Sounds like a stupid question, really. I suppose we should ALWAYS care if we LB.<p>But tonight, Ithe kids got a call from H, and then he asked to speak to me. UGH! I have TOLD him I don't want to talk to him.<p>He said, in Mr Deadpan voice, Hi how are you....I could not help it, I replies in exactly the same tone.....boring, kinda monotone. Too BAD, I thought! That is how he sounds, see if he likes it. Sheesh!<p>Then we talked about an issue with one of the kids, and it was necessary to communicate about it, but not on the phone, which was a boundary I set...he can easily email.<p>So then he is talking about Christmas, and how we should buy the kids a big present THIS year. I said "Why? So you can play Disney Dad?" Boy, was I on a roll! [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>He then says he can't give me an exact date when he will be home for the kids over their break. P****d me off that he can't even be that organised, but I suspect the reason, is that OW is coming too (from SA for a little holiday, and it has to coincide with OW's holidays or something). <p>The dates he has given will run into school time [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] . <p>So then I tell him that when he is going to pick them up, I will drop them off at his sister's house, he will not see me. He says he doesn't mind seeing me, but he supposes i don't want to see him. I say, No, not until it is over with you and her. Silence...um er....I got fed up, and I hung up.<p>Should I even CARE?

Post posted to wrong thread - I don't know how that happened!<p>[ November 30, 2001: Message edited by: Nellie1 ]</p>

Hey Nina too - Actually, I think you did ok.<p>Why? To me, your response was in concert with the situation. <p>This man has destroyed your family.<p>To behave or suggest otherwise is not dealing with the truth.<p>Now to throw the accusations and venom that you might feel is appropriate ( and actually I would agree) would cause problems.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>The crunch came for me one night when she called my H a f****** A****** <hr></blockquote><p>You didn't go there...<p>But to act as if nothing is wrong is just as inappropriate. So, you LB. <p>Not too bad and not too much.<p>It's ok.<p>Dan<p>Um, maybe you could hire yourself out to deal w WS's? Set 'em straight for a small fee? [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>BTW, I think it hurts because you do care...<p>[ November 30, 2001: Message edited by: Family Man ]</p>

Thanks Family Man,<p>Actually there is more to this, but I don't want to share it...suffice it to say that after the call, I discovered that when in SA with OW and kids together, he REALLY hurt the kids.<p>No, I do not think I have love left for a man who would do the things he has done to his children.

Well I can't say anything about LBing during Plan B because I have been on a roll myself for the past 2 days. As you may know from reading my threads, our now 6 yr old son has been acting up at school. He got notes regarding not listening 3 days this week. On Thursday morning when H came to take him to school he said, I hope he will be good at school today. He promised me he would be good yesterday. I quickly, without thinking, said, well his like all (family name) men, he doesn't keep his promises.<p>As you know H was ordered by judge to stop all overnights with OW when kids are visiting. I asked him today what arrangements he had made for thier visit this weekend and he says he took care of it. I pressed for details because I have the right to know where my children are sleeping. He said the OW is going to sleep at her mom's (NEXTDOOR). Yeah right. I don't think that is going to fly. Would you leave your own house because the guy you were renting a room to was having his kids for the weekend? <p>On top of it all, school called and son was sick, doctor diagnosed strep throat and he is not supposed to be around other kids this weekend. OW has a 6 year old too. This should be interesting. I probably shouldn't let son go with Dad but he actually acts like he feels fine. He is running around right now in my office bothering my co-workers. I had to stop by office and pick up some stuff.<p>I also LB'd this morning when he told me the OW staying at her mom's plan. I was so furious because he was there in my house. I told him that I had finally figured out how he fell out of love with me because the same anger and resentment he felt towards me, I was feeling towards him. I of course said I didn't really like feeling this way and I was scared I might say something I regreted so it would be better if he just left me alone. When it's over, it's over. <p>He looked very stressed out. Poor baby......<p>PP

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I probably shouldn't let son go with Dad but he actually acts like he feels fine. <hr></blockquote><p>If its the Dad's legal time, then you need to hand over the parental responsibility to the dad, you should not be looking for excuses to interfere with the agreement.<p>If the dad is not following the court orders, then let him know you have grounds for modification, and will bring him up for contempt.<p>PS, do not take this personally, it is not aimed at you, but i particularly dislike mom's who think that they have special reasons or excuses to not abide by the agreement. Dads may not be the same type of parent, they are not, they have different roles in the parenting process, and the kids need to have that time. If there is not an agreement, or temporary orders, then disregard what i have to say, but the next step should be to get some.<p>WIFTTy

WIFFTy<p>I don't take offense easily but perhaps I didn't use the right words when I wrote that. I never have any intention of finding an excuse for kids not to see their Dad. I had a pretty nice weekend planned myself but unlike my H, my kids needs come first.<p>The doctor said that son should not be around other children until Sunday. The OW that my H lives with has a 6 yr old too. I don't have a problem with his Dad taking care of him this weekend but most likely our 10 yr old daughter will have this too. My throat is already scratchy.<p>I didn't mean to come across as trying to get in the way of visitation. However, the judge was quite clear in the ruling. So I have to live with the fact that OW will be in the house next door to my H and kids. I just don't beleive it. I guess it doesn't matter but it ticks me off that he never has to really abide by rules because I always let him take the easy way out.<p>Enough said. I'm feeling yucky......<p>PP

