A Question To Betrayed Spouses?What drives some to want to recover, Plan-A, Plan-B, Minimize Love Busters and try to find their way back to their Marriage?<p>I have not been back to MB for some time. Have a very close friend that after 3 years of marital counseling is at a loss to try and keep his marriage together. His marital problems do not involve infidelity but suggested he visit MB and look at all the good stuff that the Harley's have, Emotional Needs, Love Busters, and POJA. Just wanted to drop in and check things out since I had not been here for awhile. And saw some of the old timers and unfortunately so many new folks and as I read many of the posts I noted something that I always marveled at...the numerous Betrayed Spouses that were, after Discovery still trying to "Hang In" there and make their marriage work. Some with not only the EA, but also physical and emotional abuse and many many other situations in the marriage that you would think would make the decision to leave and easy one to make. When I think back to the process and steps my wife and I went through it blows me away to see women and men really hanging in through some of what clearly is the roughest of times.<p>My experience seems like it was a million years ago. After 18 years of marriage I was a WS. Our marriage had become severely polarized due to not meeting emotional needs. After 8 years of my wife refusing to consider Sexual Fulfillment as a bon-a-fide marital emotional need, tried one last attempt to satisfy one of her top 5 (Financial Support & Domestic Support) and took much of investments I had before we married and inheritance and built her the dream house she had always wanted. Six months later nothing changed nor was there any willingness on her part to work to make a change.<p>I understood then and now that my behavior can never be any kind of a substitute for open communication and trying each and every day to meet each other's most important emotional needs. I took 100% responsibility for what I did and I and still do to this day. I admitted all to my wife, we started joint counseling that be both were hopeful would help us with the earthquake of what I had done to the marriage but also help us to both really embrace and practice the concept of Most Important Emotional Needs into our marriage and help us begin the path to recovery. Unfortunately our therapist concentrated on my behavior, how I was a defective person and we spent several sessions, which evolved around him driving home the concepts to me of guilt and shame. We barely got to the EN issues and when the discussion centered about my behavior and Sexual Fulfillment my wife offered her feelings that literally stopped my breathing when she admitted that... making love had never been something she enjoyed at all!...ever!...confessing that in her High School days she did not fool around a lot and did not have many boyfriends or engage in the whorish sexual relations that some of the girls at her school did with their partners.<p>To make a long story short, we stopped going to therapy, my wife attempted an almost kind of Plan A, for just about 4 weeks and then filed for divorce. The proceedings were long and drawn out and she tried to use them as a forum and vehicle to punish me and be very vindictive. Before the final decree, she shocked the lawyers and Judge in one update we had to give before the court that as part of what I had done, she felt it more than fair that she get one-half the money back on what I had recently spent to bury my Father after he lost his battle to cancer.<p>So all of you out there that have really worked hard to come back and find your path back to recovery?Please tell me what was making you tick? I read from Mitzi, Anna2000 and many many others that have done more than 100% to try and find the way back!<p>Why with many more painful things in many of the posts here...many of you have gone back and tried to re-build and recover! Tell me what was in your soul and your heart that made you believe and strive to find your way back to your partner and your marriage?<p>Thanks, Best to everyone for a peaceful and safe Holiday Season!<p>Mr rlk
[img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ December 06, 2001: Message edited by: mrrlk ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by mrrlk:
<strong>A Question To Betrayed Spouses?What drives some to want to recover, Plan-A, Plan-B, Minimize Love Busters and try to find their way back to their Marriage?</strong><hr></blockquote><p>*Love
*Belief in marriage vows
*Love
*Commitment to God and spouse
*Love
*Belief that people can change and be forgiven
*Love
*Belief that 13 years of marriage (in my case) is worth more than the short-term length of an affair
*Love
*Knowledge that spouse is in a "fog" of a MLC and "not thinking straight" (his words)
*Love
*Belief that some things are worth fighting for<p>I spent one year in Plan A and wanted to do everything humanly possible...for the above reasons....to make my marriage work. I've been Plan B basically, since January of this year. Even tho I tried, I now understand and accept the end of the marriage. <p>Anyway, hope that helps answer your question. <p>Aloha,
Ms.O

