This is a repost from last week. I originally posted on thread that doesn't get much exposure.<p>Hi All,<p>
I have posted this on another divorce help forum, but I need to gather as much advice as possible.<p>My story is rather long, so I hope someone with experience on the matter would take time to read it and offer some helpful advice. I think you will find the turn of events intriguing at the very least.<p>My wife and I have been together for 10 years. We have 4 beautiful children, but all were
born out of wedlock. We were not married until June of 2000. Right or wrong, that is
just how things worked out, but we have been very much in love since we met and started
dating. That is until my wife experienced an affair earlier this year. It, the affair, lasted
about two months. She dropped the bomb on me, just hours before we were to go out on
our first wedding anniversary, informing me that she had fallen in love with another man.
This is all going to sound funny, but I guess I had best give as many details as possible...<p>My parents were watching our children that evening (of our anniversary) so that we could
go out alone and celebrate our first year as a married couple. In light of the
aforementioned revelation of my wife’s affair, and her subsequently falling out of love with
me, we for obvious reasons, did not go out and decided to relieve my parents of the now
unnecessary babysitting duties, then we were to come home and begin to make our separation/divorce plans. Also, while picking up our kids from my mother's house, we chose to break the news to my mother that we were headed for divorce after only one year of marraige.<p>This is weird part #1; My wife, whom is fairly close to my mother, took on the task of explaining to my mother that she had
fallen in love with another man and how it came about. My mother, being the
understanding person that she is, listened patiently, then replied that she had in fact been
through a similar situation herself at one point in her life. She continued to explain that what my wife thought was true love, wasn’t in fact TRUE love that she (my wife) had found in this other man, for they had not spent enough time together to form TRUE love. My wife thought about this for a moment, then suddenly reversed her tracks and asked for my forgiveness. Me, being a very forgiving person, not to mention the fact
that I stilled loved her then as much as I did 10 years ago, did forgive, inspite of her infidelity. <p>I admit, for the next couple of weeks, I experienced a an almost unbearable degree of
pain and resentment. Attempting to grasp as much understanding as possible, as well as assurance that she really did love me and wanted our marraige to work, I asked her countless questions about the affair and her apparent
commitment to our marriage. There was in fact a point during my process of trying to
understand why this happened, that I didn’t think I could continue with our marriage due
to the persisting pain and told my wife that I was going to pursue a divorce. I’m telling
you, once the 'divorce' word came up, this woman BEGGED me to believe her that she knew that she had made a huge mistake and she had truly learned a valuable lesson. She insisted that she still loved me as much as she ever has, and this type of thing would never happen again. She literally fell to her knees and BEGGED me for another chance at our marriage. After that show, there was no way I could deny her. I was convinced that she was truly sincere about us and I felt so badly for her that she was in that much pain for doing what she had done. After all, this is the only woman I have ever been in love with, so how could I not 'suck it up' and deal with the pain and try again?<p>That's all it took for me and we suddenly found ourselves both crying and holding each other like we were never going to let go again. I also promised not to bring this other man's name up anymore and focus only on us. I wanted to put the issue behind me for I believe in looking to the future and not dwelling on the past. You know something? For the next couple of months we found ourselves more affectionate and more in love after this event than we ever were before her affair. I had almost felt that her affair was the best thing that ever happened to us because of how close it drew us. For nearly 3 months after the affair ended, we were nearly inseparable, always affectionate, kissing and hugging. We communicated and understood our thoughts like never before. <p>That’s the way things were up until she took a three week vacation to see her family in
another state.<p>I personally drove her and my children to a city 900 miles away so that she could enjoy her
annual visit with her family. I could not get away from work to spend the three weeks
with her and returned home to my job. Every day that they were gone, I called, we talked, and we
both reiterated our love for one another. In fact, on one occasion, I even sent her flowers even though they would be returning home in less than a week. I just couldn't wait to see her to give them to her personally. <p>Weird part #2; As scheduled, my wife and children returned from their vacation just in time for the kids to start school in late August. Immediately, I noticed a decidedly different attitude in my wife. We were still hugging, kissing and communicating, but I sensed something was not the way it was when she left for vacation. her attempts at affection began to feel cold and we were not communicating as effectively as we were prior to her vacation. In fact, she began treating me in a similar fashion that she was just before she informed me of her affair. After two weeks of this, my concern got the best of me and I inquired as to what was wrong? She then dropped the same 'ol bomb on me that she did three months earlier, that she was indeed STILL in love with the other man and in fact had called
him after three months of no contact and made plans to meet him. I am still in a certain
degree of shock, because I thought we had cleared the biggest hurdle of our lives. <p>Well, she didn’t follow through with the rendezvous at that time, but did emphasize that
she was no longer in love with me. She explains that this other man has given her insight
to a love that she has never experienced. I have asked many times over, just what kind of
love is it that I cannot offer. She says she can’t necessarily put a finger on it, but says that their love involves TWO people giving. Am I wrong? Was I not giving enough? I swear I was giving so much of my energy to her that I literally didn't have much for myself. She also
went on to say that BEFORE we were married, I did not’t give enough then either. But if that is the
case, I for the life of me cannot understand why she bothered to marry me. Moreover, it
isn’t true that I didn’t give before we were married. Maybe it’s because I gave even more
AFTER we were married, she feels she was robbed of something. I don’t know. I am so confused now.<p>Anyway, just last week she called this other man AGAIN and made plans to meet. Once more, she decided not to meet him, citing that it would not be fair to me. She does say that she wants to get a divorce and wants to go back home now to her family out of state. She has agreed, however, to stay here until the kids are out of school this coming spring. This is to lessen the impact on them as we both know it will be a severe blow to them when/if we split for good. <p>I have some time given her agreement to wait for school to release, but what can I do? Is
it possible for her to fall back in love with me? Is there ANYTHING I can do? I love
this woman more than air. She is the greatest thing that ever happened to me and I will do
ANYTHING to save this marriage. <p>If anyone is reading this, thank you for being so patient. There are many other details that
I just can’t type right now for I am exhausted. If asked of those details, I will reply
immediately. I am desperate.<p>Someone, please help before it’s too late.

