What do you do when the progress in the relationship ends up in a &#8220;stalemate&#8221;. Basically, there has been no further progress in the past 4 weeks. My husband gives me my one phone call a day and comes by to visit almost every night with me and the kids. While I do enjoy the time he is spending with us, I don&#8217;t see it progressing any further. When he is visiting, it is more like he is at the house to use the computer to look up his Fantasy Football stats, watch a little TV with us and to play with the kids. There is very little conversation between he and I. I can see the positive in this by the fact that he is spending more time with us but now it is like he is perfectly content again with being able to spend at little time with us and then to come and go as he pleases. His only visits when he wants to and if I invite him over, he is usually has something else to do. While he appears content, I am frustrated. I feel like nothing I say or do is breaking any more ground for him to want to spend time with just me.<p>He is not meeting my important emotional needs and I have tried several different ways to tell him this and then we usually end up fighting about it. Thus, bringing us to a &#8220;stalemate&#8221;. He thinks he is doing enough by calling and coming by almost everyday and I need a little more.<p>Is it possible for me to end the &#8220;stalemate&#8221;? If so, HOW?

Plan A is about meeting his needs, not about meeting his needs and EXPECTING/NEGOTIATING yours. You need to meet his needs, not be taken advantage of, meaning don't do anything that you wouldn't do for the 20 years, and don't accept disrespectful judgements, verbal abuse, physical abuse, etc.<p>What is the definition of manipulation?<p>doing something or saying something with the expectation of something specific done in return. What is doing something for love? Doing something without any expectations of something in return.<p>A good relationship gives you something back in return, but it is not expected, nor demanded, in a specific time and form. meeeting needs is not tit for tat, not quid pro quo, meeting needs is done in time with thoughtfulness and in an individual way.<p>The WS may not trust the new behavior, the new behavior must be genuine and permanently in place. And four weeks is not long enough. Also, there may be other actions that are cancelling out the meeting of WS needs, like disrespectful judgements, emotional projections, etc. All LB must be eliminated and the 4 rules of relatioinships must be implemented, even if it is one sided.<p>so keep up your effort to make your house safe for him, emotionally, and still meet his needs. Have you called the Harley's for some help in structuring your plan? i think if you are stuck and don't see any progress, its time to get some plan enhancements from the leaders.<p>wiftty

quote by sWIFTTy <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>so keep up your effort to make your house safe for him, emotionally, and still meet his needs. <hr></blockquote><p>Gosh, this is so hard to do... I know you've been in limbo for quite some time now Michele... it's been baby steps that you H is taking. I'm wondering what he finds so comfortable staying outside your home. Is he at his parent's home?<p>I'm with you... my H is very comfortable living upstairs with me on the first floor and sometimes I feel like I need to create a crucible (as described in the book The Passionate Marriage) to create some action out of the present inertia...<p>However, I'm thinking the best thing for you (and me for that matter) is to work on just what Tom is saying above... Make your home safe... desireable... keep your taker in check. If he feels that you don't think he's meeting your emotional needs... it sends him running (saying to himself... I'll never do it right for her).<p>Hang in there... again, I so relate to your situation, though my H just goes to sleep upstairs instead of leaving the house. <p>Take care,
Nicole

<small>[ August 05, 2004, 11:33 PM: Message edited by: laura_lee ]</small>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> In a Plan A... you avoid lovebusters, you make deposits, and you negotiate your needs. If you do not receive an appropriate response... you adjust your actions in direct response to his/hers. You restore balance and equity in the relationship.
<hr></blockquote><p>Laura,<p>In reference to the quote in bold, how long do you wait?<p>6 seconds?
6 minutes?
6 hours?
6 days?
6 weeks?
6 months?<p>Laura, if someone does not want to negotiate with you because of past LB behavior, the behavior must be eliminated, then the WS has to trust that the LB behavior is gone for good. that is what takes time. People usually don't just leave or change (generalization I know) unless there is a change in behavior from the past romantic loves times.<p>My point being, do what you suggested, but don't have a list of expected behaviors that the WS is supposed to have in some time frame. <p>i think your response is somewhat overly optimistic in the timeframe and the situation. . .<p>wiftty

