I have been wondering about this.....my stbxh and I have been married for 8 years and he decided to leave me and our two boys in August of this year. All he said was that he wasn't happy. I found out that he was talking to a girl at work and they were friends. I have no idea how long this has been going on. Then he calls me and tells me they are going to start dating. I see an emotional affair that I am pretty sure has turned physical. We are still legally married, the divorce is still pending and we have not been legally separated. Is this not considered adultery if he is having a physical affair and we are still legally married even though we don't live together anymore? He told me I need to try and get on with my life, we are not married anymore. Is this to justify his actions? He got upset when I told him that we were still married. Also, whenever he has the boys for visitation he always has this ow with him. Why is that? Why can't he take care of his children without this ow around all of the time? Is he afraid to be alone? I have been and still am so very bitter and angry towards him and especially towards this other woman. I have been praying every day, sometimes two or three times a day or more, because I know I need to get past this but it is very difficult. How do you get past this anger and bitterness? I don't like these feelings at all.<p>Thank you,
Kathy

Hello AbandonedMom,<p>Sounds grim... <p>This scenario happend here in MA where the couple was 'seperated' and the 'marriage was over'. However, the W (BS) won a $4 million lottery. All of a sudden the WH sued for half claiming they were married. He won.<p>You both ARE married. Perhaps his adultery will help you in a D. <p>Sorry... I don't know how I would get past it either except to focus on the kids and remain busy.<p>My dad was the perpetual WS and it provided a huge incentive for me to NOT be like him.<p>Hopefully the kids will see that honor and integrity is a choice and many adults don't choos it.<p>[ December 31, 2001: Message edited by: Not in my world... ]</p>

Dear Kathy - Depending on what state you live in, it could still be considered adultery, and you can file for divorce on those grounds. If he has not filed for divorce or a legal separation, I think it is still adultery as far as the law is concerned. But not all states recognize grounds when filing for divorce. Morally, I would say yes it is adultery. You are still legally married. To my mind, married is married!! Chances are, he has been having an affair for some time, but has kept it quiet until now, when he has decided to definitely leave the marriage.<p>My (now ex-) husband pulled the same routine. Told me he had to move out so he could find out why he was so unhappy. Turned out he was having an affair that started five months previously. I guess she had given him an ultimatum so he decided that she was a better deal than me, and that if he didn't leave me, she would dump him. Still, even after he moved out, it took him 2.5 years to finally settle our divorce. I filed against him, citing the grounds as adultery (I named her in my petition), and desertion, as he walked out on me with no legal agreement in place. In my state, there is no legal separation - you are either legally married or divorced. If one spouse leaves the marital home, not intending to come back (moves out all their belongings) without a stipulation agreement in place, they are considered to have deserted their spouse/children. Also, I had to file in order to be granted possesion of the home and spousal support. <p>My advice is to get a lawyer as soon as possible and find out what the laws are in your state. You must protect yourself financially, especially if you have children. However, if you feel that there is a good chance your marriage can be saved, follow Plan A discribed here and then prepare yourself for a bumpy ride. This is the hardest thing that all of us here have been through. It does get better, but only after it gets worse. I would have done anything to save my marriage, but my H was determined to end it. Nothing I did or said made any difference. I had to accept this, which was not easy, nor did it happen quickly by any means. Not all cases happen this way though. Some marriages can be saved by one partner, even when the other thinks they are sure they want to leave. Read everything here on this site, and keep posting. We are all praying for you.<p>[ December 31, 2001: Message edited by: Lady M ]</p>

Whoa Boy!! I started out where you are at now around last March. it has been a year from hell. Things still are not complete. I pray for a reconsilitaion & hope Im not being an idiot. <p>My hubby had a "friend" at work. Alot went on & I kept denying my suspicions- that he couldnt possibly do that to me. I suspected emotional affair & fought on that. He denied everything adamently & yet was with her at work all day every day (not working). I found out months later that somewhere along the way it was definately physical. <p>He started out same as yours. Needing space, leave him alone, etc. Wanting to move out, threatening to sell our house etc but all the while still living in our house. He he had moved into the other bedroom months ago. We did nothing together not even talk. I cried everytime I went to the grocery/dept store. Everything reminded me of him.
