Hi, first of all..to SGAR32..I feel for ya buddy..Im one of those women you mentioned with the high sex drive..I allways have been..my husband NEVER wants it...and thats not an exageration..Ive gone through all the atempts to interest him in sex..eventually you get sick of begging for sex..talk about a self esteem killer..In fact the other day..after going more than 2 yrs without sex..I told him I was getting sick and tired of no sex...he said..laughing"well I guess I'll have to mount up again" even for me..that was like a bucket of Ice water..so now..I will absolutely not initiate sex with him again(I have allways been the one to do so) so..now Im 32 yrs old ...I dont believe in afairs..and I have no sex..and that pretty much sucks..doesnt it?..sigh..thanks for listening while I vent<P>------------------<BR>mae

Mae (or nothismother),<BR> Wow, I can relate to you 100%! I can't believe it's been 2 years. Maybe that's where I'm headed though! For us, it's once every couple of months(if I'm lucky!). My H conveniently blames his lack of drive on his health conditions (sleep apnea, which is being treated-low thyroid, which is being treated-and a borderline testosterone level, which he refuses to have treated!). But, I know that's a cop out. It's so frustrating! We're in our 30's (and I seemed to have reached my "peak" last year). When all these feelings came to a head last year, things were better than ever (and that was before he was being treated for all the health issues). He used to at least try once in a while to get in the mood-or at least try to satisfy me when I needed it--but now he doesn't even try anymore. And if I even try to get him in the mood (by what I wear, or what I do), he feels too much pressure--so i don't even try anymore. And, yes, it's a BIG self-esteem issue! Can't feel too good about yourself when you can't even turn your own husband on. He knows I really need that bond in our marriage, but seems resigned to the fact that he "can't get it up"--so, he doesn't even try anymore--and has no interest in finding a way to make it work, even though he knows I get frustrated and depressed when we go a long time without. He laughs about it too, like your husband. I'm back in one of my depressed moods, and while "channel surfing" last night everything he stopped on had something to do with sex! We just got the game show network, and he likes to watch the old Newlywed Game-and every other question has to do with "making whoopie"! I said "can we please watch something that does not make the reference to having sex?"--and he just laughed--and I was about to cry! The only way I can cope with this situation is to try to bury the sexual part of myself. And that really doesn't seem fair!

nothismother & sherl,<BR>How did we end up in this mess? My first marriage took a dive because I was away with the military most of our years together, of which there were 4 total. But, I experienced the same problem with that wife too. The sex started out great and then is just peetered out through time. Turns out she ended up sleeping with an older guy. Hence, the straw that broke the camel's back. Since our divorce, she has been with nothing but older men. During my break as a single guy, I dated a woman 9yrs older than me and viola!!!! She taught me things I had only fantasized about. There was no question that she was in her prime and we both took full advantage. She would sometimes drive 2hrs just to have sex with me. Talk about your self esteem BUILDER..<BR>Then, I moved and we went our separate ways. That's when I met my wife we began dating a few months after I moved into the area. We dated for close to a year and needless to say the sex was awesome!! As I mentioned earlier I was able to please her in ways that no other man had previously(She said so) She would call me her "Adonis" Now that is saying something..... At least I think.<BR>Now I'm feeling like that was all just a dream. I still have all the passion and desire as before, but, I feel as if I've hit a brick wall. Now the frequency is not as bad as what you all have mentioned. I mean we have sex at least once every two weeks..but it is very unfulfilling. Same time, same routine, same position. And whenever I try something new or something we had previously tried I get stifled in the process because...the kids are home. But, I mean I have to actually tell her to kiss me deeply or it is just little pecks on the cheek. YUCK !! <BR>I'm not a person who likes to settle for less. I have great dreams of what a loving and fulfilling marriage ought to be and great sex is certainly part of that ideal. It's like trying to complete a puzzle with missing pieces. The whole picture will never be there. Well I'm done rambling for now. Thanks

