Well my anniversary was yesterday and all went pretty well considering my husband had to work. When he gave me my card and I read it I just broke down crying. For the first time in a very long, he really opened up in words as to how he was feeling and it made me feel good. (Keep in mind that on my birthday card just 1 1/2 weeks ago, he just signed off with Love Ya and his initials, talk about hurt).<p>I am going to put down what he wrote to me and I just want some expert opinions. I really do believe now that he is just really scared and I need more direction on how I can relieve the rest of his fears.<p>Here is what he wrote:<p>"I know this card is simple and a little corny but it probably best sums up what I need to do. I know you don't believe me when I say this is hard for me. But this is VERY hard for me being away. I am so scared that things will just go back to the same way they were before where we will fight over nothing and the fights will get carried away. I am so tired of doing that. I want to be able to get along and I wonder if that can happen. I am not sure if I can ever make you happy again. I am trying. I swear I am. Maybe I just don't know what to do anymore. We have both changed a lot. Maybe you are right, we need to get to know each other again. I just don't want to cause you or the kids any more pain. It kills me to do that. Thank you for the last six years. I know there have been rough spots but I would not have wanted to go through it with anyone else in the world. I Love You. Billy"<p>We had a really good talk after I read this card and for the first time, I really feel that he is ready to give our marriage 100%. We both talked about what needed to happen and I think we are going to be able to start making some compromises on each others needs.<p>I just need to know how I can get him to let his wall down even more so he will let me love him.<p>Let me know your thoughts please.<p>Thanks.<p>Michele

Wow Michele...<p>That's so powerful! I'm so excited for you! It was refreshing hearing what you husband FINALLY had to say! Once they get it out there, it's something you can really work with. It's the holding it inside that doesn't work for anyone!<p>Hope all are doing well! I'm so thrilled for you! Let us know how it goes... even though this is a divorce/divorcing location... the board is called Marriage Builders, so I'm very happy to see that some marriages are re-built!<p>Take care friend!<p>Nicole

Hey Nicole,<p>I really do see this as another brick in his big wall coming down and another huge step for us.<p>Now my next hurdle is how do I get him to let the rest of the wall down and assure him that home is a safe place for him again. During our conversation after him giving me my card, I told him that there are really only two choices for us left in our realtionship and they are to either face this head-on and together or for us to part ways. He is definitely not up for us parting ways but is still so scared to move home. How do I make it safe for him again? We talked over several things we both think need to happen as far as compromising on things in the relationship and for the first time, we actually agreed on a lot of them.<p>I know sticking to my Plan A is really important in showing him that home is safe for him but are there other ways to let him know that too. I also told him that he needs to start letting me love him again and he said "I know". For the last 4 nights, he has left here and told me "I Love You". He has know idea how important that is for me to hear and he has said it on his own.<p>For the first time since our separation, I really feel that he is starting to focus on our relationship now and is ready for the rest of the work we have ahead of us. I could use more help to continue to show him the way.<p>Thanks.<p>Michele<p>[ November 05, 2001: Message edited by: sballplyr ]</p>

(((((((MEESH))))))<p>That is soooo kewl&#8230;.. BTW happy anniversary, it sounds like you got one hell of a gift. <p>&#8220;&#8221;&#8221;I really feel that he is ready to give our marriage 100%.&#8221;&#8221;&#8221;<p>Please make sure that you are at the same spot. 100% and nothing less because I&#8217;m quite sure that this is scary for you too and you probably share the same feelings as Billy in his reservations.<p>From what I know of Billy and you I would say that one of your biggest hurdles is communication. So the question is how do we get over that hurdle for if it is knocked down or avoided the race will be over. I know that there are a lot of communication workshops, such as Retrouville, that focus on this hurdle.<p>&#8220;&#8221;&#8221;How do I make it safe for him again?&#8221;&#8221;&#8221;<p>Slowly!!!!! Not the answer you wanted to hear, right? The fact is you have some influence on this but the majority of this is going to have to come from Billy. As his bricks fall the safety will come. One bid thing is that when he backsteps, which you know will happen, don&#8217;t start piling the bricks back on his wall. Patience, my dear.<p>&#8220;&#8221;&#8221;For the last 4 nights, he has left here and told me "I Love You". He has know idea how important that is for me to hear and he has said it on his own.&#8221;&#8221;&#8221;<p>Yes he does and that&#8217;s why he said it. SLAM!!!! Did you hear that? Another brick fell.<p>God Speed!

sballplyr, your news is so good it makes me jealous. Enjoy watching the bricks fall.

