[ December 27, 2001: Message edited by: OvrCs ]<p>[ January 04, 2002: Message edited by: OvrCs ]</p>

Nik-
You are in a very hard place and I sympathize. He has said he does not want to be married to you. He has said this with words and with actions. Yet, he is living under the same roof, acting and looking for all the world like you all are still a big happy family. This weirdness has got to be wearing on you.
Why do you feel you need to "push him to file"? Maybe you should be the one to go see an attorney and begin the process. Even if you file, it doesn't mean it is over. Perhaps that will jolt him into reality. Right now, what incentive does he have to leave or to stay and work on it? Can you afford the place all by yourself? What kind of custody arrangement would you be happy with?
These are the kinds of serious questions you need to be answering. You cannot move ahead while you are in quicksand.
Seems like it may be time for a change.
Just my thoughts.

Hi Nicole,<p>Well, I had my 9th year anniversary and nothing was said. My WW did not do or say anything about it on this special day. Unfortunately, your situation is like mine. My WW told me that she is done trying. We have two small boys, and it's tough because I still love her, but see no promise in the future. <p>D-day was 9 months ago and it has been down hill ever since. I finally had enough and filed last month. I still question myself if I did the right thing, but my W will always do something to show that I am making the right decision. It's tough to do, but no one should have to deal with the mental abuse from a WW spouse. <p>All I can say you will know when it's time to move on. Remember - Everything get better. Life is too short.<p>If you ever want to chat about your situation, my e-mail is zip090909@hotmail.com<p>Dino

Oh (((Nicole))),<p>I wish I could offer more but I atleast wanted to touch base with you before I leave work. I&#8217;m quite sure that conversation was devastating but in all honestly it is exactly what you expected. When y&#8217;all decided to do that duplex thing you knew that one day you&#8217;d have to face the crossroads and decide which path to follow. This has only prolonged having to choose a path.<p>&#8220;&#8221;&#8221;He also is angry with me because if I don't have hope, he knows my behavior will change and as he states it... it will negatively impact the kids. As I see it, it will negatively impact him and this arrangement&#8221;&#8221;&#8221;<p>I&#8217;m so glad that you can see right through that manipulating statement.<p>&#8220;&#8221;&#8221;Therefore, what do you think? Is it wrong for a me to push him, my H, into filing for the divorce?&#8221;&#8221;&#8221;<p>Not touching that with a ten foot poll but I will fully support any decision you make.<p>&#8220;&#8221;&#8221;&#8221;I'm feeling convicted by the biblical passage where it says, "Wives, if your spouse is an unbeliever and is willing to live with you, you are not to leave him but win him over with your actions, and not words." I'm not sure if he's an unbeliever... he once said he believed. I just don't know.&#8221;&#8221;&#8221;<p>By all means I won&#8217;t get into a biblical discussion but I will tell you that in that Great Book there are many other passages that condemn his behavior. I&#8217;ve already said to someone today that two wrongs don&#8217;t make a right. Just something to think about&#8230;.<p>Nicole I wish I could share or take this pain from you. I feel I&#8217;ve chatted with you enough to know you pretty well and let me say again you have a beautiful heart my dear. You are a wonderful person who has given so freely of herself. You&#8217;ve helped so many of us. Think of those kids and think of yourself and plot a course. <p>God be with you my sister.<p>As always and even a little extra tonight HUGS, THOUGHTS, & PRAYERS

<p>[ January 04, 2002: Message edited by: OvrCs ]</p>

<p>[ January 20, 2002: Message edited by: MMMMM ]</p>

Nicole,<p>the very first email i sent you stated, "You need a plan, preferably from the Harleys. . . ."<p>have you called them? If not, now is the time to do so, in order to get an experienced MB coach behind you to let you know how you are doing, what you can do better and how to interpret his responses correctly.<p>Second of all, you need the plan to decide when YOU want to file the papers. From my experience, when you file, or when you take control of the situation, he will get panicky, and difficult, as he is used to his manipulative control over you. once you file, neither of you are in control, and that will scare the crap out of him, and he may turn lightly irrational.<p>for all those reasons, you need the professional help of the Harley's, and just posting here is not a substitute.<p>now call and make your first appointment NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!<p>and excuse the assumption that you haven't already!! but you haven't mentioned that you have!<p>WIFTTy

