A few days ago, my oldest son decided to go move in with dad. Oldest son is 8. Dad doesn't want him, doesn't want any of the kids, doesn't even make any attempts to talk to any of them. In fact, if one of them answers the phone, he's even said he just hangs up, because he wasn't calling THEM. <p>Reason for wanting to live with Dad... "if I live with Dad, I can make him respect me and treat me nicer." <p>I didn't even try to call their father - it wouldn't do any good - - - so my problem... why am I still beating myself up over this. The man is a gutter sluething slimeball - he doesn't pay support, shows up with miniscule amounts of money ANGRY, and treats the kids and I like dirt under his feet when he sees us... so why do I let my son get to me - and why do I let this stuff still eat at me... <p>I've really had a great seven months since he moved out - better when I don't hear from him EVER, but... if I must hear from him, why can't I just deal with it and let it go???<p>Suggestions anyone??? Ideas??? am I really just totally insane for letting this all bother me???<p>Jan

No, of course not!<p>This bothers you because you're a decent human being with the wherewithall to know it's not the way a husband or father SHOULD act. It's appropriate and more than natural to be "bothered" by this type of selfish behaviour. However, you are gonna have to "let go" of what's right and deal with what is. Once you start dealing with "what is" the emotions start to settle down a bit.<p>I don't have kids, but just an observation: I think it would be really harmful to your son (esp. at age 8) to move in with your H so that he could try to "change" his Dad's behaviour. On top of all the other hurt he's already been thru, that would really top the cake, IMHO.<p>A coupla questions:
* How can you son move in with H if H doesn't want him?
* Are you in Plan B? (that's how I got over the worst of the negative emotional attacks)
* Have you or son asked H if he can move in?<p>Like I said, I'm not a parent, but I feel that you need to help your son see that he can't change his father....only the father can choose to do that. <p>Also, so that you aren't sucked into the middle of it, maybe you can ask you son to write your H a letter asking if he could move in. That way your son will know that if he says no, or doesn't answer, it didn't have anything to do with you. And you can prepare yourself ahead of time with how you will help you son handle that rejection.<p>I believe the letter idea is better than asking in person, because you already said that H doesn't want to talk to kids, and if it was my son, I would rather have him dissappointed before he got his hopes up and actually packed to move in!<p>Are you ready for the answer that yes, your H would want the son? Would you be okay with that? It sounds like it's highly unlikely tho.<p>Anyway, those are my thoughts. Don't know if they'll help....<p>Aloha,
Ms.O

I wouldn't be okay with it - and I wouldn't allow it - neither would the courts. My H is unable to deal with life himself - could not handle a child. I would NEVER let him do that... so no, I haven't asked H wouldn't consider asking him. <p>It's really just the thorns my son is handing me. I have four children - and only one of them has the blinders on where 'dad' is concerned. My H was prone to treating him as a 'favored' child - and created a lot of problems. <p>I'm beyond plan b - more like plan d... it is in process. My kids are all very settled with the fact that dad moved out and isn't supporting them - they've come to terms with his lack of interest and lack of participation in their lives, except for oldest son. He goes through these rounds of trying to convince me and himself that Dad isn't all bad - and that he would be good if I just would allow him to move back in. That isn't an option. Dad moved out onto a farm and has refused to move back to town. Long story - but I won't move to the farm and be isolated by him.<p>Jan

(((((((((JAN)))))))))))))<p>I have few answers for you. It will bother you, you just need to give things more time. 7 months isn't long enough.<p>I think because you are a great person and he is such a jerk, this bothers you. You just want him to be a decent person too. There's nothing at all wrong with this.<p>Every day you let go more and more.<p>Every day you will grow more and more independent.<p>Some days you may take a step back but then your steps forward will be larger than those steps back.<p>Don't give up on this. It'll happen.<p>As for your son. I wondered if some day my children would say this to me some day. Thinking that they would have it easier with dad. This could be a ploy for your son to get his way. To use this against you. He may want you to say, don't go, I'll give you your way. Don't do it. Let him go, let him fail, let him come back, when he does greet him with open arms.<p>Take care and keep stand tall.<p>ANNA