Ok,<p>Well Lynn, I happen to agree with you about the OW thing, and it IS a court order, so if he doesn't abide by it, he forfeits his right to have the children. <p>I have great concerns about H bringing OW here (it's only a guess, anyway).....but what the hell can I do about it...mind you, there is no agreement in writing, so I guess I do not HAVE to hand them over.<p>
I think the time has come for me to let him know exactly what I think of him destroying our family.<p>I am sssooooooooooooo pissed off.<p>I know, I know, you will all say, no, don't do it....but I have lost the battle anyway, nothing has changed, ecxcept that I know I don't love him now.

Jacky,<p>It is almost scary how our coping cycles, ie. denial, anger, depression, hopelessness, peace, strength, pride, and now loss of love and desire for our H's, is so similar. You always seem to be just where I am too.<p>I was thinking today when H picked up kids for the weekend and he couldn't even tell the truth about whether he put money in the bank today. He really ticks me off and I haven't been hiding that too much lately. I had to fork out $110 bucks for the Office Visit today for son so I gave him the prescription to take to get filled for his antibotic. You would have thought that I gave him a major task such as building a garage or something. I even had to call ahead to pharmacy to see if they would accept his insurance. He is just driving me nuts now. I think it will be best if I stop his morning visits at least to every other week. I don't want the kids to see this tension between us and I haven't been able to engage my brain before my mouth for quite sometime now. I have to remember that we still have to be civil because of the kids and we still have to come to a final divorce agreement. <p>I think like most moods, this one will pass but I am so angry with him now, I don't feel love for him anymore either. I see someone who is not attactive due to his deceitful attitude and actions. I would never even like someone who treats people like he does, so why should I continue to love him.<p>I sometimes wish I could be thousands of miles away from him. I know he is the kids father and I know he loves them. He just doesn't see anything wrong with having them fall right into a role of "new family" with the OW. <p>I have never wanted to deny him from seeing them but I'm not sure how much more of this I can stand. He says OW is sleeping at the uncle;s but he lies so much now, who knows.<p>Frustration, frustration !!!!!!!!!!!<p>PP

Jacky,<p>You are too much of a lady for this man. <p>When stbx and I first separated, I sent him that letter telling him exactly how I felt. LB's all over the place. I told him about the things he did to me and how it was affecting me. The letter was definitely a "me" letter. Did it make a difference in how he felt or help him to see the light? No Did it help me? Yes. I needed him to know my true feelings at the time.<p>I think it helped me put closure on everything. I think at some point we all need to send one LB, slap in the face letter, and then move on. Change our attitude and do the best we can to work as separated/divorced parents for the children's sake.<p>
Take care,<p>ANNA<p>[ November 30, 2001: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]</p>

Hi Nina, I am sorry you are so mad and angry, but I know the feeling, it is really hard when someone you have loved so much is treating you like crap. My H is treating me a little better these days maybe because I am plan aing to the max, as much as I can... it may not be the best plan a, but I am really working on being nice and kind. <p>I do not like how I am being treated at all, H seems to just not want to hear at all how cruel he is to me.. but tears well up in his eyes as he sees my life hardened and difficult as single mom.. .maybe there is hope for this one.. but the OW left.. I attacked her.. I do not know if you read this about me earlier.. but that was a major lb and very hard to get through, long story.. completely unintended by me.. but it happened, temporary insanity...<p>anyway... just wanted to let you know the plan aing was making my H nicer to me.. but I definitely know the LB route.. I did a lot of it... and not once did it help... except that he got meaner and meaner back.. except when OW broke it off--- now that may have been worth it.<p>??????<p>Good luck , my prayers are with you.. I am praying for all the members on this board and the pain we are facing. <p>Thanks, Lisa [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img]

Nina, I wanted to mention, I found it very hard not to LB while H was seeing OW.... VERY VERY HARD>!!! In fact I majorly LB'd.. i could of set the record... I have such a sense of releif that OW is gone.. though he may meet another or get her back in his new AGGHHHH--- "Single" lifestyle.. speaking of I MAY GO OUT TONIGHT>>>!!! WOOPIE!! HE has kids, I have done gone out flirting a single night sense this has happened and it may be time!!<p>GOOD LUCK and peace to you... ! I know how hard it is... <p>Take care tonight.<p>lisa [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

I don't know that you LB here jacky, and if you did so what, you have a right to your feelings and a right to vent to him. I have never had that chance yet except for a few letters I had to write and they were LB letters. EXW called here one day and informed me that I have hurt her enough and she wasn't letting me hurt her anymore. I said screw you and hung up. Sometimes I think we need to come to a point where we just tell it like it is. I think for me I get more angry with myself for letting her get the best of me. You do what you feel right jacky you deserve better than what he is treating you.

