None of you know me. I read here a lot so I sort of know you. I started out here in 1998, the names were different then, the stories and the pain, the same. I may have posted this year, I don't recall but, this is my time when I always want to return and thank the Harleys and all the members of this forum past, present, and future.<p>Although I don't have a darn thing to offer in advice or by way of the plans, I can return the huge debt owed by offering a little hope.<p>I was married at 25 and three years into the marriage my H was into a EA/PA with a co-worker. Got some really bad counseling and after a 9 month struggle he moved in with OW and the marriage was over. And, struggle is such a mild word for complete, daily, hourly, minute-by-minute hell.<p>After 6 years, a lot more counseling, some extreme drinking, a very sick sister whose children I took on for three years, I married again.<p>After 2 years, this H#2 took a deliberate step and searched for females on the internet. His first attack was Halloween nite while I was doing the candy thing and busy. His first real life meeting took place the day after Thanksgiving '98 when he claimed he had an out of town job and left for the rest of that weekend. Needless to say, I know all this because I ripped into his hard drive and found it all. <p>I was devastated of course. He returned and I did not let on that I knew. He was acting very weird, but as the days passed I realized he didn't like the woman he had hooked up with. Suddenly he was into the marriage again. He wasn't going to leave the marriage until my replacement was firmly in place. But, that only lasted a few days. Guess I didn't kiss his coward, infidel a$$ just right. He was out searching the net again and this time found a singles group and a woman who slept with him, and allowed him to live in her home(with children) after knowing him about 5 days. He came home from this incident and told me to get the he!! out of his life.<p>I found MB sometime between Halloween and TG. I read the plans and had a lot of discussion with Terri, K, and HGBrauner. They saved my life. They saved my life.<p>The path to recovery, whatever that is for each of us,isdifferent for each of us. After 12 years and two infidels I can still pull up the hurt, pain, and anger of those days -- if I want to. To me now, it serves no other purpose than a reminder of what someone else can do to your life (even if affairs are all about them). It's a reminder that I will always be okay. Someone can take my home, change future plans, and screw with my head, but through my own strength I will survive.<p>Obviously I am not the perfect wife, yet [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] But I guess I have or had some huge deficiency. I married first time right out of college and didn't have a clue. I "knew of" affairs, but they were for other people -- those kind. Second time around I thought nobody goes through this crap twice in a life -- I'm safe. Whatever I was, it has changed me forever.<p>As the time passes I am understanding that I, me, the inside of me does not tolerate fraud. I would not, and believe I could not live a lie, double-life, two faced, and then face my spouse or children. I think that is where I got the strength to run, not walk away from infidel H#2. <p>I read these posts out here. Couples who are 7 months pregnant, in the middle of building a house, just purchased a dream home, a loved one about to die of cancer, together 25 years, 14 kids, Christmas day, and the infidels troup onward. Between it all they are out there having sex, emotional involvement, joy, and loving. And then they come home to us, allow us to continue with our false lives and love. Whatever that ingredient is that allows a person to do this ... I just want it AWAY FROM ME.<p>I don't get it. I don't understand the secrecy and I don't understand how you look at your spouse and lie, lie, lie. More importantly, I don't care if I do understand. Be it a good part or bad part of me, my love for any H is conditonal. I don't believe either of my marriages could have recovered fully because of this "thing" in me.<p>My current H knows all this about me. He expresses zero concern that the marriage is over if infidelity occurs, because he doesn't think he'll ever do it. He has never experienced it in any way and is just an innocent in that regard. But to all of you who are about date, or dating or getting serious, be careful. Trust is a big thing when it's gone, but you need to put the distrust with those who deserve it. It's really easy to throw a label on all men or all women or marriage in general once you've been burned very badly. <p>Of course there's tons more to a marriage than fidelity, but it sure is huge. Not a lot works without trust.<p>I remarried 12/28/99. It was not "too soon" for me and I have never doubted that or looked back. To me it is unkind to come out here and write that I am very, very happy. My other marriages were short and this time frame is like break point. I'm human, I'm realistic, and darn it, I find myself fearful. However, big difference. He particpates in the Harley method withme. And, if it's okay to say or if I can express it, I am so "into" him. Nobody I'd rather be with, talk to, touch, etc. Two year anniversary next month and it feels like two minutes.<p>I hope you all find peace, whatever that is for you. Come on YOU can do it !!<p>THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU
Lots of love to ALL,<p>V<p>[ November 22, 2001: Message edited by: InShock ]</p>

InShock,<p>You really have to change your name!!!!<p>I thank you for the inspiring words, and the advice you gave me on my thread...don't know how to set the pain aside at will yet, but I am learning that I can surivive anything, no matter what is done to me. And that is a good thing.<p>If ever I do have another relationship, and it gets serious, I will be bringing the guy straight to MB. But that day is far, far into the future for me.<p>You are an inspiration here, even if your first two marriages did not succeed, this one is....and that show you are the winner. And it is good to hear that your H follows MB with you. Oh how we all wish for that!<p>
Love and light,<p>Jacky