Please read this post and many helpful responses on the Emotional Needs board:<p>wife's heart in two places - husband and lover - trip scheduled<p>Perhaps you can print it out and share it with your wife. She sounds very confused about what she wants ... it depends on who she is with ... meaning she's not thinking for herself but agreeing with whomever is offering advice.<p>Hope this helps.

Hi LesBois,
I'm not sure that I can offer any great advice to you. There are certainly aspects of your posting that reflect mine. I think you made better progress than me. The behavior your wife is experiencing is very common. It's hard to choose between two things that you genuinely love, in different capacities. There are probably lots of books written on it already. Her feelings for this other person cannot be turned off like a light switch. It's going to take time for this to happen.<p>It seems to me that you both have been trying to meet each others emotional needs. That is a very good and encouraging news. I think that you have to understand that there will be a few, maybe more than a few, times where she flip/flops between her love for you and her love for the other man. This is going to continue to happen for a time. I'm not sure if it's a short time or a long time. In my experience, its still happening six months later. I hope that it doesn't last long, but I believe it will continue to occur for at least a year.<p>One other point that stuck out to me was the contact with the other man. I am very clear about not having any contact with the other person. NONE. Any contact just brings back a flood of emotions for that person and starts the separation process back to zero. It's going to take at least 6 months of no contact with this person for her to begin to lose feelings for her.<p>Every time my wife has contacted the other person, and she told me about it, we took extra drastic steps to make sure it doesn't happen again. For example, I always, always change my phone number, make sure I have caller ID, and monitor it. You may think this is drastic and snooping, but I'm honest in my statements that I want to work on oiur relationship, and block contact with this other person. I have told her clearly that if she has contact with this person again, we are going to move to another state! She knows the consequences of her possible action. I am sincere in that I will follow through and move.<p>Anyway, I think you have to understand that this setback will occur, and that she has to accept it and help move forward.<p>Peace,
Jim

THanks to both of you for your valuable insight. Things have been moving rather rapidly the past week or so and I have unintenionally omitted some subsequent events and details. <p>Princess Buttercup, I will consider showing her the thread you suggested. There are indeed some striking similarities in these situations (Jim's too).<p>The other man is a friend of my sister. My mother knows this OM as well, and needless to say, mom isn't very happy with him. After my wife called him again a week or two ago, I sent him and email. I won't get into details about what I told him, but I am sure most of you can guess the substance of those thoughts. I did offer to discuss this with him in person, but have not heard from him personally - solidifing my stance that he is a coward. He did, however, call my mother to emphasize to her that he had made a mistake and assured her that it was over from his end. My wife says that he has told her something quite the opposite. She claims that he feels they have a future of some sort. <p>I am not so stupid to not know that this man is after no more than easy sex. He is single and a barfly-type. My wife is exceptionally attractive so I can understand where his hormones are coming from. But not for one instant do I believe he is prepared to take on my four children and serve as their step-father. He just isn't the type and I know damn well that after a few months, maybe a year, he's gone - leaving what was once a close, god loving family left to pick up the peices. My wife has a tough time seeing that. <p>Yesterday, we made love for the first time in several weeks. Sexually, she is ruined. She just doesn't respond like she used to. We used to make love almost daily - sometimes several times a day. I apparently am not attractive to her anymore, and I'm gussing that it's a result of her feelings for him.<p>Anyway, I don't know if she will contact him again (I know the coward won't call our home), but if she does, even though she says she won't, I wonder if he will follow the lines which he told my mother, that he was not interested in her anymore, or if he will jump on the opportunity for quick, easy sex. I hope he would just tell her to go away, but from a man's perspective, she is very difficult to resist. Time will tell on that one.<p>I still have until June to figure out what I need to do for her to fall back in love with me. As mentioned in Jim's post, we have a much better chance to get this family back on track if she has NO contact with him. Time will tell...<p>Thanks again for the advice! <p>Les Bois,<p>Boise, ID