Its been 10 months & I still think of him & miss him. OW divorced her H last July & I knew where she lived. I saw my H's truck there more than once. Yet he was always home to sleep except 3 or 4 nights (when her ex had their child!!). Its sickening. He filed after Thanksgiving. Then moved out at my suggestion. No matter how awful it was I refused to file. For once in his life, He had to take responsibilty for his choices!! Currently I pray for a dismissal!!<p>Anyway, I think you need to tell your husband if he's not happy he needs to move out & if it pisses him off make out like you only mean for a month or a few to see if if works out better. STOP taking care of him RIGHT NOW! I couldnt stop for the longest time. No cooking, laundry etc for him. Let HER do it or he can do his own!! Stay away from him in the house. Dont even talk to him unless he speaks to you. Try to avoid getting into arguments as much as possible. You have to take a deep breath & act like YOU DONT NEED HIM for anything!! Its very hard, but you must. Then, trust me whether he says anything or not, he will notice!! Work toward not needing him for real. HEs not a child. You dont need to be there for him. Dont give him the time of day, for what hes done. PS. Yes it is adultery. He betrayed your committment. He killed the bond of intimacy you had. He shared his better self with another woman, and sorry but it DOES end up with sex too.<p>PLEASE rediscover any hobbies you had. What do you like to do?? Leave him out of the equation. I know it must be tough with kids, I have none. Do stuff with them on your own. Spend alot of time with female friends whom you can trust and lean on. You need a huge support system. I spent lots of time at bookstores & coofee shops & parks by nmyself and crying too. I lost 30lbs & had trouble sleeping. I started individual counseling and still see her almost weekly. Think about taking antidepressants. It may take a few weeks but THEY REALLY HELP. It stops those thoughts racing through your mind all day & night & you'll be better able to focus on other things. <p>I didnt always follow the advice of those on this board but looking back, they were all RIGHT! They saw what was in store for me. Dont try to 2nd guess your husband, what he's feeling? thinking? doing? We cant control it at all. They make the decisions by themselves. I think mine is slowly coming out of the fog. But I am scared of taking him back too soon & getting hurt again. I went thru hell. But now people notice how much more relaxed I am. I got a new job that I love & am more independant than I allowed myself to be in years. (I think my H can see this & its why he hangs around me still. Hes had his own apartment for about 2 months & I think hes starting to realize the grass is not always greener. <p>Please focus on yourself. Get some new clothes or go do some activity that will make you feel more soothed with yourself!! Im thinking of you & what rollercoaster of emotions you are being put thru. I will pray that you can find some peace in your life & whatever will be best for YOU and your kids. Take care.

I am not sure why you asked this question, could you elaborate? You recieved some good (and the usual) advice re your circumstances, I am just gonna comment on your actual question.<p>Adultery has several components, legal, religious, ethical, and intent. It depends on what is important to you at any given time.<p>1. Legal, that is determined by the state you live in, and (I think) includes most heavy sexual behaviour, not just intercourse. Your state will spell it out specifically in it's law books as well as the consequences. Since marriage is primarily a legal contract (socially speaking) you have definite rights and remedies if a spouse breaks the contract, it is appropriate you find out for your self-preservation.<p>2. Religious can vary, I am only famililar with Christianity. The Bible is very specific, adultery is two things...1 is a physical act of intercourse... 2. Is the intent to have intercourse with someone, whether you act on it, and even if they do not know you desire them...we usually call this lust, and there are arguments that it is the same as actually having intercourse, others say it is not the same, but very serious. This is interesting cause the Bible implies permission to leave a marriage for adultery, if this is so, and lust is adultery, one can leave a marriage whether your spouse has actuall acted on the lust or not. <p>In any event marital issues get very confusing re God's plan for us, and people regularly line up to tell you what you are supposed to do in marriage....but the fact is no one knows God's will for any of us re marriage, and since marriage involves the freewill choices of 2 different people, it is unclear when exactly you are really married, which also impacts when (and whether) adultery has occured. This is further complicated by arguments over divorce and remarriage. Some argue if a divorce person remarries they are committing adultery. There is also the argument since adultery is a violation of a oneflesh bond (which may or may not have occured when we marry someone, cause it is not determined by a marriage license, but by other spiritual issues), that a single (never married) person cannot commit adultery. So as a married person you are, but if your partner is single they are not. This does not mean everything is well. There are specific prohibitions against primiscuity, and pre-marital sex, they fall under the word pornea, and is why lots of other sexual activity (including porn) is sinful. Clearly sexual activity with someone other than your spouse (assuming the oneflesh union occured) is still wrong, it is akin to