Hi again, sherl and sgar32 ..seems like there are a lot of us in the same boat..its such a shame that those who like sex end up with those who dont..<BR>sherl, funny that you should say that about the channel surfing..my husband loves to look at women on tv or once in a while he goes to strip clubs with his friends..or he'll download pictures from the net..but thats all hes interested in..it drives me crazy..how can he want to look at it and not like sex? by the way, he doesnt have a problem"getting it up" he just isnt interested in doing so..the way I look at is ..he just doesnt want to be bothered..<BR> sgar32,when I met my husband we could kiss for hours..I loved it...now,..like your wife I guess..he doesnt like to kiss at all...whats up with that???<BR>It's like Im living with my brother...<BR>I guess the most insulting part about the whole situation is..he knows that intimacy is important to me..and he just doesnt care at all...sigh..its just so sad<P>------------------<BR>mae

I have been with my mate almost 7 years. Before we married (almost 3 years ago) the sex was very frequent and fulfilling. After we married things cooled off a bit and I got frustrated. But, I remembered how much I love him and want him happy. So, I started to plan little things here and there to keep him wanting more. <P>I put little notes in his lunch box, leave messages on his phone, send him emails, then follow up on whatever I promised him at the end of the day. <P>We went for a long time (almost 2 months) with no sex, so I started a weekly routine. Once a week (usually Saturday or Sunday night), the kids went to bed early, and he and I spend quality time together. Sometimes we do a candle light bubble bath together. Sometimes we give each other body massages. Sometimes we sit in the dark and cuddle. Sometimes we snuggle. All these things eventually lead to making love, but they also give us the closeness we both want. This way, we can reconnect after a long week and feel like a couple again.<P>I know how hard it is to do things like this, but I believe what my grandmother always says. Your mate is your first priority, children come second. He and I have to work on our relationship as a couple if we want to stay a couple. <P>You can't stay married or in a relationship with continued coldness. We may not make love as often as I would like, but the time we are together is more important. You have to make sure the time you are together is satisfying for both of you, even if that means taking the initiative yourself. <P>It is the year 2000. Men don't always have to take the initiative. Sometimes they like the woman to initiate it. They are often even willing to reciprocate if they truly feel you are enjoying it. <P>My H wasn't much into foreplay for a long time. When I began setting up our little rendevous (sp) together, he became more willing to play and experiment. He wanted to feel close to me and saw how much I wanted to be close to him. <P>This may not work for everyone. It just depends on likes and dislikes and not everybody has a tub that will fit 2... :OD

Nicole, first of all ..Thats so great that you and your husband have an intimate and loving relationship.<BR>Unfortunately..for people to have a marriage like yours ...both husband and wife have to try...and be interested in trying.<BR>Believe me Ive tried and hes not interested.<BR>I tried to seduce him..it didnt work..I tried wearing a teddy...he said whats the point...I tried candles at dinner..he said put the lights on I cant see the food...<BR>as far as initiating goes..I am the only one who has EVER initiated..many people asume that its always the man who likes sex more than the woman...in our case that is absolutely wrong...I love sex..he couldnt care less about it . Its not only sex either..he doesnt like to kiss or cuddle..or talk..Ive tried ..and tried and tried..after a while you just give up...who needs to be turned down all the time? or to be made to feel like a sex maniac because you actualy love sex?<P>------------------<BR>mae

