There are a great many on this forumn who have accused me of being the villian in the problems with my marriage. . . Have I done things wrong. . . absoultely. Who among us hasn't.<p>Am I the only one at fault. . . No I am not.<p>I thought I woud begin this post by pasting excerpts from several Emails from my W. . . <p>Here goes. . . By the way, these are direct quotes. . . I have not edited the information at all.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I feel that at the rate things are going we are eventually going to end up in divorce. I feel that since it is going in that direction anyway, we shouldn’t have to put each other through any more misery. I feel that you think everything that has gone wrong in our marriage in the last 5 years is all my fault.<hr></blockquote> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I feel that you deserve to have a wife who isn’t insecure or jealous of your friends. You deserve to have a wife that you have more in common with and that you love with all your heart. Someone who isn’t going to do things just to keep you around or push you towards someone else.<hr></blockquote> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I’ll never be able to fix the things I’ve done before. I can’t fix the things I have done in the past. All I can do is try to learn from my past mistakes and move on.<hr></blockquote> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I just think that I’m not the wife you need and that we should just move on with our lives as separate people.<hr></blockquote> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I think it would just be better right now if we stayed apart. <p>We can figure out what to do with Chrissy as far as both of us getting to see her. Don't know just off hand what that arrangement should be or is going to be but it can be arranged. I also think that I need to stay down here. If I'm up there I don't really have the family support like you do. I need my family's support right now. I'm really scared and I don't know what my future holds.<hr></blockquote> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>You are more than welcome to come down here to talk about Chrissy this weekend. I just can't get a car to be able to drive up there.<hr></blockquote> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>The distance we have now is managable to work with to give her a stable environment.<hr></blockquote> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Just so you know, I'm seriously thinking about staying here for at least six months to really decide what I need to do to fix me. To make myself a better person and a better mother for Chrissy. I feel it is something I need to do.<p>I also believe that either way we do things, Chrissy will still have a stable home and still know that she is love by both of us. That is just how I feel right now.<hr></blockquote> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>You are more than welcome to come down here and we can talk this weekend since I can't get a car to drive up there. You can also call tonight and we can discuss it then as well.<p>Maybe I am the awful parent for taking Chrissy away from her father. I know you didn't say that but that is sure how you are making me feel. Would you like me to just bring her back to you and leave her life forever?<hr></blockquote> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>After doing a lot of thinking and re-reading some of your old emails I have come to the conclusion that you coming down here to talk about what is going on won't be the best thing.<hr></blockquote> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Why should I have to leave my family support to have Chrissy in a stable home?<hr></blockquote><p>I called after recieving the last Email. I was told that since we are getting divorced it didn't matter anyway.<p>As far as seeing my daughter is concerned. . .She told me that I am not allowed to see her unless it is in her mothers house with her family there. During this conversation she told me that she was playing a game with her sister, and that this was more important than trying to talk about our daughter. . . .Actually she didn't use those exact words. She put our daughter on the phone, and then refused to come back to the phone telling our daughter to say that she was playing a game with her sister and that the game was too important to stop.<p>My daughter has cried each time we have talked lately saying that she misses her aunt and cousins, her grand-parents, her school, her teacher and me. When she found out that I was not going to be coming to see her she was heart broken to the point of having her mother take the phone from her. . . within two minutes my W hung up on me.<p>Aparently my MIL has rented an apartment for my W. My wife said that she and my daugther were moving on Monday (tomorrow). I do not know where they are moving to, and my W told me that she has no intention of telling me where they are moving to.<p>I was bashed pretty darn hard the last time I posted on these forumns, and told that I should be doing exactly what my W wants in order to repair my marriage. . . .My W has no desire to repair this marriage. She has no desire to attempt to work out an amicable solution for our daughter. Her only goal, and this is something she said to me on the phone, is to punish me. The fact that our daughter is being punished and hurt by all of this does not matter at all.<p>My W and I both have made a lot of mistakes in our marriage. While I have not been willing /able to talk about my frustration level in the past few months, I have never left. I have never made false accusations, I have never subjected our daugther to the things she is going through. . . My W has done all of these things, and is continuing to do so.<p>My W wants the marriage to be over. . . That's OK. I can live with that. What I can't deal with is having my daughter taken from me, and forbidden to see me, all because my W would rather run to her family than make any attempt at fixing, or ending our marriage without causing any unnecesary pain.<p>I will wait to see the responses to this post. I may or may not respond further depending on the abuse that is handed out this time around.

