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I am supposed to be able to see my daughter tomorrow morning. I sent her an Email this morning telling her that it was supposed to snow, and asking her what she wanted to do tomorrow.<p>. . . so later in the morning, I get an Email from my W. . . she asks me if I am still planning on coming to see my D or not. She also asks me questions about whether or not I have starting seeing anyone else, the friend of ours specifically. She goes on to ask if I have slept with this friend. If they are better in bed than my W, etc. . . you get the drift.<p>I tried to explain to my W that if and when I get into a relationship that is serious then we would probably talk about it. That if the subject were important enough that the conversation should take place face to face rather than in Email, and that I had not compared my W with any previous sexual partners, why would I start this practice now.<p>I haven't heard back from her since.<p>Anyway, here is my question . . . My W decided that she would rather run away and hide my D from me rather than try and work on the issues in our marriage. She did this the day after a holiday, while I was at work. She has refused to talk about our relationship at all, other than to say that it is over. . . .<p>So what gives her the right to know whether or not I am involved with someone else?<p>Why try and start this conversation on the day before I am supposed to see my D? When she has already proven that if she doesn't like my answers or opinions that she will deny me access to my D.<p>Will someone PLEASE explain this to me . . . .

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ES,<p>If you want out of you relationship with her also, which I suspect you do. Then tell her you will only consider speaking to her about your daughter and questions related to her. Anytime she ask you about other things, reiterate this.<p>If you still want your marriage to work, tell her you'll be happy to discuss with her your involvement with this lady, when she goes to counseling with you and expresses interest on wanting to work on your marriage.<p>Take care and I'm glad you are seeing your daughter tomorrow.<p>ANNA<p>[ December 14, 2001: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]</p>

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Not that I'm an expert, just in a WAS situation, too, but a couple of things occur to me...<p>It is hard to pull that far out of a relationship cold turkey...was there an exit affair? In my case, there was/is, so she has him to help.<p>You can't control someone easily when you put yourself outside a relationship...no tools. It could be an attempt to get a tool.<p>She might be seeing if it is safe to come back. Not that she wants to, but a WAS needs to be able to 'fall back', and if they sense this need, they will try to keep you on the line...just in case.<p>Finally, she might be comparing how you are doing to how she is...in that case, she is not doing well.<p>More questions than answers, really...Oh, well. -Mike

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Anna2000 -- She has given me no reason whatsoever to expect or even really desire a reconcilliation. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Take care and I'm glad you are seeing your daughter tomorrow.<hr></blockquote>I hope your right . . .I hope that she doesn't pull what she did the last time I was supposed to be able to see my D. . . . <p>waiting_for_her -- <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>It is hard to pull that far out of a relationship cold turkey<hr></blockquote>Not for my W. This is the third time that she has left me in the last five (5) years. She is very good at it. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>was there an exit affair?<hr></blockquote>Not that I am aware of. She has been accusing me of having an affair. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>she might be comparing how you are doing to how she is...in that case, she is not doing well.<hr></blockquote>This may be, but her leaving was her decision not mine. I had tried to start a conversation with her, to see what was going to happen with us. . .Two (2) days later, she left while I was at work. . . This may sound cold-hearted, but if she is doing that badly, then it is her own d _ _ n fault.

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ES,<p>Do you want your wife to come back and you two to work on the marriage?<p>ANNA

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Anna2000 -- <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Do you want your wife to come back and you two to work on the marriage?<hr></blockquote>You know, I have answered this question so many different ways over the last five years. . .When my W left the second time, about 6 weeks ago, I was willing to at least try to work on things. . . .After this last time. . . NO, I don't think I do. . .<p>Pretty sad, I know. . .but, since I wasn't the one deciding what was going to happen, I refuse to allow it to destroy me.