But it doesn't sound like you H WANTS to be back in the marriage/family? Right?<p>The the only other thing I can suggest is keeping on softly repeating "what is" to your son....<p>"Sweetie, Dad doesn't want to be with the family. I'm very sad about this and I am so sorry for any pain his decision has caused you. Just know that you are a very special boy and that I and your [siblings] love you very much."<p>Or something like that....<p>I know with my STBXH, sometimes I have to just keep repeating (softly and emotionally contolled) whatever it is he doesn't seem to get when we talk (and he doesn't have the excuse of being 8!)<p>If you just stick to your guns regarding what your H has done, it will keep you out of it emotionally with your son. You will appear to be more objective and hopefully, it won't cause you son to blame you in any way.<p>Keep the faith...
Aloha,
Ms.O

I sometimes feel like he's just walked away - and I can't walk away - I have kids and a life that doesn't let me just walk away and never look back.<p>Does that make sense. I mean -it's not that I don't want the kids -it's just that there are times when it just HURTS too much.<p>I just want a minute out - an hour or two to just runaway from all the pressures and stresses - and hang out with the coffee shop clache... not really, I don't know what I mean - maybe it's just PMS or something...<p>I don't know right now what it is... <p>Jan

Jan,<p>It makes soooo much sense.<p>Why do they get to be so irresponsible? Why do we have to be the ones who are always responsible? Why can't we ever just walk away for a few days from responsibilities?<p>Just remember he's a jerk! He's a low life! He's scum! Some day he will regret never doing the right thing.<p>I have a friend who's husband is bailing. I hate to see him to this. It's a MLC thingy. He dropped the kids off from dinner one day and actually said, "I've had it with the girls, from now on I only take son." He's being a jerk.<p>One day he came into their house to get some of his belongings, the children were arguing, he didn't say a word. As he walked out he looked at my friend and with his smerky smile said, "I am so glad I'm out of here." What a jerk!<p>I can't stand parents who leave there responsibilites. They have to be the most selfish persons in the world!<p>I am sorry he's not there to give you help. To take the children every other weekend. This is wrong. The courts should force him to do this. I don't understand how someone can bring children in the world and just walk away. That's abandonment.<p>Okay now I vented...wheww! I think you need to calm me down now! hehe AND I thought I was going to calm you down. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] Sheesh!<p>Now that I feel better. THANKS! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] Is there someone a family member, or anyone who can take the kids every now and then and give you the break you deserve?<p>Take care,<p>ANNA<p>I think I'll go get a glass of water after this post. I don't even dare check my blood pressure right now. My blood is definitely boiling! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]

My daughter keeps the younger ones sometimes - I love having a 16 year old... She's so mature! It's so nice to leave the rest with her and know that when I come home the house will be picked up the kids in bed, and I'll have clean sheets and something yummy to eat... She reminds me of me...<p>My parents are nearby - but my mother and my h have so much in common - it's hard to leave the kids with her. If I leave them with her for three hours - she starts calling me at the end of the first hour - by the end of the second hour my younger daughter is in tears and she's calling me, by the end of the third hour - I'm wishing I hadn't left them at all.<p>I do have some friends that I leave them with occasionally - I've learned which ones I can leave them with for extended periods - and which ones I can't leave them with.<p>Thanks Anna...<p>I'll be on tomorrow - I'm going to watch a movie.<p>Jan

Seekingjoy,<p>Don't really have any advice at the moment although I do understand what your going through
with your son..<p>Is he the only boy? You said he's 8, my son is 7, and wants to live w/ dad..and from watching my bestfriend go through it w/ her son years ago, I think it's pretty normal..<p>She actually let her son go live w/ his dad for a school year..told him that he couldn't come back home till after the school year except to have the normal visitation - he would be w/ her and his sister was w/ dad..thats how long it lasted..ONE school year - he was actually ready to come back b4 that..but had to finish the school year out per the agreement to give living w/ dad an honest try..He learned a lot about his dad that he didn't notice before..and found that NOTHING he could ever do would be good enough..dad wouldn't change..He has more respect for his mom..and also for himself..He has found other men through Church and School to fill that male role model image..
men he looks up to in a way he never looked up to and probably never will look up his dad..<p>It Just hurts..being the mom and watching our kids suffer trying to be loved by their dad..begging for his attention and it being rejected..not just boy's but girls too..<p>I really just wanted to let you know it's normal
for your son to feel this way under these circumstance..