I agree with Ms. O. I would also add to my list 3 children and one on the way. You realize that the WS is hurting so much that they are not only hurting you but their family, friends, job etc. andyou know that for the person you married to act like that they are going through something really tough, and I also think - what if I had a major problem, maybe not an A, but was an alcoholic or a drug addict or something. What response would I want my spouse to take. Would I want them to walk out on me - ir try to help me when I couldn't help myself. K

mrrlk,<p>That's a hard one.<p>My marriage is only 3 years (anniversary in a couple of weeks). I feel like my wife never gave me a chance - was always pining after the one she didn't marry.<p>So why don't I just give up?<p>1) We have a wonderful baby girl and I want to be her "on-site" Dad.
2) My W is "the one" for me. Sorry. I can't help it. When she is excited about something, it just thrills me. When she is happy (almost never) I am ecstatic (sp?). When I feel that she loves me (not often), I am the happiest man in the world.
3) My vows. I've basicly told her that if she wants a divorce, she will have to do it. I take my vows seriously. They are not conditional. It's not "I will do this if she will do that", but simply "I will do this."<p>-AD

Ms. O...thanks for your reply. You list what I'm finding most BS have as part of their core belief and foundation which is...that as a BS...after Discovery your have to want, to want to make it better! Someday, your husband will understand just how lucky he really was!<p>Tell me that as always, the islands are warm and beautiful as they always are this time of year. Used to travel to both Maui and Honolulu many times...miss it since have not been back since '96. Did they ever get rid of the Hawaiann Villiage along Waikiki beach?<p>Mylife-<p>You add another important reason...the children. We did not have any but I'm not sure that would of made a difference. I am still amazed that people like you after Discovery, look at the whole ordeal that caused alot of hurt and pain but also with a higher focus on understanding believe it or not, how your partner is feeling and working as hard as you can to find your way back. Still blows me away...your partner too some day will understand just how lucky they were!<p>AbandonedDad-
Like wise, you too are trying to focus on how you can find your way back...your patience is again, very hard for me to understand based upon what I experienced from my wife.<p>To All-<p>1. Did all of you go to counseling and was it helpful to you, your partner or both?<p>2. Before finding MB, did you really understand all the stuff that the Harley's educate most of us on as it related to Emotional Needs and the importance of...a) understanding what the important ones for your mate are and b) doing everything to meet those most important needs?<p>Thanks,
mr rlk

mrrlk,<p>I went to counseling 6 sessions. W showed up for about the 4th one. I don't know if it helped, but it cost me $450, and since I lost my job, I decided to discontinue it. Actually, I think it DID help. I was so devestated when W moved out that I just needed somebody to talk to. Yeah, it helped. But when W went, he kicked me out and talked to her about her childhood - which was pretty painful for her because her Mom abused her - so she didn't want to go back to C.<p>On your second question...<p>My W and I read HN/HN before we married and did the surveys. I think she tore mine up a few months later. Anyway, I don't know that it helped. I don't know if people really know what their EN's are. W doesn't believe in formulas and programs - says it would feel like being married to a program rather than a man.<p>I can say for sure that I didn't understand POJA. I read Give and Take after W moved out. I didn't accept that I shouldn't do anything that I didn't enthusiasticly agree to. Basicly I was a "whatever you want, dear" guy. That didn't work. I don't know if I'm doing any better now about that. I don't know if "Plan A" works with POJA. And since my W never accepted POJA, I don't think it could work. I think the "boundaries" model might help in such a case.<p>-AD