Empty shell, <p>You need to get some legal advice regarding visitations with your daughter, as I do not think your wife can keep her from you, nor restrict your access to what she sees fit.<p>Go see a lawyer, to protect your relationship with her. Also, if you do not do this, in later times, it may be seen as disinterest by the courts, and you may end up with fewer access times as a result.<p>Please do this as soon as possible......she has as yet no real RIGHT to do what she is doing.<p>Love and light,<p>Jacky

ES,<p>I know you are hurting. I am so sorry. I see you've only been married 5 years. I look back to my 5th year and recall some things I would like to tell you.<p>One, I may be wrong, but back then I think my stbx may have had the same thoughts as you towards making sure I never told him what to do. He had an attitude of, "I am an adult, don't tell me what I can and can't do." He was so afraid of being control or being called a "whimp" (he would use a different word then whimp but we won't go there [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] ) Anyway, the problem is his actions hurt me deeply. Relationships are so much about give and take. <p>Here's one example. He thought he could stay out all night long or whatever time he wanted to. He didn't want to answer to anyone. He would tell me to stop trying to control him. He would also say he's an adult not a child. <p>He did this for many years. I would never know when he was coming home, if at all. Then I decided I was talking to the wall. I was getting know where. I tried a different approach. I stayed out all night long too. Boy was he mad. He sounded just like me. "Where were you? I can't believe you did this. I didn't know if I should call the cops or if you were dead somewhere. How could you be so insensitive?" I said, "I'm an adult. You don't have to answer to anyone, neither do I." He then "got it".<p>He started calling if he was going to be late. He stopped staying out all night too. Because I pointed out to him, if he stays out all night, then I'll do the same. <p>This happened a lot through the years. There were times when I could reason until I was blue in the face it would do no good. It was only examples that did the trick though.<p>I am sure you may be wondering. Where is she going with all this. Well, you are having an emotional affair with a woman. I know you don't want to hear those words but it's true. You may say if your wife had the same relationship with a man, it wouldn't matter you wouldn't be bothered by this. As my husband often told me he wouldn't care if I stayed out all night long, this is until I actually did it. If you love her, which I think you do, then you would care deeply she was having this relationship with someone else. She loves you this is why she too cares.<p>Your taking away time from your relationship with your wife and your child for this woman. You are risking your entire marriage for this "friendship". You are putting them second. I think you need to look hard at this. You say you don't want to do what she tells you to. I realize it's hard because first we are children and we have to obey are parents, then once you become an adult we see this "I'm free" stage, then we become married and all of a sudden it's back to answering to someone for the things we do. Negotiating in marriage is so tough. Respecting your partners feelings is tough. <p>If you married this "friend". You had better bet she would not accept you having this friendship that you now have with her with any other woman. So why not work on the marriage you have with your wife, the mother of your child. Instead of getting divorced, going into a new relationship, just to find the problems are still there.<p>As for your wife's emails. When she says perhaps you'd be better off with someone who isn't jealous of your friendships. I see her crying out for you to tell her this, "No, I wouldn't be better off. You are number 1 in my life. You mean so much more to me. I want you and only you. I will end this friendship with this other woman and we can try again."<p>Well, good luck and again I am sorry for your pain. I don't quite think you found the place where you belong yet. Although, please post here anytime. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Take care,<p>ANNA

Empty Shell,<p>I agree with Nina - get some legal advice, and get it quick.<p>So Very Confused<p>[ December 04, 2001: Message edited by: So Very Confused ]</p>

ES,<p>I agree with everyone else. Get a lawyer or go to the state or county to get assistance as necessary. She doesn't get the control of your daugher just because she is unhappy with you.<p>Anna, I don't think it is clear that ES is having an EA. And if he is, isn't his W who should be doing some work rather than running??? There story is long and complicated. Complicated by the major issues that ES's W has with her mother, his W's affairs so forth.<p>It is very difficult to tell what is up here, but one thing is certain uprooting a child not once but several times, taking her from school in the middle of a term etc. is not good for the child.<p>I don't know for sure what his W feels about him, but it is clear the D's well being is not being considered here. And that in my mind is step one in the whole process.<p>In any event, ES, get some legal counsel and see if things can be put on a more equitable level with regards to your daughter.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