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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Empty Shell:
<strong>Anna2000 -- You know, I have answered this question so many different ways over the last five years. . .When my W left the second time, about 6 weeks ago, I was willing to at least try to work on things. . . .After this last time. . . NO, I don't think I do. . .<p>Pretty sad, I know. . .but, since I wasn't the one deciding what was going to happen, I refuse to allow it to destroy me.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>ES,<p>Please don't take this the wrong way, you will get lots of support here on ways to handle the divorce, ways of not letting your wife munipulate you through the divorce, custody of your daughter, and so many other issues, if you stick around, but the one thing that I think needs to be changed in your attitude about it is you come on D/D acting like she's the one who totally gave up on your relationship and you have no choice anymore. That's just not true. You have given up on your marriage also. It's time you faced this fact and admitted it.<p>I was not surprised by your answer. Anyone still trying to work on their marriage would have been happy to give up a relationship with another woman. It doesn't matter when you found out this was disturbing your wife, it's once you found out it was if you wanted her back and wanted to work on your marriage with her, you would have said to her, "I'll stop the relationship if you go to marriage counseling with me?"<p>It's time you quit blaming her for ending the marriage. You made the decision also, when you didn't give up the other woman's friendship when she asked. She's made a lot of mistakes but for some reason you just don't want to say, I also quit.<p>I think you started out being friends with this OW, your wife had no problem at first, but then she saw the relationship was turning in to more. By that time it was too late, you didn't want to give the friendship up. <p>Perhaps she left you again, but once she told you her concerns it was too late. You didn't want to try anymore. You now have feelings for this OW. You don't want to give the OW up. <p>I think both of you want this so now, IMHO, you need to quit saying she's the one that left, she's the one that gave up, she's the one that quit trying. You both quit. It's that simple.<p>In my own marriage, my husband left the home, he filed for a divorce. The difference is I am willing to admit I gave up on the marriage too. I was not willing to work on it anymore, it's over.<p>Also, regarding your daughter, she told you where your daughter was, I don't see her as hiding your daughter, it's not her fault you didn't save money for emergencies such as this, this is something you need to fix, you need to save money and get an attorney, and fight for joint custody of your daughter. You need to realize you also caused this problem by not having money necessary to fight her. Take action and fix this. It may take a couple of months but you are working and you can buckle down, bring P/B sandwiches to work, whatever it takes, just get the money to fight her for your rights as a father.<p>So now that I know you want the divorce too. I'm not here to judge you for your decision, there's only so much each of us can take before we throw in the towel and say we give up. <p>I do have questions for you though....Of course [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Like I stated above. Are you saving money towards getting an attorney to get divorce procedings started?<p>Have you contacted any father's rights agencies to see if you can get any aid?<p>Have you looked through the internet to come up with a "do it yourself" divorce/custody agreement...<p>Have you come up with some sort of game plan to get at least joint custody?<p>Also, let us know how your visitation went.<p>c'ya ES, take care and good luck,<p>ANNA

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Anna2000 -- Well, now we come back to some comments that were made to you on one of my previous posts. . . If oyu ahd gone back and researched me at all, oyu would know, that I have been more than willing to accept my own blame in this situation. In fact I have stated that many times.<p>As for doing "what ever it takes" to get my W back. . . . .first of all that is pure B.S. I made attempts at getting my W to talk about anbd decide if we were even going to try to continue working on the marriage. . . .I repeat, it was her chocie to pack up and leave rather than continue even TRYING to talk.<p>We have been to counselling several different times in the past, both individually and together. . . .And every single one that was not my myself, has ended with her wanting to do nothing but discuss the realtionship with her parents, and specifically her mother.<p>. . . so, without having bothered to do any research on my situation, or bothered to ask me questions without going on the attack, you have the nerve to tell me that I am wrong in this situation ? ? ? ? ? I don't think so.<p>As the saying goes . . . It takes two. . .well, according to my W the two that it takes, is her and her mother. It doesn't work that way.<p>If you want to try and salvage a marriage then you do anything it takes to try and communicate and work out the problems. . . . well, you know what. . . I did that for almost five years. I commuted 65 miles miles one way to work in order to be able to facilitate this. . . . I paid rent on two different apartments. I paid all of the bills, and in the long run ended up having to file bankruptcy. . . and in case things are different in your part of the world. . . Bankruptcy means that you lose all of you assets in most cases. . . . and I did. . . . that was less than six months ago. . . .so I don't want to hear how I should have been saving up for this. . . . . . . <p>NOT ONCE since I came to the D/d forumn have I said that I wanted to try and salvage what has been destroyed. . .The third time is a charm, and that is how many times I have gone through this. . . There WILL NOT be a fourth.<p>Obviously coming back here really was a mistake.