mrrlk,<p> Why do I try to repair my marriage? The first thing I realized was that I had not been a good husband to my wife. Not mean, not going out drinking, not many of the things marriages break up for. <p> I was incapable of showing the affection she craved at that time. I would set up nights working and playing on the computer rather than going to bed with her. That's it. The only complaints she had. <p> I realized very quickly that she was right and want to show her how sorry I am now. That I have changed those and many more qualities about myself that were not good for the marriage. <p> I have known this woman since I was 13 years old. Dated for a couple of years, married for almost 20 years, 4 kids. I cannot just let her go. She has been a part of my life too long. So much so that I am emotionally dependant on her. She was/is the love of my life. She was what made me get up in the morning and trudge off to work. She really brought out the best in me(with the exception of the above), she really did complete me. <p> Now I am lost. She told me she never really knew what love was. I did not help that as I should/could have. I try because I love her and want to show her what my love really is. <p> I try because I am scared of my future without her. Because I fear love won't touch me from another woman. Because I don't ever want to be hurt again by another. <p> I try because SHE IS MY BETTER SELF. The half that made me not only love her but love myself as well.<p> I can't explain it more. I do not know more than this.<p> I may be joining this group in the near future. That makes me want to try even harder. But at the same time, I have hurt far too long as it is.<p> She really did/does make me want to be a better man.<p> jd

took H back after his A, done while working as police officer on job with a M-woman, H was caught in woods outside city limits in police car, H left me when I needed him most in my life instead of being with me with a lump in my breast which needed to be removed(thank god it was ok), H was spending time at Hospital where MOW work & her surgery, OW husband told me about finding H in her room. H left our family for 3 weeks & came home, made demands for me to do inorder for him to stay, it was sex for him anytime & whatever H asked I did, I wanted our marriage to work not only for me but our son who was having a bad time in school over the A. 2 months later, H was seeing MOW at store 30mins before work, gave him a choice & H took her, after this I do not believe any person male or female who has A will change, its too easy for them to do again. They just do as my H did change the plans to meet. My H never did admitted any A (only oral sex with her & that doesnt count as sex to him), even when his best friend & boss told me about OW or OW husband gave me her cell-phone bill, people at local business told me about him waiting out front for females to pick up while in police car on duty, or the 30 to 50 calls a month H made from his cell-phone while on city time to call hospital ER or 2nd fl nursing station. H has now changed his story why he had to leave, now he is a loving H & I kicked him out after he tried to make our marriage work. H has new job as parole officer in Mobile Al, ( H was going to be fired when D was over) H will be married as soon as D is final on both sides.
A-jan,2001
Found out-April 28
File D-pending
OWD-pending, small children, very nice H.
C-12yr, 28yr, 7yr GD
used-17yrs, sorry I dont want to say married anymore, this is how I really feel.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by mrrlk:
<strong>Ms. O...thanks for your reply. You list what I'm finding most BS have as part of their core belief and foundation which is...that as a BS...after Discovery your have to want, to want to make it better! Someday, your husband will understand just how lucky he really was!</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Gee thanks! Yes, I too realized this (after the fact)...that we had such different core beliefs..I thought they were the same when we married, but I guess not. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Tell me that as always, the islands are warm and beautiful as they always are this time of year. Used to travel to both Maui and Honolulu many times...miss it since have not been back since '96. Did they ever get rid of the Hawaiann Villiage along Waikiki beach?<hr></blockquote><p>Ooooo...how warm and beautiful they are! I'm on the Big Island and love it the very best. While it's warm down in the lowlands, there is snow this morning on Mauna Kea. So beautiful. I haven't been to Waikiki for so long, I can't answer your other question.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>To All-
1. Did all of you go to counseling and was it helpful to you, your partner or both?
2. Before finding MB, did you really understand all the stuff that the Harley's educate most of us on as it related to Emotional Needs and the importance of...a) understanding what the important ones for your mate are and b) doing everything to meet those most important needs?
<hr></blockquote><p>1. I went to counseling alone. As soon as it was D-day, my H wanted out. Period. No counseling considered on his part. My alone counseling wasn't all that valueable. I went to two different counselors. I've found more support and real help at the MB forum, to be honest.<p>2. No, I didn't really understand what my H needed. I didn't really know what I needed. MB principles, etc. have been a big education for me.<p>Right now I'm listening to Dr. Phil's book-on-cd "Life Strategies" and he mentions how incredible it is that in our society no one really teaches us how to be married. That is so true. It's a wonder anyone stays together.<p>Aloha,
Ms.O<p>[ December 07, 2001: Message edited by: Ms.O ]</p>