Tom says... <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>the behavior must be eliminated, then the WS has to trust that the LB behavior is gone for good. that is what takes time. <hr></blockquote><p>And this is precisely the point... UNTIL that WS believes the lb behavior is gone for good, they won't come home.<p>Now, if I recall correctly, there is no OW in either Michele's nor my case. It's a matter of selfishness and fear of the past way the relationship went.<p>I read your post Laura and felt invigorated... yet, sad. Sad that it is the time factor. I wish you'd say more about this... what you say here, Laura; <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Begin TRAINING people in relationship on HOW you EXPECT to be treated. DON'T leave it to them to figure out and do. TRAIN them. TRAIN them. <p>If you don't REALIZE that you are TRAINING them... even know... please wake up and smell the coffee. They are treating them the way you have trained them to do. They're getting away with what they know they can.<hr></blockquote> ...is quite interesting... because what I've been personally accused of doing is precisely that... training NO, MANIPULATING... sorry but that's in essence what it seems like you're suggesting. If you can break down the anatomy of what you mean by training, that would be helpful. Otherwise, I'm inclined to believe that you're suggesting the former... manipulation. This is not something that I endorse... I'm paying the price for this *training* already.<p>I would love to be able to change my circumstances... I just don't know how... It's the same as Michele seems to be feeling to want to change things... make her H take some action... right now, he seems content with the way it is... it's not okay on her timetable.<p>Thots?<p>[ December 15, 2001: Message edited by: OvrCs ]</p>

sballplyr,<p>Have you read "Boundaries" by Henry Claude and John Townsend. Your frustration is because you are not setting appropriate boundaries. Can you live with the way things are "till death do you part"? Your h is content and you are miserable. He has no reason to change because he is happy with the way things are. You are the one who is not happy so you need to make changes so you can be happy. How long have you been in Plan A? It may be time for Plan B or at least see it as a goal for the new year.

Thanks to all of you who have responded. I have gotten some great advice from both sides of the fence here and I think I can mix the two sides and end up seeing more results.<p>I am one of the lucky ones whose husband is not a WS. I am going to continue with my Plan A as I am finally seeing a little more forward progress since I started this thread. I have been trying to make coming home a very safe place for my H. It has just been a real uphill struggle.<p>Eight months ago, when my H brought out all of the things that troubled him with our relationship, he then "shut down" again and has decided to not want to deal with the issues but to just "run" from them. At least knowing what the problems were, it made it easier for me to Plan A him but it has also been hard because I want to address the issues one at a time and he gets really mad when I want to talk about them. That is my HUGE LB that seems to happen when wanting to see if we are making progress on our issues.<p>I know Plan A is about changing myself but how do I know if it is really working if I don't feel like I am getting some encouragement along the way. You see, I kind of relate it to being a good employee. If your employer lets you know once and a while that you are doing a good job and you are vauled, then that employee will want to continue to strive to become an even better employee. If the employee is never told that they are doing a great job, they will end up getting tired of the same old thing everyday when they are not valued or encouraged. <p>Again, thank you all for your input, it really is helping me stay positive.<p>Michele

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> At least knowing what the problems were, it made it easier for me to Plan A him but it has also been hard because I want to address the issues one at a time and he gets really mad when I want to talk about them. That is my HUGE LB that seems to happen when wanting to see if we are making progress on our issues.<p>I know Plan A is about changing myself but how do I know if it is really working if I don't feel like I am getting some encouragement along the way. You see, I kind of relate it to being a good employee. If your employer lets you know once and a while that you are doing a good job and you are vauled, then that employee will want to continue to strive to become an even better employee. If the employee is never told that they are doing a great job, they will end up getting tired of the same old thing everyday when they are not valued or encouraged.
<hr></blockquote><p>Michele,<p>this is not a business relationship, this is much more of an independent relationship, which can be very different, especially in how it is managed.<p>OK, what is your goal? you need to plainly identify your goal, in once sentence.<p>Then you need to plainly state your plan A steps, such that you have a check list that you can check off each day, and be proud of YOURSELF for eliminating prior LBs:
LBuster A: (check)
LBuster B: (check)
LBuster C: (check)<p>LB filling:<p>LBank A: (check)
LBank B: (check)
LBank C: (check)<p>now you have to estimate the LBank fillups, and then pat yourself on the back YOURSELF, for complying with your plan.<p>Post the Plan in your bedroom, in your night table, and then check off each day, the areas you did well in, and then keep trying to improve on the weaknesses.<p>I don't know your one at a time list style:
alphabetical, your difficulty level, his filling level, etc. but you need to make the list somehow, and then keep track of your behavior, and don't worry about feedback ( you have typical extrovert behavior, wanting energy from others to keep going, but right now, you need to find the energy from within, to be the best you can be individually! This is similar to hitting a ball in softball, you are one on one with the pitcher, teammates can't help by being in position for a pass, etc. its all about you. . . . you could say the same thing about the pitcher, depending on your view of offense.)<p>good luck, <p>and post that checklist for energy from here!<p>WIFTTy<p>[ December 17, 2001: Message edited by: WhenIfindthetime ]</p>

I agree with the reply of the two that say: 1. Set
Limits and 2. Do not be a doormat. The sales person had the right approach. Why just give your-
self away. You do not expect others to give them-
selves away to you, so why should you do that to
your husband, letting him walk all over you. If I was in your situation, and am close to it, having kicked my husband out of the house, last fall, I
would first set my limits and second let him know
the new me was developed and no more free visits without a definite repayment of some sort. [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]