but first engineers and good mathematicians need to answer this question:<p>What percent is 35 of 7?<p>After there are three answers to confirm the answer, I will pose the encountered dilemma/problem.<p>WIFTTy

Hi W:<p>I hate Math and questions like this-- I know it is a TRICK Q- My husband who thinks the world goes around on numbers says the answer is ::::<p>500%<p>D

good, you answered, maybe you can help me. . . .
and your answer is correct.<p>This was the question i put to 12 yo son preparing for SSATs to give him different ways that the test can phrase questions about percentages. . . .<p>Well, he insisted that the answer was 245% because that is the way he was taught by turning the words into math symbols. Well, I said, lets call mom, the 20 year high school math teacher, and she what she says. . . <p>So we call the X and she says son is correct, the answer is 245%, and that my english is incorrect, and that mathematically, one can't ask the question like this, it just doesn't fit with the way she teachs.<p>I tell her that i put the problem to a 50 year engineer, and he said "500%." I told her to call her best friend's husband who is an engineer and ask him. . . X's response was,
"It is not an engineering question." <p>So i am beginning to hate teachers. See my response to Nina Too under Dabigtrain and "how i spent Thursday night."<p>So HELP! I have more formal math education than X, practical and otherwise, and I keep getting shot down, by son and X.<p> HELP!!!!! <p>different twist to homework question. . . .<p>is it me? why is it always me??????<p>WIFTTy

Wiffty,<p>Briefly looked at the math question as you suggested. I calculated 245%, but whattaIknow, I do not even close to having a degree in math. I am very interested in getting the explanation for 500% but will have to look later, as stbx with be here soon.<p>
Take care,<p>ANNA<p>[ December 07, 2001: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]</p>

Hi,<p>I am a high school math teacher too, but please don't stereotype us as all the same!<p>I agree that the answer is 500% and definitely NOT 245%.<p>BUT the correct form of the question is "What percent of 7 is 35?"<p>Then your son would have solved it by writing the equation x% (7) = 35 and solved it correctly.<p>It's just a little thing, after all.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by peppermint:
<strong>Hi,<p>I am a high school math teacher too, but please don't stereotype us as all the same!<p>I agree that the answer is 500% and definitely NOT 245%.<p>BUT the correct form of the question is "What percent of 7 is 35?"<p>Then your son would have solved it by writing the equation x% (7) = 35 and solved it correctly.<p>It's just a little thing, after all.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Now that makes perfect sense. You are a very good teacher!!! Thanks! I understand where I goofed.<p>ANNA

Is the correct form because
it is easy to translate into math symbols?<p>If the form is so important, why did everyone get the correct answer except X, the math teacher?<p>or because of the incorrect grammar?<p>If grammar is not incorrect, then the correct form is a convenience for math teaching. . . <p>all i did was change the location of the prepositional phrase, which is allowed in grammar.<p>Should we not be taught to understand all possibilities? and not just one that is just easy to get the answer?<p>WIFTTy<p>[ December 07, 2001: Message edited by: WhenIfindthetime ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by WhenIfindthetime:
<strong>Is the correct form because
it is easy to translate into math symbols?<p>or because of the incorrect grammar?<p>If grammar is not incorrect, then the correct form is a convenience for math teaching. . . <p>all i did was change the location of the prepositional phrase, which is allowed in grammar.<p>WIFTTy</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Wiffty,<p>Again my no degree may show here but I would think it would change the answer just like this equation would also change.....<p>10-5=5 but 5-10=-5<p>ANNA