greed, gluttony, vanity, etc, it is a sexual sin against the marriage. <p>Likewise emotional affairs are also sin against the marriage. It is not so much the actual acts or behaviours (emotional or physical) that are the issue, they really aren't that important....what is important is the (for wont of a better word) the committment to your spouse. The essence of marriage is a pouring of 2 people into each other, they become one. Trust is implied in this process, from that arises the vulnerability necessary for you to feel completely safe, where you know (without even having to dwell on it, or think about it) your back is always covered, you are always protected, much like we know God is always there. This is very hard to achieve, and cannot be done just cause we want to with someone (but that is another issue). The reality of a spouse diverting emotional resources (focus) to another is that they break that trust, and reveal there is no oneflesh. One now has to deal with what do they have, a potential oneflesh union that has been derailed by human weakness, and can be restored....or (much more common) must one come to accept they are trying to bond with someone and it will not work (regardless of the reasons).<p>3. Ethical involves promises. In a civilized society (and we all do want a civilized society..right?) promises are important. The althernative is a world ruled by lawyers, and written contracts. Adultery in an ethical sense seems to have come to mean pretty much any physical lust (acted on) for another. If you kiss and or hug someone cause you are just a touchy feely person, and were expressing freindship, compassion, happiness, whatever...fine. But if you kiss or hug someone cause you enjoy the sexual undercurrent, then you have been adulterous. This includes the whole gamut of goo goo eyes, body contact (leans, and hand touching, etc, etc,), revealing body parts, anyways all the stuff that folks claim didn't mean anything....and of course sexual contact, basically anything designed to fire off our sexual circuits, create desire. <p>Folks tend to assign value, well he kissed but they didn't have sex, or they got naked, but didn't have intercourse.... really doesn't make any difference, this is not a sprting event where you keep rules, and assign a winner....the point is trust is broken, bonded people do not even want to feel sexual desire for another, much less act on it in any way. Acts or just acts, done, over with, whether it is goo goo eyes, or oral sex, makes no real difference....a promise has been broken. That promise is physical exclusivity for a spouse. Marriage does not mean people stop interracting with others, in a variety of ways, and liking someone else can even invcolve the recognition of physical attraction, that is perfectly normal, and part of being human, one does not even have to deny it...BUT the deal is you do not act on it, you make an exclusive agreement with your spouse....if you cannot honor that (for whatever reason) you must tell them, and divorce or whatever. <p>Emotional exclusivity is a part of marriage too, but it is a lot more confusing, and I think innocently violated often. But it is the same thing, you have promised to a spouse to be honest (something that is violated constantly) about everything, and reveal yourself completely....is a marital problem when do not do this with spouse, but is a violation when you do it with someone else instead. It is emotional adultery essentially, and just as devastating, if not worse.....the actual betrayal of a physical act is not so much the act, it is done and over with and really means little, the betrayal is the implication of emotional connections to someone else. You cannot have a marital oneflesh committment with divided loyalties. This is the rock marital recoveries often fail upon. The ws comes back, but their heart is forever split, and the more perceptive (and absolute) bs will not live like that.<p>4. Last is intent. Even if a spouse has never acted emotionallly or physically with another, they may still be guilty. Most of these kinds of people are sociopaths of one kind or another. Their psychology is all about them. They do what is good for them, their intent is to make their life the best possible. There are many many people like this, and most are married, IMO (just an opinion) probably 20-40% of marriages have at least one partner who is incapable of the bonds marriage implies, and are in it just for their own benefit. The moment the marriage no longer satisfies their needs they are gone, be it by an affair, abandonment, obsession (with work, alcohol, hobbies/friends) whatever. Most know they are married to such a person, they just kid themselves....but if you live a marriage where you are always emotionally off balance, never really sure you are loved and chosen, where you walk on eggshells, where anger is used alot, you are probably married to a sociopath, and IMO that is a form of adultery, they are in-love with another person than you.... themself. And best thing to do, is leave them as soon as you can, and after awhile you will recover, the sun will come back out, and you will wonder why you ever lived like that.