I am very excited at the turnaround that happened after my anniversary card this weekend but I am so scared that I am going to screw up. I relayed that to my husband and told him that we are going to make mistakes along the way but if we talk about them right away, we will know how to do it differently. Communication has been a hard part for us. I am more of a communicator and my husband is not. This is something that is now beginning to change in him and I am happy for that.<p>I have always been willing to give 100% and my H has fluctuated in his efforts between 50-100%. I finally believe now he is ready to give it his all. I know I will have to take things slowly but how do I get myself around the frustration of when he or even I have done something against what we have both agreed needs to happen for this marriage to work?<p>I just want to be able to keep reinforcing to him that home is a safe place but with him being afraid that things will go back to the way we were, how do I keep his confidence up that I have made changes. I did tell him that now that we finally know what our actual problems are that it will be a little easier not to make the same mistakes that we did before and he said true but he is afraid.<p>Tonight will be a real test to see if he is willing to give 100%. Softball season starts up again for him and one of my issues is that he ALWAYS goes out after every game, three nights a week. He said that this season he will not go out after the weekday games anymore and I am okay with that but tonight is the big test for him. How do I handle it if he does go out and goes against our agreement on the first night after we agreed to it? I have always let him have his Friday nights out with the guys after the games. It is my night home with the kids to do whatever we want and to have control of the TV. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Thanks.<p>Michele

Michelle,<p>I am going to offer my usual off the wall advice. Use it as you see fit.<p>You my Dear are focusing on the wrong things here. You have already been advised to take things slowly and that would be my first advice to you. However, your focus is wrong IMHO. You are focusing on: how am I to avoid screwing this up? What if he goes out after a softball game? What if he doesn't talk as I want? What if?? What if??<p>Stop for just a second and think. You want him home, as he is right?? You said this. He is leaning on coming home to you, just as you are, right?<p>His note made it very clear what he wants. No more fighting. You want the same. In fact you said that the both of you agreed on many of the changes you would like to make in your approach to the marriage.<p>Now in my feeble brain, this is important. You both want and need changes in each others "approach" to the marriage. NOT IN EACH OTHER. Think about this. No major changes, no walking on egg shells, you two like/love each other. What you don't seem to like/love is each others approach to marriage.<p>Doesn't this sound different to you, than working on the marriage? It should, it is doable.<p>You asked about the communications issues. I will offer my opinion. Most men don't talk, in fact most people who don't talk are this way because they don't have confidence that they won't be hurt by what they disclose about themself. That they will be ridiculed (yes, like in school [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] ), that their spouse or friend will use it against them.<p>Now, I am sure this isn't news to you. So where am I going? It seems to me if you want the wall down, you must tell him very clearly that you won't use what you see, hear, and feel against him. Everyone claims that they want to know what their spouse is thinking, feeling, wanting, but most people cannot handle it. If you want that wall down you two must discuss what topics you are strong enough to hear almost anything about.<p>You need to understand that this situation is like your new born child being held in your arms. No matter if there is a pounding on the door, a loud bang outside, even a bomb going off, you won't be startled enough to drop the child. Are you dedicated enough not to drop your H, if he confides in you??? If you really are, then you need to tell him. It is clear from this card and what we discussed earlier, that he has deep feelings. He is afraid to tell you, unless he knows the consequences of not telling are worse than telling you.<p>This is not what you want is it?? Well, if you do this right and he builds confidence in you, there won't be consequences for being open with you, will there? There will only be help, understanding, consideration, and love. If he knows this you will go a long way toward getting where you want you marriage.<p>So talk. Remember you two are married by each of you need to lead a life that rewards you. That should be doing things together, but it doesn't preclude: softball, going out with the girls, etc. <p>Michelle, treat each other as a valuable and fragil person and then enjoy life. Don't worry about the what if's [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Do your best to make your spouse happy and if he agrees to do the same you are on your way toward rebuilding a great marriage.<p>BUT, this is a never ending process, so take time, have understanding, and enjoy. You won't ever really fix or stop fixing this marriage. It is like a house, it needs constant maintenence. You know this. So go slow, talk with your H about your willingness to protect him, and help him. I think you will get what you offer returned many times.<p>God Bless,<p>JL<p>PS: Congrats on the anniversary and the card.

