Cjack,<p>One more thought. If she was just going through a midlife crisis, perhaps there is hope for you guys to get back together since she is now getting past that stage.<p>Just a thought...<p>
Another thing, I know what you mean by opposites attracting. I think it can be a good thing if people use this. For instance, for me and my stbx, I think if it weren't for his rage and anger problems, we would have had an awesome relationship. What I was strong at, he was weak at and vice versa? I saw too many times where the differences strengthened our relationship. We each respected each others strengths. Having the same strengths may be a problem with a constant battle of wills. Also, if you both liked the same exact things you may not widen your experiences in life as much. Having different interests, as long as both people are open minded, could be less boring and more variety in the things you do together.<p>ANNA<p>[ November 13, 2001: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]</p>

Anna,<p>you are supposed to grow up together, sometimes the problem is that one person starts reverting, or dislikes changes.<p>But something else that i remember from reading somewhere, if try to marry someone to complete what you are missing, and that knowledge is not readily printed in neon signs, the relationship has an increased probability of being unsatisfying.<p>As Frank Pittman says, "you are better off marrying someone more like yourself than different." then add the little differences, instead of big differences.

wiftty,<p>You are right. I didn't mean large differences. Afterall, I'm the one who said I wouldn't date someone who was a non Christian. Christian and non Christian are too big of a difference to me.<p>However, mine and my stbx's differences, complimented each others. Our differences even complimented each other in helping the children with their homework. Our children really got the best from us regarding help on homework. What I didn't know he knew and vice-versa. Here's some more examples of how I feel certain differences can compliment each other.<p>I am a talker he was quiet. This was a good difference to have. If I would have been quiet like him, I think we would sit and stared at each other all the time. If he would have been a talker like me, we would have drove each other nuts. I could get him to open up and talk by asking certain questions. In time, my outgoing personality helped him to be more outgoing. <p>One year someone stole my STBX's identity and ruined his credit. I wrote letters and contacted the right persons. I spend a year fixing his credit for him. This is something I was strong at doing and he was wasn't. He knew this and he even said he would have probably never got it fixed because he didn't have it in him to want to do all of that. However, when it came to talking to car repairmen regarding what needed to be done with my car, he was better at this. <p>When first married we were getting a living room suit. Our credit limit at the store was $500.00, not enough money, the salesman called the office but couldn't convince them to raise our limit, my husband talked to them but couldn't get them to raise our limit, I talked to them and they raised it to $2,500. I had a knack for this and my husband didn't. I used this talent in many times during our marriage. He leaned on me for things like this while I leaned on him for other things. There are so many examples I can give you but we had a lot of differences that complimented each other.<p>As I have read SNL and Thinkers threads I think there differences compliment each other too. SNL doesn't realize how much his wife's strengths compliments his weaknesses, and vice versa. This helps more than he knows in his own business too. Their strengths and weaknesses could make his business an even bigger success as time goes. I think he'll miss these if they ever divorce. I wouldn't even be surprised if he ever did divorce and remarry he will end up with someone very similar to her. Thrn again, maybe I'm wrong maybe he does know they compliment each other and that's why he is holding on a divorce.<p>Well, anyway, thanks pointing that out to me.<p>ANNA

Anna,<p>those differences seem logical and obvious on the surface with SNL and Thinker, but the differences run much deeper than that. The differences they struggle with are at the core of the personality types and view points.<p>Thinker will tend to look at the present, and the past, with very little foresight or understanding of the future. Typically, she will not only be unable to make long term plans that dovetail with anyone else, and people who focus on the past and present do not make much progress forward, and do not always understand the implications of their current actions on the future. they are traditionalists, who love to maintain the status quo.<p>Likewise, SNL will be so focused on the future, and whose mind goes so fast, that he misses out on today, on the here and now, and that if you don't cruise at his conceptual level, he gets frustrated very easily, and can't understand why the rest of the world is so far behind. . . . he loves a good debate on a new and difficult topic, he loves solving what others have not, going where others have not, mostly intellectually.<p>these are the dilemmas of personality, these are the dilemmas of values. . . thinker values how others respond to her, and SNL doesn't give a crap about other's opinions. these are very big bridges to get over without any commonalities in understanding and approach to life. Since we don't see or hear all the interactions, its hard to piece together what is happening. <p>sorry to disagree, but its easy to look at the obvious and proclaim that it looks like it fits, but in reality, its what you don't see and can't see that is actually more of the problem. The only reason why i throw alot of this out is that i realized how our relationship deteriorated as soon as i read about personalities, and personality disorders. and i was willing to change, but then again, i am not resistant to change, i like it.<p>The immoveable part of our problem, similar to SNL & Thinker, was the one rooted in tradition and resistant to change. The one with the belief that there is only one way to be and one way to solve the problem. however, that does not absolve both from their responsibilities.<p>WIFTTy<p>[ November 13, 2001: Message edited by: WhenIfindthetime ]</p>

