Hi Marry-<p>It's been a while since we've talked and now I can't e-mail you. How are things going? The last time we talked you were making progress with your D. I hope evrything is going well. What a Christmas present that would be.<p>I'm doing pretty well all things considered. It still doesn't seem real that my dad is gone. The hardest part is seeing my mom so sad and lonely. I think with all the stress of dealing with the divorce my own grieving has been put on hold.<p>Things are going okay with My WH. I have basically Plan B'd him. I can see that it bothers him, but he does nothing to fix the situation and I see no other way to end his manipulation and my enabling of them. I don't know, when my dad died and I saw how he just didn't comphrehend the whole family thing, I realized that right now he is not where I need him to be and I can't wait for something to happen and for him to fix things. I truly believe that if it is meant to be it will, but right now I have a life to live. I really don't harbor a lot of resentment or anything. Granted I feel what he is doing is wrong and I don't like how he treats me or the kids, but deep down I know he is terribly mixed up and I feel sad for him more than anything. Don't get me wrong, I do have days when I want to kill him, but those feelings pass much more quickly now because I have learned that as long as I allow his actions to effect me they will and I have seen a lot of progress when I simply go on living myself. Living actually includes a couple of date offers although I haven't taken anybody up on them yet.
It is flattering none the less to know that there is life after all of this.<p>Write back, I miss you!<p>K

K
I came looking for you and was glad to see your message. I have AT&T and my E-mail is not functioning yet.<p>First of all I want you to know how sad I am that your Dad passed. I know that it was expected and that you were all waiting, but it is still hard to face. You have had so many disapointments and this just compounds the sadness. You are right that you have not had time to grieve. Grieve the death of your Dad, grieve the death of your marriage, and now your mothers grief to deal with. This is too much! I'm so very sorry.<p>I'm in counseling with my Daughter and we have had two sessions and one coming up the day after Christmas. This has caused me to think a great deal about the principals that I've learned here on MB. As we talk here I'll tell you about the sessions and my thoughts. This time though, I wanted to touch base with you and tell you that I have missed you too!<p>You have alot going on. So please,my friend, don't be too flattered by the attention of any man right. Give yourself time. You are volnerable,enjoy the attention but give this more time.<p>Write about anything.

Hi Marry-<p>I was so excited to hear from you. I hope that counseling is going well. I am very happy that you are going, it is real progress.<p>Things are going okay here. It is hectic with Christmas. The kids are nuts!<p>Things with the WH are pretty much the same. He tries to act so happy and sure of himself, yet he is really struggling with a lot of things. He claims he is fine with everything but finances and will be fine there as well as soon as the divorce is final. I however know differently. He is having drinking and gambling problems and I imagine the pressure is really getting to him. His lawyer is hounding mine to speed things along, but these things take time. The other day I found out that he had bounced $1000 worth of checks at a nearby casino. He is a mess yet refuses to face it so it just gets worse.<p>Well, there is so much more but the baby is fussing. I'll get back to you soon.<p>Have a Merry Christmas!<p>K

K<p>It's good to hear from you too!!!!!!!!<p>Believe it or not, it may be that your H is headed on the fast track to hitting bottom. This could be good news, if you stay out of the way so that he can not blame you. <p>I talked to my Al-anon sponser today and she said, "The more you point out the problem, the more she will be blind to it".<p>Have you ever done "scripting"? She has been doing scripting with me for many months now, however it has only been in the last month that the extended "script" has been given to me. It's taken me over six months for me to be ready for the "extended script". [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] I'm a slow learner.<p>I'll be talking to you about this process, partly because you will find it interesting and mostly because it re-enforces it for me.<p>I have a new E-mail address. It's the @---- that has changed. My nephew works at Microsoft and will be here tomorrow. he will help me figure it out. I believe that I told you that My D has been into my account so I will have to change my password, or save that for things "I want her to read". [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I wish you lived close by. My family, especially my 12yr old son, loves to have the kids around. <p>What are you doing tonight? We are going to the 7:00 mass and then we may see if we can find the houses with all the lights to view. My Dad was a Presbyterian minister and at 88 he is still active in the church. We are Catholic. Personally, I don't think that it matters what church one goes to, I believe God looks at our HEARTS. <p>I'll check in, from time to time, to see if you have written. I know this will be a busy time for you and your family and I do hope that it is as good as it CAN be.<p>Merry Christmas