Anna, <p>you changed math, I changed english. . . .different set of rules. . . .<p>if the answer is 500% and X who is a math teacher says the answer is 245%, what do i do with kid and X?<p>I refuse to teach the kid something that i know is wrong. . . . . and i refuse to teach them only one way of looking at or understanding problems.<p>WIFTTy<p>[ December 07, 2001: Message edited by: WhenIfindthetime ]<p>[ December 07, 2001: Message edited by: WhenIfindthetime ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by WhenIfindthetime:
<strong>Anna, <p>you changed math, I changed english. . . .different set of rules. . . .<p>do if the answer is 500% and X who is a math teacher says the answer is 245%, what do i do with kid and X?<p>I refuse to teach the kid something that i know is wrong. . . . .<p>WIFTTy</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Wifft,<p>I was waiting for that exact answer.<p>How 'bout this one....<p>It's like saying in grammar, "I and he went to the party."<p>ANNA<p>P.S.<p>Also, the way you phrased it Wifft, I got your wife's answer. The way the math teacher rephrased it I got your answer.<p>I keep editing this post...I think the key word in the sentence is the usage of the word "of".<p>[ December 07, 2001: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]<p>[ December 07, 2001: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]</p>

Anna,<p>how do you explain everyone else that got the 500% answer with my phrasing?<p>and Peppermint's statement <p>definately NOT 245%<p>to my wording.<p>The point of my discussion as mentioned was different ways of asking the same question, and how to set up the equation to get the correct answer to all possible ways to ask the question.<p>If peppermint statement is correct, and all the engineers, how can everyone but X get the correct answer and X come up with a different answer to teach the kid? as well as saying that my phraseology can't be used, and changes the entire answer, when it appears that everyone is in agreement with me?<p>how do i handle this with son?<p>[ December 07, 2001: Message edited by: WhenIfindthetime ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by WhenIfindthetime:
<strong>Anna,<p>how do you explain everyone else that got the 500% answer with my phrasing?<p>and Peppermint's statement <p>definately NOT 245%<p>to my wording.<p>The point of my discussion as mentioned was different ways of asking the same question, and how to set up the equation to get the correct answer to all possible ways to ask the question.<p>If peppermint statement is correct, and all the engineers, how can everyone but X get the correct answer and X come up with a different answer to teach the kid? as well as saying that my phraseology can't be used, and changes the entire answer, when it appears that everyone is in agreement with me?<p>how do i handle this with son?<p>[ December 07, 2001: Message edited by: WhenIfindthetime ]</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Wiffty,<p>You lucked out. Kevco just came on IM and this may be a first. YOU ARE RIGHT!<p>Kevco explained where yes the key word is "of". <p>Okay, key words are "of" "is" <p>I was not considering you were keeping these intact.<p>is being on top.<p>of being on bottom.<p>Either way you phrase it, you get 500<p>So your way....<p>What percent is 35 of 7?<p>35/7 <p>Math Teachers way....<p>What percent of 7 is 35.<p>35/7 <p>Both are correct.<p>Yippee.<p>AND I'm just glad I "got it". [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>ANNA<p>[ December 07, 2001: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]</p>

Wiffty,<p>I said you were right????
[img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] <p>No response.....<p>ANNA

Anna,<p>thank you for sticking with it, and asking other people to confirm the answer. . . . I wish X would do that. . . <p>and you learned something new! good for you. . . you are never too old to learn. . . <p>Sorry for the slow response, busy posting new thread, but how do i approach son that mom is not right, and that dad is right?<p>that is where the real help is needed, the math is just the symptom. . . . ongoing forever, but just the symptom. . . .<p>[ December 07, 2001: Message edited by: WhenIfindthetime ]</p>

wiffty,<p>Sometimes coming from others and him reading these posts one by one would help...<p>I would print copy these post on note pad, delete your name and show him what everyone said.....That may be easier for him to accept mom is not always correct, just as you aren't either. We are all human and error.<p>Wiffty, if he doesn't get it or says you are wrong, accept it and let it go. It's one problem.<p>Some day, maybe not this year, but he'll realize it's correct. If you let it go he will respect you for that.<p>
Take care,<p>ANNA

that's what i did, <p>i said we have to keep going, to cover the material, and maybe in X's quest to find the answer, she will come back and help us. . . <p>i am fine with agreeing to disagree, i just hope that s finally learns there are other right ways, that's more important to me, and was my original goal.<p>WIFTTy<p>ok, my fingers are tired. . . . my brain is tired, i was successful at my day job today, time to clean up for the weekend.<p>have a good weekend.