Hi Anna,<p>I've been thinking about this question and finally decided to answer it:<p>1) I have learned so much about myself since coming to MB. The good part is...I am much stronger than I thought I was. I am a good person who can actually raise 3 sons on my own, with VERY little help from my ex. I learned that I can do a great job at work, even though it's the first job I've ever had since I was a SAHM for my entire marriage.
The bad part is...I was and probably still am way too co-dependent. I made the mistake of letting my ex have too much control. Plus I didn't know how to stand up for myself so I became a textbook example of a battered wife.<p>2) The most important thing that I did wrong was that I tried to reason with an alcoholic. It can't be done!<p>3) I would say that I'm about 20-30% responsible for how bad my marriage was.<p>4) No, I/we didn't go to counseling.<p>5) My ex cheated on me after we had been married for a little over 10 years. <p>6) N/A<p>7) At this moment, my ex wouldn't say anything good about me. He did say in court that I am a good mom and that I take good care of our sons.
As for the bad part...well, he would say that I'm greedy because I ask him to pay child support. (Although he's almost $4000 in arrears and I haven't bothered him about it or taken him to court). He also thinks that I want him back. For some reason, since I'm civil to him, I still can't go on without him! LOL LOL<p>Hope this answers some things for you!<p>Mitzi [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Anna2000:
<strong>Cjack,<p>One more thought. If she was just going through a midlife crisis, perhaps there is hope for you guys to get back together since she is now getting past that stage.<p>Just a thought...<p>
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>
I wish it were something a simple as a mid-life crisis! There really isn't enough bandwidth here to go into the details, but here's the short version:<p>My XW came from a very dysfunctional family. Her father was a physically abusive alcoholic, while her mother was verbally abusive and a poster child for co-dependency. They divorced when my X was a teenager. They were never really there for her emotionally...always too wrapped up in their own problems. Big-time abandonment and lack of security issues from that.<p>At the age of 20, she got pregnant. The sperm donor left the day her D was born and hasn't been seen since. Again, more abandonment.<p>Her next boyfriend (a six-year relationship) was the King of All Abusers. He tore her self-esteem down on a daily basis. And physical abuse? I've done quite a bit of work with battered women's shelters during my radio career, and I've never heard of anything that even approaches the level of abuse she endured.<p>There is more, but the bottom line is that she has issues which she is only beginning to deal with. It will take a long, long time before she is emotionally ready for any kind of real relationship. When that time comes, there is no guarantee that I would be the person she would choose. <p>When I described some of what she had been through to my psychiatrist, he said "that's nothing that 10 years of good therapy wouldn't make a small dent in..."<p>I can't wait that long. I need to get on with my life for my own sake.

Wiffty,<p>I agree totally it is important for a person to evaluate their spouses personality to determine their needs. However I disagree with your opinion spouses need to be more a like in certain areas. As stated before, of course they can't be total opposites, but there are differences that compliment each other and can be used beneficially if used correctly. Also, my view on how you see SNL and Thinker are very different views. Since you and SNL seem like such debaters and debaters like hearing other views, I know you won't take offense to see the other side.