<p>[ January 04, 2002: Message edited by: OvrCs ]</p>

Hi Nicole -<p>How funny that you are drawn to that verse in the bible about the unbelieving partner. I was convicted to not leave my marriage because of that very same passage. In short,(Or actually in kind of long [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] ) my H had an affair with one of my best friends while I was pregnant with our third child. He left, came back, left came back, trying to decide who he wanted to be with - me, his wife of 7.5 years, or the OW, who was his principal. (He was the superintendent.) He left in March for two months to live with her- our son was born in April. He asked to come back *again* in May. I did NOT want to get on that roller coaster again. But I could not be the one to say no to the chance at my family being whole again. (We also have a 4 year old and a 2 year old.) I felt very convicted to try again. I would rather have been electrically shocked to put myself in the vulnerable position of possibly getting left again by the person who had taken a vow saying we would be together until death do us part, but I took that vow too. <p>So I moved my family from the beautiful mountains and a great job for me to be a stay at home mom in a dreadful little town on the plains. I trusted that God would take care of us. Well, my H cried and grieved and was such a shell of a man after breaking it off with the OW, and I kept asking God to let me maintain some semblance of dignity, and to let me leave. It was a nightmare. My H could care LESS about me and the children, including our now newborn, and I felt like the most unwanted person on earth. But I felt like God wanted me to wait, and to not be the one to leave. I knew that inevitably, he would recontact her and resume the affair. I wanted so badly to be the one to leave, to be able to say I left because I had too much pride to be treated like that, and because there was nothing in it for me. But God kept telling me to wait. I was the one to file for divorce in March when he originally left. He had abandoned us, and I wanted nothing to do with him. I put the proceedings on hold when he asked us back in May. How much satisfaction I would've received momentarily from serving him with papers and regaining control of the situation. But I kept feeling like I should wait.<p>Finally ( I know this is long, sorry!) he regained contact with her and asked us to leave.(His job provided a house on the school property and we had sold our old house in the mountains, so we would be the ones to leave.) I knew it was coming, and it still hurt me unbearably. BUT, I did what I think God asked of me. I put aside my pride and personal feelings, and gave 200% to trying to make my marriage work.<p>We divorced in October, and he married the OW 3 days after our divorce was final. I moved to a new town with my 3 children. I don't regret what I did. I know I did everything I could to save our marriage. I wish it hadn't been so drawn out, but maybe I needed to know what kind of person my spouse had become. Who knows why, but I did trust. And I feel at peace with my decisions. I hope that you can find the same peace with whatever you decide. Please e-mail me if you want - I really feel for you, as I know some of what you are going through. (kmf118@aol.com)<p>WhoamInow (Krista)

OvrCsMB@aol.com<p>[ January 04, 2002: Message edited by: OvrCs ]</p>

Nicole, I'm very sorry to hear the hurt in your "voice." It absolutely stinks that things have gone the way they have for you (selfishly, it also worries me, because I can imagine my wife and I getting to the same point). Take all my advice with a grain of salt- some people say I'm letting my wife walk all over me, so I'm hardly an expert in this. But:<p>I think Wiffle may be on the right track- as much as I dispise divorce, and believe that the one who doesn't value the marriage should be the one to take steps to end it, perhaps for your own peace of mind, you need to take steps to start remaking your life. You don't want to live the way you're living, and if you don't do something, either start the process yourself or "push him" to it, he won't make the changes.<p>There might be some things short of filing you can do to slap some sense into him (though I suggest you talk to an attorney anyway- be prepared). Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall you were still doing a lot for him- cleaning, cooking, shopping, etc. If that's true, maybe it's time you stopped cold. Do your best to communicate to him that this is not spite, but rather you setting boundaries. If he won't meet your needs, you can't be forced to meet his.<p>It might also help if you started a schedule of "kid duty," since you'll have to have one in order to file papers. Set up some nights when he is responsible for the kids, and then get out of the house. Don't even tell him where you're going- you're going out. You'll be back when you feel like it. If he presses, be vauge- "out with some friends." "Shopping, maybe coffee." After a D, that's the way he'll be whenever the kids are with him, so give him a taste of it now.<p>According to what I've read, one tenet of dealing with mid-life crisis is to neither cause a crisis, nor prevent it from occuring. You've done a lot of things that have prevented him from living with the consequences of his actions. Stopping isn't "causing" a crisis- hell, maybe he'll be able to handle it, I don't know- but it sure qualifies as not preventing one. Get out of his way, and let him live with the consequences of his actions.

