is rare)---it was not knowing how to deal with the problems. Not being able to communicate. Not being able to break the bad habits that the marriage got into.<P>You can have the marriage that you want, with your current husband. But you've got to try. There are resources available: again, I'd recommend counseling with a MarriageBuilder-familiar counselor. But to give your marriage a chance, you won't be able to remain friends with your OM. You've got to cut it off. You just will need to realize that this guy isn't a "one-in-a-million", but he's more like a "one-in-ten". Should you not recover your marriage, you'll be able to find love again. And if you go through the program of learning marriage skills, you'll learn how to make that love last, so you won't be faced with the decision you're looking at now.

Inlove.........<P> I learned through thereapy that kids survive. She once told me that no matter what if you stay or divorce kids survive. In fact she also told me to think about this.When your kids grow and then you decide to leave. They might ask why did you stay married if you were not happy? She said think about it if you tell them I stayed for you kids. They will come back with well don't blame us because you were not happy. Its like they will not take the blame of your unhappiness. Do you understand what I am saying. Kids see right through our pretending they are not stupid. My oldest knows I have talked to him. I have told him no matter what happens it was not your fault or your brothers. Hon think about it if you stay and feel you cannot love him or he does not love you. You cannot take back all those years that you stayed and you were not happy. You have to reach deep down and decide what you really want. The kids will survive no matter what they will always have you as there mother and him as there father. Also one other think have you ever watched Mrs. Doubtfire? If you have think about what he says at the end of that movie. About there are so many different kinds of families. That is how I feel when you have asked about should you stay for kids sake or find that happiness. Life is to short my dear who knows if we have tommorrow. My one thought that has always scared me is if I did go tommorrow I would go unhappy and that scares me to death. I don't want that at all. So please keep us informed. Chin up I hope I made since here to you.

Wonder--<BR>I respect your opinions, but honestly, they disturb me. I'm not exactly sure why...it feels like I'm reading your encouragement of inloveonline to go for the OM. And that kids are so resilient it is unnecessary to consider the family nucleus as top priority? <P>No offense intended!<P>inloveonline--<BR>You and H went into the marriage together, and in agreement. Will you please give him the courtesy of talking to him first, before you make any decisions. He deserves to know how close he is to big changes occurring that affect both of you, and your kids. :-)<P>K--<BR>Your assessment of my first marriage is right on the money. We were actually quite compatible in many ways. It was poor communication habits more than anything.<P>K says "But to give your marriage a chance, you won't be able to remain friends with your OM. You've got to cut it off." Yes, I just can't imagine this friendship falling under the Policy of Joint Agreement. :-)<P><P>------------------<BR>Laura<P>"I cannot care a little for you. I love you only just enough to love you all the way."~~Rod McKuen<BR>

Luck.........<P> Well you read me really wrong. I am not giving ok to see another man. I am telling her to make herself happy. In time she will know what that is. We all go into marriages for love or so we think. But HELLOOOOOOO people change and in my eyes if they fall out of love then it happens. There are always circumstances why and some well just might not be. Mine well never was a wife always a mother watching him drink. So feelings got lost. After I looked at this man I mean really looked at him I found out he lost my love for taking me for granted to way to long. And yes been through everything everybody has said. Sorry its just not there. So I need to move on just as he does. And I am working on that. No I don't want to hurt anybody either. Especailly my kids but I am hurting them now living here with him like a roomate. So they see that too. So I was saying to INLOVE think about what you want what can make you happy. If you don't love him then talk to him. Tell him you want out then find that one true love that might be out there for her. Sorry you don't think I am honest but I say whats in my heart and if people don't like it thats just to bad. See ya people.

Ok gals and guys,,,,,,,,,It is hard to describe this marriage I have. Husband is not the type of person who will talk or express how he feels or even try to understand how I feel. I would have one time done anything for him, now I look forward for those times when he is at work.<BR>New man was long after marriage was over, new man gives me confidence in myself. He tells me how kind and gentle and smart and all those things we all like to hear, because he believes them.....love is blind on his part!!! Husband does not even say Hi, I have to feel him out when he comes home to see what kind of mood he is in before I speak to him. I am just tired of being his mom, nanny, housekeeper. I want someone to talk to me, not at me. to share with, but at the same time I have always been a supporter of the two parent family. New man is married too, three kids. but is willing to leave wife and bring the three of us into his home. Not sure that is fair to my kids. Move them to a new state, new friends, away from Grandma? I just wish I knew what to do. I am going crazy trying to sort it all out.