You said, "Thinker will tend to look at the present, and the past, with very little foresight or understanding of the future. Typically, she will not only be unable to make long term plans
that dovetail with anyone else, and people who focus on the past and present do not make much progress forward, and do not always understand the implications of their current actions on the future. they are traditionalists, who love to maintain the status quo.<p>Likewise, SNL will be so focused on the future, and whose mind goes so fast, that he misses out on today, on the here and now, and that if you don't cruise at his conceptual level, he gets frustrated very easily, and can't understand why the rest of the world is so far behind. . . he loves a good debate on a new and difficult topic, he loves solving what others have not, going where others have not, mostly intellectually."<p>I disagree with basically every word in these paragraphs. Neither you and I know thinker well enough to make this evaluation. I think most psychologist who know what we know about thinker would not make this evaluation either. I am assuming you are basing your theories solely on your study of personality types. There is absolutely nothing on either of these two people that substantiates anything you said so far. Also, there is absolutely nothing that I have seen which states thinker or anyone else who doesn't possess the personality type you and SNL state you two possess would not be able to progress forward in the future. Also, I see SNL and thinker both pretty much living in the past and present. SNL can't resolve the problems in his mind and obsesses over matters such as why his lover broke off the relationship and why the affair happened to begin with. Whereas thinker can't get over why her husband doesn't see logical points of view that the majority of society sees, such as, knowing his actions were wrong since he kept choices away from his wife by never telling her he would cheat or did cheat. However, how they view other matters of every day life, whether future thinkers or present is things we know little about.<p>Furthermore, I don't know SNL well enough to know if he thinks the rest of the world is so far behind his thinking, however if he does think the world is so far behind his intellectual thinking, I would suggest he go get his head shrunk (literally) because anyone thinking in such a smug way, may have a huge problem in any relationship they are in. Also, very few people can stand behind that big of a head.<p>Now as far as long term goals verses present goals perhaps SNL has more long term goals and thinker has more short term goals. Such as SNL is thinking of the future regarding making money and retirement, where as thinker may be contemplating more of the things they need today such as family needs. This is typical family struggles. Majority of men do think more long term, money oriented, dream home, vacation home, etc., the majority of women do think more present, putting more emphasis on home repairs needed today than the dream house of the future and emotional family needs. That's just the way it is. Although to some extent usually the present thinker thinks some what of the future and vice versa. Both goals are important and having one with one strength and one with the other will balance each other out. If both persons only look towards the future or only look at the present, I can see an uneven balance.

You stated, "The only reason why throw alot of this out is that i realized how our relationship deteriorated as soon as i read about personalities, and personality disorders. and I was willing to change, but then again, i am not resistant to change, i like it."

I think it was great you saw the differences and wanted to change. When you discuss this it also reminds me very much of your relationship too. You saw the differences in your personalities as you read the personality types. You indicated you were so busy working and trying to make money for long term you over looked present day needs, basically ignoring these needs to get to your goal. Of course since you now know this, I would think this would be a good example for you to reason with SNL and Thinker to both to know their personalities and how this can help them both if they make adjustments to have a happy marriage. Also, it is also good you are willing to change and make adjustments in your future relationships based on different personalities. SNL and thinker can do this also. They can make a few adjustments to how they talk to one another and become a team using each of their strengths and weakness. BTW, your story reminds me a lot of HH's story I recopied and posted a couple of times. Here's the story I'm thinking of. I think it would be a perfect story for you to read if you haven't already. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=8&t=006546<p>Here's another example of a couples differences complimenting each other. I have a friend who's husband is a borderline gambler. She is more practical, he looks more at long term goals and no matter how rich they are, he can never get enough. He has many addictive behavioral problems. Psychologist have told them she is what has kept him ground for over 20 years, she gave him the boundaries he needs. If he ever leaves her, his addictions will take control, there will be no one to set boundaries, more than likely he will lose this business he built and all the money he has. He will then hit rock bottom. What a price he may have to pay for this lesson? <p>Regarding SNL loving to debate new difficult topics. Perhaps I'm missing all those difficult new topics he's been debating. I see him mainly debating one topic over a year old. Even other topics he typically has self serving reasons all stemming back to the affair he has. He's a nice guy with a mixed up point of view on his affair, however, so far I haven't seen a great debater yet.

You said this, "these are the dilemmas of personality, these are the dilemmas of values. . . thinker values how others respond to her, and SNL doesn't give a crap about other's opinions. these are very big bridges to get over without any commonalities in understanding and approach to life. Since we don't see or hear all the interactions, its hard to piece together what is happening."