gottruth?<p>Hi. I just stumbled across this thread. Thanks still reeling. Please excuse my interrupting your thread.<p>I can't email you. Says your acct is closed.<p>If you still have my email, get in touch, please.<p>Merry Christmas,
Estes<p>still reeling,

Hi Marry-<p>Merry Christmas! I am at my parents' house both my brothers are home too so it is very nice. Last night was the tough one, but I handled it well. <p>It wasn't my WH's day, but his family does Christmas on Christmas Eve so I let him have the kids. His family was all going out of town today and he has nowhere to bring the kids. It is so sad to me that he still after 11 months hasn't found a house of his own or at least one with a suitable roomate where the kids can go. Anyway, his family wanted to see me, I was in fact invited over for the whole evening, but opted out so that my WH could go comfortably. I went a couple of hours earlier than him, but he showed up early and I didn't leave. Things went fine, we are quite friendly. When I went to leave his mom walked me out and almost started to cry. She said she hates how things are going and wants our family back, but she also added that he has problems and she would rather see us apart and me content than us together again and me miserable like I was. Who knows, with everything that has been happening maybe he is on the downward slide. I sit back and say nothing. This is his battle, I have enabled him long enough.<p>Today he called and talked to us all. He talked to me for awhile, wished me a Merry Christmas, and sounded sad. He is all alone. His family is gone and the OG is with her family where he is not allowed. What a sad life. Of course the OG is only out of town until tomorrow so then he will have his fix again and everthing will be better again for the next couple of weeks as she is home for semester break from college. It is pathetic.<p>Tell me about scripting. I am very interested. By the way, I don't think you are a slow learner!<p>Is your D home for Christmas? I hope things are going well. I can't wait until you have e-mail again. Let me know when you can use it.<p>Well, I have so much to talk to you about, but the house is full of people and action. My four kids of course add to much of it.<p>It has been a pretty nice Christmas all things considered. The New Year can only get better.<p>Take care,
K

Estes and K<p>I think my new E-mail address is cschultr@attbi.com<p>My nephew was here Christmas Day and set up the E-mail so that you will get notice of the change.<p>We have a new computer and I need the motem hooked up on my old conputer to send the information out. This is such a process as we aren't too computer literate.<p>[ December 28, 2001: Message edited by: gottruth? ]</p>

K<p>I'm on the new computer and I just conceled my whole post to you so here goes again. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Scripting, OK
This is a "tool" given to me by my Al-anon sponcer, to avoid conflict with my D. She said that I need to be very strict with it and to keep a small tablet with me when I'm talking to her. So here is what I was ALLOWED to say for the past 6 mo.<p>OH (this can have several inflections)
Well (also said in different ways)
Realy
Hmn
I'm so sorry All in a sincere tone, of course.<p>Don't laugh because this is serious. Every time I deviated from this script, I knew it was NOT GOOD!
What it did for me was to keep me from giving my opinion, from lectureing, from educating and from asking questions. AND it worked!!!!!!!!!!<p>The big thing for me was to have someone to be accountable too. That meant that I had to be truthful and tell if I didn't stick to it AND to tell what I said that wandered off the script.<p>I didn't realize how powerful this was untill this past month. When I truely got out of the way, she started baiting me. I needed the script even more. It helped me to "think", partly because I wasn't having to think about my response. I could see more clearly how the bait was being laid and how easy it was for me to get sucked in.<p>I also believe that the charge to our credit card was acting out. She just was not getting the response she expected. This is all coming out in the counceling.<p>This past month I have been given the expended script. Again, I keep a copy in the car and in the house. Sometimes I have to take a "pause" to make sure I'm on script.<p>If this interestes you and you think it will apply to you, talk to me.<p>I'll give you the extended script when you feel ready. It's kind of a training process and I don't think it will take YOU so long.<p>I'm leaving Saturday and will be back the following Sat. I hope to talk to you before I go.

k
I just thought of something.
You have to talk to your H about the kids, sometimes these conversations turn into his complaining about how victimized he has been, this is the perfict time for the script. <p>You are not allowed to explain, justify, retionalize or be defensive. Hard, absolutly, but the effect is powerful. A simple "OH" can stop all of it dead. <p>Try out one of his conversations with you, on me.

