Hello everyone.<p>My H is playing games. I went into plan B a while ago, and I specifically requested that all communication be by email. I said I did not want to speak with him on the phone.<p>Since then there have been three times when he has ignored this request. Two of the times, he hangs up after calling the kids, and then ten or so minutes later calls again. I don't expect it is him, so I answer, and then get sucked in to talking to him, because I don't want to be 'rude'.<p>However two nights ago he did this again, and I just let fly. I said everything awful I could, and told him that I knew about one std he gave me a while back (he denied) and just told him NOT to call. But all with a broken, probably nasty, hurt voice. Then he said he just wants what is best for the kids now...........so I hung up.<p>I fumed for a while, then I thought, hey, so what? He doesn't care. But then I got to wondering WHY he is doing this. I certainly gave him the fuel for his fire; now he can say I am bad and he is justified in leaving.<p>So I wrote ANOTHER email to him and again I said don't call....don't want to chat until it is completely over with OW. And so far no response. But I don't expect one.<p>Now last night I chatted to his sister, and I discovered (no surprise) that he has been lying to them about what I say. He lives OS and is 'planning' to be home sometime in January, but hasn't given me a date. He did suggest two dates, and I wrote back saying one was during school time. No reply.<p>So his sister asked him when he was coming home and he said "Well I had it all planned then Jacky told me I couldn't have the kids then because she is taking them on a holiday." Absolute and utter BS! I cannot understand this.<p>The he asked her how the kids were. He said "Are they all happy and smiling?" She is like "WHAT?" She told him they weren't, and backed up everything I wrote in an email to him at his request. It was detailed, how the kids are having difficulties coping, etc. But he says to the sister, "Oh yes, Jacky said something about that." like I had glossed it over. I set the SIL straight on these lies, btw. She and I are good friends, and she said to me he is a textbook case.<p>So I guess I am venting, but I want to know, what is this stuff? I know it is the fog, but hey! He is lying about me and how informed I keep him, he is not respecting my boundaries and he is not making any commitment to seeing the kids on a given date.<p>What the heck do I do with this?

Hi Nina,<p>So sorry about the games your SJHOXH is playing (Stupid Jerk Husband Or X Husband). They like that control, even when they no longer deserve it.<p>My suggestions to you:
1) Get an answering machine and screen your calls.
2) OR Get one of those caller ID devices and screen your calls.
3) OR Get voice mail and have the kids return his call if he calls.
4) OR Get the kids their own phone line and don't answer it....just let them answer it.<p>Do one of the above. Take back your power, girl! Don't LET him control you in any way, shape or form. And don't tell him you're doing it. Just don't accept any communication from him except e-mails...pure and simple.<p>Keep the faith!!
Aloha,
Ms.O

Hi Nina too I haven’t spoken to you in a while. It’s me, weakmale/purpletang, but I forgot my password so I had to change my name again. I hate the way they don’t respect your boundaries or emotions. I was really having a hard time with my situation so I decided to get on with my life. I’m much happier now but now she wants to come home. I told her I’d think about it but I’m not sure if I’m up to all the work. There was a time I would have given anything to have her back but now I’m happy and most of the anger has gone away. Anyway, I just want to say HI and I hope everything works out for you. Don’t let him get you worked up and if does just remember how good of a person you are.

Nina too - I had a few thoughts about lying that I wanted to share. <p>Lying.. <p>*Denies a connection. If he does have feelings for you, he can help keep them at a distance by not telling you the truth. Intimacy, closeness is based on the truths we tell to each other. He can help himself continue to justify his actions; justification is key to "these people".<p>
*Image. It gives him a tool, he thinks, to control how he's percieved. He can manipulate information in order to present a favorable image of himself. Which keeps people at a distance, since all closeness is based on the truths we tell. He's painting himself into a corner. Betrayers also become adept at compartmentalizing; seperating, segmenting their lives and relationships. <p>
*Control. He is losing control, but may feel he can continue to influence you and the people or events around him by the "information" he spews...<p>Harriet Lerner says " the capacity for self deception is enourmous..." his truth is different from yours, but he may be choosing not to look at anything close to any truth. As a way of living with himself. After all, what kind of man would... he may not be able to handle that, likely hasn't addressed it internally, and is also attempting to justify his actions to himself. Lying may help him run from who he is...<p>After all, this isn't about you. It's about him...<p>My .02<p>
Dan<p>[ December 11, 2001: Message edited by: Family Man ]</p>

Hey Nina-<p>Hang in there. Your WH is so textbook! He is totally in the fog and therefor looking for ways to transfer his guilt onto you and to also play control games. Stick to your guns girl! You are doing so well, don't let him bring you down.<p>Keep in touch!<p>K

Stick to your plan jackie, do not let him control or manipulate you. For some reason he is trying to stay connected with the phone and trying to stay in denial over things you have said to him. I think you said it best he is still in the foGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

Thanks for the excellent advice, everyone, particularly Dan. I was seeking some understanding of the reasons why he may do this, and you covered it quite well, I think! I will not be letting him trick me again.....I had some good advice from a friend, and all it requires is not answering the phone.....I have a message service, so this is not an inconvenience.<p>This behaviour really threw me for a loop, but I talked to my C about it, and she was talking about his inner child trying to seek approval from me, which he is not going to get. Testing the waters, so he doesn't have to feel guilty, and as long as I won't talk, he will feel guilt. Don't know about that bit, sooner or later, he willjust get plain angry.<p>I have finally made an appointment to see an attorney regarding settlement of assets, as my C thinks he will try to hide some when he comes home for his holiday. That is a very hard step for me, but I have to do it.<p>He called the kids again last night, and after I was just waiting for the phone to ring again, which it did not, until about 9pm. I let it ring, and it was a friend of mine.........so this is the best way to go.<p>HEY HAPPY AGAIN! Have you been posting recently? It sounds like you are doing well, and I would love to have more of an update of your story, as would a few others who were posting to you. Good to hear from you!<p>Thank you again everyone!<p>Love and light,<p>Jacky

Hey Nina ~<p>I just want to point out that your boundaries are your responsiblity to keep and respect...not your H's.<p>When we try to force other people to "respect" our boundaries it's called control.<p>Screen your calls, politely say Goodbye and hang up if he catches you.