This is untrue also. SNL cares more than thinker does about what people think about him. This is why is continues to try to convince mostly betrayed spouses of his point of view. SNL wants people to not think he is this bad person who could have an affair. The point he is missing is so logical, it is people make mistakes this does not make him a bad person only a person who makes mistakes. If he would accept his responsibility of this mistake, people would have the greatest respect for him, but logically he can not handle what he did wrong, so he continues debating and dwelling on one subject feeding on anyone who will see his point.<p>You said sorry to disagree. No need to be sorry. Afterall, we each have are own views and there are ways for a person to take several views, combine them and establish a plan to solve problems. Also, I like hearing other points of views. It makes me consider look deeper at my view.<p>Oh btw, thanks for your help with my personality type. Since we have discussed my personality on several emails, I thought you may be interested to know after the two test I took, the one you sent and another one that helped alot in determining my personality type. I reserched and found a Meyers/Briggs personality test which gives 72 individual questions and does not categorize items. I took this test, and it confirmed what the second test I took said also, my personality is basically an INTP with traits of ESF too. Because I am very sociable in crowds but love the peace and quiet my personality as far as E or I could have almost went either way. However, I see now where the scale was tipped Introverted instead of Extroverted. Also, this new test made me see I had one personality type wrong with stbx. His type is ISTJ, in leau of INTJ, but the test revealed he was very close to "N" type as well. I think where I went wrong was putting too much emphasis on his personality to want to look towards the future and not looking at his strengths in the other category. Here's the sight with the Jung-Meyers-Brigg test. <p>http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes1.htm <p>In consideration of using some of the personality type information on my stbx regarding matters of the children it occured to me since you use the personality test in your every day life you would be the perfect person to give insight and examples of how this has helped with your relationship with your exwife. How do you utilize this with your exwife, since you still have to deal with her in regards to the children? What changes have you made in your approaches to your exwife in dealing with issues? Has your studies helped you to get positive results and answers from her? Also, In what ways to you use the things you have learned on MB, such as LB's, to work with your ex regarding matters you must discuss? Have you seen a positive change since using different techniques?<p>Take care,<p>ANNA<p>[ November 14, 2001: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]<p>[ November 15, 2001: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]</p>

ANNA[/QB][/QUOTE]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Mitzi:
<strong>Hi Anna,<p>1) I have learned so much about myself since coming to MB. The good part is...I am much stronger than I thought I was. I am a good person who can actually raise 3 sons on my own, with VERY little help from my ex. I learned that I can do a great job at work, even though it's the first job I've ever had since I was a SAHM for my entire marriage.
The bad part is...I was and probably still am way too co-dependent. I made the mistake of letting my ex have too much control. Plus I didn't know how to stand up for myself so I became a textbook example of a battered wife.<p>Mitzi [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] </strong><hr></blockquote><p>Mitzi,<p>The above answer is definitely my favorite. I can relate to all your answers but loved that one. I also could relate to you on reasoning with an alcoholic. We try so hard but it can't be done. You know, this makes me think of my friend, she tried hard to reason with her husband who has gambling problems and that too can not be done.<p>Thanks for your answers Mitzi. It is nice to see how MB has helped everyone.<p>Take care,<p>ANNA

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by cjack:
<strong><p>When I described some of what she had been through to my psychiatrist, he said "that's nothing that 10 years of good therapy wouldn't make a small dent in..."<p>I can't wait that long. I need to get on with my life for my own sake.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Cjack,<p>You are right, I didn't realize there was so much more. That's very logical thinking, you can't wait that long. It sounds really sad for her too. How tragic she had to go through so much. Isn't it strange how some people can go through no major abuse incidents and others just attract abusers. It also reminds me of people who go there entire life without any deaths in their family, then you hear of those have deaths surrounding them. Life is off balance in regards to fair. <p>Take care and thanks for all your post I enjoy reading them. Also, you seem to have such an interesting life. Is it too personal for me to ask what you do for a living? Also, for some reason I keep thinking you live in New York, am I right? If these questions are too personal, I will understand if you don't answer them.<p>Take care,<p>ANNA

