Hi all!
Boy, things have been very active on this thread for the past day or two.

Dave: I'm sorry to hear about your situation. The first thing I would do is meet with the MC to find out whether it's a good idea for your W to spill her guts or protect(or guard) your feelings. It's going to be hard to recover if revalations keep popping up. Another thing that you need to speak to MC about is whether to inform the biker's W about the incident. As a real friend, she needs to know that she is living with a scumbag who has probably strayed to other women. Personally, biker would not be a friend of mine. With friends like biker, who needs enemies? I'm so sorry Dave. Talk to the MC.

Avondale: Does your H want his cake and eat it too? You may want to inform Steve about the separation agreement to determine whether he wants you to stay in plan a. At this point in my relationship with my w, I do not have time for small talk. If she want small talk, she can talk to her buddies and OM. You may want to ask your H whether he is going to move his things out since he is legally separated. Also, please resolve your tax issue with him ASAP. If you owe money, try to get it resolve soon. You don't want any lingering debt with him.

Oops! I need to go to wake kid up for school. I'll be back later.

Later.

Thanks everyone, I have an IC scheduled with our MC at 5pm today... I feel like my W needs to tell bikers W, they are best friends..butit needs to be W decision... If biker did this with W, he will do it again and again, and at some point he will get caught... at some point he will get what he deserves... Personally, I will never speak to him again, ever, unless I decide to tell him what I think of him but I am trying to hold off on that.

Avondale, sorry to hear about the seperation agreement, but we also went through a legal seperation and child custody,so you never know, you are doing the right thing, leave it in Gods hands.

Petvet, Wallace, RMA, Relady, EC,hope all is well.

Take care,
Dave

I'm back.

Relady: Welcome. Since you have had no communication with your H, you may want to contact him if possible to see what his intentions are. It may take him a while to come around since he has found him a younger gal. Thirty years huh? That is funny, but not uncommon. When she finds someone with more to offer, she will kick him to the curb. I will assure of that.

Dave: Stay strong.

Later.

Hi All,

Avondale25, Sorry to hear about your separation agreement, but hang in there. Remember God saw this day coming and He has made provisions for it, just ask Him what your next step is and lean not to your own understanding.

There is a six month waiting period in my state for divorce, However; I'm not thinking about divorce or reconciliation. IMHO When BS operates from "emotions" we always lose, because they will always let you down when you need them the most.
So, I try to keep them in a straight line by analyzing the thoughts I allow to linger in my mind. Sounds like I have it all together, huh? WRONG! I still allow the tears to come periodically.

PetVet,

I a little confused by your advice <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Since there has been no contact for 3 months, won't my H feel I should know his intentions? And if not, won't they become clear eventually? Besides that, he left under a 'cloak of darkness'; he needs to find out what my intentions are, like do I have a gun!! LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hi All,
O.k., where do I start?
There is quite a bit going on... it has to be in the air.
Within these last couple of years... it seems like this country is losing all of it's morale standards. I do believe we are heading for end times... this world can't keep going down the path it is... well now that I got that off my chest.
Petvet...
How are you doing?
You were MIA for a little bit... how are you making out?
RMA...
You have given such wonderful advice and insight as to all that is going on with our trials and tribulations... you are truly a very kind and considerate person.
May the Lord bless you always.
How are "you" doing, and how did your garden finally turn out?
Dave...
In my opinion I think you are on the right track with this latest development.
I wouldn't make too much more out of it, but I would keep my eye on it... and you already know about finding a new set of friends.
Avondale...
I'm so sorry to hear about how your "H" handled the seperation agreement.
When our spouses are in the "fog", they are capable of just about anything at anytime.
They have a total disregard for our feelings, as they are to caught up in their own selfish needs to worry about anything else.
I would keep the lines of communication open with your "H" as much as possible, and work a good "PLan A" without becoming a doormat or allowing yourself to experience any additional hurt while working your "Plan A".
Much can happen before your "D" is final.
The Lord will take you down the path that he feels is in your best interest and is best for you.
Your holding up well... with all that you have happening right now.
Keep up the good work.
relady...
I think Avondale put quite a few things into perspective... I fully agree with what she has brought forth.
I'm rambling I know, but I will try to make this brief.
As far as communication... "why men let things go to a point of no return".
It's not just men... woman do it to.
I'll give you my STBXW as an example... she
did the very same thing as your "H"... let it go to the point of no return.
My STBXW has had multiple "affairs", and got caught.
Why no communication? I think it's a combination of a number of things... shame, guilt, low self esteem, the list goes on.
They can't face us, due to their actions.
They know what they have done, but they don't care, and they don't know how to deal with it... at least for know they don't.
So this is their answer, no contact... because "really"! What are they going to say?
In the long run... it will be their loss, not ours.
Are you moving too fast? Somedays you will feel that you are moving at 1000 mph, and other days you will feel as though you are stuck in a rut... it's the start of the roller coaster ride IMHO, and it is not a fun ride to be on.
Keep your focus on the Lord... put God first and foremost in your life, and you will get through this, no matter what the outcome.
Stay Strong!
Wallace

