Hi Lizbeth (and anyone else interested in my crappy life),<P>I noticed you asked for an update on what's going on with me in the post where dj asked to email me. So, here goes --<P>Things ain't going so well lately. Last week things seemed to be looking up. On Friday my wife and I went out for a movie and dinner and had a pretty good time. And on Saturday, we went over to some of our friends' house for a bbq. I thought things were OK. But on Sunday, W became upset and said that I started becoming distant again. I didn't think I was. I was a little down on Sunday morning, but I thought I was hiding it well. I personally think she got upset over something I posted to you and loveWASblind over the weekend. I don't even remember the post. But she denies that anyway. She says that it was just because I was getting distant ever since Saturday.<P>So anyway, we got into a fight on Sunday night. She started yelling at me that I purposefully want to make her upset and that's why I've been distant again. I was really perplexed because like I said, I didn't even think I was acting distant. The really bad thing that happened though, was that our son came out of his bedroom (he had just gone to bed, but wasn't asleep yet), and he asked what was going on. My wife told him that mom and dad were getting a divorce. Now, I understand that she was upset and everything, but that got me very angry. Of course, my son started bawling his eyes out! It was heartwrenching to say the least. We both went up to comfort him. I initially tried to keep my wife away from him, I was so PISSED! He eventually calmed down enough to go to sleep, but that was a terrible thing for her to say.<P>So we've basically not been speaking since Sunday. She still reads all my posts and got very upset with me yesterday. I was trying to convince Holly not to go to her old workplace where her OM is. I said stuff about my OW that got W very upset. In retrospect I shouldn't have said those things because I know she reads my posts and I've since apologized. Major love-buster. But I was just trying to help Holly by relating my similar experiences.<P>So that's where I am. I sleep on the couch currently. I talked to my son about what happened Sunday night. Told him that mom and dad had "adult stuff" to work out. He asked "like taxes and stuff?" and I said "no, it's about our relationship." He hasn't said anything about it since then.<P>Tomorrow (Friday) is my last day at my current company (where the OW also works). It's very hard to leave here! I've been here for almost 10 years. That's pretty much a third of my life! I've gotten emails the last few days from old friends in the company that make me want to break down and cry. I'm gonna miss this place, even though my new job is an incredible opportunity.<P>--andy

Oh yeah, one other thing. W emailed OW last night. I have no idea what was in the email. I just caught a glimpse of it. I don't really want to know anyway.<P>After she sent it, she told me that I better not email OW about it, and that if OW emails me, that I should tell W. I wasn't planning on emailing OW and I'm sure I'll tell her if I get a note from OW (I'm pretty positive OW won't email me anyway -- I'm 99.9% out of her life, and the other .1% will clear up when I leave the company), but I didn't appreciate the love-busting tone of being TOLD to do that. So I just sat there on the couch and said "yeah".<P>Right about now, I just want to be left alone.<P>--andy