JL -<p>Thanks for the reply. You are right, we have finally agreed that we do need to approach the marriage differently and even our opinions on how we raise our children. We have also both agreed that our marriage has the potential to be even better than it was before. We used to be the couple that all of our friends admired for how we got along. We also both agree that we both have a couple of more changes that need to happen.<p>"Stop for just a second and think. You want him home, as he is right?? You said this. He is leaning on coming home to you, just as you are, right?"<p>I do want him home as he is, to a point but he needs to be able to show me that he is not going to go out after softball 3 nights a week and then NEVER have time do anything with me. I also know that I need to show him that if he does go out on these nights once in a while, that I will not fight with him about it. You see because the other nights he is not playing ball, he is working. So my frustrations with never seeing him and always being alone with the kids started a lot of the fighting. Something I am working very hard to change but I also don't want to become complacent by agreeing that he can stay out as late as he wants, as often as he wants.<p>"His note made it very clear what he wants. No more fighting." <p>Most of our fighting is because he always has time in the week to play softball and go out three times a week and would never spend any alone time with me or the kids. He even quit letting me go to his softball games because he just didn't want me there anymore. That is when I started noticing we were having problems and I tried to change then but his wall was already to far up for me to even begin learning how to break down. I have never had a problem with him having his Friday nights with the guys but little by little he started adding more and more nights and that's when I started getting really frustrated. Almost like he was taking advantage of me. <p>I understand what you are saying by the fact that I am focusing on the wrong things but I thought part of reconciliation is the POJA. Not that he and I have even gotten that far yet but we have agreed to some things that do need to change that will stop a lot of the fighting and the one major thing is the going out three nights a week until the wee hours of the morning. Am I completely out of line on this one.<p>"Now, I am sure this isn't news to you. So where am I going? It seems to me if you want the wall down, you must tell him very clearly that you won't use what you see, hear, and feel against him."<p>You are soooo right on this one. This is something I used to do in the past and is another reason we do fight. It is something I have worked on a lot to change and I think he is starting to see that. We have talked about this a lot in the past couple of weeks. That is, when we do start fighting, it is like we have to one-up each other. Almost like we were keeping a scorecard on who did more things wrong than the other. Must be our competitive nature. I am so glad that we are getting past that one.<p>I have been letting my husband know that I am his best friend and he can tell me anything and I will always be there for him no matter what. I do think I am on the right track here but I just need to keep showing him that I am the person he met and fell in love with 8 years ago but that I have also grown and changed. I also try to reassure him that I know he has grown and changed a lot too but I do still love him for the wonderful person he still is.<p>I will try to quit worrying about the WHAT IF'S but that is another personality flaw that I am still working on myself. I was raised in an environment where you were to always look at the worst in a situation before it even really happened. This flaw will probably take me a while to change but it is starting to come along more and more each day.<p>Thanks.<p>Michele

Michelle,<p>At the risk of sounding like Polyanna, I would like to suggest that when you start the "What If's" you do it in a positive light rather than a negative light. What if you won the lottery. Yeah right! Better chance of getting hit by lightening twice on a clear and cloudless day. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>My point doing "what if's" isn't bad. It just needs to encompass all of the possibilities and many of them are good. I do have a question for you. Has it occured to you to ask your H why he would rather be with the boys than his girl? [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I was struck with your comment, because I remember in my dating years (into the 30's), I had one standard for even considering a woman as a prospective mate. "I would rather be with her than the guys." I played a lot of sports, traveled and competed and really enjoyed a beer after a game or match with the guys. I wish had the money we spent on pitchers of beer.<p>BUT, when I met a woman that would rather be with than the guys, I was a goner. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>So my point is that there is more here. Your H works nights apparently. Maybe what he likes about going out with the guys after a game is the "unwinding". Now this could be done at home, Michelle. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] This could even be fun for the both of you.<p>Let's say that you two agree that after a game that neither of you will talk about "the List" of things to do, the problems of the day, only about dumb things like how many times he struck out, or perhaps you two just sit, have a beverage of your choice and just let the days issues drain away. And then find something interesting to do.<p>If this idea interests you and interests him, then why don't you use the POJA to decide how you both would like this. Declare it unwind time and truely enjoy each other. I have an idea the "boys" cannot compete with that. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't start bragging to the guys, that he had to go home and "unwind".<p>Now, I am probably carrying this too far. But I hope you get my point. If you both have something to look forward to after the game, I think you won't have as much trouble getting him home.<p>I would be interested to hear what your ideas along this line are.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