Relady
Your husband really isn't in any "shape" to truly "know" anything. Do you have any idea where he is, or is it as if he's in the witness protection program? Maybe he got abducted by aliens and that's why his behavior is so bizarre <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> (that is what I say about my H sometimes, LOL).

You can't assume that you know what his intentions are. After all, I think you said you two haven't talked much about your situation. How have you handled his mail, banking, etc.? Have you not needed to contact him about anything like that? Although I didn't see my H for 8 weeks straight after he moved out, we did have to correspond through e-mail a few times to settle things initially. Surely there has been (or could/will be) an opportunity to interact with him. If so, I'd use that time to not LB and to show him how you've changed (even if you don't need to change, you can change his faulty perception of you). I would welcome the opportunity for a mature discussion just for personal peace of mind and knowledge to help in any future relationships. I don't know much about your particular situation but I wonder even about taking off your ring after being separated 3 months. Petvet & Wallace had been separated for years (I think) before they did that. I guess what I'm saying is, don't do anything hastily, don't burn any bridges behind you, while you're still in this transitional phase. Oh, and thanks for the gun warning <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

RMA , I meant to ask you earlier...if you don't call him a "boyfriend" what do you call him? Just curious, I know what you mean about those terms when you're over 30, LOL

Hi All,

Wallace

I'm sure it's not just women, "fog" apparently has no gender <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Avondale

I have no idea where my H is. Every telephone number I discovered has been disconnected. I'm sure I could do some snooping and find him, but I haven't had a desire to do that. Before he left, he said some of the most horrible things imaginable as I'm learning that all WS do.

He changed his address on the things he wanted to come directly to him and I get the junk mail. We never had a bank account together per his request which was one of the problems. From what I've been hearing lately, this isn't the first time he's disappeared from a relationship!

If I have an opportunity to interact with him, I definitely won't LB, even before he left I deposited many units to no avail.

I took off my ring because it no longer represents what it was meant to. I'm not doing things hastily, or burning bridges. I'm allowing God's perfect will to be done in this situation, and when I get directions to move forward, I will.

Remember, we have no children, married 3 years, I owned the house. One of the things my H said before he left was, "don't expect me back"

relady

Wallace

Sorry, I mean 'men'

relady

Relady,
Thanks for the clarification...sounds like y'all have been on different wave lengths for a while. Keep us posted if anything new develops:)

Avondale,

Gee, does that mean my case is hopeless?

relady

Hi All,
relady...
I'm going to try to answer your question as best I can.
Why do men (and or women... LOL) let things get to the point of no return?
I'll try to sum it up in two words...
SELFISH and SELF CENTERED..
IMHO, I believe that it all evolves around those two words.
The "WS" is all consumed with themselves... nothing else matters... and their life at this point in time evolves around those two words by virtue of their actions and their thoughts.
I don't know if that helps explain why they let things go to the point of no return, but for me, those two words help explain why the "WS" conducts themselves in the manner that they do.
Stay Strong!
Wallace

