I have a question. I was not sure if I should post this in emotional needs or infidelity and so I put it in the others topic area. First, a bit of background: I am in my 30’s and have been married for going on 8 years now. My wife and I have had a really tough 7th year and it nearly ended the marriage. In many ways, we are still healing from wounds inflicted (both self inflicted and from each other) during the 7th year. From the beginning, my wife knew that I had a curiosity about trying bisexuality on my part. At first, this idea seemed to work out well as that idea appealed to her also. All it turned out to be so far is a fantasy and even through all the changes that we have both gone through, it still remains. Sex is not the greatest right now with my wife and I really want to improve it. <P>I really hesitate to bring it up to my wife because it does involve a third party. I think that just talking about the fantasy may make her feel that I want to cheat on her. I do not want to do that but at the same time, it is a fantasy that I would like to try. Part of what makes it such a great fantasy is knowing that she likes it too. She has always wanted to see that. Should I try to tell her that I have been thinking about it? If so, how do I make it clear that I only want to take it as far as she wants or feels comfortable with? <BR>

Well it is Dec 6th and no reply yet so...<BR>My wife and I have a moral code that we live by that is based on the teachings in the Bible. The fantasy you are pondering violates our moral code so I can not encourage you to persue it. It is also widely accepted that extra people in the marriage bed leads to the eventual end of the marriage. I have never heard of a marriage that has lasted once this boundary is crossed. Now before you assume that we are prudes that only have sex to procreate please realize that we have only a couple of rules.<P>1. We will never include others <BR>2. We are free to ask for anything<BR>3. We are free to say no to any request even if we have said yes before.<P>Thats it! My personal advice is to put aside this fantasy. It is a dead end.

<small>[ January 24, 2005, 05:29 PM: Message edited by: hanora ]</small>

Dear Trusting,<P>I agree with the above two posts. In particular, Mudder's three rules are great to follow to ensure a healthy sexual relationship. Your wedding vows are the foundation upon which your marriage rests, and your vows included fidelity. Even if your wife has expressed an interest in including others, your committment to each other precludes it. I'll get off my soapbox now.

trusting, i've tried the 3some thing with a 2nd woman and it was wonderful. it didn't have any negative impact on my marriage of 27 years. i would do it again and more often if i/we knew of someone but we don't.<BR>i think in your case, you should discreetly/secretly try the bi-sexual part on your own. you may find you don't like it at all or that it's the thing you like most. in any event, you need to know and the sooner the better. otherwise, one day, perhaps when you are in your 50s, you will explore that part of you. it would be awful to learn at that late age what you had missed for so long. on the otherhand, if you find then that you don't like it, you will have carried the fantacy around for a life time for nothing.<BR>sometimes you just have to stop going by the book that someone else wrote and strike out on your own.<BR>i suggest you go for it and get it over with.<BR>good luck!!

Trusting--<P>You're obviously getting varied responses to your questions. It's one of those subjects on which people usually have strong opinions, black and white, rarely a gray.<P>I sway toward the open-mindedness frankie shares, BUT without the secretiveness. In sex exploration between a committed couple, they must be in agreement with their choices...in ALL things, or you just crossed the line into infidelity, and/or dishonesty, and/or selfish demands, and/or a whole barrelful of monkeys of other problems. <P>Yes, I think you should be honest with your W about your feelings. And ask her how she feels too. Is she willing to cross-over from fantasy to reality?<P>"If so, how do I make it clear that I only want to take it as far as she wants or feels comfortable with?"--By telling her just that.<P>Mudder says he's never heard of a marriage that's lasted once that boundary (more-somes) was crossed. I think that's most definitely true in shaky marriage scenarios where one is overwhelming the other with a selfish demand to try something the other really doesn't want. All downhill from there. On the other hand, couples who have crossed that line successfully probably don't talk about it. <P><P>------------------<BR>Laura<P>"I cannot care a little for you. I love you only just enough to love you all the way."~~Rod McKuen<P>

A fantasy is a fantasy because using only your mind, everything can be perfect which is rarely the case in real life.