POLYANNA! One of my favorite movies!<p>Anyway, I have asked my husband what the big thrill is about being with the guys all the time is and it has been an issue with us for about the past 5 years. You see, one of my husband's biggest emotional needs is to be around a lot of people all the time. I don't know if this is because he was raised as an only child even though he has much older siblings. <p>Let me just give you a brief run down of what life became like for the past 4 years. H played softball 3 nights a week and then we also played together 1 night a week and every other weekend H would have a tournament. So there are 4 nights out of the week gone and everyother weekend. Now on the other nights when H is not playing ball, he would always invite OUR friends over to either go swimming, play pool or ping ping. This was all fine with me at first but then when it became no stop everyweek, I began to get frustrated. I was always cooking and cleaning up after everybody every night on top of chasing the three kids around and getting up by 4:30 a.m. every morning to go to work.<p>I knew when I met my husband that he liked to hang out with the guys and I have always accepted that. In the beginning of our marriage, it was never this excessive. H has told me that he started doing it more and more was because I was becomming so negative about it. He couldn't understand why I was getting so negative and frustrated with it. The only reason I was becomming negative about it is because he was gradually cutting me out of his life all together except for having me there to cook and clean for everyone. This is when the major conflict started this year. I wanted to be included again and wanted more help from him and because he already had a set pattern with the guys, there was no longer any room for me. Also remember, we have three children that I was always being left to deal with. So instead of me just accepting that he is going to do what he is going to do, I started changing. Then I got the WHY NOW's and the WHERE WERE YOU WHEN I NEEDED YOU. Remember, my husband is not a communicator so I never knew he needed me and then I was sort of blindsided by his unhappiness. I did see his unhappiness but he would never tell me what was wrong. I don't want to sound like this is all my H's doing because I am no saint in this either. For several years, H did ask me to go out and do things but at the times he did, we either never had any money, no babysitter or he always wanted a huge group to go with us. This is another one of our problems because he has not forgot any of the times that I did not want to do anything. What is really funny about him going out after the games with the guys is that all the other guys bring their wives or families. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Now that we both know what is wrong, I do think I can take your ideas and apply them but I know there are going to be struggles and backslides and that is what I want to avoid. <p>"Let's say that you two agree that after a game that neither of you will talk about "the List" of things to do, the problems of the day, only about dumb things like how many times he struck out, or perhaps you two just sit, have a beverage of your choice and just let the days issues drain away. And then find something interesting to do."<p>This is something I have been trying to get through to him that would be fun, healthy and great for both of us and I do see him starting to want that again but I need to get another brick wall down. Here is the funny thing is that he will call me when he gets home from being out drinking with the guys and you probably already know what he wants to talk about. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I do think we are headed in the right direction but I think I need to stay focused on my negative behavior because that is a HUGE LB to him and he doesn't even know what LB'ing is.<p>Thanks for all of your help and please let me know if you have more info.<p>Later.<p>Michele

Michelle,<p>Reading your post about him wanting to be around a lot of people struck me. Funny, as you post, I keep seeing things that intrique me about you and your H. This need for crowds of people is something I think you need to talk about with him.<p>It would seem that he doesn't want to sit down, or spend quiet time does he? It would seem that perhaps in crowds of people he doesn't have to say anything deep or really reveal himself. Or perhaps he spent enough time alone when growing up and enjoys the company.<p>What I am getting at is that this seems more than him not liking to be around you. In fact, it really isn't about you, but him (I don't mean he is selfish here). I mean he has a high need for activity, a need to not be alone, and quite frankly probably enjoy entertaining in his home. Probably something he was proud of, his home and his family.<p>Now I realize you don't see this, because you were doing all of the work. Perhaps this is a point of negotiation here. Friends can come over but he must let you know ahead of time and he must do half of the cooking and cleaning. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>That may end the need for entertainment. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I guess what I am trying to say is maybe look at this a little differently. If one of your children were to have ADD or by hyperactive, it would drive you crazy but you would understand and do your best to compensate.<p>I realize I am making this sound like you have to do all of the work. But that is only because I am talking to you. I hope that as you and H work this out you will see him differently, thus approach him differently and get different results than before. Now wouldn't that be different? [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Enough of the differences, it sounds as if you two are starting to get this all together. Just remember to have fun with this. I know it doesn't seem that way, but smile Michelle, you are doing very well.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

Excellent discourse going here...<p>Michele, I'd hold off on the demands... except demands on yourself. Try to make your home feel so good that he's attracted to it moreso than being with his buds. <p>You asked about how to make it safe? Put your *taker* on hold for a LOOOONNNGGG while, and give give give for now. <p>Now, that's not called laying down like a doormat... it's called the middle of the road, as JL was describing 1/2 the cooking, 1/2 the cleaning. You don't need to be rude... just share with him what all needs to be done from your perspective and share what you're willing to do. He may not expect nearly as much as you...<p>Anyway, move away from anything that looks/feels/sounds like you're *parenting* him... be more like a *child* with him and get excited when he does, or whatever a child would do with another child.<p>Basically, what I'm suggesting is to turn your eyes off of him for a while... and focus on God and keep pleading with God to make you, mold you into the woman, wife and mother that HE's created you to be... <p>You've heard the phrase that goes something like this, "Let the bird go... if it comes back, it was meant to be." You can't NOT mess up - forgiveness will be a big part of things... you sound so fearful of making mistakes... that's why I'm wondering about your approach... trying to be perfect. Go easy on that... Try to make Michele into the woman God intends and I'll betcha that your H will no longer WANT to spend as much time with his buds... However, if you start putting demands and stipulations on HIS behavior... you haven't REALLY let him go. He's an adult, independent... it will be HIS choice if he wants to meet your emotional needs... it's not something you can force AND be satisfied with the results.<p>This is my $.02! It's moving along slowly but surely... keep the eternal perspective in mind... not just what's happening now - day to day. Ohhh, again, I wish I could practice consistently JUST what I've told you! It's not easy!<p>Ciao,
Nicole