Hey Andy,<P>Well, I gotta' tell ya', I'm probably not good company right now. I'm pretty much feeling the same way you are. You took the words out of my mouth: <<< Right about now, I just want to be left alone. >>> Actually, I probably am feeling very similar to your wife. I'm trying not to lovebust, but I'm sure I must be. My biggest problem is making demands. Something may happen that touches on my fears, like a discussion about something my H has done that hurts me, and I go into overdrive trying to get my life back under control. I'm consummed with thoughts about how things are the same as before and "how can I trust him?", and wonder if I've been too trusting. I guess I overcompensate by making demands so that he PROVES that I can trust him. It's very hurtful behavior. It comes from feeling extremely vulnerable.<P>Like I said, I think I'm doing better avoiding making demands this time. At the same time, I also want to run away from this marriage that causes me so much pain. I want my H to bend over backwards to prove that I can trust him, but I want to be completely emotionally withdrawn so I won't be hurt anymore. Make sense? I've learned not to hold my breath waiting for my H to make some grand gesture of love. Not because he's thoughtless, but because he has no idea what I need during these times. He's probably hurt and angry himself.<P>How about that rollercoaster?? Up one day, down the next... It must have hurt you very much when your wife said those things to your son. I'm sure part of it must be because his feelings are very important to you. You know how Dr. Harley talks about the rule of protection? Don't intentionally do things to hurt your spouse. Saying those things to your son is another way of hurting you (obviously). You must feel betrayed by your wife's outburst. Just guessing.<P>I'm not clear on what you've been writing in your posts, but as long as it is honest and doesn't crticize your wife I'm not sure I'd consider it lovebusting. But then again, anything that SHE considers lovebusting IS by definition. I'm not sure what is lovebusting in YOUR marriage. I wonder, though, if what is upsetting your wife is reading about your feelings for the OW. I think it is completely normal for that to be upsetting, and for her to be very hurt. Sometimes what is true in our relationships hurts. I think it's important to be honest, even when the truth may hurt.<P>Have you agreed to any guidelines for this forum? Like, what is it supposed to be for you? A place to work through your feelings, get support, give support, what? I think it's great for your wife to read what you write. It helps build trust. I'm sure it's very painful, too.<P>I'm soory about your job. It must be sad to leave such a big part of your life behind on such mixed terms. It's good that you're moving on, and I'm sure that you don't want to stay. Still, you must be sad to leave.<P>Lizbeth<P><p>[This message has been edited by Lizbeth (edited September 02, 1999).]

Airheart, I didn't know W had a OM also? I'm confused...where can I read your full story?<P>Sorry things are so hard for you right now...my prayers are with you.<P>Tracy<P>------------------<BR>"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me."

Lizbeth -- I'm sorry to hear that you're still struggling with the trust issue. I know that's gonna be very hard. Has your husband gone to a doctor about his bipolar disorder yet? If so, hopefully you'll see some improvements with meds. I'm crossing my fingers for you! Don't let those feelings overwhelm you. I know it's pretty hard, but you'll just have to accept at the moment that your husband is not very trustworthy, and work from there.<P>I'll have to clarify about my job -- I said I've been there a third of my life, er... bad math -- actually closer to a quarter... I'm 37 (gonna be 38 in a few months).<P>I'm gonna hafta tone down my posts here. My wife especially gets upset if I talk about details. Yesterday she got upset when I mentioned some of the ego boosting things the OW said to me. Your thought about working out rules for this forum is probably a good idea. I wanna be able to come here and say whatever is on my mind, but I don't want to love-bust either.<P>About my son -- no I really didn't feel betrayed by what she did. I just couldn't believe that she would be so inconsiderate of his feelings like that. Didn't she know he'd be crushed by hearing that? But she didn't give it a second thought. She'll probably read this and get mad at me for saying that cuz after all, I'm the one who made her feel that way. No win situation.<P>Tracy -- My wife doesn't have an OM. You might've read something wrong in my post? She emailed my other woman. My story is kinda spread around on different threads... you might be able to piece it together by doing a search...<P>--andy

Andy,<P>TRUST. Yuck. I've accepted that this will be an issue for quite some time, and that I don't trust my H. That's okay. I don't need to trust him right now to forgive him and start to rebuild. He needs time to learn how to be honest, too. I will only continue to hurt myslef if I expect him to suddenly start being honest. But, yes, I am plagued by moments of doubt and terror. Part of the process, I guess.<P>We went yesterday to see his therapist. I was very blunt that I wasn't there to address our marriage, I'm doing that with Steve Harley. We BOTH have a lot of work to do in that department. She seemed to think I'm trying to blame my H for our marital issues. She thinks I trigger his behavior. I don't think she believed my perceptions of my H to be very accurate, and she was very protective of him. Even my H interjected sometimes to tell her that I wasn't exaggerating. She insists that my H's problems are behavioral, and that he is capable of changing his behavior. I left crying. I was so frustrated! I wanted to scream "You don't know what it's like!"<P>My H thanked me for trying, even though he was initially angry with me. He agreed to see a psychiatrist. I'm looking for one today.<P>Rules would probably be good. It probably won't stop your wife from getting upset, but should help. I'm curious what you end up working out. I'm hoping to get my H involved someday...<P>Have you guys filled out the lovebusters questionnaires?<P>Lizbeth

