I'm in a difficult situation. I'm married to a man who can be gentle, kind, loving on one hand, but a raving, screaming, maniac on the other. He's Mr. Nice Guy a lot of the time, unless he's crossed (or stressed). At those time, he can turn into a different person -- one I don't like and am afraid of. He has backed me in a corner, screamed profanities at me, and once pulled me from the bed by my arm. I have tried talking with him, but he just doesn't seem to "get" the extent of his rage. He thinks it's normal anger and not good for him to keep bottled up inside. I've tried telling him what it does to me, but to no avail. I should not do anything to set him off. These rages usually begin over something trivial. <p>After it's all over, he becomes very meek and it's almost like he's the one who was hurt and I'm supposed to sympathize with him. He twists everything around to make it look like I made this happen. I begin to doubt myself and the situation. Guess it's why I've stayed in this marriage for six years, although I just can't do it anymore.<p>I asked him to get help or I'm leaving. He doesn't think he needs it so his answer was "No". Please share your experiences in situations like this. I don't know what to think and I'm really confused at this point.

Helga,<p>I could have wrote everything you said and it would have described my soon to be ex (stbx).<p>He is usually kind, nice, laid back, and gentle, but then he goes into rages unexpectedly. <p>If he won't get help, you can't help him, he's a time bomb waiting to explode, and you will probably be the target. Don't put yourself in a dangerous situation. I think you should go, but I would tell him with other people present or write a note and leave. I also think you should tell him when he gets the help he needs you will be waiting for him, but until then you will stay away. I wish I would have years ago, before the last incident occured.<p>Take care,<p>ANNA

((((Helga))))<p>I can't advise you what to do. I can just suggest that if you have some time, you can read some posts by my former 'self', TLC, because I have been in an abusive relationship.<p>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=34&t=001111<p>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=34&t=002069<p>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=34&t=002524<p>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=34&t=003361<p>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=34&t=003573<p>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=34&t=003971<p>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=34&t=004342<p>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=34&t=004748<p>
Counseling can do wonderful things, IF the abuser takes responsibility for his/her behavior and wants to change.<p>Stay safe.<p>[ January 02, 2002: Message edited by: Princess Buttercup ]</p>

For starters..Your NOT CRAZY!!! And YOU ARE NOT to blame nor are YOU responsible for HIS anger NOR
his rages!!<p>If you have a women's abuse shelter..I'd advise you contact them..just call and talk to a counselor..<p>A question..does alcohol play a factor in his rages? It's not an excuse but..it does contribute..<p>Get yourself into counseling and work on you..because it sounds like your self-esteem
is shot (when you doubt yourself..and begin to think his rages are your fault..and that you did something to cause it) there is a big problem..<p>Ask yourself..<p>Do I deserve to be treated this way?<p>If Not, then why do I stay and tolerate it?<p>If so..then why do I think I deserve to be treated this way??<p>Do you have children? If so how do they deal w/ their anger? (they will learn the same patterns)<p>If you say your going to leave..THEN LEAVE!! If you just threaten..and don't do anything..it will only get worse..

I am going through the EXACT same thing!! I was injured and had to go to the ER, so I am leaving and not looking back!!!<p>I can't tell you what to do, but I can tell you that with out counseling it wont get better. Once it gets physical and you stay, they think that it is alright to keep up the abuse. This is the 2nd time it's happened to me and the last. <p>I know how scared you must be, because I am too. He is great ans sweet when he is not in a rage, but when he starts up, he yells, throws things and recently grabbed me so hard that I could not use my right hand for a week.<p>The choice is yours to make, but protect yourself at all cost.