Nina too -- Thank You for you concerns. I have talked with several different lawyers in the past month or so. None are willing to assist me without a considerable retainer fee, and none are willing to work with me to be able to make payments to pay the retainer.<p>As far as my showing a lack of interest in seeing my daughter . . . That is not at all the case. I have have tried calling my daughter every few days, and have sent her an Email at least once a day.<p>I refuse to walk into a loaded gun in order to be able to try and see my daughter. I have been threatened with this in the past, and I won't subject myself, or my daughter to that. . . But I am making ever effort that I can to keep in contact with my daughter. To let her know how much I love her and how much I miss her.<p>Anna2000 -- Actually we have been married for a little over nine (9) years. My W left me the first time almost five (5) years ago, has had one physical affair that I know of, and multiple internet/phone affairs (At one point I had the information on at least 15 different men that she was involved with in one way or another.)<p>I have never stayed out all night, I have never done anything in my marriage to intentionally cause harm. In the past few months I have gone through a period, where I was wondering if being married was the right thing. I withdrew into myself in order to try and evaluate myself and what I wanted. . . during this period I came home every day at the normal time. I left for work at the normal time. Except for a series of work related trips, I maintained as normal a home life as possible. I was trying to make decisions and sort things out, without resorting to running away, stealing my daughter or causing unnecessary pain.<p>So Very Confused -- I will be sending you an Email.<p>Just Learning -- Thank you very much for your comments. Ever since my W walked the second time, about a month ago, I have done everything in my power to try and make things as normal and comfortable for my daughter. I allowed my W to come back home, in order to ensure that my daughter got the love and comfort she needed. My W made absolutely no attempt to try and communicate (in any way) about why she had left. After a couple of weeks, I tried to start a conversation (this was the day before Thanksgiving) My W did not like the way I started this conversation or the content of the conversation. Two days later, she left again. <p>The marriage was on VERY shaky ground after I allowed her to come back. (I did not ask or tell her to leave, and I was not going to beg her to come back. She asked to come back, I told her that was fine, but that it was not going to make things better all by itself.<p>This latest abandonment in and of itself put the marriage into a very critical situation. . .If it were a person, they would have been flown by helicopter to the closest hospital and placed in ICU.<p>As I said earlier, if the marriage is over. . . so be it. Restoring it would require work on both parts, work which my W is not willing to do. The only issue therefore is my daughter. She does not deserve to be subjected to what she is currently going through. I have tried several different times to get my W to work with me for the benefit of our daughter. . . again, she is not interested in that, only in seeing how badly she can punish me.

JL,<p>I agree with you regarding the daughter. I do think he needs to seek legal advice. If he doesn't have money the state often has legal aid.<p>Regarding the EA. Can you tell me why it isn't clear he's not having an EA? I may be be wrong but I define an emotional affair as "If another relationship interfere's with one's marriage, it's an emotional affair." He speaks to this lady often, calls her, they speak on the computer. From what I've been reading this is an every day occurrence, but perhaps I missed a lot of explanation, since he deleted his post. <p>Also, JL, I have so much respect for you and your advice. However, on this one I humbly disagree when are you putting the responsibility back on his wife. If I were addressing his wife I may address the subject differently, but since he's the poster, I'm addressing him and his responsibilities.<p>I'm sure your right about their story is very complicated, I have heard this. Although I know very little about it. I had a choice to research the whole story or just what is going on now. I may be wrong but I decided if I researched the whole torid story, my views may be clouded by all that has gone on in their life in the past. I felt I may have a more unbiast opinion if I only know she's left and now their marriage is in deep trouble. I looked at the situation as, if this were a poster who came on MB without his wife posting, how would we respond. <p>When I read some of the advice he was getting I couldn't help but think about relatives. Relatives know the couple so well their judgements are sometimes clouded by knowing two personalities or knowing the couples too well. His being here for so long, I wondered if this weren't a little true. Alot of the people on MB are similar now to relatives of his and there views may be a little clouded and not as objective.<p>One last thing also, if he is having an EA, you said "She shouldn't run away." I respectively say "Who are we to judge how much pain or hurt his wife can endure on this to say she needs to stay and put up with it." There is a choice a BS has, to stay if there's an affair or to leave. I respect both decisions always. If he's having this EA this is his choice to end it and work on his marriage. <p>The main point is, since he's the poster, I'm looking at his responsibility, not hers.<p>Take care,<p>ANNA