<p>so to answer your question is an affair adultery, yes, in all cases, cause adultery covers a lot of ground.....but if only mean in a religious sense, than not necessarily. But the real issue is not the affair, it is the marriage....if a marriage is not working (meaning both people are not enthusiastic and happy with it), then action needs to be taken....an affair is only a sympton of a dysfunctional marriage, and means nothing much in itself....it is what follows that is important. A divorce is NEVER about an affair, a divorce is about the failure of a marital effort. A bs who makes the issue about the affair, makes a grave mistake, they are focusing in the wrong place, and may actually hasten the failure of a marriage that could (possibly) have been saved. It is important to dissect the affair, and to require it end, but blame, and punishment, and anger, are counter-productive. ( a little of this is ok at discovery, there is a short period of crazy times, but if get stuck there the marriage is in even more trouble. For some the affair itself is enough, they recognize the marriage is not going to work, and they end it, that is ok, as long as it is cause of an assessment of the marriage, not a punishment. Most of the time the affair does not end the marriage, but it does (or should) push people into serious marital repair efforts, that either work or not.<p>Actually, should clarify...an affair does end the old marriage, it is gone, the affair blew it away....but one still has the legal contract, the history and the kids...so what the two do is see if they can (and want to) craft a new marriage, they essentially remarry....in fact I think any actual recover should end in a new marriage ceremony, freely entered by both parties, vows made again, etc etc..... the difference now should be the two are fully informed and trained in what they do, and choose it freely, not from duty or guilt or fear....just like they had met for the first time, dated, fell in love, and chose each ohter.<p>[ January 15, 2002: Message edited by: sad_n_lonely ]<p>[ January 15, 2002: Message edited by: sad_n_lonely ]</p>

SNL - Great post!! I agree with mostly everything you wrote, except for the divorce never being about an affair. Obviously, if the desire to divorce is only because the marriage is damaged, more people would divorce without first having affairs. Most long-term, first marriages end as a result of infidelity. Frank Pittman observed the same in his long-time experience and comments that divorce most often happens because someone is committing adultery and will not stop. Either the BS decides that they cannot bear their partners adultery and divorces the WS, or the WS decides that the new partner is a "better deal", and decides to divorce WS to be with new, improved partner. Once a WS goes all the way to infidelity, it can seem to some of them (and their BS) that they might as well divorce, given the affair and all the pain. If the affair had not have happened, WS might have more of a reason to repair the marriage (not being in the fog of an affair), and BS, if wanting to divorce because of the affair, might just give the marriage another chance as well. This is not to say that BS and WS don't both bear some responsbility for the state of the marriage. But it is much easier to put a marriage back together that has not been damaged by one partner's affair. It's so much easier to leave a damaged marriage when the grass seems so much greener with someone else (after sampling the wares, of course!!) But the person who goes outside of the marriage without first giving their spouse a chance to know of their (WS)'s unhappiness and desire to leave, and without giving the marriage a fair chance, in my mind gets a larger share of the blame for the final destruction of the marriage. If may take two to make a marriage or to weaken or damage it, it only takes one partner's actions to end it once and for all. It seems most marriages I have read about here consist of one partner who wants out and one partner who wants to work it out. And the partner that most often wants out is the WS. JMHO.<p>[ January 15, 2002: Message edited by: Lady M ]</p>

lm...I agree with mostly everything you wrote, except for the divorce never being about an affair. Obviously, if the desire to divorce is only because the marriage is damaged, more people would divorce without first having affairs. <p>snl...I am not so sure. An affair does not just occur out of the blue, it is the consequence of first being married to a dysfunctional partner.....or a complete breakdown of the marriage, when must have "preceeded" the affair.<p>lm....Most long-term, first marriages end as a result of infidelity. Frank Pittman observed the same in his long-time experience and comments that divorce most often happens because someone is committing adultery and will not stop. <p>snl...Ok, but again, why would they not stop? The affair is not the reason for the divorce, it is the means, often the means to escape from someone who refuses to agree to a divorce for any other reason...sure one could just divorce them anyways, but many people just cannot get themselves to do that, so they find another way.<p>lm...But the person who goes outside of the marriage without first giving their spouse a chance to know of their (WS)'s unhappiness and desire to leave,<p>snl...I suspect in most cases the unhappiness was voiced, or should have been observed...what is more common is one or both marital partners deliverately ignore this stuff.<p>lm....It seems most marriages I have read about here consist of one partner who wants out and one partner who wants to work it out. And the partner that most often wants out is the WS<p>snl...Well, that kinda follows I guess, a ws would most likely be the one wanting the marriage less. It is interesting that so often people want to save the marriage, it is one of the things I have tried to understand, and near as I can tell people are afraid to start over, IMO an affair should be inclined to lead to a divorce cause it reveals that particular couple will be very unlikely to ever bond much, although they may settle for each other if a good offer is made. IMO an affair reveals an awful lot about reality.