anna et al....is an interesting experience seeing myself (and thinker) discussed in the 3rd person. Just for the record, it is ok, I value all kinds of input, IMO you both have made some correct observations, and some incprrect ones.<p>wifty says I don't care what people think, anna says I do, you are both right. Wifty correctly (if this was how he concluded this) observes to me the truth is everything, let the chips fall where they will, and I am not overly concerned who that upsets...but that is a core position, it applies to me too, I won't protect myself either. However, I am human, and I do care alot about people, and I do not want to be thought ill of. That does not mean though I will avoid hard truths, it does mean I will try to be compassionate in how that truth is revealed/delivered though. Anna, I know you are in the camp that thinks I am rationalizing, let me ask you something. How do I go about asking the questions I do, and unraveling the nature of human relations (including affairs), without being accuse of rationalizing? <p>Anyways, I will try to comment on some of the stuff later, temperament is important, once you undrestand it, lots of people start making more sense to you.... it is not a marital deal-breaker of course, but it is an indicator of likelihood of marital success, that seems unquestionable.<p>Thinker does rely on me for long term plans, she is very reactionary re risk. This does cause us a lot of conflict, but her conservatism does act as a brake on my propensity for excess, so it does work...sorta, but there is a lot of conflict.

Anna,<p>differences in opinion and conclusion,
differences in theory and practice,
differences in points of view,<p>that's what makes the world go round.<p>my goal with SNL and Thinker is for each take notice of their weaknesses and suggest solutions to help strengthen the weak points, to poke holes in self serving and self defeating assumptions, and to help them take responsibility for their own actions. My suggestions come from a similar experience, and you said i had good advice, none of my suggestions ever put the sole responsibility of the difficulties on one particular person, although i said there was one person who had more influence than another towards the outcome of relationship, which i feel is correct. Why? because one person is more emotional than the other, and is therefore, less likely to think clearly and act in the best interest in strengthening the relationship. With some help in the weaker part of the relationship, to make the relationship less emotional and more thoughtful, the relationship will become more balanced, and less likely to have one person take advantage of the other.<p>Anna, what's your goal?<p>WIFTTy

SNL,<p>You are correct. As I typed it, I thought about the same thing of not being sure if it is even proper for Wiftty and I to talk in a third person manner about you and thinker. I didn't answer for a couple of days thinking about that same thing. I'm glad you didn't mind. <p>Also, if you take wiftty's views and my views and throw out the things we were incorrect on I think you and thinker could utilize most of this to finding a happy medium. <p>I liked when you said this, "This does cause us a lot of conflict, but her conservatism does act as a brake on my propensity for excess, so it does work...sorta, but there is a lot of conflict." I see this point with my friend who's husband goes over board in the business they own. He loves walking on the line and going a outside boundaries. Just like your wife is with you, her conservatism does act as a break on his propensity for excess as well. I think he'd be in jail by now if it weren't for her conservatism. <p>So what do you think of my theory on marriage. If you were to remarry another woman do you think her personality traits would be similar to Thinkers? Just curious if you see this as a possibility.<p>Take care,<p>ANNA

Wiftty,<p>Those are very good goals!<p>There is nothing wrong with setting goals for others. However, I only give my opinions and would only set goals for myself, these are the only goals I could control. How a person utilizes the opinions I give and establish their own goals would be totally up to that individual. We are each responsible for our own goals. Therefore, I do not have a particular goal for SNL or Thinker, or any other person on MB, other than myself. I also never had a goal for my husband, accept as a family I had goals. If I started trying to set goals for other people I would think I would be disappointed and frustrated, because after all, I can not control them so my question would be, "Why would I want to try to set a goal for something I can't control?"<p>Take care,<p>ANNA<p>[ November 15, 2001: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Anna2000:
<strong>Hi guys,<p>Here's some questions I have for you. I'm a directing this to Wiftty, thinker and SNL, although they are all very different people, because I've been talking to them alot lately. However, I would love to know these especially from the "old timers" since I think often we can learn more from people who have spent a long time studying specific issues.<p>I would also want to hear from any newtimers that want to chime in.<p>All questions are optional. Just answer the ones you feel comfortable with or apply to you.<p>1. What did you learn about yourself since you came to MB, both the positive things and the negative things?<p>2. What did you learn about the things you did personally which were wrong in your marriage, and you think may have made your marriage better?<p>3. What approximate percentage of fault do you feel you have for the condition your marriage was in before she/he cheated on you? or If you cheated what percentage of fault do you feel you had for the condition your marriage was in before you cheated? <p>4. If you went to counseling. <p> A. How did you grow as a person through counseling? <p> B. Did counseling help more than MB or MB more than counseling?<p>5. If you were the betrayed spouse...Did spouse cheat on you while you were together, started relationships while separated or divorced then dated?<p>6. If you were a wayward spouse. <p> A. What changes have you made in your thinking or attitude to insure an affair in your current marriage or future marriage will never happen again?<p> B. Did you ever apologize to the people you hurt and tell them why you felt what you did
was so wrong?