Do a search and find amy posts by redhat and they will have links to posts for newcomers, which are very helpful. Try to read everything that you can on this website, or read Surviving and Affair. The WS(wayward spouse) thinks that the relationship with the OP(other person) is so wonderful that it can never be duplicated, but that simply isn't true. You can regain all of the love with your spouse, but first you have to be out of the relationship with the OP. After the WS gives up the OP ther eis a period of withdrawal - just like drugs - in which the WS can have no contact with the OP. Any contact with OP just puts them back into withdrawal. After withdrawal is over, you can begin to meet the WS needs. See info. on Plan A and Plan B. Please read up on this subject because what you are going through is nothing new. Goog Luck and stay strong. K

Thank you, MyLife!<p>I have been reading as much as possible on these forums. There is a wealth of information. Hopfully I will be able to apply what I learn to our situation. So far, I see light at the end of the tunnel. I desperately want to turn this tragedy into a happy ending.<p>Today was my birthday and my wife did not give me a "To My Loving Husband" card -- only a "Thanks For Being My Friend" card. She did write 'I Love You' on it, but I think it was an "I Love You as A Friend" gesture. I will take those words and cherish them until I hear the kind of "I Love You" that I long for.<p>I am confused, but hanging strong - so far. <p>
Thanks for your support!<p>
LesBois<p>Boise, ID

Les,
I'm reading your original post thinking to myself "that's me." Your wife is me. That sounds EXACTLY like something i'd do.<p>Together a long time, relationship gets really intimate, run like the wind. That's me.<p>I honestly don't know what advice that I can give. I'm still trying to figure this one out for myself. The way my boyfriend deals with it is basically a combination on emotinoal divorce and plan A. So far so good.<p>He gives me LOTS of space, lots and lots and lots. It ALWAYS makes me miss him. Then when i'm able to deal with it he's really sweet and affectionate. HOWEVER, pushing too much touchy-feely on me makes me feel trapped and want to cheat.<p>Probably doesn't make since to many here, but that's just how it is with me.<p>Good luck. I'm anxious to read what advice more seasoned MB's post.

Hi Katie!<p>Thanks for the post. My third daughter's name is Katie - Beautiful!<p>I'm happy to see there is someone that can understand my wife's position, because I sure as h*!! can't. But now that I think about it, Wednesday she became sexually interested for the first time in a number of weeks, only after I pulled away from her emotionally. She initiated it - not me. So maybe you have something there. I also recently started going back to my old habits before this all started. I go to the gym, maybe have a beer after work with friends once in a while, etc. I wonder if this drives her insane? You think? <p>Please let me know if your boyfriend does this and it is what causes you to miss him. If so, I shall do more of it.<p>Thanks again, Katie!<p>LesBois<p>Boise, ID

Les,<p>I wanted to suggest a book that I read a number of years ago that might give you some ideas. It's by Dr. James Dobson and I think the title is Love Must be Tough. It gives real help and advice on how to reel a cheating spouse back into a marriage. You're on the right track about her showing more interest when you show less. I don't think it's that she's purposefully playing games with you, rather it's human nature to want something you can't have. Right now, she can have you -- in fact you've said yourself you've expended so much energy to make her happy that you're exhausted. Meanwhile, this other guy seems like this great love she's being denied. The stakes are much higher, but this really isn't any different than telling one of your children they can't have something and then watching them plot ways to get it anyway. Infatuation can cause such a high that she can't think straight -- not just about you but the life you made together and, of course, the kids. You might be actually making it too easy on her to emotionally distance away from you.<p>If some disinterest on your part is actually working, I highly suggest this book. I'm pretty sure it's still available in print. <p>Bambi

Les,
"Insane" may be an over statement, but the withdrawl certainly peaks the interest!<p>I like when he missed me. I LOVE when he chases me, but it feels completely overwhelming and makes me pull away. (Welcome to the upside down world of Katie Scarlett).<p>I like that he desires me, but it feels really good to know that he has his own life too. There is a just a HUGE fear factor for me. <p>I don't know how to describe this to make it make since. I have had several long term relationships but have never seriously considered marriage. (Been engaged 3 times) I'll bet if you ask her, your wife will say that marriage has a completely different meaning to her than it does to you. In my mind, I think marriage, I think ball and chain. Stuck for life. Obligated.