Wiffy.. <p>OH you guys are soooo smart!! YOU put me to shame! CAN I hire you to tutor my KIDS???? <p>You are correct when you said that Math or the discussion/ interpretation of the issue(s) is the REAL problem.<p>AND i love ANNA's suggestion--this would give you mileage with your son.. without pointing a negative finger at mom.<p>Math/ I are not very good friends.. so the answer to me isn't the bigest issue.. <p>It is what is underneath--Your desire to show your child other ways to think through the problem-- and your's wife's desire to show you that you are wrong- either in the set up of the problem.. ie language- or in the mechanic/operation of the problem-- thereby making her the good guy/ the expert, and by deduction you are the wrong guy- or the less knowledgable.<p>Pepperiment's answer was great.. and i also think it points to the way people think about situations-- psychologically speaking-- <p>IN some areas of life-- there ARE right / wrong answers-- such as in math-- which is a literal science! <p>THESE answers are JUST right-- but the METHODS used at arriving at these answers can be varied-- <p>( For instance Division-- long / short but you still get the same answer-- just a different process.)<p>There are certain absolutes in life--such as
1+1 = 2------ in math----and in relationships-- when you lie the end result is broken trust.<p>We need to accept that life is filled with certain absolutes-- and then realize that there are different methods for arriving at the same conclusion-- neither method is right / or wrong.. as long as you can get to the "right" answer.<p>
D

W:<p>YOUr question to ANna about how do you explain everyone else getting the correct answer... <p>I can only speak for me-- I automatically changed the wording-- then ck it with my husband.. who thought at first it was a negative number.. due to the wording.. then he goes.. nah, the guy has the wording mixed up... so that is how he came up with it.<p>He is used to me making mistakes like that I guess... cuz as I said.. Math and I on two different planes. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>D

ITherapist,<p>I agree, but when you were married to someone who has said, "I like to be right!" looking at various options gets difficult and generally discouraged. . .<p>I have learned to just let most of it go, but when the answer comes back wrong from her, and i am told i am wrong because of her teaching method, and the teacher will only believe teachers, then i get frustrated, as there are more knowledgeable people other than high school teachers. Telling me i am right, but generally the form i am asking will not be asked, so i am asking something that has a low probability of beeing seen, I am OK with that.<p>Also, having been married to someone who hears silence as agreement, then i have learned if i don't speak up, i am condoning the topic of discussion.<p>And, having been married to someone who has said, "Your success makes me feel very inadequate," i will not stop being me, just to make someone else be happy. She told me that her dad was fun until her mom beat it out of him emotionally.<p>So i just get extremely frustrated to see this new i know everythign teacher person emerge, who is turning out kids into similar people.<p>WIFTTy

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by WhenIfindthetime:
<strong>but first engineers and good mathematicians need to answer this question:<p>What percent is 35 of 7?<p>After there are three answers to confirm the answer, I will pose the encountered dilemma/problem.<p>WIFTTy</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Tom,<p>I know this is a "mute" problem now, but I caught myself still thinking on it as I was getting ready to leave this morning.<p>First, I'd like to say, I'm sure you know this already, but I wouldn't call "mom" anymore for questions...I'd move on and let him get it wrong before calling. Unless of course he suggest it. I'd keep "mom" out of all conversations. <p>We all make this mistake, I do am learning this.<p>Secondly, if a similar problem like this ever comes up again, you could have him check his answer by reversing the equation. If, last night, I would have checked my answer I would have saw right away it was totally wrong. <p>You can reverse the equation for 500% and check your answer, but in the equation if you reverse the symbols and come up with the answer 245%, once you check this by reversing the equation, the answer 245% is impossible, your answer shows incorrect.<p>Just some more thoughts...<p>BTW, on another subject, it takes a "big" man to apologize, I think it's cool you apologized to Jacky.<p>I am now running late, so see ya later.<p>ANNA