7. What would your spouse say about you, both the good and bad?<p>Ok, there's my questions. Thanks guys for answering them.<p>Take care,<p>ANNA<p>[ November 09, 2001: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Anna2000:
<strong>Hi guys,<p>Here's some questions I have for you. I'm a directing this to Wiftty, thinker and SNL, although they are all very different people, because I've been talking to them alot lately. However, I would love to know these especially from the "old timers" since I think often we can learn more from people who have spent a long time studying specific issues.<p>I would also want to hear from any newtimers that want to chime in.<p>All questions are optional. Just answer the ones you feel comfortable with or apply to you.<p>1. What did you learn about yourself since you came to MB, both the positive things and the negative things?<p>2. What did you learn about the things you did personally which were wrong in your marriage, and you think may have made your marriage better?<p>3. What approximate percentage of fault do you feel you have for the condition your marriage was in before she/he cheated on you? or If you cheated what percentage of fault do you feel you had for the condition your marriage was in before you cheated? <p>4. If you went to counseling. <p> A. How did you grow as a person through counseling? <p> B. Did counseling help more than MB or MB more than counseling?<p>5. If you were the betrayed spouse...Did spouse cheat on you while you were together, started relationships while separated or divorced then dated?<p>6. If you were a wayward spouse. <p> A. What changes have you made in your thinking or attitude to insure an affair in your current marriage or future marriage will never happen again?<p> B. Did you ever apologize to the people you hurt and tell them why you felt what you did
was so wrong?

7. What would your spouse say about you, both the good and bad?<p>Ok, there's my questions. Thanks guys for answering them.<p>Take care,<p>ANNA<p>[ November 09, 2001: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]</strong><hr></blockquote><p>How do I say something? I've never used a message board
malinda2001@home.com <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> <hr></blockquote> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> <hr></blockquote>

Haven't read the boards for awhile, been too..... busy with everything here. Anna what you said about H talking about the same subject for over a year is true IMO. My H buys on impulse sometimes, and this has caused us to lose some money and sometimes not. I am the careful spender in this relationship. I have to pay all the bills, find out where the money is coming from (when H was very active in the affair) he was spending money on her and I discussed concerns with H at that time I don't have the funds to pay the bills. Didn't know why we didn't have the funds, and this was concerning me quite a bit. Now I know why. Anyways, I have been doing the bills and records, cause H is not good at organizing. I file things pretty rapidly to know where to look. I am the one that says, I don't think it is a good idea to buy this or that. <p>I look for the future and retirement more than what has been stated here. I worry about our retirement, and actually had some money set aside for retirement. I don't want to be dependent on our kids to support us or me. I have parents that are independent so far, and H mother is independent so far. <p>When one says I don't look into the future, I do. I may not state it here, but I worry about the future, wonder what I can do to make it better, find readings to help me in the future and try to think of ways to help the kids in their future too. <p>When it was stated that I don't care about SNL feelings, I do. Many times he calls himself Pondscum, and that is tough to hear. I asked him the other day his definition, and he is not that person. Yes, he still is in denial about his affair, yes, he is still (IMO) rationalizing his affair, but like stated, he is FOGGY or whatever.
Yes, I would love to hear him say he feels guilty & remorse about the affair, but I probably will never hear those words. He doesn't feel that way about the affair.<p>I am curious to what kind of woman he would marry, personality type. Since the OW matched him to a T, and he wanted to marry her, is she the type he feels he would be happy with. How would they handle bills, organizing, finding time to get chores done, finding love in the extended family, finding time to create love in the family? I feel with the interaction this OW had with me, she was quite selfish, controlling, and manipulating. She didn't give me a chance to talk, controlled the whole conversation, and manipulated me with suicide. DId this with the 3 conversations I had with her, she called me. Is this the type of woman that is compatible with SNL?<p>I am a logical thinker, trying to look ahead and view life with caution. If we were rich, money to be spent carelessly, and no real worries in the world, I could let lose.<p>We are not rich, money is tight, and yes there are many worries with the kids, finances, his mother, my parents and family. I cherish family and that does create problems with us.<p>Update on dad, went to the Dr. Wed. with mom and dad. No more radiation for now. R eye will be totally closed and blind. Just a tad of movement in R eye. Nothing to get excited about. L eye is open 1/2 way, sight is blurry, worse than 3 months ago. The cancer node on the neck reduced to 1", Dr. is very excited about that. See Dr. on Dec. 14 to see how he is doing. Dad is losing his hair from radiation, dad really doesn't care, mom cut his hair 1/2" long. Dad did lose 1 pound in 1 week, giving him some other medication to increase his appetite besides what he is taking. I think he is not absorbing nutrients like he should. Will bring that up next visit if continues to lose weight. Dads esophagus and lining of mouth is sluffing off due to radiation. It is raw and gave a prescription to swish and swallow to help with the discomfort. Otherwise dad is doing okay, depressed still but here and living. <p>Don't mind you guys analyzing us, just decided to take time for myself this morning before this day starts and see what is going on here. Will keep reading this thread. Thanks for your input.