ES,<p>Our post crossed. I didn't say you go out all night or anything. I just used this as example. The point I tried to make was, it's often about courtesy instead of how you put it, "Doing as she says."<p>Regarding the abandonment 5 years ago. It seems like you never forgave her. I don't know if she showed remorse or anything about that. I know she needs to if she didn't. If she did, and you still harbor a lot of resentment then I think you should know you should have let it go. To me I look at it as. You took her back. The past is the past, now it seems as though you have other problems.<p>You say both needs to work on the marriage. As long as there are others involved, namely this woman you are talking to a lot, then you are not doing everything in your power to work on the marriage. MB is about what we can do as individuals, not looking to your wife to make changes but looking to yourself.<p>Please let me know if I am wrong about this other woman you have a relationship with.<p>Take care,<p>ANNA

Hi ES - I haven't been around much lately, but I did see this. I am truly sorry how things are working out. I thought a better end was in store for you and hopeful...You were both an inspiration to me long ago when I was going thru this turmoil.<p>I agree with all the above. At this point you need legal advice. You know that it doesn't necessarily mean the end. You are so right, you both contributed to where your marriage is, but hopeful really needs some significant help. Her depressions are really getting severe again and causing her to act before she thinks, then to rationalize her actions.<p>Regardless of what other repliers have told you, you are a good man and worked hard to save your marriage. You weren't perfect, but which of us is???<p>My thoughts are with you....<p>--DeWayne--<p>
Anna -Just got done reading TS's post. Even though I agreed with a lot of what you wrote, your presentation needs significant work if you want others to listen. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I see you've only been married 5 years<hr></blockquote>
If you are going to be judgmental, please first go to the "read-only" forum and do some research on ES or any of the other oldtimers before making assumptions. The record is there and therefore, no excuse is really acceptable.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Heartpain:
<strong><p>
[b]Anna -Just got done reading TS's post. Even though I agreed with a lot of what you wrote, your presentation needs significant work if you want others to listen.
If you are going to be judgmental, please first go to the "read-only" forum and do some research on ES or any of the other oldtimers before making assumptions. The record is there and therefore, no excuse is really acceptable.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>HP,<p>Thanks, for the advice, I do try to research posts. Although sometimes I realize if I researched every gorey detail, first I may not have a life outside MB. Second, I may read something totally unrelated or related that would make my opinion more bias to the situation at hand. Sometimes I go back research and other times I prefer to get the story fresh. <p>I made a choice to not look at old post on this one. I stated this reason. I think there's enough MBer's out there that no so much about his/her story I felt he needed a mix of people. Sometimes fresh advice from someone who just met you is just as good as those who know you well. If I looked back it would change that relationship.<p>This was my choice. If a poster wants to look at my errors, such as not knowing whether he was married 5 or 9 years and then decides not to listen to the rest of what I have to say, then that's his choice. I can't make a person listen to me. However, I do think ES put my errors aside and did listen. <p>Although I do also hear what you are saying, there are times I skim a story, thinking this poster has no clue what is going on. I respond quickly to him to have the person, to later go back and read to find out I missed the whole point he was making by skimming. However, this was my error more than the posters for skimming and not taking every post more seriously.<p>Anyway, thanks for the advice. I stand by my decision on this one. I won't go back and research. Although I'm a woman and reserve the right to change my mind at any time. [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] <p>
Take care,<p>ANNA<p>P.S.<p>Please PLEASE don't take this the wrong way, but it seems like ES came here to this forum and deleted all the old post on the old forum. It looks like he was trying to make some kind of fresh start with new people. Yet, now, alot of GQII are following him here. I worry about being taken totally wrong here, but don't you think a fresh view of things from people on D/D, even if just for a little while, might be a good thing...<p>Also, ES, could have said, "Read my story, it's on MB, but he didn't he said here's emails to read. I go back and see he's deleted post he wrote. I figured he wanted a clean start on MB D/D. I tried to respect that, as much as I could. However, I did have some knowledge of the situation and responded to what I did know.<p>[ December 03, 2001: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]<p>[ December 03, 2001: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]</p>

