I met my husband in a way that I am not proud of. We were associates at work and became fast friends. He shared with me the problems he was having in his marriage and I shared with him my problems being a single mom. After 2 years of being each others confidant, we started having feelings for each other. We began an affair too soon after he and his wife decided that it was time to separate. He had not even moved out of the house yet and his wife was having second thoughts on the separation idea. We ended the affair and I told him to work on his marriage. Within a month he had moved out and we were going strong. We married one year after his divorce was final. My husband had an affair during his first marriage and I was the second woman he had a relationship with while he was legally married to his first wife. We have talked extensively about our problems with previous relationships and the reasons he was unfaithful. He is very insistant that he has never known love before me and I do believe him. He has a tremendous amount of respect for the marital araingment now as do I. The idea of being unfaithful or participating in an affair with a married person makes me feel even worse about how we became a couple, but we both feel that we have learned a valuable lesson and it is one we are not proud of. My problem is this: when his job requires him to travel, I can't help but think of what he has done in the past. If he calls me too late, I wonder where he's been and when he tells me, I doubt him. I search his luggage and check his underwear and collars when he gets home and have him tell me over and over again what he did for dinner, etc. He gets so frustrated and I am ashamed I feel this way. . but I know what we are both capable of. He reminds me that we were both ONCE capbable of those horrible things and that the thought doesn't cross his mind even once when we aren't together and that our love is real and strong. What the hell is wrong with me and will I ever get over this? Please do not lecture me on infidelity or that I am a horrible person for being with a married man. We have been married for 4 years and we are very happy as is his ex, but this is an issue that arrises every time he has to travel, which is about 3 times a year.

Hi Wyf,<BR>I almost cried when I read your story, it is EXACTLY like mine, and as a matter of fact, I tried several times last night to post a question to this board and kept deleting my post because I think others here have so much worse problems than the jealousy I have.<BR>But since we're on the subject, I know how you feel. It feels like you can't breathe as long as he is not physically with you, the shame you feel when you ask him for the 47th time why he was 2.3 minutes late in coming/calling home, checking his pager. Walking from window to window waiting for him to come home. I stop myself (through serious effort) just short of asking friends at work (we work at the same place) to "keep an eye" on him for me. Do you make accusations too? I have made some seriously nasty ones, but since coming here I have toned down my questioning. Usually now I just remind him (ONCE) that if he is going to be over an hour late that he should call. <BR>I have been married to him for almost 5 years and am finally beginning to relax and believe him that the only reason that he went outside his first marriage (no matter how wrong it was, and we both believe it was) was that he had been told for 25 years that he was an embarrassment and that he was worthless and should leave. He was also scratched (I saw his arms/face on several occasions where it had happened) and had things thrown at him. He would never hit a woman and except for holding her arms away from himself never defended himself. <BR>I have a couple more questions for you, Wyf - Is he good to you? If so, please, Please, PLEASE give him the benefit of the doubt. If you can't completely trust him, at least take one day at a time and don't dream up a problem that probably doesn't exist except in your (mine as well) mind. Have you ever caught him in a lie? If not, accept him at face value and just love him. This is getting very long, so I will go but I will check back here later today (Sunday) to see how you're doing.<BR>Take care,<BR>Janice<BR>

OOPS! Sorry I double-clicked!!<P>JT<p>[This message has been edited by JaniceT (edited August 15, 1999).]

Ladies,<P>I think you both have good reason to worry. Especially if they've never gotten some help for their issues. By starting affairs with you while they were still married, it sounds like they are conflict avoiders. Rather than work on their problems head on with the person involved, they go to another and confide in them. Not good. Also, your H's have demonstrated that fidelity is not high on their lists. If things are going well in your marriages, then it'll probably be okay, but if either of them start becoming distant, stop communicating with you, or your marriage just gets in a rut like all marriages do, then you are going to have to hope that your H's don't do as they did in the past and start confiding in someone else about their problems with you. I don't know, if I were in your situation I would not rely on their trustworthiness or leave anything to chance. Good luck.