Thinker,<p>It is so sad he took away money his own family needed and put it towards his lover. <p>In so many ways SNL sounds a lot like my stbx in regards to high spending. My stbx was extravogant in spending. One thing that surprised me when we separated was looking back at all the credit card charges. 90% of charges were my stbx's. I was proud when I realized, my Mervyn's, Palais Royal, Foley's, and all the department store credit cards were at a zero balance. STBX always had to have the best, never shopped for bargains and spent money we didn't have. Most items weren't things which would help us with future goals. <p>One of the most extravogant things he did was after the physical abuse, he went out and purchased a diamond to replace my engagement ring diamond. As usual he didn't shop around, didn't take into consideration I do not like expensive jewelry. Actually he told me he knew this after he purchased it but he always felt when people saw my ring they thought he was cheap because my diamond wasn't big enough. So inside I questioned who this gift was really for. He spent $6,000 on this ring. Ok, I am not being ungrateful, I even thought his words were nice, he said something in affect about the diamond being flawless and clear like my love for him. Actually I can't remember the exact words because I was too shocked about the whole thing. I tried hard to hide my disappointment and later on my own I called the jewelry store on the side and asked them if there was anyway to get our money back. They told me only exchanges after purchase. So I resolved there was no point in getting mad or hurting his feelings over something I no longer had control over and I might as well try to enjoy the diamond. If we were wealthy and he did this I would feel differently as it is the only ring I ever wore, but we didn't have the money to be that extravogant, and also I couldn't see how putting $6,000 on my finger would help our future goals. The worse thing about his purchase was he charged it on a credit card and since I was the one handling the bills it put additional pressure on me each month to find the money to pay for this new unwanted diamond.<p>Reading your post, made me realize I had always considered him the one who more looked towards future goals, because of his dreams of the future. Although thinking about it now, this was not true, I was the stronger one in this area. I could do without now to save and have nicer things later. Also, when he quit his job to start a family business, he would have never done this without me, I encouraged him by reminding him he can get a job any day doing what he is doing, but our future is pretty much planned out if he continues in a "going no where" job. I was also the one who initiated the IRA's and saving. It is weird how I never saw this before, he was the one who discussed the future more than me, but of doing something about it, he just tried to have all the things prematurely, which only caused more debt, more unnecessary interest rates and less chance of us reaching this goal.<p>I can predict what would happen if your husband married someone just like him and I am not psycic. It is only logical he and she together would spend beyond their means, occur huge debts, a person who has control over spending and money of the business must have more of a conservative type personality in some respects, such as they need to know which items purchased will help their business grow and which items are unnecessary purchases, they wouldn't have a good team as far as her working in the office and him working in the field, since it does take someone who has logical and level head thinking, therefore, the things he needs to take care of regarding his business would either be done poorly, not at all or he would eventually have to hire outside help, resulting in more unnecessary money spent. Evenually I could see his business folding, them going bankrupt and him going out and she and he then having to go out and get a job.<p>The reason I see all this is because that is what basically happened to me and my stbx. For one thing after the physical abuse, I no longer cared to try to put boundaries on his spending, it just wasn't worth it anymore. My marriage and future goals of retirment was no longer important to me and no longer worth the hassle of arguing over. I just totally gave up. There were mergers of corporations which also affected our business in a negative way and was beyond our control. However, he usually got his energy from my energy. Often I pushed him to move on, to look for other ways of making money. My energy for three years was gone. I just didn't care anymore. The lack of boundaries he now had, caused his spending to go out of control.<p>Thinker I have a question for you. You said a couple of weeks ago you would be moving on if Steve could not get through to SNL. Are you still considering this and have you started making plans towards this? I would like to suggest after over a year of SNL making very little improvement, I think it would be a wise choice for you. Afterall, if he doesn't see what he did wrong, who is to stop him from doing this again to you and your family. Also, you deserve better than what he can give you right now.<p>Thinker, I appreciate your post, it gave me a lot of insight as well. Although you say you don't mind, I am going to try to stay away from posting third person in the future.<p>Also, if you would like, I would love to talk with you by email.<p>Take care,<p>ANNA