Hi again relady,
Your case is not hopeless... anything but.
I know exactly the position your in... my STBXW has done much of the very same things as your "H".
I... like you... could locate my STBXW if I really, really wanted to.
I chose not to pursue that avenue.
If she wanted the "M" as badly as I had, she would of found a way to make contact.
I know if I was in her position, I sure would of figured a way to try to bring us back together again if I had any concern for my marriage.
So in essence... her actions, and her lack of communication, speak volumes as to the state of our "M".
I'm going to give her what she wants... OUT of the marriage.
I will be "D" in about 3 weeks.
I have no regrets... I gave it everything I had and then some.
I will be able to walk away from my marriage with that in mind, I'm not so sure she will be able to the same.
relady... you should be working on you while you have the time... Plan A.
Plan A is really for you, it's not intended to be used as a lure to get the other spouse back.
If they are around to notice the changes in you, then so much the better... but in essence it's to make changes for the better for you.
I would work on Plan A, and if your "H" has contact with you, he will notice the changes.
Stay Strong!
Wallace

Relady
No, I don't think ANY case is hopeless in the early stages of separation, yours included! (Sorry if it came across that way, not what I meant at all.) As you said, you were Plan A'ing before you even know of Plan A (me too!) So you were already ahead of the situation before he left <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> That's great!

Wallace is totally right about selfishness and self-centeredness being the main cause of why WS do these stupid things they do. They are only looking out for themselves and their own personal satisfaction, usually for the moment, not for the good of the whole (such as couple/family/kids) and certainly not for any long-term planning.

Hi All,

Now that I have finished "crying" myself a river", I feel much better. I haven't done that in over a month.

In reading all the other posts at MB, there is so much pain. God can not be pleased. How in the world can so many WS's think that they could possibly reap any kind of happiness in light of what they have sowed is beyond me. Meanwhile the devil convinced them that they had a bad marriage so they left, and he's sitting in the corner laughing at them. Yet claiming another marriage! Pathetic!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

You guys, Wallace, PetVet, RMA, Avondale are the most awesome bunch of people. Through all of your posts right back to page 1, I have been inspired by your strength, and courage. Thank you all for being there and welcoming me without judgement <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I am continuing to take this time to work on myself. I'm reading a book entitled, 'Finding Peace for Your Heart: A Womens Guide to Emotional Health, by Stormie Omartian.

I'm currently thinking that any attempt I might make to contact my H would be very painful, because as long as he's in this "fog", what he has to say would probably not be kind, and push me back to step 1.

Take Care All, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Have a great and wonderful weekend,

relady

relady,

You wrote:"IMHO When BS operates from "emotions" we always lose, because they will always let you down when you need them the most."

Good point! It is sooooo hard to not let one's hurt and anger drive the decisions that have life-long ramifications. Yet, each person involved in the affair - the WS and the BS - needs to really think things through carefully before making decisions such as to divorce or not. Unfortunately, too many jump too quick based on the emotions of the moment, without thoughtful and thorough analysis of the situation and ALL the options. Too often, people only see 2 options - divorce or return to an unfulfilling marriage. The third option is often disregarded by not just one of the spouses, but often by both of the spouses: creating the marriage you want with the partner you already have. Sad thing is this: even if one partner "sees" the third option, it does no good if the other partner refuses to "see" this an option. Alas, that is why so many of us ended up on this board.

avondale,

Glad you got to counsel with Steve. Makes you feel uplifted and inspired, doesn't he?? I enjoyed the sessions I did with him. You know, Plan A techniques are wonderful. They will help you no matter who you are dealing with. If you get the chance, do practice them on your H. You may end up back in Plan B at some point later, but kindness and respect to your H are good things no matter how things end up with you two.