Problem with the ball-and-chain scenario is that my wife DID have all the freedom in the world. That's why I'm now here.

I can only speak for myself on this one Les. But I know me. If i'm single I feel free. Even if i'm home cooking dinner and scrubbing floors every night. <p>But if i'm married and hanging out in bars I still feel confined.<p>It's less about what's ACTUALLY happening. And more about how I feel about what's happening.<p>Make any since?

Good Morning!<p>I just wanted to give and update on my situation with my STBX and maybe gather a little more advice. <p>I have been in plan A mode for a couple of months now, but don't seem to be getting anywhere. My W is still hell-bent on D. When school is out she plans to take the kids and move home and will file there. She has had no contact with OM since November. She now tells me that he isn't good enough for her/my kids. Not sure what that means.<p>In any case, she is convinced she will find someone that she can experience the same feelings with/for that she did with OM, -- this time it being out from under the marriage umbrella. That would apparently make it (a new relationship) right. She does want to be married, but not to me because she does not love, nor can she ever feel the same way about me again - so she says. I wonder if the reason she feels that way is because she was once viewed as the perfect little angle type. With that image now ruined, she has to find someone that sees her that way again. I do not dwell on what happend, so it isn't me leading her to feel that way. I don't know, just speculation. <p>Anyone have thoughts on that? Should I continue with plan A? I have not told her that I love her since Thanksgiving. That was at her request and it hurt almost as much as the A itself. So she is voluntarily and unwittingly complying with an element of Plan A. <p>I may have made a mistake recently. Feeling down-and-out a few weeks ago, and losing faith that we could work out our marraige, I signed up for an on-line dating service. I did so mostly out of curiosity, but I started getting email from ladies wanting to meet. Of course she found the emails before I did. Her response was no more that a slight chuckle and a comment that I must be as anxious as her to meet someone else. That didn't sound overwhelminly promising from my perspective. Do you think I blew it or was that a sign that I have no chance?<p>Also, with Valentines Day approaching, what should I do? I can't get her an I Love You card. Do I give her candy, or do I merely let the day pass without acknowledging the meaninig of the event?<p>At one time I thought I could see hopeful light at the end of the tunnel. It's starting to get darker now as she seems very convinced that this is what she has to do.<p>Any ideas would be sincerely appreciated.<p>
LesBois

<small>[ January 26, 2005, 03:10 PM: Message edited by: hanora ]</small>

Thanks for the timely post, hanora. I don't have a problem with where my kids will be. She is moving in with her mother and she has 8 brothers and sisters that live in the that area. They are a close family, so my kids will be well tended. I'm OK with that.<p>Counseling is not an option for her as we tried a few sessions. She is convinced this is what she must do and no marriage counselor is going to tell her otherwise. She has "Prince Charming" right here, but can't see it. There is little I can do or know how to do to help her see through the fog anymore. <p>She doesn't seem to think having 4 kids is any disadvantage. I have discussed this with her to a degree. Her claim is that "if a man doesn't accept my kids, then he doesn't love me anyway". She is used to being the prettiest girl in the room, and she still commands that image. But, you're right, once it is learned that she has 4 kids, I am guessing that most men will be scrambling for the door.<p>Her position on waiting to get home before filing for D is due to a phobia of hers that she will not be able to legally take the kids out of state if it is done here. I doubt I could prevent her from moving w/kids anyway, but keeping prisoners is not what I am about.<p>I don't know, maybe I should start taking a closer look at those personals. It may be my future.<p>Any advice on V-Day? Get her a card, no?<p>LesBois

Howdy LesBois.<p>Our trials seem to be VERY similar. My plan A lasted from mid-April 2001 to 1/1/02. We had a period of bliss very similar to yours. Then it was back to pining for the OM. No feelings for me. Doesn't love me that way. You know the routine. Seems something happened to their OM to change their tune so now our WS's are stuck with their lack of "feelings" for us and a scewed view of what "real love" feels like so now they're going to search for Mr. Right. That feeling is their drug. My WS is on her own now frequenting more than a few bars searching.<p>The absolute worse thing you could do right now is get involved with someone else. Definitely be mysterious, but I highly recommend that you do not get involved with someone else.