Dear Jan, <p>Your son has a huge pain in his heart. He is trying his best to take responsibility for it and be proactive about making it better. Give him all the understanding and love you have. All you can do is explain that it isn't his fault daddy isn't here. It isn't his fault that daddy can't love. <p>Your little eight year old boy wants to do the love for the both of them. This is terribly hard on kids that age. <p>Do NOT give in to your son. Letting him try his plan on those terms will only be harder on him. Give this problem to your pastor and son's therapist. <p>And by all means, continue to protect the kids from that horrible man they think of as their father!<p>Best of luck!<p>Karenna

Thanks Karenna and Thorned Rose<p>That's what I've done - just reasure him and continue to support him. We changed churches and have been active in the youth and young people events at the new church - it is actually full of children. The other church had several children but not a lot in the way of children's activities. My reasons for changing were actually not the best ones - but it has been for the best. There have been several guys who make it a point to spend time with my boys (and the girls - but the boys are younger and need it more).<p>I was venting on this post - the frustration gets me at times. I have had a full load this month - just with normal stuff, and when S said what he did I went into 'victim' mode temporarily... I got out of it - but...<p>It's not helping that professionals whom I have to deal with just cannot accept that I'm a SINGLE person and H is not responsible for my choices. I had to purchase a vehicle - and even the salesman THREE times suggested that I have my H come in and look at the car. I left the car lot - without buying the vehicle I wanted - I refused to deal with THAT MAN! I drove to the city (almost an hour away) and looked for a vehicle - then came back and talked to a salesman here who sells vehicles from his home (second income - he farms in the summer). He had a great buy on a vehicle I needed, let me have the use of the vehicle while I'm getting the financing taken care of. The really great part of this story - I was driving on ice yesterday - and a Chevy truck slid through a stop sign into the side of my 'new vehicle' - totalled both vehicles. I'd just signed the papers on the loan and had the insurance put on it almost two hours earlier.... Total from the insurance is almost three thousand dollars more than I paid for it - I'll have a down payment to put down on another vehicle and there were no injuries in the accident. How's THAT for wallowing in the Bull Pucky and coming out smelling like a rose??? <p>Oh and the guy driving the chevy that slid through the stop sign --- was the salesman from the dealership who told me I needed to get my husband to come check out the car. I suggested that he have his wife drive him places when the roads are icy - women tend to not take so many chances, and drive slower for the conditions. I think my point was well made!!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Attack mode is so much more affective than victim mode... LOL<p>Later I felt like a rottweiler (sp). But, it felt good at the moment.

Hi sj2,<p>I want to share with you, because I am in kind of the same boat as you. I have a H who suddenly doe not seem to care about his kids.....well I can see he makes SOME effort, (from 10000 miles away) but the kids just see that daddy is gone.<p>My eldest is 8. And the way he has coped with this for a while has been denial of his own feelings. Lately it has been anger, and derogatory statements about H. <p>What I am trying to say is that the children all have their way of coping with the stress of separation. Your son thinks by being with daddy he can change things, but he cannot. You need to sit him down and have an honest talk with him.<p>To be honest I am having the most trouble with my four year old, who today told Nanny that Daddy is coming home to live with us soon......no, not true, it is a holiday for H, but she cannot see why he can't stay with us!<p>I think in this situation the poeple with young kids are the hardest at work.......they must Plan A all the time with the children, even if they are in Plan B with the spouse. They must NEVER put the WS down in front of the kids, never. Well that is hard, as I have found out. But he is the one who has lost the most. <p>Those of us who have been left with the kids, the responsibility, the 24 hour care, the full burden of their ups and downs, are really hard worked. BUT, what does the WS miss out on?<p>I will tell you what my WS has missed the last couple of days:<p>* the pleasure of seeing his D's christmas concert<p>* the pleasure of the kids helping to plant the new flowers and their joy in that new life<p>* the pleasure of driving around looking at the Christmas house lights with three very excited kids<p>* the pleasure of his son bringing home a certificate from school saying his writing has improved a great deal<p>* the PLEASURE of our youngest coming to our bed in the middle of the night, wanting cuddles, and she ended up staying there all night..............<p>You see? They miss SO much and they do not even know.<p>I take great solace in this......I have my babies here, and he doesn't have them THERE. In the big frame of things, is ANY OW worth that? No, of course not.<p>And THAT makes me feel better about the whole thing. It is HIS choice to do what he is doing.....he had a great family, and he let it go. Well I am finding the joy, do you really think he is? Or your H?<p>No.<p>My H used to see the kids in SA for five minutes then he was telling them off. I have a better track record than that!<p>Your son, KNOWS what will happen. He speaks from hope. Explain to him why he cannot live with his dad, and make no excuses. Total honesty applies to kids, too. Anything else is sticking up for a H who doesn't deserve it.<p>Hope this helps,<p>Love and light,<p>Jacky