Lizbeth,<P>We haven't filled out the love-buster questionnaire OR the emotional needs questionnaire yet. I've printed out the emotional needs one, but haven't really been able to fill it out. Every time I read it, I don't know where to start. yeesh.<P>Sounds like your hubby is making a really good effort this time around. The fact that he thanked you for going to the therapist, and that he's gonna go to a psychiatrist are both great signs! I'm encouraged for you! (BTW, his therapist's attitude is rather disturbing... don't know what you can do about that though. hmmm...).<P>--andy

knock, knock...can i come in again?<BR>lizbeth-i've had bad therapists, i know bad therapists, your H has a rotten therapist. If his problem is "behavioral", then how is she proposing he change? I'm proud of him for "sticking up" for you, so to speak, by not letting himself manipulate her. That was a good sign on his part, i think. I'm glad you went, too, gives you some insight.<P>airheart- i am so going to miss you(r postings) (didn't you say you'd virutally stop when you started your new job? or am i a couple pages behind?)<BR>at any rate, i think a change of workscene will really change your marriage. It'll be a whole new set of issues to deal with, and you and W can put the past behind you...wow, what are you going to do on your vacation, anyway? got any good plans?<P>well, just wanted to say hi, my life is pretty even-keel right now...till the next phone bill rolls in, at least

lWb,<P>I don't remember saying that I'll not be able to post much after I start my new job, but that's pretty much true. I'll be WAY busier there. I'll have to save my posts til I get home at night. I'll still be around but I won't be as big a presence. <P>--andy

Andy--<BR>Oh no! No more posting for you at work! I really appreciate all the advice you offered me! I often think I should stop posting so much myself. I would probably think about the OM less if I wasn't posting all the time. Besides, I really should be getting some work done.<P>I hope things get better for you...hang in there.<P>Be sure to check the forum at night...I will let you know what happens tomorrow.

the phone bill... LOL! <P>BTW Andy, when did you say you start this new job exactly? I think lWb is right, I think this new job is going to really change your marriage. I'll miss your posts, too. I know I don't seem to have as much time to keep up when my H is around (maybe I should get a job, so I'll have more free time. ).<P>Yeah, guys, I'm wondering about H's therapist. I went in there guns blazing, to be honest. I felt her disagreement from the get-go, as I explained that I wanted her input on my H's behavior because I believe he has some type of mood disorder. Then I just started rattling off things that he has said and done, figuring I would just give what I'd observed and let her draw her own conclusions. My H got argumentative when I discussed his impulsive spending, and was shocked that I told her details about our sex life (like in my profile). She thinks I'm over-sensative to his frequent talk about his impending death, and that I don't share his sense of humor because I don't like that he makes comments to my daughter about how "ALL the goats are DEAD" when she asks about where the goats (or any other animals) are. She agreed that he probably shouldn't be telling her to call me a "b*tch" and teaching her curse words. There's tons more, but those are some of the highlights. She said she will discuss this with my H next week. We'll see...<P>I know what you mean about those questionnaires. It's taken me weeks to do the Lovebusters Questionnaire. It was a great way to vent about my H, though. I could write down every little thing that upset me. Maybe your wife would get something out of it, too. You wouldn't have to share the info yet if you didn't want to. I got through the questionnaire by first writing everything my H did, then I went back and wrote which things hurt the most, then how often these lovebusters occured, and so on...<P>You know, Andy, when you said a third of your life it didn't even strike me. Now I see what you mean though, somewhere between a third and a quarter...<P> Lizbeth