Thanks for your reply Jacky.<p>I've thought about the name change, but it is as yet another reminder of the horrible pain and mind-set I experienced when the reality first hit me (and I signed up here). I remember that and how much better I feel now.<p>Also, I am still In Shock that people actually do this to each other, family, and friends. I am pretty sad in that regard I guess. If only, if only ... they came here first.<p>I was happy to see you have found counseling. It really helps even when you don't feel it at first.
Please don't miss the fact that there was six years between my marriages. I was a big mess inside for a long time. The reason I got to putting aside my pain at will was a suggestion from my therapist. <p>I would be driving and my mind was totally elsewhere, very dangerous and close calls. At home, all I did was churn these thoughts over and over and got nothing done. At work I was useless. I sat with pen and paper pretending until others realized nothing was getting done. I was this blob of pain going through the motions of life. The scheduled thought thing gave me some control but then again, it took me about a year to get to that place.<p>Just sitting here writing this, remembering, I can't believe how screwed up I was! I hope at the very least you can take your date and flash back a year and realize you may not be fabu right now, but you are not in that same place today. I've watched you grow and contribute much on this board as you've done so. <p>There is a lot more to the internal you than being married or finding another relationship. But since this board is about the marital side of ones self I always like to let people here know it is possible to have that again, even if it is way, way, off in the future.<p>Keep going, you're doing great and I enjoy reading your posts.<p>
V

Hi InShock, <p>I remember you! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] I was new_beginning back then.<p>Boy, I wish I felt as confident as you do that you did the right things - in strength. <p>David (my ex) and I divorced, and I remarried within 8 months. I really feel that we moved too quickly, and have felt tremendous guilt for that and some other related choices. How do you do it?<p>I just began with a new counselor last night, and I have to say that this is something we will be addressing in therapy.<p>I applaud you for your choices, and send warm wishes for a happy, strong, healthy marriage this time around!<p>[ November 23, 2001: Message edited by: Nyneve ]</p>

InShock,<p>Thank you for pointing out how far I have come on this journey. Sometimes day to day events can make it seem like it will never get any better, but when you suggested I look back and think about myself a year ago, it really hit home.<p>Like everyone else who has just found out about the A, I was in a completely devastated daze. I honestly don't know how I got through each day, each hour, each minute, each second. I walked the earth like a ghost, and no-one knew why. I think many people thought I had suddenly gone crazy, or there was another event going on (H's new job, far away from friends) that they may have attributed my behaviours to.<p>There are some moments which will never be erased from my mind, and some things that to this day hurt like hell to recall. But actually living these events was far, far worse than allowing myself to feel the hurt today.<p>I had completely lost myself. It was a feeling I am sure many here know. I honestly believe it put me into a semi-breakdown state. H just didn't understand during our 6 month recovery time that the pain was going to take some time to go away, and never completely.<p>So I had lurked at MB from late November 2000, but I never actually posted until July 2001, when he left again. I regret this, maybe I could have had more advice...<p>Yes I have come far. I think it has made me stronger, but I still have a way to go. I will always be grateful for MB, and the wonderful people here who helped me through some of my blackest days.<p>I am glad I will see this counsellor, too. She was recommended by a good friend, and she sounds great on the phone. But I am afraid to open some of those cans of worms again. I feel, illogically, that if I don't think about it I will be happier. Guess I have a way to go.<p>Anyway, rambling, so I will go. I really only wanted to agree with you that I have moved forward and to thank you for acknowledging that.<p>Love and light,<p>Jacky