inloveonline:<P>You've got a perspective problem. You're smack in the middle of an affair, and it feels really good. Your husband is a piece of crap, and this guy is the "one-in-a-million" that Wonder is talking about.<P>The only problem is that what you have is a FANTASY. It's not real. You're not living with the OM. Your not subjecting him to all your "lovebusters", and he's not doing it to you right now. You're in the midst of dating---almost all dating relationships are exciting and new, and give rise to those romantic feelings.<P>Here are the facts:<P>1. Affairs rarely lead to stable relationships. <P>Think of it---you're lying and cheating on your marriage. He's doing the same things to his marriage. You are both disregarding what's best for your children and families, because you're unhappy in the marriage and you don't have a clue as to what to do. What this guy is telling you is that if you run off with him, he'll give up HIS CHILDREN to take your and yours in. He sounds like just a wonderful stepfather (NOT).<P>Realistically, look at the basis of this relationship, and it doesn't stand a chance of working out. But I can see it teaching 5 children irresponsible, immoral behavior; and I can see it tearing their lives apart. For the happiness and bliss of a fantasy.<P>2. You and your husband have fallen out of love with each other. <P>Certainly that responsibility lies on your husband's shoulders, but you must take responsibility too. Which of the "Four Rules" aren't you following now? You're clearly "lovebusting" in that you're being dishonest. You're beating the Rule of Complete Honesty up left and right---cheating on your husband, not letting him know how desparate you feel, not telling him about this affair. You're probably not meeting your husband's emotional needs either; and I'm guessing that you're not spending quality time with him.<P>That's not to say that your husband doesn't have a ton of work to do in this marriage; but he's not here. You are. And just because you feel like you're getting the short end of the stick, that doesn't let you off your marriage vows. For better, for worse...<P>3. You and your husband did love each other.<P>At one time, you were happily in love. I'm telling you that you can do it again, and it can be BETTER than the first time. If you work at it, you can build your marriage to something that's better.<P>4. You and your husband lack the marriage skills that would have allowed your love to grow as you changed. <P>This is a big one. The premise of MarriageBuilders is to learn the skills (behaviors) it takes to have a successful marriage. You had to learn skills to drive a car; it's a shame that they don't make you take a course to learn how to have a great marriage. Learning these skills through behavioral-based counseling is not hard: I started on it and within a few weeks I had changed aspects of my behavior that I thought were immutable. You can do this. Your husband can do this. It's not going to be "fun" at first, but you should see rapid progress.<P>If you leave your husband for this guy, guess what??? You STILL haven't learned the skills. And I bet he hasn't either. You're currently meeting each other's needs by pure luck. And in the insulated bubble of an affair, that's particularly easy (especially when the affair is mainly on-line/phone). When you start to have a real relationship with this guy, he'll turn out to be less than the knight in shining armor that you imagined him. And he's not going to find you to be the sweet princess either. Your relationship will crumble---faster because it was based on lies, deceit, and immoral behavior.<P><BR>All right. I've given you the "reasons". Now, what do you do? Here are some choices.<P>1. Start counseling immediately (preferrably with a behavioral-based marriage counselor familiar with Harley's material---even Steve Harley himself). You will need to tell your husband of your affair. You will need to cut off all communication with this man. You will need to be accountable for your actions. Your husband will need to learn to be supportive, start meeting your needs, discontinue "lovebusting" behavior. With good counseling, you can be over this hurdle in 6-9 months, you'll be much happier in your life, happier with your husband, and very grateful that you've got your family intact.<P>2. If you can't do that and want to "explore" your affair, I suggest that you do it in the open. Have all your family (husband, kids, parents, in-laws), and all your OM's family (wife, kids, his parents, in-laws) sit down in a room together. Announce to them your intentions of building a new family together. If your love is so wonderful and so good, I'm sure everyone will be very supportive.<P>3. I bet you didn't like #2. Your final alternative, the "easy" out, is to continue the affair. It's puts off the hard decisions of #1 and #2, but it's the most common choice for people in your position. And you should go over to post on the infidelity board ---what you'll see is by delaying this decision, you'll trap yourself in a web of deceit and lies. The affair will snowball. You'll feel more and more helpless to do anything about it. Your life will spin out of control; you'll have a harder time escaping the reality of what you're doing to your life, the lives of your children and husband. But the time with the OM will be like a blissful "high". You'll be an addict---and just like crack or heroin, you'll need to hit a very low bottom before you will be forced to do something about it.<P>Inloveonline: my wife did #3. Even with me changing my behaviors, and doing counseling, she did #3. She came close to taking her own live, the life of the unborn baby, and our other two children. Take it from me, you don't want to go in that direction. And even though she did this---we still recovered our marriage, and have something very special. But it's taken a lot of work, and much more time than if we had addressed the issues sooner.<P>Please consider #1.<P>And there are alternatives, like stopping the affair and not saying a word. I don't agree with that scenario: while I disagree with Wonder on a lot of things, I agree completely that you shouldn't be stuck in a loveless marriage for the kids. And if you don't learn these skills, you will be sentencing yourself to that. So, learn the skills. And part of that is complete honesty, so you won't get off the hook. I understand your frustration at the situation you have---I'd love to have the opportunity to write your husband, but I don't right now. One person can make a difference in a marriage. That person needs to be you right now.

Inlove........<P> Dear I know what feels like to have to feel them out see what mood they are in. Then ya see them get home from work and say crap there he is. Fun isn't it NOT. If that man makes you feel alive again then tell hubby everything and maybe its just time for you to start over and be happy. Yes it will be hard for kids but better then seeing you on edge all the time. I bet they would love to see you happy smiling again etc all the time. My dear if you would like to write me personally please let me know I think we both have alot alot in common here. Be nice to talk to you. Please let me know. Keep me informed. Thanks and keep our chins up.