<p>[ January 20, 2002: Message edited by: MMMMM ]</p>

As far as getting better with time...I doubt it. It isn't really clear to me what you are asking...does the interaction get better with time? Probably at some point you will have something positive that means more to you than the rejection, and lack of consideration do now. Knowing that my XW will act the way she does helps, and frustrates. It is up to me (and you) to determine what that means, and how to react. Right now, you are reacting naturally (hurt). Realize that this is not happening TO you. This is your life...all yours now. He has abdicated his authority, but still needs to control you, and your situation. The best response for you is to take your life back into your hands. If he is unwilling to discuss the kids, fine. If you are wanting to attempt to bring him back to the table...you need to be aware that he is rebelling against any sort of control at all from you. It would be difficult (and somewhat devious) to attempt to control him in any fashion (real, or perceived) right now.<p>Your kids are waaayy too young to understand this dynamic....mostly, they just see that things are 'not right'. Most of that comes from you two, and how you are acting/reacting, not a knowledge of morals, or what is right on their part. Children are not as judgemental in these matters as we are. I have labored hard to learn ambilvalence without malice...its not easy. If there is any hurt or anger beneath, it will demand to be dealt with, or it will surface at a time that will do the most damage to your position...be careful there.<p>You must quit allowing his rejection of you to define you. His judgement is not final, or binding. Accept yourself as you are NOW. A mess, I'm sure, but God's loved child nonetheless. You might feel unattractive now, (I know that I do.) but that will change, too.<p>The WAS is an emotional vampire. There are great voids in their emotional lives, and they cannot seem to accept that they have a culpability. (Takers always deserve things...they never grasp the need to accomodate an outsider. Compromise is not in their vernacular.) The real kicker for me is that mine can never seem to say anything real...she defines one abstract noun with another...very frustrating...she knows that, too. The need to push all responsibility away is the driving force in this for them. That, and the total selfishness of it are what power the entire interaction. In searching for a solution, cause, or ANYTHING in this, it is important to make the most of that piece of information. You are taking this personally (duh)...you shouldn't. Its not about you...or the kids...only him. That's difficult to do...especially since that is probably where it started for the WAS...in focusing on their needs, they have gone overboard. We are perceived as having pushed them there...true, or not. We cannot change the past, and the future is not really under our control, either. The present is controllable to the extent that you can respond in any way you choose to him. Once you establish a consistent pattern, he will have to 'deal with' that...just like you are forced to deal with how he responds to you. He's probably not getting the response he wants, either, and you at least have the advantage of knowing what you want.<p>Honestly, do you think there is a path back to good for you two? Where does that lead to? Do you think you will ever be together again? Can you two be friendly? Civil? In the same room at the same time? It is easy to say...let's be civil. You know what that means to me? Let's put the really ugly feelings under an air of indifference. All that does is create unlimited opportunity for sarcasm, double entendre, and all that other BS that we put on top of UGLY FEELINGS. The trick is to just walk away from the OR entirely, and leave that behind. I'm still leaving a trail of emotions in the wake. Believe me, I do not want that OR again...or my XW the way she is, either. The less I talk to her, the more I can detatch...which is necessary. I think he is not fully detatched, and you will be able to tell, because the less you seem intereseted, the more he will push your buttons. Control. Its all about control...attempts to control.<p>As far as the kids, and OW. There are legal maneuvers that you can use to attempt to prevent him from taking your kids there, but this is another control issue. People seem to think that by using this avenue, they will get 'what is right for the kids.' To me, that is a huge mistake, and somewhat hypocritical...control through moral turpitude...not good, but easy to justify the same old thing with a new name. While I am ranting on that, there seems to be a big issue with co-parenting, and maintaining some contact based on that fact. While it shows some common care for them, which is a good thing, I think that early on, it creates the illusion that everything is okay...which it is not. We try to shield our children too much...this is UGLY...there is a good, and bad here...not people per se, but actions. Your children are learning a lot about relationships. They are forming opinions about marriage, and family, and the way things are. There is no getting around that. Avoid judging him in front of them.<p>That's my take on it, anyway. I am sorry that your life has taken this ugly turn. I know how you feel...I think. MY XW left 5/23 with no separation, and is 'dating' my former friend...ouch. I have two sons who no longer speak to me, and two that do. My finances are ruined beyond repair, and I'm experiencing a depth and breadth of emotions most people never feel. Meanwhile, life goes on...responsibilities, all of it...except that I am 'on my own', and she is not...peachy, isn't it?<p>Okay, the only practical thing I can say is that my XW and I usually exchange one bit of information, or a request at a time...at the end of the conversation. Next time, the answer is the first thing dealt with. Its slow, but it works. I do not make an issue of the kids at all. She uses them to get things that she left here...and were not spelled out in the settlement...I let it slide, but asked them not to do that any more. There is scant little from the OR worth using them in order to keep, and I'm done with the being mean for its own sake.<p>Take care...remember that God cannot despise a broken and contrite heart, so you shouldn't, either. (Psalm 51) -Mike

Hi K-<p>I just reponded to your reply on my post so read it too. Reading this post I have to ask, "Are we married to the same man?" Your post could have been written by me.<p>I agree with Mike. You need to take control of your life. When people say the only person you can control is you they are right. My WH will not talk about anything either. He uses the same excuses. I used to get upset, now I simply ask him to talk and when he doesn't I make the decisions on my own. If he complains about being left out I calmly explain that I came to him, but he didn't want to talk. He also blames me for all the consequences of his decisions, but I know that I am not the evil, vindictive person, he'd like to make me out to be. I don't let him get to me or transfer his guilt onto me. It drives him nuts and keeps me sane. <p>It is so hard to see the effects on your kids. Mine are 9,6,3, and 4 months. You have to keep in mind that you can't change him and that the best thing you can do is take care of yourself and the kids. You are the rational, stable person in their life and although they might not get it now, eventually they will.<p>By the way, who cares if this post is a vent, that is what we are here for. Hang in there and keep me posted we have so many similarities we can be of great support to eachother.<p>K