Hi.<p>I suggest to also visit.www.divorcebusting.com.
Read the book that has been mentioned before Love Must Be Tough by James Dobson.<p>Go to this thread... its very interesting.
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=37&t=014880<p>I hope the threads work.... if the second didn't
go to General question II board and look up the post..."Hey CarolKH... can you elaborate on your story? " This is very insightful... also over on the general questions II is: "Advice on Plan A from mb endorsing therapist !!!" These will kind of help ya get the idea.... At times like this its hard to process all the information.... but see what might work for you.<p>I know its hard right now... MANY of us have been where you are.... Just read all you can and post and vent. Don't vent to your wife... that only drives them away....<p>Keep your chin up... This is one heck of a rollercoaster ride you're on.<p>Keep us posted....
s

<small>[ January 26, 2005, 03:13 PM: Message edited by: hanora ]</small>

Thanks to you all for the support and advice. W just carries on with her daily routine, acting like nothing is happening. We now sleep in different rooms on opposite ends of the house. We are no more than room mates anymore. Her best freind that lives accross the street says that by judging from what W tells her, there is not a snowballs chance in he!! for us. Neighbor has unsuccessfuly tried to talk reason with W, but she just doesn't care.<p>I will continue with plan A after reading the recommended thread. That's the way I want my story to end. But W knows where I am all the time. Work, home, the gym. That's about all I do. I suppose I should start going out with friends more. Maybe make a habit of coming in late, just to see what her reaction is. With my luck, whe will only accuse me of not having interest in the kids, further justifying her reason for divorce. It's almost a damn'd if I do and damn'd if I don't position anymore.<p>
Thanks again for the advice. I will come back soon and update as the story unfolds. Good luck to everyone in my shoes - I share your pain. Seems we are all delt unfair hands, but it is up to ourselves to do the best with what we have.<p>LesBois

LesBois,
I'm feeling for you friend. It's a hard road! I've been through this and want to share a little with you. This "I love you but I'm not IN love with you" Most of us have heard that. Not to say that it didn't hurt but gather strength from the fact that it's said a LOT in these situations. Even in ones that have turned around with God's help.

My W and I slept in separate rooms too. Our Marriage went more and more down hill to the point that I think she REALLY hated me!

I went almost 2 years without hearing "I love you" from my W. I just kept saying it and hearing "Ah, I know" or "Ok, I'll talk to you soon" Etc...<p> Give her a card. That's my opinion. My point is, WE are the ones that need to be consistent (I know it's unfair)
I used to think of my W as being brain washed by a cult (an affair is as strong!) and I told myself that I needed to just keep telling her and showing her I loved her. Even when she pulled further and further away.<p> Here's a GREAT MB story:
One woman here on MB had a H deep in an affair. He moved out and had NO contact with her. BUT.... she wrote him a letter EVERY week. Sometimes several a week. Always telling him how much she believed in their Marriage and most of all IN HIM. That all would be OK because HE was a strong man. He NEVER responded but she kept it up.
Well, after a LONG while this man came home. He never mentioned the letters and neither did she.
One day she was doing his laundry, things pretty much back to normal, their love restored even stronger than before.
She checked the pocket of a pair of jeans he hadn't worn in a long time. In the pocket was a piece of paper. It looked old and worn. She opened it carefully. It had been opened a closed so much it was creased to the point she was afraid it would fall apart in her hands. When she realized what it was she cried. I was a letter she had written her Husband while he was away. A particularly heart felt one telling him what a good man he was. She was never sure if he had even read it!!<p> He told her that it kept him strong while he was gone. He had an affair and had so much guilt he thought he would never forgive himself. He read the letter over and over until he could start to forgive himself enough to come home. My W was the same. She STILL cries because she has a hard time forgiving herself. God bless her...
I believe your W is (Like most) trying to "justify" her mistake. If your Marriage was NEVER what she needed (in her head right now) then she can forgive herself.
She's kidding herself... someday it WILL come back.

Oh, before I forget... I don't think it's a good idea letting her read your posts....she's not in the right frame of mind right now. It also could come close to "educating" her which is considered by Harley as disrespectful. Plus, you'll need to REALLY REALLY vent sometimes (read some of MY old posts!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] ) I've cried screamed yelled punched verbally at the air. Here is the best place to do it so you DON'T vent to HER!! This is YOUR place....
GOOD LUCK & PRAYERS FRANK