Helga,<p>I just wanted to add this. Usually each time the abuse gets a little more severe. <p>Even though we have split up, my stbx still doesn't fully think he did anything wrong. He started accepting it when I first told him to leave but then now he's found a counselor who has been married 4 or 5 times, is on all kind of medications for his own rages, admits to attacking his own wives and has convinced my stbx he is did a wife beater. So I suspect he'll never get the help he needs, but at least I'm out of it.<p>Take care and keep us informed.<p>ANNA

Unfortunately, I am well qualified to speak on this subject.<p>I think a lot of men suffer from this. I know my dad did. I know my step-dad did. It seems to get better with age. It seems like it is built into our genes from a time when a man had to be in a totally angry state in order to hunt to survive. It is pure rage without thought. It is an incredibly powerful state. He cannot understand what you are feeling unless you tell him.<p>It is like an Incredible Hulk/Dr. Banner, kind of thing. The rage comes and, until he is left alone to settle down, he will continue to rage. Once all is quiet, he will settle down. He just has to get it out of his system. Once the chemicals (adrenaline and others) start coursing through his veins, it just has to run its course.<p>He does not grasp the depths of his rage. I think he will be a little shocked if he breaks things, but won't understand the gravity of it. You must tell him that you are afraid of him when he does it and you cannot be around him when he does it. I was NEVER physical with my XW, but your husband is. I only saw my rage as anger, not abuse. Granted, I punched holes in walls and doors and broke things. She broke things too. So, it was like, what's the big deal?<p>When the anger comes, send him to his cave (like in Men Are From Mars/Women Are From Venus). You MUST leave him alone. Any attempt to help him will only fuel his fire. It is like his primitive brain is in control, not his higher brain. The primitive brain does not understand reason. It only understands force.<p>Remember it is probably not about you. It is a demon inside. Maybe it is hard-wired into our primitive brains? The monster gets out sometimes.<p>I am a very logical person and I have difficulty controlling it.<p>I was also suffering from panic attacks. I have learned to think through them and make them go away. Score one for me eh?<p>I'm still working on the demon inside.<p>Be firm with him. Let him know that you love him, but he scares you when he is enraged. (really reaching, but he might get this point) Tell, him that you are a tender flower who depends upon him for security and that you, like a flower, are crushed when he rages.<p>He must learn that you are both a team and the team will fail if one player is berating the other for any reason.<p>Until he gets the idea that you won't be around if he continues to do it, I don't think he will see it as a problem.<p>Treat his problem as a medical problem, rather than a character issue. He must be able to save face.<p>Kevin

Just wanted to thank everyone for their responses. I have read them all a couple of times -- they are like a lifeline. I have talked with my husband and asked him if he's willing to get into some type of anger management counseling. I also offered to go to marriage counseling. His answer is "No" so to me that means our marriage is not important enough to him to try to save. I just can't accept his actions any longer regardless of whether he can help it or not. I feel like I have to think of myself and my well-being now. As a teenager, a very tragic event occurred to me and my family which left it's own emotional scars. I've been through enough and I don't want this for the rest of my life. <p>My husband is still acting hurt and betrayed like he is the victim in this scenario. I don't know if I posted this earlier, but he's been married five times. He is very good at playing the victim and was very convincing that all of his previous wives had betrayed him. As I look back, there were some "red flags", but unfortunately, I believed everything he told me. I had gone through a devasting divorce myself and was pretty vulnerable and naive.<p>I just can't play that Men Are From Mars Women Are From Venus game right now. I understand that men are different and deal with things differently, but there is just no excuse for abusive behavior. When my husband reaches that uncontrollable stage and backs me in a corner or itiminates me, I know not to say or do anything at that point. I know it just might push him over the edge. I don't want to feel that way anymore. <p>So, at this point, I'm trying to pull facts and figures together which will allow me to survive on my own. Thank goodness for a small inheritance from my parents or my finacial situation wouldn't look so good. I guess that might be one reason why some women stay long after they should have left. But the main reason, I think, is that we keep thinking that our husband's will change and that each incident is the last.