Anna2000 -- <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Regarding the abandonment 5 years ago. It seems like you never forgave her. I don't know if she showed remorse or anything about that. I know she needs to if she didn't. If she did, and you still harbor a lot of resentment then I think you should know you should have let it go. To me I look at it as. You took her back. The past is the past, now it seems as though you have other problems.<hr></blockquote>Actually, it took quite a while for me to fully forgive my W for her affairs.<p>The only correlation with what is currently happening is that my W, would rather run to her family than make any attempts at resolving our problems together. . . . Her family would rather see me dead that in their daughters life (and that is not an exaggeration). They have made thier opinions of me very clear since the day they met me. Before my W left htis last time, there was probably reason to suspect that things in the marriage might be salvageable. . . She has chosen to run, to take my daughter and hide her from me three times rather than work on our problems. . . . Three times is a charm.<p>Heartpain -- Thank You for your support. Your are entirely correct, that I am at fault in the problems in my marriage. I have never denied that.<p>My gripe now. . . My number one concern is no longer my marriage. My W has made it perfectly clear that the marriage doesn't matter. . . What matters is that my Daughter has been taken and hidden from me, and I have been forbiden access to her. . . .I can't afford to get legal help in this situation.. . .not because I make too little money. I just don't have several thousand dollars lying around. No one will work with me without that up front. . .and I simply can not get it. I've talked with the "help" organizations. . .they ask how much I make a year, laugh at me and tell me to get out.<p>I can't win.<p>Can I afford to make payments to a lawyer. . . absolutely. . . but I don't have the $2000 to $5000 down that they have all demanded in cash.

ES,<p>Thanks so much for responding. <p>Regarding your number 1 concern. From her emails it doesn't sound like she's hiding her daughter out. It sounds like she chose not to live with you and left, but gives you the option to see her. You say she points out she won't let you take her out of the MIL's home. I believe it's probably because with no in hand parental agreement she knows you could take her from you. I can very much understand this concern. This will change as soon as parental agreements are in place. For right now, all you can do is do the best you can and go see your daughter any way on her terms.<p>Is there any other options you have in getting money. IRA's, borrowing money from banks, relatives, friends? Anything at all you can sell?<p>If what you want is a divorce and to only see your daughter now, then so be it, then the only thing you can do is either save or find a way to come up with this money. <p>Okay, she may have left three times, but when you tell me you don't want to give in to her or to anything she wants it makes me curious if there's reasons she felt you wouldn't listen to her until she actually left. I also still think you should look at the reasons your spouse left with an open mind.<p>I know you say your marriage is over, but I'm still curious about the relationship. I also know you say your wife made a choice, but I can't help but wonder so I'm going to ask you again. If you would have stopped the relationship with this OW...Would your wife had still left you?<p>I don't know if your answer is yes or no, but If this answer is yes then I'd have to say you chose this OW over your wife. If this is the case, in my opinion you chose not to work on the marriage too.<p>ES, I don't know enough about the situation, I don't want to go back to old post. I'd really rather start fresh and like to ask you personally.<p>If you mind me asking these questions. PLEASE don't answer. Ok here they are.<p>Did your wife ever tell you the relationship with this other woman was affecting the marriage before she left?<p>If so, Did you make changes and follow POJA?<p>If she had the same relationship with another male right now as you do with this female, please trying to answer this with an open mind...Would you see have any problems with her having the same relationship you are having with this other woman? ie., If she called, talked on the computer and was such really good friends like you are with the other person.<p>I have to go, I hope I wasn't to hasty in my post as I typed quickly without proofing.<p>Lastly, if you like for me to lay off these questions and just support you through your divorce, I will honor this. Just give me the word.<p>Take care and good luck,<p>ANNA

Empty Shell (and Hopeful),<p>I just wanted you to know that I did see the other posting on GQII - some of the ones before they were deleted.<p>As an oldtimer, all I can say is that I feel horrible that things have digressed between you and Hopeful to this point. You guys are in a fine mess right now - everyone is pointing fingers outward.<p>I do know that both of your emotions are high right now, and that means decisions will be made from an emotional platform. Those don't usually turn out to be the best decisions. Please guys, CALL A TRUCE! Take some time to do things right. I definitley agree that moving your daughter all over is not in the child's best interests. You guys need to get back in counseling, ASAP. No matter what - you share a child and the responsibility for her, too. Please slow down before the damage is too much!<p>Prayers for all 3 of you, Desiree