PP, i couldn't respond earlier because I had too many internet demanding applications open, but<p>i agree with your sentiment, and i understand irresponsible X's. One of my points was that it is better not to be the enforcer, but to leave the enforcement of the orders to the lawyers and the court. I know it sounds unfair, but that was my point.<p>in other words, you will get far more benefit from the court telling him and then punishing him, that you will by doing the act himself. I know that finding out what went on is also not easy, and a court will not believe what a kid has to say, <p>but also, do not hold his hand. you are not allowing him to grow up and learn through his mistakes. He has to learn parenting responsibility on his own, without you helping him out.<p>The intentions behind words are not always clear, but i just wanted to throw in some legal crap. If you believe that he is cheating on his orders, take notes and consult with your lawyer on how to handle the situation to the max benefit for you.<p>It also cuts down on the potential arguments in front of the kids, and that is also a good idea.<p>yes, there are alot of whacko spouses out there, and whomever has a FIL who is a lawyer and has been married 4 times, should not be allowed to marry anyone!<p>take care,
you are doing fine in a tough situation.<p>WIFTTy

From Lynn:<p>It is almost scary how our coping cycles, ie. denial, anger, depression, hopelessness, peace, strength, pride, and now loss of love and desire for our H's, is so similar. You always seem to be just where I am too.<p>Yep, I had noticed that too....it is the standard process I guess [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] .<p>So now it is about 24 hours since I posted this thread, and I am still struggling in my anger. I still want to write that flaming horrible letter to H, then follow it up with one to OW who porbably has NO idea that she is 'special girl' number 6. Of course he would deny it...he has been doing that to me for around 15 years by my estimate. But my anger comes from his actions towards his kids. He really betrayed them too.<p>Thanks for the support and hugs everyone, I guess I will get over this one too.<p>Love and light,<p>Jacky

Hi Jacky , Id just like to say that you seem much more stronger and more in control of the situation that your in than you were the last time I was here +- 2 months ago.<p>I Know it hurts when your H actions justify your thoughts that he puts himself and OW before his own kids and one day he will realise his mistakes, but unfotunitly it will be too late , the damage he has done to his kids will be irreversible. <p>This is what has happened with my eldest boy. Through all my wife’s selfishness she has lost his love. My son does not want to stay with her no longer and fights continually with her and MINLAW and now it looks as if we have to split the kids up, He will come stay with me and my younger two with Her.And all of this was brought on by my W selfishness.<p>Look after yourself and your Kids<p>God bless

Hi NWTCO!<p>While since you are in the same country as H, maybe you can go and kick his BUTT for me!!!<p>Yes, so sad about the kids...my son said some pretty disturbing things about what he would like happen to OW....well so would I, but my son is 8 years old!<p>It is the way of the WS to be so in the fog that they cannot see the pain they cause anyone, even their own children. You know what, you can hurt me, but NEVER hurt my kids, you know?<p>How are things with you, apart from the kids?<p>Love and light,<p>Jacky

Jacky,<p>My Life has changed for the good. I ve managed to restart my Life and Iam a much happier person. Forgiven my wife for what she did to me , but still not for what she is doing to my kids. I think the last time I posted she was on her third man a Lawyer which since has ended. She is now living with an older man aged 42 , which I have met and seems to be level headed person with plenty of money ( What else would I expect from my M ) has three aircraft and a helicopter. I also cannot begrudge him as he was not the cause of our split-up and my youngest two boys are quiet found of him. He has also been divorced and has two kids aged 17 and 15.<p>It still does hurt to know that my kids are living with someone other that their father, but theirs nothing I can do to change this, only time will tell once my kids are at the age to make the decision of who they want to stay with.<p>I almost forgot why the change in me.
I was coming home on the N1 NORTH and I had a blow out , My car rolled across the highway and over the barrier into the incoming traffic , luckily no oher vehicle was involved. The paramedics said that they could not believe that I survived the accident , there was not even a scratch on me. The thing is I do not remember even getting out of the car, but when I came around I was standing infront of my car which was reduced in height to aprox 1 meter and I just burst into tears and repeatedly said what about my kids. I thought I was dead and I was about to see my body dead in the car.<p>This to me was a sign from god saying that he is giving me a second chance in life and that even though my wife has my children they will always be the most important people in my life and me Theirs.<p>Jacky I feel that the most important thing is that Im ALIVE and Ill always be there for my kids and they will be there for me.

WWWWWWWWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWW!!!!!<p>What a story, NWTCO!!!!!<p>Imagine, standing there thinking you were already dead! Oh my!!!!!!!<p>So it would certainly put a new perspective on things for you. Your wife is going through her quota pretty fast......the damage to the children is what I would be most concerned about, too. But you do sound stronger in yourself, too.<p>For the record, I HATE the N1 North. I don't know why, but I just always felt so uncomfortable driving on it. I am glad you are still here to tell the tale!<p>Love and light and hugs coming your way,<p>Jacky