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I look for the future and retirement more than what has been stated here. I worry about our retirement, and actually had some money set aside for retirement. <hr></blockquote><p>Thinker, do you have a plan for funding retirement?
If you do, you shouldn't worry, because you are dong the best you can towards an uncertainty. If you worry because you don't have a plan for the future, then the sooner you get an independent financial advisor and a plan, the less you will have to worry about retirement.<p>Worrying does not imply love. Worrying implies lack of control and knowledge about something.<p>My experience has shown that the more knowledge one has and the more planning one has, the less one has to worry about the outcome. In other words, you decrease the odds of a disappointment, which helps in increasing a positive outlook toward life.<p>These charcteristics appear consistent with the personality clash. However, when one goes around expecting other people to act a certain way, one tends to get disappointed. That sentiment is typical of a manipulative personality. There is a tendency for some personality types to be manipulative, and expecting or waiting for other's to act is to put responsibility of your happiness on others.<p>I would expect general respectfulness and communication, and if one doesn't get it, then one realizes that this person is not worth spending alot of time with. There is alot of truth to affair withdrawal, to just exist together while the emotional loss dissipates is a good plan; however, that does not mean one endures alot of disrespect, it means you do activities together as much as possible, and focus on the activity at hand, not the relationship. However, you do not accept disrespectfullness without speaking up, without boundaries, without stating that one's feelings are hurt, but one informs the other of the hurt being felt so that the inflictor realizes what he doesn't see or feel.<p>I suspect that SNL is hurting, but is also guilty of being stuck in realizing the past is now imperfect to what he realized it should/could have been, and is stuck in a vicious circle of a negative feedback loop. He needs help breaking that loop, and both the boundaries, and just existing with a common goals and trying to have non-work time together without any blame, or relationship talk, but focus on the event at hand,etc, is a great start.<p>yup, one learns alot from one's mistakes, doesn't one?<p>WIFTTy

Canderella,<p>Sorry I didn't see your post last night. I am sure by now someone answered your questions, but just in case...<p>Click on reply as you have done, (you can also click on edit and edit either of your post on this thread), then you just click in the screen to type and start typing. If you want to erase the other persons words just highlight and delete. If you want to append your answers through the other persons words you can keep their entire quote or delete things which are irrelevent to your answer and only take pieces of their post or take all their post. <p>To make your words or their words stand out in bold you can put this (with no spaces) [ b ] at the begining of the sentence and then put [ / b ] at the end of the sentence. <p>For examples on posting you can look through this thread and get an idea of how people used other post to respond.<p>If you want to add smiley faces, you can click on the smiley you want, if it puts it in a place you don't want just highlight it, hold ctrl button and his x, then click where you want it to go and hold the ctrl down and hit c. <p>[ QUOTE ] Also you can if you wish put something in quotes you can click on quote and then type or copy and paste inbetween the two brackets. Here's an example of what it would look like, in order for you to see this I added spaces.[/ QUOTE ]<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>If I do it correctly and combine the quote and the bold this is what I get.<hr></blockquote><p>Ok, here's probably the most important thing to remember on posting. As I am sure most Mbers will agree with me. As you are posting a long post, every now and then, highlight your entire post and hold down ctrl then copy. Before you click "Add Reply", highlight your words and copy also. I CAN NOT STRESS HOW MUCH YOU WILL REGRET NOT DOING THIS IF YOU TYPE A LONG THREAD. You may get an error after typing a long thread or post which tells you you didn't properly sign in and you will lose the entire work you did.<p>Well, take care and welcome to MB. If you have anymore questions, there are lots of nice people to help you.<p>ANNA<p>[ November 15, 2001: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]</p>