What "issues" of my husband's are you speaking of, Lark? As I didn't mention any of HIS issues to Wyf, I was just wondering which ones you are referring to. Since you are among the many people that think the one who leaves (especially if it is the man) is ALWAYS 100% at fault, I will address this to you.<BR> The fact that he stayed in a marriage where he was physically and mentally abused for many years was proof enough that he is not a "conflict avoider" as you stated. Do you know how much courage it must have taken for him to try to work things out for so many years with absolutely no support at all? He stayed until his children were grown and many times sought counseling alone because the ex said there was nothing wrong with her. By the way, I can't help but think that if he had been a woman with the same story of physical abuse, you would have been encouraging her to leave the miserable $%@!% immediately.<BR>I can't speak for Wyf, but as for fidelity being high on my H's list, he and I would have never been more than nodding acquaintances had he been married to someone who showed ANY interest at all in repairing their marriage. The examples I have given are not only his accounts of their marriage, but those of his mother and sisters who had some idea what was going on between them. <BR>Do I sound angry? I am. You imply in your post that because I have some issues of my own (hmmm, let's see, insecurity being the biggie that I have been trying to deal with since my teenage years), that it is because I have married a man that can't be trusted any farther than I can throw him.<BR>

I do not go as far as Janice in that I obsess over what he is doing when he is not with me, it's only when he is traveling. I really feel for you Janice. Your husband was in a really bad marriage before you. My husband married his ex wife 3 days after they graduated from college and felt that since they were dating, marriage must be the next logical step. They both went through counciling after the divorce because it was the only way they could do what was best for their daughter. This is my issue and I really think that Lark is right - when the marriage is great, I have no worries, but if there ever comes a time when our marriage gets in a rut I can see how I can start to worry. Thanks for the feedback

LovingWyf,<P>You're welcome. Sounds like you have your eyes wide open. Maybe you could try some counseling with your H so that you can share with him your insecurities. Your H's first marriage certainly sounds like it was in haste. I don't believe once a cheater, always a cheater, but I do feel that if a person is a conflict or intimacy avoider, unless they acknowledge and improve in those areas, history may repeat itself.<P>Janice,<P>THOSE are the issues I was referring to. If the shoe doesn't fit for your H, then that's great. I was just offering my opinion and some suggestions. If you are convinced that YOU are the only one with issues, then why don't you do something about it? Rather than be defensive, counseling could help you. Good day.

Janice and wyf:<P>Because of the history of infidelity in your relationships, it's natural to worry about it. It's also a problem that tends to reoccur, and it's something that you should probably address.<P>I'd suggest that you use the "MarriageBuilders" material as a marital enrichment program, and strenghten your marriages now and learn the skills you need to keep them going. Learning the skills to execute the "Rules" of Protection, Care, Time and Honesty is what you could be working on. In the area of your husband traveling, Wyf, why don't you use the Policy of Joint Agreement to try to work out a "win-win" solution to the issue. You could travel with him on some trips (perhaps), or he could cut back on these trips. There are lots of options to explore, but you need to communicate with complete honesty (and without lovebusters).

Lark and Wyf,<BR>Please accept my apologies for my last post "defending" my position. I'm not sure what I expected to get back in response to my first my post, but Lark your answer really struck a nerve. I guess I came here hoping to get a pat on the head and hear that everything was going to be hearts and flowers and instead you told me what I didn't want to hear which was the truth. Thank you for that even though I didn't react too favorably to it at the time. <BR>I know this marriage is going to take special effort and I just don't know what to expect. I really believe that one of my problems is that I try to make up for all the bad things that happened to H in his past and try to make his life SOOOOO happy that I suffocate him. What a way to go!! <BR>Oh, another thing. In reading my post again, I made him sound like a saint - - he ain't. He can get quiet and moody and when I ask, "Nothing" is wrong. I have also learned to limit my asking to ONCE. Not 38 times per hour like I used to. <BR>By the way, I tried counseling a couple months ago and I think it was helpful but honestly I can't afford to keep going. Our company paid for the first 3 visits and after that, insurance doesn't pay at all. <BR>Anyway, I just wanted to tell you both how sorry I am that I was rude - especially you Lark since I directed my tirade at you. <BR>In case you're wondering, no we did not have a fight, I just felt terrible that I "said" those things to you in that tone and although this is not the first time I've thought about it, this is the first time I've had a chance to post since then. If you have any more suggestions, I would like to hear them and I assure you they will not be received with the hostility that the first ones were.<BR>Thank you,<BR>Janice