Helga,<p>I am sooo sorry you have to go through this. I know a lot of what you are going through. I am glad you are going to leave. It's better to have little money than risk your safety.<p>I think Kevin's (father of 1) situation is different from the men we know. Kevin uses walls as punching bags, our spouses used us as punching bags. Sometimes, it comes on so unexpectedly there is no time for us to duck. <p>I tried, not saying anything to my stbx and backing off, doesn't work, he wanted to rage at me. I tried several approaches to my husbands rages, while I found some that worked better, I realized with the last attack there is absolutely nothing I can do to prevent from being hurt by him, other than getting out of the relationship.<p>Please take care of you. You can make it on your own. If your husband gets the help he needs then you can go back to him. I would suggest though you let him have a few months to be consistent with counseling, I know too well how easily it is for them to promise you the moon to get you back, just to go back to their old ways.<p>Take care,<p>ANNA

Helga, <p>Father of 1's post kinda hit me..because, NO he didn't HIT his wife..but, even hitting walls is abusive..It still inflicts that same fear inside..but you wonder..when WILL HE hit You???<p>Not will he hit you again..But WHEN??? What will be the trigger that makes him cross that line??<p>the verbal abuse, the wall's, then the spouse and or kids..i causes all the same fears and emotions..<p>My stbx didn't 'hit' me physically..he did hit me verbally, emotionally and he did hit holes in walls..and it always left me wondering..when will "I" be next?? What if a wall isn't readily available?? And I disagree about it being 'built' into their genes..it's a learned behavior..or a non-learned behavior to be more precise..they NEVER learned HOW to deal with their anger appropriately..and anger management classes don't always work..especially if they are or feel they
are 'forced' to go..<p>Helga, but I agree totally..remove yourself from the situation..PROTECT YOURSELF!!!! And if he thinks he's the victim..oh well..let him think that..at least you'll be out of the situation..
and safe..

Hi Helga,<p>I've been out of town for a few days so that's why you haven't heard from me. I'm selling my house and moving back "home" (another state) where I am also buying a house, so it's hectic.<p>I'm glad you posted this. I knew there were many people dealing with this here and it seems you've gotten some good insight (and hopefully you'll make some friends too). It's hard to understand why he wouldn't want to seek help especially when the marriage is in danger. Maybe he's just used to getting divorced by now, who knows. Just remember none of this is your fault and you need to worry about you now, and staying out of the way of his outbursts.<p>I'll be thinking about you and will put in a word for you "upstairs", take care.

Helga wrote: My husband is still acting hurt and betrayed like he is the victim in this scenario. I don't know if I posted this earlier, but he's been married five times. He is very good at playing the victim and was very convincing that all of his previous wives had betrayed him. As I look back, there were some "red flags", but unfortunately, I believed everything he told me.<p>When love is young, it is SO easy to overlook those red flags, isn't it? I've been there too. My X is still convinced that we divorced because of ME and my FOO (family of origin) and our ahem, in his opinion "mental problems" and that it had NOTHING to do with his violence, which he feels was at all times justified, or outright denies happened. He will go into his next relationship feeling that he did nothing wrong, tell her about how "psycho" I was, and turn from charming into abusive when she doesn't meet his needs.<p>Helga wrote: So, at this point, I'm trying to pull facts and figures together which will allow me to survive on my own. Thank goodness for a small inheritance from my parents or my finacial situation wouldn't look so good. I guess that might be one reason why some women stay long after they should have left. But the main reason, I think, is that we keep thinking that our husband's will change and that each incident is the last.<p>I'd like to add to that theory: We believe them when they say it won't happen again, and we think that if we just love them enough, they will change. We believe them when they say we can't live without them, that no one will love us the way they do, that we can't make it on our own. We start to minimize the abuse just like they do.<p>It took an unspeakable act of (non-physical) abuse by my X and his accomplice to drive me out once and for all, with NO place to live, NO money, NO job, NO car, NO lawyer, and on top of that he kidnapped our kids. Within a month I had all of those things, with help from God and family and friends. Don't let things like finances keep you from leaving if you are being abused. Things work themselves out.<p>There isn't a Plan "X" for saving an abusive marriage. The abuse ends, or the relationship ends. Stay safe.<p>[ December 11, 2001: Message edited by: Princess Buttercup ]</p>