Oh, I do call him my "boyfriend" or my "guy". I just don't like the term - makes me feel like a teen!

Wallce, I am well, friend. We are still going strong - my guy and me. The garden really did produce a ton for having a drought. Now, with the tropical storm, it has rained for a couple weeks almost every single day, and the tomatoes are starting to rot from too much water. You know - one extreme to the other! But, I have canned and frozen and eaten so many. I still have some coming in, but things have definitely begun to dwindle in terms of tomato production, due to the cooler nights.

Only 3 weeks to your divorce, huh? Know that prayers are definitely coming your way. You will continue to have mixed feelings for a while, Wallace. Glad that you are no longer legally tied to your W due to her actions, but incredibly sad as it signals the death of the family you had known and loved. It is going to hurt for a while more, Wallace. Thinking of you and your kids.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{Wallace}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

davepr, how did the counselling session go? Thought about you today. Well, at least, I think you had that session today. Let us know how things go. But, it seems plausible that you are just going through a normal grieving and angert phase. I agree with Petvet - this guy isn't your friend. But, I respect that you will leave the truth-telling up to your W.

Petvet, how is your son getting along these days? Is his Mom spending much time with him? I havemn't noticed you posting about her visitation lately.

RC, where did you go? No news from you for a couple days, I think. Just saying Hello and hope that all is well with you.

Hope I did not miss anyone. Have a good Friday night, friends!

RMA

Hi all!

Well, the court date is November 7th. Part of me feels good and another part feels bad. I wish the date was sooner. November seems so far away. I feel bad for my kid. He is having alot of problems in school. We are considering moving him to another school. One of his teachers who knows w told me that she wants to have a woman to woman talk with her. He told me recently that he doesn't understand why mom is living somewhere else. It makes me sooo angry when I think about
it. That letter that I was going to send to W
about a week ago, I sent out earler this week
after I had shorten it. The letter basically says that if she wants to meet with her pastor to try to work things out that I am open to such a meeting. As of today, she has not accepted my offer. My mom, in laws, teachers, etc. are worried too death about the kid. I can tell that my inlaws have aged on their faces since this mess started. My father in law is not his happy go lucky self lately. RMA, w sees son everyother weekend and on Tuesday. My attorney has given w one more chance to sign cs agreement. The deadline is Tuesday. At this point, it does not matter whether she sihns it or not since the court date is so close. I know that all of her friends and OM (I still believe he is around some how some way)are hailing her as a hero. She believes that she will end up on top. Lately, whenever we get into some sort of conversation, she blames me for everything.

RMA: I'm happy to hear that things are going well between you and your man. To be honest with you, I have not paid much attention to garden lately, especially, since my melons did not see the light
of day.

Relady: Take this time to build yourself up mentally and physically. Don't be hard on yourself; many of us did not come to this MB site until it was too late. I hook onto this site in time if only my w would have cooperated. You will have to make the decision as to when you are going to cut the rope. It will come in time.

Wallace: Well, you and I are really in the same boat now. I'm not going to use the manter "STBXW" because I don't view my impending court date as a happy time.I am prepared to move on but this was not what I wanted. I still care for my w. I know that I will fall in love again. I want that in my life. One thing that I am so happy about is that I get to raise my kid. At least, I am not a visitor. People really respect that from men.

Avondale: What's up?

Dave: How did things go?

EC: Where aaaare you?

I'm glad I have you folks to interact with.You have been a life saver.

Later.

Petvet/Wallace,I am so sorry that it has come to this, I pray for you and your children..