To Janice and LovingWife<P>I hear you as far as marrying the man that you had an affair with. I too am married to a man that I had an affair with and you are right. It's something your not proud of. When ever I see shows on tv regarding the issue it makes me feel sick to my stomach. I am not proud of it and neither is my husband. Actually, we never discuss our affair with anybody or each other. I know I sound like a person tossing rocks when I live in a glass house, but it is wrong and if I had it to do over again, I'd do it differently. Not by staying with my ex, because I don't regret being married to my current husband, but I would have ended my first marriage differently. I do not believe that once your a cheater you'll always be one either. I have learned from past experience and would never ever do it again. Do I ever get jealous? Well to be honest....yes...Of who? His ex wife. It's not because he ever, ever gives me reason to either. My husband and I use marriage builders to make sure that our second marriage stays strong and healthy. We practice everything that is discussed on these boards. Our communication is strong, our intimacy is strong and we share common interests. He co-parents well with his ex but their discussions are ONLY about the children. But, I know that after three years she still loves him and would take him back in a minute. She went from wearing glasses and no makeup to contacts, makeup and new clothes. She has the kids call every couple of days to remind him that he doesn't live with them anymore and when he returns the kids she reminds him that he left them (mind you, we have his kids at least 40% of the time). I know that he feels no guilt about leaving his wife but he does about his children. This was a struggle with him before he did get divorced. But, like I already stated, he never gives any indication that he wishes he were still married too her. But let me tell you, it keeps me on my toes. I stay in top shape and work very hard at being the wife that he loves to come home too.

If I understand this correctly, your husband(s) left horrible, terrible, abusive marriages to be with you. But then, the reason for divorce cited 80% of the time is "mental cruelty". The other 20% of the time it's adultery or abandonment. So that means almost all of the people who have ever been left by somebody are terribly abusive and deranged. It's got to be nearly 40% of the population!! It's amazing, really. And the part I don't understand is these abusive ex's are allowed to see their children unsupervised. But if your husband says his first marriage was terrible and it was all his wife's fault, I would believe him. There are always exceptions to the norm. My guess is, while he was divorcing his wife you even saw all kinds of behavior from her that was not very nice. No reason to expect that was a result of the turmoil she was experiencing during the divorce. If she would have been nicer, maybe they never would have broken up.<P>And I wouldn't worry about him cheating again. Just because he has done it twice before, and experienced no negative consequences both times, doesn't mean he would do it again. He is obviously "in love" now in a way he never was before. He even told you so. I bet he never said that to his first wife. I think you are just suspicious. There is absolutely nothing to worry about. If you ask him, I'm sure he'll tell you exactly that.<P>"If you have a hunch, there's probably a reason for it".<P>That was a pretty snarky post, wasn't it. My apologies, I must be in a bad mood.

Hi,<BR>I cannot say that I am in the same position as either of you, but I do know that if you were to try Dr. Harley's procedures on this website that you might see your marriages improve. Check out the emotional needs, love busters, and rule of a successful marriage.<P>Give it a try, see what happens. <P>Hugz and prayers, Thoughtful<P>------------------<BR>To save your marriage use Dr. Harley's methods at <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/" TARGET=_blank>www.marriagebuilders.com/</A> <BR>