Oh yes, NB, I remember when you got here. It was you and WhoDat that allowed me the shred of kindness that even a WS deserves. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I know you have these feelings, some I understand, others I don't. Like is there something wrong in your current marriage? What do you feel guilty about, the kids? The distance you moved? Do you have some nagging thought that you and David could have made it?<p>NB, I did post to David. It was really hard because what he wrote confused me. I just didn't get what he was saying. It looked like whenever he wanted your attention he got it by having an affair and I told him that, maybe in not a nice way.<p>Out of the many posts I've read over the years, there was one you wrote that had me in tears while applauding your new life and strength. What you wrote bothers me still because it was so, so disturbing and something I experienced as well. The post was about writng on a wall. Just that particular incident gave me the strength to stop the insanity. I think that wall writing screams that we were dealing with seriously mentally ill spouses. I close my eyes and see what was written to me and I KNOW not being with him any longer is right, and where I am now is right.<p>The affair and infidelity doesn't even matter when you understand just how abusive that was. Ohhh, it makes me shake just to write this.<p>I also have such a super [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] advantage here as I was married twice before this. I don't know how old you are, but I am over forty and I get a lot of strength in the very real knowledge that life is short. When my second marriage ended and I looked back at the time I spent recovering from the first marriage ending, I was horrified to think I was going to live that again. I pulled my stuff together fast because the thought of being 50 and finally feeling good again scared the poop out of me. <p>This web site, and rightfully so, promotes long periods for healing. But, that is not what we all need or even what is best for us. Don't let the prevailing wisdom here allow you to doubt yourself. I too thought I had to wait some period of time to be "right" with the world in my choice to marry yet again. I waited six years the first time right? <p>I decided that I am NOT so screwed up. I am not so awful. I will not allow someone to take years from me, so I can figure out all the many things I did wrong. NB, you are a SURVIVOR of abuse, not it's victim, that is why you are where you are. I don't think I know who you married from here but I'll bet he's like my H. They love us through our self doubt, they gently remind us of our value, and they keep on doing it until we feel it and know it.<p>I almost lost my current H because it wasn't the right time. I turned away from his kindness and love because I was still hurting. My therapist gave me the kick in the butt I needed to open my crying eyes to what was in front of my face!<p>Our spouses left us in EVERY way. We are free to love. No secrets, no lies, no fantasy world, no need to demonize, or justify. We are not infidels worming our way out of a marriage and trying to make it all friendly and okay. Love him NB, love him with all you've got and scream it to the world.<p>Keep talking NB. I have a feeling you'll be very okay very soon. <p>
Love From,
V

Jacky,<p>As I will probably return to the land of lurkdom until next year, always know there is someone in California, USA cheering you on and reading your thoughts. I care very much.<p>I had that same "good" feeling with my therapist. My last session I cried and hugged and kissed that woman. Just like with MB I send her a card of thanks each year.<p>I look forward to your healing Jacky.<p>Much Love to YOU and your Children,<p>V

Hi again InShock,<p>Oh, first let me say that there is NOTHING wrong with my current marriage. This man... my God... he is... LIGHT in the darkness... and ... he wouldn't harm a hair on my head. <p>Yes, my guilt is over leaving my children, although as the therapist said last night (not a direct quote, but pretty darned close), "So, you got therapy with your ex-H, then got therapy as you went through the divorce, then went to therapy with your children as you made the decision to move here, and they all wish you well and are, for the most part adults... now... why are you feeling guilty?"<p>So yes, although the move itself was difficult (especially the immigration, which has been HELL) and lonely, I do not regret getting out of Dodge. I just very much miss my kids - adults or not. Well, and my parents and my grandmother... you know... my family.<p>OH MY, did I chuckle when you mentioned David's writing -- he TALKED that way, ya know? My current H is in the newspaper business, and communicates for a living -- he can really write, and talk, and ... it's GREAT talking to him. I love that!! <p>And, oh gosh, the writing on the wall... one of those thing I filed in the "forget it or it will eat you alive" box in the recesses of my mind... I still can't believe he did that to me - BUT HE DID. It DID happen, and it was not an unusual happening... but I wanted to believe it was. <p>Just last night I was talking to my new counselor, and giving a background, you know, and I blurted out how on the day I told David about the affair, he was looming over me on the kitchen floor where I layed in the fetal position... and he kicked at me... not a full-on kick, I was quick to say... to protect him...why, oh why I am still trying to protect him? Or is it that I'm protecting myself? I wonder. It's embarrassing that I lived through that and never told anyone... just like the hair pulling, the slapping... I never felt it was abuse. The therapist looked so sad... and she quietly said, Yes, it is abuse. Is that the way it is? Even still I am normalizing it. Sheesh. <shaking head><p>I'm 42, and feel like I should be beyond the games I play in my psyche. But clearly, I have some work to do. I want to get to the point where I feel good, and safe and healthy, in my own skin, you know?<p>I am so glad you came and posted. It's always good to hear from someone I've *known* all along, and to see such success!!<p>God Bless.

Hi, Inshock<p>It's hard to believe it has been 3 years. I worried when you got remarried so quickly, but I'm glad you are happy.<p>My H & I are doing well--gosh, I never would have thought that this time 3 years ago! I always appreciated your sense of humor in the midst of your pain.<p>Good luck to you--you are right, the MB principles will give your present marriage a good foundation for success.

InShock,
I remember you too, I really didn't post much even when I found MB.
I hope for the day that I don't label all relationships based on my marriage experience. I just can't seem to let go of it.
I applaud your strength and attitiude and wish you the best of luck....
Michael

Hiya V!<p>I remember ya too! So, So glad things are going your way!!!! You SO deserve some happiness.<p>AND, I LOVE it when "old-timers" check in!!!<p>Take Care....and Happy Holidays to you and yours!<p>Xman