Hi Marry-<p>Thanks for the scripting stuff. I know I will have many opportunities to use it and I will try. You are right, it seems pretty simple, but I can see how it would work. It will come in handy because as we enter the bargaining part of our divorce settlement he is crying victim more and more. I always tell him that I can't help things and that these are the consequences of his choices, but even when said calmly these things imply criticism and judgement. The scripting will be much better.<p>He is between a rock and a hard place. The little money he has is running out. He has this habit of selling things when in a pince. Well this past weekend he collected his only remaining gun from our house, he had taken the others during hunting season, but I learned from a mutual friend that he had sold them. The remaining gun was our sons and now it is gone. He also took his antler and fish mounts. My guess is that he has to make some sort of payment on the casino debt and has sold them. I wish he could see what he is doing. It is very hard to watch someone be so self-destructive. I don't say anything however. I know from his words that he thinks I don't suspect a thing. He told me he was taking the wall mounts because he'll need something when he gets his own place. A bulk mailing came from the casino the other day. When I gave it to him he said, "I wonder why they keep sending me these. I have no use for them, I haven't been there in ages." Again I played dumb knowing full well about his recent binge there. I simply said that maybe they were trying to get him back.<p>He had the kids with the OG yesterday. He brought them home with her in the truck. I know he thought that I'd be in the house and wouldn't even know, but I was running late and met them on the road. When she realized who I was (she has never seen me) she quickly turned her head. I'm sorry, it was so childish. If she is doing nothing wrong why does she hide. I also learned yesterday that her father is no longer even speaking to her, but her mother is afraid to cut off contact. I know that my H and kids picked her up yesterday and she was waiting outside for them. What type of relationship is worth this?This affair has ripped two families apart. I know she is young and naive. I also know my H is hiding his problems from her, but it is high time she pulls her head out of her @#$!<p>Write back and give me some insight please!<p>K

K<p>My E-address is cschultr@attbi.com I think that the one I gave to you and Estes was @attbn which is wrong.<p>Insight? Wow, I think you have it nailed! Truly, I could not have said it better.<p>He is on his way DOWN. He thinks you don't know. He is lying to HIMSELF. She is a fool. How clear is THIS?!<p>I can only feel pity. This is someone with alot of issues that are bringing him down and all you can do is watch. This is why I find the script so powerful. It forces you and me, to get out of the line of fire. All the responses do ie. "these are the consequenses", "this is what happens when", "it's your choise" etc. is make them hide in the JUSTIFYING, RATIONALIZING, BLAMING. When we stop the conversation with "OH" or "really", it ends. They are left with their own THOUGHTS, not ours.<p>Keep the script in front of you, it's HARD to stick to it.<p>You are doing great! You have alot of understanding of how this came about and the dysfunction behind it. I know that it is hard to seperate it from the personal YOU, but remember, this is about HIM. It effects you terribly, but it IS about HIM.<p>The counseling with my D is confusing. The good news (at least I think it is good news) is that I have learned patiences. I don't have to settle everyihing right now and time is on our side. Our next session is Jan. 9th.<p>On Dec23rd,D got a call from her birth mother inviting her to a christmas gathering where she could meet many members of her bio. family. She went and was very well recieved. This was a huge step for her birth mother and an important day for everyone involved. <p>There is movement here, in her relationship with me and with her discovery of herself. I'm hopeful and willing to waite to see what God has instore for us. <p>I will be gone for one week. Have a careful New Years. I'll talk to you next year.