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by seekingjoy2:
<strong><p>Oh and the guy driving the chevy that slid through the stop sign --- was the salesman from the dealership who told me I needed to get my husband to come check out the car. I suggested that he have his wife drive him places when the roads are icy - women tend to not take so many chances, and drive slower for the conditions. I think my point was well made!!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]
Attack mode is so much more affective than victim mode... LOL<p>Later I felt like a rottweiler (sp). But, it felt good at the moment.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Jan,<p>THAT IS HILLARIOUS!<p>Gosh, if I need something done, there's more than one person in the world who can can me an opinion besides my husband. That sales man was sure a jerk! I laughed so much, how ironic it was that salesman to hit you.<p>Although, girl, regarding the injuries, do not assume there are no injuries, it took me over three days to realize I was hurt. The doctor explained it to me something like this, "Your body protects you, it's in shock from the damage done, most accidents can take days for your body to respond to the damage done.<p>Let's see now, 5 years later, an accident I thought I walked away totally free of injuries...I still have complications from...<p>Don't sign any physical damage settlements until at least one week.<p>Take care and thanks for the great laugh. <p>ANNA

Nina -<p>Thanks - I so agree - telling children the honest truth is the only way to deal with it. Amazing how often that is difficult to do. You don't want to hurt them. <p>I have found that when my son starts whining about Dad missing out on seeing him in parades, etc. it seems to help if someone else points out that his father CHOSE not to be there - rather than me. Our pastor did it last Sunday - he just told him S your father was invited - because the church sends out invitations to parents, but he chose not to attend. Later, my son came up and said, "Mom, did you know the church invited Dad to this program. Why wouldn't he come? I wanted to see him here." I told him that it was Dad's choice. He just didn't come. It was really interesting the way he responded. He kind of sputtered for a while... then he said he wanted to go live with Dad so he(son) could make him(Dad) treat him(son) with respect. I kinda went bananas thinking of that - but I would never allow H to take son - and it was my own fears that sent me whining to MB... but, I honestly believe it was a momentary thing.<p>After the wreck yesterday - my S said, "mom, I'm glad you are okay. I wouldn't want to have to live with dad." Same son - three days later...? [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] I think he knows down deep that living with dad is no answer. Just hope nothing EVER happens to me.<p>Feeling the need to be immortal here - [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] It's scary - being the only parent.<p>BLessings,<p>Jan

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Anna2000:
<strong>
Don't sign any physical damage settlements until at least one week.<p>Take care and thanks for the great laugh. <p>ANNA</strong><hr></blockquote><p>
I never sign anything on an accident for at least a week - too much pressure... Still no indication of injury - the damage was mostly that his truck slid along the whole side of my vehicle. I'll have to appear in court - but I didn't get a ticket. That ought to be fun - I have an on going love/hate relationship with the judge.<p>My sister refers to this particular judge as a 'Jolly Green Donkey [censored]' - if that give you any clue as to his personality. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] I have a far better description of him - but mine isn't repeatable.<p>Hugs,<p>Jan