Sgar32,<BR>Read your post.<BR>I'm on the other end.I have found, that if you do the romantic things,etc.etc.etc,if she thinks at all that you are doing all this,so you can get some, it will back fire.Not sure of all the details but give her,her needs knowing full well that you are not expecting anything back in return. When you go to bed,snuggle to her,but that is all. Just talk to her.Talk...Talk....Talk,If you snuggle to her and get turned on,Say sweet dreams,give a sweet kiss and wait till she falls asleep, go to the bathroom and releive yourself.Do this for a little while. If you give her the attention and affection w/out getting anything back (sexual) she will come around.<BR>I know that from experience if you show your affection that always leads to sex it will!!! be a very big turn off!!!! My H,stoped meeting my needs a long....long.....long time ago,(just talking to me,How did my day go, ect.The kiss on the cheek when he came home from work or when he was leaving.)The only time I did get attention is when I knew he was horny!After awhile I got resentful and I started pushing him away.Hence the problem I face right now. I read His needs,Hers and have relized how horrible it was for me to do this.We are talking more now than ever, and are working on all the issues we have.<BR>I can tell you one thing,he completly stoped, I mean he stoped alltogether touching me. I thought that if he was not getting it from me that he was getting it from someone else and after reading the book, I turned into a complete sex animal!!!! I thought I better start meeting his needs or he will get it else where.Things are going better and were just taking it day by day.<BR>Hope that this helps.<BR>e-mail me back,if you want or any q.<BR>gsmith2@fayar.net<BR>G.S.<BR> <P>

I wonder if people actually realize how much pressure to perform some people feel in the area of sex. I would wager that many men get turned off about sex because they forget that it is allowed to be fun. Women enter thier seual primes in thier mid thirties just as men's are beginning to feel the need for Viagra. I STRONGLY urge the ladies out there to buy a copy of The Tao Of Love And Sex. Leave it around for a while and let your H find it. If you get no response for a while, bring up the subject. The Taoist approach to making love is amazing. An Inner Orgasm is a 100 fold as pleasurable as an external one. And older men don't feel drained by the experience, they get more revitalized and rejuvinated by the experience.<BR>The extra bonus is (no, not a Ginsu knife or spiral potatoe peeler) that you will find a major, repeat MAJOR hietening in the sensations of making love. Keep your man charged up rather than depleating his vital forces each time you have sex. I personally can get much more out of an encounter if my partner is pleased and I don't have a physical orgasm. Kind of a different approach in western thinking, but it works. Also investigate some of the Hindu methodology of sex. Thats my next direction of learning...<BR> , nudge , nudge, say no more!<P><P>------------------<BR>"Remember that every now and then you need to stop and eat the roses."<BR>-Bill The Cat

Ruby! Ruby! Ruby!! You are living what has been my life for the past couple years or so. Hubby and I had a pretty decent sex life for the first 7 years or so of our 10 year long marriage. I have always had the stronger drive but we seemed to do o.k. anyway. Well, little by little- he was getting all the satisfaction and then I would be lying there waiting- "what about me?" while his snores grew louder and louder. I would then stop initiating at all- but then we would go weeks and weeks without anything and then I would get pissed and make a move again- so at least we'd be doing something. He would once in awhile bring me to orgasm- but maybe once or twice a month.<BR>We had many conversations about this- he would apologize and promise to do better- but that would end pretty quickly.<BR>Flash to December 99: I suddenly find myself "falling in love" with one of my closest girlfriends! She had told me a while back that she had sexual feelings for me- but I just let it lie. Well, I'm a bisexual woman- who is completely frustrated at home- and now is focusing on a relationship with another woman- which let's face it: comes down to oral, oral, oral. <BR>Flash to January 2000: My EA is over (I ended up sexually frustrated by her as well!!)- I have agreed to no contact with her and hubby and I are enjoying an incredible resurgence in our marriage: especially in the bedroom! We are doing things we've never done- and I am only hoping that this will last! I think hubby got scared of losing me- and he got a bit turned on by my being desired by someone else. ( The girl-girl thing hasn't hurt!) Whatever it is- I am hoping this continues! We are getting a lot of help as well- counseling etc... and are trying to do what we can to protect us from this happening again.