Helga,<p>If you need a friend, please feel free to e-mail me. we both could use the support. I am having my husband served this week. <p>Take care.
amajor547@netscape.net

I wanted everyone to know that I am taking my first step tomorrow to bring about some positive change in my life. I am applying for a second job to supplement my income so financial concerns won't be an issue in our separting.<p>We are still living in the same house and are "cordial", but mostly avoiding one another. In the past, I have always been able to forgive him after a couple of days, but I don't have it in me anymore. I feel strong in my commitment to not tolerate his abuse any longer. I think he is waiting me out, thinking I will come around in a few days. I almost get the impression he comes around me for a few minutes when I get from work just to gage my mood.<p>As days go by, my emotional attachment to him seems to be lessening. When I feel that I might falter, I make myself remember his rage and the words he screamed in my face. I gave him the option of seeking help, but he's made no effort nor do I think he intends to. I'm not sure it would work anyway, since I believe he would only be doing it to appease me. He truly doesn't understand the extent of his anger or accept that it's a problem. <p>Kathy, I am glad you're okay and it was good to hear from you again. The support from all of you has been wonderful, and I know it is helping me stay focused on what I need to do.

Whew---this is heavy stuff! I felt my stomach tensing up even as I have read this-- also b/c it hits close to home. <p>The issue of it being part of the primitive brain thing-- nah--don't think so.. it is LEARNED behavior--as TR said! <p>BUTTTTTTT.. there are some disorders..for example such as Intermitten Explosive Disorder tht does have chemical component /or deficit. <p>The meds that are taken for that-- only control the impulse to rage-- actually lengthens the fuse-- but it doesn't take it away. My husband is on this--and has tried different ones-- <p>OVer the years.. I had finally said-- NO MORE--- he is a gentle loving man, with a Jekell/Hyde personality-- never knowing when it will hit. Our last stop here is the meds.. <p>For you Helga-- this 5 time marriage guy-- is scarey. Definite red flags! Saying enough--- is the way I would encourage you to go--also.. <p>The victim behavior-- or blaming stuff-- or acting like the hurt/wounded puppy-- is nothing short of his own sense of shame incriminating him / in his behavior-- and him using that to manipulate you into making his bad shameful feelings go away.<p>Let it go--It doesn't belong to YOU! Honor the fear you feel inside-- remember the pain-- and make a committment as you have done, to put distance betwn you. He needs help-- and I am sure you are not the first wife to notice this.<p>One case in point-- with my H, although it is a little different in my case to some degree-- one thing I decided was not to cover anymore of it up-Like with family / friends... that included not making excuses for his behavior--<p>We had an incident earlier this year-- twice in front of family / friends..when he hadn't taken responsibility to take his meds---and his monster snuck out--- <p>I could have died of embarassment-- but it gave our friends/ family a new look into this side of him. ( they have always looked at him as the class clown.. cuz he is soo funny, and entertaining)<p>He decided that almost 2 years ago, that this needed to be worked on--after I made plans to leave, and gave him conditions that he had to honor-- if I stayed.<p>My decision after a couple of months of watching him get his meds straigten out--was to stay-----but it was very conditional--- as long as he is willing to keep addressing it with professionals to get the help he needs with this--then I stay-- still trying to give to the marriage.<p>Since he is willing to work on it-- and continues to do so--then I will keep working with him-- but--- he is clear that this issue and another issue must be corrected. I am never fully assured that this monster man won't pop out again-- I do keep an eye on that--and plan accordingly......<p>It is a hard decision-- but one that I can live w/.. at this point. <p>Blessing to you-- as you try to find a path of safety from this person... and be confident that this is not your fault.. it lies within him-- and it is not controlled or activated by what you do / don't do...<p>D