IC went well,she did help me find some positive signs in this mess...regarding where we go from here, obviously we don't want to be friends with him anymore, my W is very uncomfortable around him, he is a preditor,he preys on the weak.
Our MC said that we cannot continue to make excuses to avoid them, that we need to tell them
why without going into the details. Thefore,we are going to tell biker guy that we are both not
comfortable with his feelings toward W and therefore we can no longer be friends. As far as his W,we will not tell her anything except that she should discuss with her H as to why we don't come around anymore. It is not fair that our M
has to deal with this, he caused the problem, therefore we are going to give it back to him.
We have had a few very good days since all of this,I am still dealing with the A but it will get better.

Petvet,I commend you for sending the letter, I hope it gets the results you are looking for.

Take care everyone,hope you have a great weekend.
Dave

Here I is, I is baaaaack.....

Hellwo guys and gawls.....A little elmer in me.

Nothing new happening here. I am just trying to take it one day at a time. Looks like everyone has some interesting things going on here. Haven't spoke to exw or D's. My YD b-day is in about 3 weeks, trying figure out what to send a seventeen year old. I really miss her.

Its sad but I don't take the blame that I missed OD 11,12 grade years and now missing YD 10,11,12...Sometimes I want to be there with all my heart but WW has dangerous OM in the house I can't take the risk eventhough I want to face him sometimes....they're both snakes..

I remember reading WW's emails and how people rooted her on in leaving me, they would tell her you got this far you can't stop now...Sounds just like the devil to me..anyway what they didn't know was all her affairs going on, she was decieving these people making me out as some monster and her some soft sheep in a bad marriage.

My WW was so good she even had my sister convinced I was a problem until my sister heard my side and realized she was seduced by WW manipulation. When my sister went to FL in May she saw it for herself with OM there.....

I told exw my sister knew OM been around for sometime and exw was fumming, she said "You big bunch of gossipers" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> mind your own business.....

Sister and exw has been best friends since 11 years old until all this.

I laughed <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> at that comment because she thinks what she is doing is not a topic for discussion, thats where the Self-Centerness really shows itself.

So here's what WS's want us BS's to know while they do their dirty work and A's in your face.."Mind your own business you big bunch of gossipers don't you know affairs and adultery are private and personal, if you see me with OP, turn your head and don't ask questions!!!" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Take Care

Hi everyone involved. Read all of this from page one on and now I come back to see whats occuring. Im Nitehawk my post is Communication/Plan B. I am geeting closer to my divorce from BS but there is always a glitch that stalls it. For one trying to do this amicalbly {pro se} with someone you don't trust. If we don't do something by Oct. 24th the case is dismissed. Yes sometimes I want this but more times I want to get this over with so I can get on with my life
What I want God would not approve of because we are still married. Ive tried all the plans since Sept 28th 2001. Sometimes it seemed like they were working in the beginning but as time went on her OM and family and friends let her know and convinced her he is a great guy and I will always be the jerk. There are no morals in her group of people.
This is a great site to learn andlive by. Take care and good luck to all. We all could use some

EC,

I really had to laughoutloud when I read your post. Sorry, 'cause it really isn't funny. I just laughed at the ridiculousness of your exW - gossiping about her and OM! Gee whiz! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

nitehawk,

Hello, and welcome to this thread. You get a pat on the bak for reading through so many pages! Really, this post has chronicled the evolution of Petvet's relationship with is wife. Yet, I do agree, there is alot of good advice here. I will go and check out your post.

Petvet,

So you finally got a court date. I truly do hope and pray that your W will answer your letter and agree to the counselling effort with your pastor. If she does agree, it won't guarantee success, but at least will be a barometer of her willingness to exhaust all avenues before giving up. if she doesn't respond, then I think it means she just isn't to the point where any meaningful recovery could take place, because she has no desire or willingness to fight and work for it.

No matter how that plays out, I think yoiu have done one of the finest jobs of following Harley's principles. You have been so good and kind to her, yet established appropriate boundaries and consequences. You seem to have done little to no LB'ing or venting and disrespectful judgements to her. You really have done just virtually everything you can do. You should be proud of yourself. Know that you have earned the respect of many people here, including me.

Take care, RMA