Let's see. Day after D-day, I saw a priest. Then started weekly individual counseling with a very well respected physcologist. WH saw a social worker every now and then who told him to do whatever makes him happy?!? (In the throws of an affair - how could he even possibly tik straight?)<p>WH also saw a priest but was only impressed with the fact that the priest has left the priesthood for a few years - he obviously missed the part of the conversation where he realized the priest came BACK to the preisethood. WH agreed to attend couple counseling with another well respected psycologist. We went 2 times - second time on OW's b-day come to find out. WH said only reason he went was to get enough courage to tell me the marriage was over. He couldn't even tell me about A after OW's H found out - gave me the standard line - there's no one else - I just don't want to be married. Then WH would see social worker every now and then wheneverhe needed more strength to "get over me." <p>WH did read(skimmed) His Needs/Her Needs - about a month after D-day and he even agreed with the 10 most important needs, but says that it's too late for me - he's in love with someone else and that OW already knows how to meet his needs. WH adn OW even saw the MB website together, but the only thing WH got from it was this really raunchy quote in one of the letters - shows you where his mind is. I started counseling with Steve Harley after 5 sessions with first counselor and WH even called SH at SH's request, but WH refuses to talk to SH again because he says it's a waste of money to talk to SH about saving the marriage when WH doesn't want to. Obviously SH makes too much sense and WH doesn't want to do what he knows is right.<p>At least I am working on myself and making myself the best person I can be. WH on the other hand sees NOTHING wrong with himself so there is nothing to change. If that's his attitude, OW is in for a HUGE surprise, because WH has never fixed his faults that led up to his current feelings and A, which have turned him into a paranoid liar - among other things - and OW will then be stuck with WH because she is D-ing her H and will have no where else to go with her two kids. K

From my last two years of trying to understand why I became a WS, I have two reasons:<p>1. I did something that made my spouse want to hurt me (whether I ever found out about it or not)
2. Whatever I did that made me make my spouse feel that way, I believe my spouse pushed me in that direction.
3. We both were immature enough emotionally to talk and communicate our feelings at the time to each other; thereby causing one of us to look or fall into an EA or PA.<p>And here is my question (I am the BS) ... why is the WS so angry at BS when it was the WS who betrayed/decieved and got caught? Or is that why WS is so mad at me?

From my last two years of trying to understand why I my husband became a WS, I have two reasons:<p>1. I did something that made my spouse want to hurt me (whether I ever found out about it or not)
2. Whatever I did that made me make my spouse feel that way, I believe my spouse pushed me in that direction by ignoring me and concentrating on another woman to fulfill his needs.
3. We both were immature enough emotionally to talk and communicate our feelings at the time to each other; thereby causing him to take the easy way out and look or fall into an EA or PA.<p>And here is my question (... why is my WS so angry at me now when it was the he who betrayed/decieved and got caught? Or is that why my ex-love is so mad at me?

mrrlk,<p>Good question!<p>Originally, I Plan A'd because I wanted to get my H back (foolish!) but after a lot of thought, I decided to Plan A for the sake of my kids. I didn't want them to think I was an angry, bitter person. <p>When he first left, I plan A'd because I wanted him to come home. I married him and didn't want to be divorced. Now I see that my marriage wasn't healthy. But I'm still glad I tried. It made me stop and think about what I really wanted out of life. It gave me time to start healing and to become a more caring person. Plus by being here and reading, I knew that I needed a lot of time before I could be in a healthy relationship. <p>Mitzi [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Mitzi-<p>As always, your thoughts and insight are most always so "Together" you make us all take a second look on how we can do a lttle better.<p>A friend of mine, who visits MB often, commented after reading many of your posts that you are much like the BS of Michael Douglas in "Fatal Attraction"! When I asked to him to elaborate he told me that you like she, carried out a Plan A, Plan B, Plan C, Plan D and a Plan E!...patience and tenacity on pulling out all the stops on finding your back!<p>Hope you and the kids have a great Holiday and Peaceful and Healthy New Year!<p>mr rlk [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]