I've been reading all your posts with interest. I'm 26, hubby's 28, been married almost 3 years, hubby lost interest right after our honeymoon.<P>I won't go into detail about our problems because all you have to do is pick any of the stories above and that would be mine!! It blows my mind that people who can be wonderfully sexually active before marriage or early in the relationship can do a total about-face after the long-term commitment has been made. My hubby can go weeks and months without feeling any desire whatsoever, and even when he does, he never initiates.<P>I'd be interested in hearing from the spouses with the "lower sex drives" as to what they're feeling and thinking. Why have they changed all of a sudden? There has to be a reason.<P>I remember my husband telling me that he couldn't feel turned on because he knew that every time I cuddled with him or kissed him, etc. I would just want it to lead to sex (very true). So I stopped cuddling, now I expect nothing from him and I get nothing.<P>Destroys all intimacy in a relationship, but what's one to do?

w.g.up.h<BR>I appreciate your suggestions and just wanted to follow up in the forum so others will benefit. I've tried just about everything you've mentioned. Books- "Been there done that" titles include: His Needs Her Needs, The Five Love languages, Silver Boxes, Letters from Phillip etc..... I told my W that I was buying them so that "I" could be a better Husband to her..... When I completed the books I told her how rewarding the reading was and that I learned alot about how to enhance the realationship. I suggested that she read them as well......She has yet to pick one of them up. Lately though she has managed to read upwards of 16-20 novels back to back. ????<BR>I've done the little random acts of kindness thing too........ flowers, cards and other little gifts. With no intentions of "getting some", I know that that is poison.... simply a golden rule principle. I wouldn't want it done to me.. The only thing that has created positive results for us is little getaways. When we go away for a day or two..I like to make it special (jacuzzi, king bed, chocolates, champagne, beautiful scenery -- Get the picture??) This seems to have incredible results. My wife is a different person... we talk, we hold hands, we cuddle, we have SEX and she wears me out.<BR>Unfortunate thing is .... It costs alot of money and thus we can only do it once a year or so. I've often asked her.. Why she is so different when we are away and cannot have the same feelings when we are at home....? All I hear is .. "I don't know." She will tell me what a wonderful time she had and we will hold each other all the way home...But I know that as soon as we get home... the fantasy is over. Within a week, I'm left holding the ball and all things are back to square one.

Hi all,<BR>I haven't responded for quite some time. and I see the same problems are being discussed. I want to see what some of you think of this. Our sex life has been difficult at best with my H from time -tome saying he is not sexually attracted to me. But he was very sexual the weekend he asked me to marry him. One weekend we were snowed in and he was a sexual bomber all day. Another time on a trip when my backed was turned Wham! Another time when we were visiting my daughter and we all had the flu and my mom and daughter were sleeping in the next room, there he was up again. Go figure. But in an ordinary loving consistancy he is not interested. When questioning him he gives this "not sexually attract" business and today when I approached the subject again and he gave me that pat answer. You could see a drowsiness come over him and he went to bed and was instantly asleep. and this has happened before. What a confusing quagmire. <P>I am going to try some of Mudders suggestions<BR>and just focus on his needs if possible. Surely if he loves me and he says he does he will respond. <P>But any light on the sleep overcoming him will be appreciated.<P>didi

Wow gang,<BR>havent checked in this forum in quite sometime. Interesting that its turned up again.Nothing has changed in the bedroom on our end 8(<BR>For me I chalk it up to his being totally emotionally unavailable, self absorbed and just plain selfish in general. Things are not good in my neck of the woods...but I continue to keep by gloves on and fight for a better marriage, unfortunately it takes two. Good luck to all you folks working on a better sex life.<BR>ruby