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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Empty Shell:
<strong>Obviously coming back here really was a mistake.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>ES,<p>Did you read anything I wrote????<p>I did not blame you...<p>BTW, you erased most of your history. It sounds like you are trying to take the focus off the things I said, by trying to blame me and saying I didn't read your history. I stand by my statement.<p>It's your choice if you go. <p>I just read a lot of what others told you on the GQII board, when you said they too were attacking you so you left there also. <p>They weren't attacking you. They were only trying to help you. This is a forum. I get some advice that I disagree with, but I listen to them anyway, I often find a lot of truth in what they say, especially the things that hurt the most. <p>You run when people say things you don't want to hear. I think it's time you stop running, but if you choose to run and leave then don't blame me or anyone else. You chose to go.<p>ANNA<p>[ December 14, 2001: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]</p>

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Well, I just got back home a few minutes ago from seeing my daughter. My W did not leave her side the entire day, but at least I got to spend some time with my daughter.<p>We went to the movies and several times during the movie, my daughter would lean up against me and hug my arm. . . I can't begin to tell you how good that felt.<p>She also told me to make sure that I told everyone how much she missed them. Her grand parents and her cousins will definitely like hearing about that when I tell them tomorrow.<p>My W did not say a single word about us, or about the situation with our daughter, which kind of made me happy, but at the same time frustrated me. She probed so hard in the Emails yesterday about what if any personal life I have, that I almost expected a battle over that subject to continue. For that I was grateful, but at the same time, it would have been nice if she would have said something, anything, about our daughters relationship with me.<p>My daughter did mention today that she wants to see me more, and asked specifically about seeing me again next weekend, as well as seeing her cousins. I don't know if anythin will come of it though, I guess like everything else, I just have to wait and see what happens.<p>Anyway, I just wanted to give a quick update.

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Hi Es,<p>I just stopped by and wanted to let you know that I was glad to hear that you were able to spend time with your daughter. Your daughter is now expressing her desire to visit with you and family more? This is good. <p>As for your W's probing questions......are you ready for another opinion? Hope so. I think you should just politely ignore them. How to do that? Well in your e-mails, just don't respond to them. If she asks why and you want to answer just say, it was not worth responding to and you' have to make something up if you were to answer those kind of questions, so where would that get anyone? I did that with my h. After a while he stopped. <p>I mean really ask her. 'W, do you want the truth or do you want me to make stuff up? If you want me to make stuff up, I'll have to get back to you cause it will take a while'. Then drop it. <p>Anyways, take care. <p>L.

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OKay, at the risk of seeming like I am harping on you, I am going to say that I agree...look, you are THERE now. You are done. You just can't admit that this is a choice that you are making. 'Third time's a charm'? What's that? Hey, Miss Cleo did not have to tell you the score, you were there...still are. How much more done do you need to be before you say, ' I am done...because I said so.? You are a man...I can see that. This is your decision...who really cares why? Move on, man. It's not easy, I know. The last thing you want to hear is my story at this point, but I might have to force it one you!<p>You are angry, and hurt...me, too. Want control? Then...ADMIT that you are done with her, and start introducing yourself to you. Forget the advice of your well meaning buddies (I think you know what I mean here with respect to 'getting back in the saddle', etc.). The trouble for me was that I put my XW in the driver's seat, and she drove the marriage off a cliff. That was not pretty, and took 10 years. Okay, now it's important to move in new, positive directions.<p>I don't want to make you feel uncomfortable here...actually, I do in a way. You should not feel comfortable in the state that you seem to be in...take your power BACK from her. TODAY. She still elicits a major reaction from you, and when you get called on it here, you rail...not good, mate. Look, if you want to read this thread about 7 months ago with me playing your part, I can give you a link to it, but really...why would anyone here be anything other than straight up with you? Makes no sense.<p>I would not wish this on my worst enemy...I mean that...this is the worst humiliation/rejection/etc. I could imagine, its like Dante, or something, but understand that every single person here is going through/about to go through/or been through it before...think you are different? Maybe, but not a lot. I'm not wanting to make you feel like you are out of line, or that your pain is not excruciating...I am certain that it is, but try to understand that we are not your 'real world', we are a unique demographic here, just like you are.<p>Okay, if you want something to respond with...try this:
Go buy Penthouse. (Not normally recommended in this situation, but bear with me a tick...) When she askes you about your personal life...very carefully type in your favorite 'Forum' letter (They are all written by 14 year old boys, anyway!) from that issue...I guarantee the questions will stop. Okay, that might be a little extreme...but these are extreme times that we live in, n'est-ce pas?<p>Okay, I have totally quit apologizing for myself, but I've got one left here...sorry, but this is where you are now. The world wants your self-esteem...don't give it to them. Hang in there, it does get better, and the only thing that will be with you your entire life is you, so you'd better make damned sure you are good with who you are. Remember to ignore her judgements of you...even when they come from you...understand? God Bless -Mike


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