Hey Nina,<p>Well, I don't think your trying to control your husband in anyway, but you are learning to not expect him to respect your boundaries and need support from us to help you find the strength to not give in to his munipulations.<p>I think you are doing awesome girl.<p>BR, had a good point on the answering machine and hanging up on him. Sometimes they just trick us and it becomes very frustrating for us.<p>Hang in there lady!<p>ANNA<p>[ December 12, 2001: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]</p>

Bramble Rose,<p>Yes I am responsible for setting boundaries and upholding them, and those I choose to set boundaries towards OUGHT to respect that, but H doesn't. If he was coming to my house when I had asked him not to, that would be harrassment. The phone call thing is the same, and disrespectful on his part.<p>But as I said before I am just not going to answer the phone when I know he is awake in South Africa. And if I do by chance, I will hang up.<p>Thank you Anna for your encouraging words. I try to do this the right way, but it gets SOOOOOOOO hard sometimes!<p>Love and light everyone.<p>[ December 12, 2001: Message edited by: Nina too ]</p>

Hi Jacky,<p>If he had any clue what boundaries were, well I guess you wouldn't be where you are right now, would you? He DOESN'T live with boundaries, so why in the world would he have any respect for yours? He's a sorry case.<p>Lying to his sister? He's gotten by for years making a life out of lying, why would he stop now. It's engrained in him, just like mine. I actually think they cannot tell the difference between the truth and their lies. Like they just have to say a lie once and it becomes truth to them. Oh, and he knows you have the upper hand by living in close proximity to his family. He's just trying to spin it his way to save face. It's just another way he has no respect for you in my estimation.<p>As far as seeing the kids, well, that's just sad. So many of us have that problem, altho he IS in another country (but I guess he should have thought about that when he was doinking whats-her-butt). Woo, Sorry! Such language from me tonight! I just start to fume when I hear about all their stupid games.<p>[ December 12, 2001: Message edited by: weirded out ]</p>

Jacky, <p>I would like to clarify something for you. I think what BR was trying to say to you was that you can not establish "boundaries" for your husband...you can only establish boundaries around you. <p>You can not control whether he will call you or not. He may go completely off his rocker and call you every night twenty times!! You can't stop him!!!! BUT you can control you, and if you establish a boundary around you that you will not talk to him on the phone, then there are three steps to take:<p>1) Tell him the boundary, bearing in mind it is a boundary around you--not him, and tell him what the consequence of crossing this boundary will be. Be specific (not vague). For example, in this instance it might be, "I am establishing a boundary around me that I will not talk to you on the phone or accept your phone calls. The consequence for crossing this boundary will be that I will hang up."<p>2) Warn him when he either IS or has just crossed your boundary. For example, in this instance it might sound like, "I told you I would not talk to you on the phone or accept your phone calls. You are crossing my boundary." Give him the chance to act appropriately and respect your boundary. <p>If he does not respect your boundary (as we suspect he will not) then...<p>3) Allow him to bear the consequence of his choice. Remember, Jacky, no matter how much he tries to lay blame on you and make you feel bad, he CHOSE to cross your boundary. If he calls you on the phone--especially ten minutes AFTER being done talking on the phone with the kids--he is CLEARLY disregarding your boundary. Warn him, give him the chance to make the respectful choice, and if he does not, enforce the consequence. HANG UP. Don't feel rude. You told him and warned him! He chose!

The rather delicate trick here, is that you can not force him or make him stop calling you, and it sometimes sounds like that is what you are trying to say... "How can I make my H stop calling me?" YOU CAN'T!!! No matter how you argue or try to convince him, you can not make the choice for him--you can only make the choice for you. He may choose to ignore your boundary--or try to ignore it, anyway. The real question is "How can I enforce the boundary I have set for myself?" It is your job to establish YOUR boundary and enforce it. Does that make sense? <p>Hope so!<p>CJ

Hi Jacky,<p>Just wanted to say, I know where you are at.
I have been sucked in talking with H while in plan B. Luckily it's happenend only once, but anyway. It's so hard not to talk, and not to LB. That call made it even more clear for me, plan B was a right choice.
How can you hang up politely??!!!
I don't want to add one more thing on Hs list of justifications me being a difficult W, and not wanting to talk. Can't win , have to take a risk. ILs are getting annoyed too, that I can't communicate with H. And on the top of that there's Hs ex W who gets along so wonderfully with H, why can't I be like that, and goes on...
Maybe I should plan B everyone, who's got something to do with H?!!Getting tired of this.
Earlier this year, when I didn't have caller ID, I asked friends call me once , then hang up and call again, and I would know from the break in ringing tone it wasn't H.
Surely the WSs go through a sort of withdrawal after years of talking to their Ss. They have always had the Ss available, and then bang, comes plan B and nothing. Jacky, I don't think your H is totally comfortable about this. He's pushing for a chance to prove something? My H told me he's quite content not having to talk with me.Oh yes...<p>Jacky, take care, we'll make it through this.
You have done so well.