Anna2000 -- <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>From her emails it doesn't sound like she's hiding her daughter out. It sounds like she chose not to live with you and left, but gives you the option to see her.<hr></blockquote>This might have been accurate a few days ago. . .Now it is not. As I think I said, my W has told me that she is moving, and refused to tell me where she is moving to.<p>The Emails that have been sent to my daughter have been answered by my W, not my daughter, therefore I have to assume that if she is even being shown the Emails, she is not being told what they really say. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>For right now, all you can do is do the best you can and go see your daughter any way on her terms.<hr></blockquote>There it is again . . . on her terms I would like to point out here that my daughter has been for all intents kidnapped from me. I have no recourse available to me to be able to see my daughter when I do not even know where she is. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Is there any other options you have in getting money.[/qoute]No I am afraid there isn't. I was forced to file bankruptcy earlier this year, and as such have zero collateral. My family has no ability to come up with the money to loan me. . . My W's family on the other hand has lots of money. . . They have been "buying" my daughter since the day they helped to kidnap her. Taking her shopping for toys and clothes every day. Renting an apartment for my W to help further hide her and my daughter from me. . .[quote]Did your wife ever tell you the relationship with this other woman was affecting the marriage before she left?<hr></blockquote> NO in fact she was constantly telling me to go over to the house in order to "provide a stable male role model for the kids". The only time ANYTHING was said about this being an issue was after she left. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>If she had the same relationship with another male right now as you do with this female, please trying to answer this with an open mind...Would you see have any problems with her having the same relationship you are having with this other woman? ie., If she called, talked on the computer and was such really good friends like you are with the other person.<hr></blockquote>. . . Well, lets see . . . .more than 15 affaris, at least one of them physical. A refuseal to "talk" about why things got as bad as they did 5 years ago, nor about the problems which occured after that. . . Including her suicide attempt at the beginning of this year. . . .Hell yea that would have bothered me. Had she bothered to employ the POJA at any point in our marriage, that might be another story. . . <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Lastly, if you like for me to lay off these questions and just support you through your divorce, I will honor this. Just give me the word.<hr></blockquote>Laying off the questions is not an issue for me. The accusatory tones, the continual attitude that the H has to be the bad guy and at fault in everything, are the things which bother me.<p>It was this basic attitude which caused me to remove my posts from the GQII board recently.<p>Have I made mistakes. . . . You bet.<p>Would I do things differently if I knew what I know now . . . of course I would, but hind sight is 20/20 isn't it.<p>One of the main reasons that I came back to these forumns, and to this forumn in particular, is because over the last three years that I have posted here, I have gotten some very good advice and support. . . And so did my W when she chose to post on something other than the "fluff" threads about birthdays, jokes, etc.<p>My W has made it very clear that she has no intention of doing anything to try and improve our relationship. . .Her actions regarding my daughter are absouletly glowing neon examples of this. If she wanted to try and work on the relationship, do you think the proper method was to kidnap my daughter? Does running away, and refusing to discuss anything or make any attempts at compromise show ANY desire to try and salvage a nine (9) year marriage?<p>She has decided that the marriage is over. . . fine. I have tried to work on the marriage for almost five (5) years. When I reached a point where I was questioning things, I stayed while I was trying to figure things out.<p>If the marriage is over, so be it. . .But we have an eight year old daughter who is forbiden from seeing her father, her cousins, her aunt, or her grandparents. She IS the number one priorityin my life. She will continue to be so. Obviously she is NOT the number one priority in my W's life. . .She is simply the "most valuable pawn".<p>ANNA, I apologize if I am bashing you. . . I probably am, I just feel so damn helpless and abused in all of this. I do value the thoughts and opinions of every one on these forumns, but everyone needs to remember that I am the only one at fault in the demise of my marriage. . . And that the only one who is being truly hurt in the way my W is acting is our daughter.