Hi OvrCs,<p>It just seems to me that if you can't live like this any longer, you have to be the one to do something about it. I see no reason to try to push the other spouse to file. If you want to change the situation, you're the only one who can do something about it in any case.<p>I second Wiffle's response. Read that one again. Ask yourself the tough questions. Then you can respond to them. He seems to have no motivation to change the situation, so you'll have to be the one to do it.<p>If you push him to file, that means you want a divorce. So if you want a divorce, why not file for it yourself?<p>Honestly, the only way I can think of to "push" him to file is to make life so unpleasant for him that he feels he needs to. That's obviously not an option, and shouldn't be for anyone anyway.<p>stable guy

Hi Nicole,<p>It's been a long time since I've spoken with you, and I'm so sorry to hear these latest events!<p>I guess YOU, in your heart, know the answer. Only you know if you can stand one more year, one more night, one more moment of life like this. Can you?<p>If you do choose to file, you can know that you did everything possible to make it work. If you choose not to file, you will be given strength to endure - don't you think?<p>You are a good, good women, mother and wife. Don't forget that!

you are doing the right thing! pray and pray for your marriage to be restored, then go to a website called restorem.org, it will give you the hope you need to continue on.

<p>[ January 04, 2002: Message edited by: OvrCs ]</p>

Nicole,<p>Sorry I have responded before but I'm elbow deep in primer and now paint. Kids will be home Sunday and I want son's room to be ready. The new ceiling fan is great. Motor is a ball glove and the globe is the ball. Fan blades are baseball bats. It's so cute. Like his mom, he is a huge baseball fan. <p>I do have to admit to going a bit overboard because this theme is so easy. I've bought baseball door knobs, fan pulls, rugs, tables etc. <p>As for your guilt about filing.... DON'T BLAME YOURSELF... I didn't want the divorce and I felt bad when I filed but I have never regretted it. Remember when I posted that one night eating supper, a peace came over me and I knew that getting on with my life was what I had to do. Not matter what I wanted and how much I wanted it, my situation was not going to change. I did all I could and you have too.<p>I struggle just because my H comes by on school mornings, I would lose my mind if he lived in my house. <p>Try to catch the Brooks & Dunn song called The Long Goodbye. It tells me the reality I'm facing. I hope it helps you too.<p>Be strong, pray... hey that's your advice to others. Use it for yourself. I will pray for you too.<p>On a different note, I'm worried about Mike again. Haven't heard from him in 5 days. Have you heard anything?<p>Thanks and God Bless!<p>Lynn

Nicole,<p>Sorry I have responded before but I'm elbow deep in primer and now paint. Kids will be home Sunday and I want son's room to be ready. The new ceiling fan is great. Motor is a ball glove and the globe is the ball. Fan blades are baseball bats. It's so cute. Like his mom, he is a huge baseball fan. <p>I do have to admit to going a bit overboard because this theme is so easy. I've bought baseball door knobs, fan pulls, rugs, tables etc. <p>As for your guilt about filing.... DON'T BLAME YOURSELF... I didn't want the divorce and I felt bad when I filed but I have never regretted it. Remember when I posted that one night eating supper, a peace came over me and I knew that getting on with my life was what I had to do. Not matter what I wanted and how much I wanted it, my situation was not going to change. I did all I could and you have too.<p>I struggle just because my H comes by on school mornings, I would lose my mind if he lived in my house. <p>Try to catch the Brooks & Dunn song called The Long Goodbye. It tells me the reality I'm facing. I hope it helps you too.<p>Be strong, pray... hey that's your advice to others. Use it for yourself. I will pray for you too.<p>On a different note, I'm worried about Mike again. Haven't heard from him in 5 days. Have you heard anything?<p>Thanks and God Bless!<p>Lynn

((((Nicole))))<p>I don't feel I can offer you any solid advice either way, I've been gone from the boards for too long, but I still remember your whole situation before I left and the duplex situation. <p>I think everyone has very valid points and in the end, only you can make that decision. I would just be very sure you're ready to completely give up on the marriage before pushing for divorce. <p>I pushed for mine out of anger, and now I'm still wishing I just let it happen slower, but being a BS, it's hard to think straight at times. <p>Even after divorce, reconciliation is possible (like Jayhawk), but I still think it's rare, and in your case, you still don't have that total seperation yet. It sounds like this is his way of hanging out til the kids are 'old enough to understand', by that high school comment, that might push me over the edge too. <p>You can't date until you divorce, and you can't live happily the way you are, and I don't know even if you were dating one day, if a new man would take kindly to you and your ex living in that situation but it definetly sounds very complicated.<p>Sending you hugs, Dana

Thanks for the hugs... and thoughtful words...<p>Shalom,
Nicole