Emmiebear,<P>I may be one of those "low drive" spouses you want to hear from. Only I don't really know if you would call it a low drive. I get aroused often, when alone, and I masterbate daily -- sometimes more than once a day. But I just can't get turned on with my husband. (I also tried not masterbating for about four months hoping I'd get more interested in him). I don't know what to say. I love him, I don't want to be with anyone else. I try to please him. I never EVER tell him no -- we have sex at least three times a week, but he hates the fact that I never get aroused with him. In the beginning I was more enthusiastic because I was optimistically trying to discover a way I could reach orgasm with him, but when, after so long, it was still so rare that I could, I think it was just easier not to get aroused than to be frustrated.<BR>I have read all the books, as well, but have no solutions. And, yes, we have had in depth discussions about it.<BR>I realize this is no help at all other than to give you the perspective of the "other" side.<BR>

CC14,<BR>Have you ever tried using a vibrator during intercourse? I can count on my left hand the number of times Ive climaxed during sex without help. I know one thing that really was good although it hasnt been preformed in 3 years : Him giving you oral stimulation to the point of almost climaxing and then him penetrating. Its the best of both worlds...I do believe climaxing orally vs sexually are two different feelings of ectacy. <BR>CC14, I think also, we have to get ourselves pummped up for the encounter beforehand to enjoy it. Easier said than done especially if there are emotional needs that perhaps your H doesnt meet for you. I speak for myself but my other reason for not really wanting to be with him sexually is not out of punishment but out of unresolved issues that he sweeps under the carpet, coupled by my basic marital frustrations.<BR>I think too that when I act more loving I definetly feel more affectionate toward the H. He needs to stop being so out for himself sexually.<BR>ruby

Ruby,<P>Thanks for input. We have picked the emotional needs thing apart and I honestly feel he is meeting mine -- such as they are. Well, I say that because one of my biggest "needs" is independence and he gives me all the space I need. (I know it's not on Harley's list but we agreed that it is important to both of us, so it's on OURS).<BR>At this point my problem is not inability to achieve orgasm -- but inability to be aroused PERIOD by him or with him. He can give me oral stimulation for an hour and I don't feel a flicker. It has become such an issue with us I am about to the point of just faking it, although I hate the idea of that.

CC14, <BR>Naw, dont fake it Chickadee!!!! I hope things get better for you gal. Just let everyone know when the earth moves...lol<P>take care,<BR>ruby

I was just wondering where all of you women were when I was looking for a wife? My wife is 35, and that seems to be the time when many women hit their sexual prime, but she is just as uninterested as ever. I, who am also 35, have the same stamina and energy that I had at 18. <P>Why is it that those of us who have incredible sex drives end up with people who have none? My wife prefers that I pleasure myself and not bother her. This is becoming very frustrating. I have even read about Mudder's wife approaching him and asking what fantasies he would like her to fulfil. My wife has stated that fantasies would never enter our bedroom because then it "would not be us". What a crock!!<P>After reading the earlier comment about the woman who loved receiving oral sex up to the point of orgasm and then enjoying penetration, I got even more frustrated. This is something I have asked my wife to allow me to do for her for our entire 12 years together. From what I have read, it looks like many women would absolutely love this. <P>Anyway, thanks for listening to my whining, I guess I just need to get used to the fact that I will never be satisfied.<P>John

Hi..again..<BR>John, whine whenever you feel like it..doesnt bother me..nothing like being in a marriage with little to no sex to make you whine. Are you saying that your wife doesnt want oral sex? wow. If thats the case and if fantasy turns her off..maybe she has some mental issues about sex being dirty or bad.<BR>Could be she just doesnt like sex..hard for me to fathom..but you never know.<BR>I often ponder the same question about why those who like sex get together with those who dont. I think one of the reasons is that those who dont ..seem like they do at first...then youre in love with them ..so the dwindling sex doesnt seem to matter too much..untill it pretty much dissapears. One day you wake up..and you realize that youre married to someone who doesnt like sex..and you said to death do us part..so basically ..youre done..whether you like it or not if you believe in marriage ..sex is over...I know..a depressing thought.<BR><P>------------------<BR>mae

Nothismother: I fear I too have woken to find the woman I love has very little interest in sex and/or showing affection. <P>I do also remember the vow "to have and to hold". Hmmm..