In response to the last post, I felt like I was reading about my own husband. I have done a very good job covering up for him too. He's a really funny, social person and my family all adore him. They've never seen the darker side, except once. "The monster did creep out" in front of my daughter. She was speechless not knowing what to think. It was over nothing -- the fact that I was trying to greet her as we arrived at her house and didn't hear something he was trying to say to me at the same time. He flew into this rage calling me ugly names and I felt truly embarrassed and ashamed for my daughter to see it. His rages are intermittent also, so as weeks go by between each incident it's easy to slip into a pattern of disbelief. I begin to doubt whether the incident was really as bad as it seemed at the time, etc.<p>The other night when he lost control and was screaming and shouting at me while I was sitting at the computer, I didn't look directly at him, but I did notice his hands were in fists. He has never hit me, but I can sense that he might be capable of crossing that line if pushed. I tend to freeze at that point and say/do nothing to "fuel the fire".<p>As I posted last night, I am taking the first steps today to set my plan in motion to get out of the marriage. Since he is in that "whipped puppy dog" state, I don't feel threatened right now and it is buying me time to make some life-changing decisions.

I am soooo proud of you!!! I know it is not easy, but you will start to feel more in control of your life as time goes on. I am actually starting to feel better. I covered for my stbx too. He's very social so people think he is such a sweetie, but that is starting to change. I finally told my pastor about the abuse. He told me to get out of it, which confirms my action to leave. He tried to counsel him but he missed his sessions because he "over slept." Sure.
Keep up the good work. We are all here for you.

Hi Helga,<p>Yes, I sympathise, because my STBX is of the same social, popular, charming variety that you DARE not cross, or the rage results. It's been my approach for years rather to "keep the Peace", and not to "take her on". <p>In the middle of a discussion post her A, and refusing to reconcile, I eventually got tired of her circular arguments, and told her that if she was not willing to listen, she should go and talk to herself, I wasn't listening any longer.<p>She flew into a violent rage, and actually attacked me physically, hitting a kicking wildly, nearly grabing a hockey-stick nearby, and hitting me with THAT.<p>The 1st post of yours describes almost EXACTLY the apparent remorse afterwards. ( they're not really sorry, they're just afraid they may have gone too far)....they can always "charm" their way back into favor with you....until the next time, that is. You should have paid attention to the warnings you felt. This is a bad deal, kid. He gets help, or you get out.<p>Much love
Muzohead

The only hitting that has been done is my WS XW hitting me. Does anyone think that society would also view this as physical abuse?<p>Kevin

I hope there's someone out there tonight. I want to share a letter my husband left lying on the bed for me when I got home from work. He works at night and I won't see him again until tomorrow evening. I need your thoughts and encouragement to stay strong. You know I am resolved to him getting help or it's over. He says at first, "Let me start off by saying that I love you very much and you know that deep down inside." (To me, that is not the issue here.) He goes on to say "I don't have any faith in counseling at all. I don't think they can do any good. Most of the ones I know of are screwed up worse than we are. They don't know what's going on in our lives." (To me, it sounds like he is still not accepting responsibility for his actions. To my knowledge, he doesn't know any counselors either.) Next, he tells me "It comes down to we are both the way we are and that is that. There's no use trying to change it. All we do when we change things is mess it up worse. (He just will not accept there is a problem. I feel he is trying to transfer part of the blame to me still. I don't think I've ever even called him a bad name in anger) Lastly, he says, "If we can't accept each other the way we are, then we have to do something about it. I don't want to leave, but if that's what it takes to make you happy again, I'll just have to go." (So I guess he's saying I need to learn to live with his temper/verbal abuse or it's over.) Seems like I have my answer, but please let me have your thoughts and encouragement.