Roll Me Away -- <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>No matter what - you share a child and the responsibility for her, too. Please slow down before the damage is too much!<hr></blockquote>This is EXACTLY my point. Personally I will heal from what is happening. . . My daughter should not have to go through this. . . .the decisions are not mine to make. . . they belong to my W. I have tried many, many times to get her to try and at the very least do things in a friendly manner so that our daughter does not suffer. . .My W and her family believe that gifts solve all things. The loss of her daddy is just something else that they can buy a toy or clothes to cover up for.<p>It is my daughter who is being permanently harmed here.

As far as my showing a lack of interest in seeing my daughter . . . That is not at all the case. I have have tried calling my daughter every few days, and have sent her an Email at least once a day.<p>You and I know that you are desperate to see your daughter, but proving it is going to be hard in the courts.....this was my point. I agree that it sounds like she has been kidnapped from you...is there such a thing as legal aid in the US? Try that.<p>Love and light,<p>Jacky

Nina too -- <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>is there such a thing as legal aid in the US? Try that.<hr></blockquote>I'm not sure what you mean Nina, my brain is a little fried right now though, so that may be all it is.<p>. . . duh, oh yea, now I understand. . . .The legal aid that I am aware of is designed to help the destitute (sp?) I make ok money. I can afford to make payments to a lawyer. . . It's coming up with so much money up front that I can't do. When I called the legal aid folks, they pretty much asked me how much I make, then practically laughed me off the phone. . . It's kind of like getting food stamps if you are suddenly out of a job. . . They don't look at the immediate situation, they look at the overall situation. Not very fair for those folks who find themselves hurting because of an injury or something and end up having to wait until they can prove there has been no income for three months. . . .<p>I would simply settle for some honest to goodness commonsense and fair play for change. . . . ah wishfull thinking, I know. . . .

Can't you get a one off free consultation with someone? That is pretty common here.

I think it's just time for bed. One mistake after another.<p>Sheesh. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ December 03, 2001: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]</p>

ES,<p>I'm going to try this again. I was working with the kids on homework and also getting one to bed. I made an error on my post. I had meant to erase something and didn't. Here's the revised post.<p>ES,<p>If your bashing me it is just fine. I mean that. You are frustrated about not seeing your little girl, you are in a panick I see that also. PLEASE BASH if you need to.<p>Although, I don't see it as bashing at all. I see it as a man looking desperately for answers.<p>I did not misunderstand your statement about wife moving. I'm sorry about that. Somehow I just thought she didn't know where she was moving. Anyway, I know this isn't much comfort but save your money, do everything you can to get the money for the divorce, it may sound like forever, but I think this is all you can do. Come up with a budget on how long it will take you to get this money. I know this is frustrating. I can see your frustration as you read this. Patience is so hard when it comes to our children. However, you need to clear your head and come up with a game plan. It's all you can do right now.<p>If she's still at her mother's house. Ask her if you can come by to see the daughter. Yes maybe this is her terms, but it's all you got right now.<p>Patience is hard but I think in the long run if she keeps this up, this is going to look very bad for her in court. I'd suggest you keep all emails. Find out what the laws are regarding taping conversations, then if you have to tell her you are taping for the tapes to be used in court, then tell her. I do think an officer once told me federal law is if one person in the conversation is privy to the conversation then it's admissable but I really don't know.<p>I want to tell you this also. I am the type of mom that believes unless there is physical or verbal abuse to the child, the father needs to stay in the child's life at all cost. I would not move to another city, let alone another state, because I want their father to be a big part of their lives. I've told him he can see the boys anytime he wants. I've let him have them extra time, because I feel our court system can be unfair to fathers. This is not just being unfair to fathers, but unfair to the children also. I put aside my feelings of his abuse to me, in order to work with him as much as possible to give my children their dad. Okay, I'm rambling too much here, but I wanted you to know how incredibly strong I feel regarding this.<p>I also, never thought for a minute it was just your fault alone. Most of the time it's at least 50/50. Sometimes it's more one sided also. We have to ask questions to know answers to whats going on.<p>As you know MB is about changing ourselves, not our spouses. If you have done everything in your marriage, possible and there's nothing you can do to change her mind in coming back, then get the divorce and stand proud. Knowing you weren't perfect but you tried your best and it just didn't work.<p>Thanks for answering some of my questions. I appreciate it very much.<p>Take care and please keep posting here. I've said this before, "Take the things you read that are good and will help you grow as a person, and file away the rest." Trust me, we will all get both.<p>ANNA<p>[ December 03, 2001: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]</p>