Hmm, My husband and a friend of his shared the friends wife, sexually. It led them into an affair that nearly ended our marriage.<P>This is a bad idea, I urge you to keep it a fantasy, sex is never "just sex" there are strong emotions involved here. Evidently you don't think your wife would be pleased with this, if you do it anyway, you risk it all, your marriage may never recover.<P>Just a fair warning, from someone who has been hurt by someone else's fantasys.<P>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>

Oh man, this is a tough one.<P>I experienced a three-some when I was in college. I had fantasized about it, so when the opportunity presented itself, I took it. What I discovered is that reality is not nearly as fantastic as fantasy. Not even close. And the great thing about a fantasy: when it's over, it's over. No guilt, no running into the third party at the supermarket, no emotional baggage to carry around because it's all in your mind. You're not hurting anyone, and you're not hurting yourself.<P>I strongly encourage you to talk to your wife about it. Perhaps you two can incorporate your fantasy into your sex life without actually involving a third person. Videos, toys, role playing, etc.<P>Just my thoughts.

at one time, a very short while ago, people were condemed by the community at large for having, buying, looking at or talking about sex videos, sex toys, playing roles- in the context of this discussion. i remember when condoms were available only from behind the drug store counter or from the guy at the service station, now they are available just about everywhere. the homosexual/bi-sexual subject was taboo, you would be a fool to talk about it in mixed company.<BR>so, for all you pruds, please keep this in mind. what's ok now, in many cases was not ok a few years ago. what's taboo today may very likely be routine a few years from now. just think, some years ago, sex was performed for procreation only. at least that's what was preached.<BR>ca123, i see you're still claiming to follow the straight and narrow. good for you, most people will claim to support for that.<BR>as far as i'm concerned, the lines are your friend, good girl.

ca123, sorry bout that. i said "good girl", i meant to write, "good boy".

In the good 'ol days of my marriage we used fantasies to spice up our sex life, most times these fantasies included a third party and my wife's favorites were with women. Usually the third party was someone we knew & liked or bluntly somebody without a face, race or any other physical definition but gender.<P>Today my wife is having an affair with another woman and I just wonder if acting at least some fantasy would had improve our marriage or make it worse. She says she's always been bi-sexual but prefers woman; maybe, but if our marriage had been better off she wouldn't had looked for something outside of it. What she is doing hurts, if you love her don't do it to your wife "to find out". Cheating is cheating regardless if it is with a person of the same or the opposite sex.<P>So I don't agree with Frankie (but I respect his opinion) about you "discreetly/secretly try the bi-sexual part on your own". Marriage is a two-way street and although EVERYTHING could be permitted BOTH (the couple) have to agree upon. Have these European friends in NYC, married for 20 years who have participated in threesomes, foursomes, orgies and all kinds of sexual variations; it's fine for them although it wouldn't be fine for me, but it is THEIR MARRIAGE AND THEY care for & love each other. "Whatever blows their skirt up," they say (Notice: THEIR skirt).<P>ThisAlex<P>------------------<BR>Live and learn

Frankie,<P>Many things that are socially acceptable are not healthy for the individuals and for society at large. Social acceptance should never be the litmus test for whether something is right or wrong. <P>I must have been mistaken but I thought TRUSTING asking about exploring his fantasy in the context of maintaining a healthy loving and long lasting marriage. I took a peek at your profile and IMHO you don't have a track record that would make me want to take your advice on helping my marriage. Now if TRUSTING was asking about how to get HIS jollys then I think you are on the right track. But what do I know? I'm just a guy who wants to stay happily married to the same woman for my whole life. I guess that does make me a prud.<P>Trusting,<BR>Did you take marriage vows that included the promise to keep yourself only for your wife? If you did, the main question you need to answer is do you want to break those vows. I have first hand experience with living out fantasies (not this particular one) and I would agree with the previous post that said the fantasy is often better and more fun then the reality of acting it out. Please respond so we know you have been reading here.<P>Thanks

Uh, Frankie, I am not a prude, I am just trying to let this man know that he is playing with fire here. Yes, my marriage survived what Bozo did, barely.<P>Not every wife can or will forgive this. It's been over a year for us, and believe me I still haven't forgotten what he did, and there is still lots of pain.<P>Marriage is not a game, and you can't play games with it, without someone getting hurt.<P>I hate to see people make the mistakes that changed my life forever. And no for the better either.<P>If he goes off and does this w/o his wifes knowledge isn't it cheating? Infidelity is NEVER ok. How many of us are here because of the pain brought on by infidelity? A lot of us! <P>And if the wife agrees to this, what happens if he likes the guy better, it has been known to happen, or what if SHE likes the om better afterward? This is just too risky.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>

i beleive trusting has a fantacy involving homosexuality. i also believe having a fantacy is nothing more that saying you want to do something. so, trusting wants to have sex with a man but also feels ansioius about it. so he calls it a fantasy.<BR>he must find out if he likes homosexuality. by practicing decipline and refraining from homosexuality, he is simply suppressing what may be his true orientation. haven't we all heard of men, in their 40/50(s) finally conceding to their homosexual tendacy? <BR>so, i think he should find out what he wants and the sooner the better. society puts tremendous pressure on men to stay the hetersexual course making if very difficult for men to do what their must. on the other hand, women don't experience the same pressure. should he take his wife with him when he decides to find out. most of you would say yes, one must be absolutly honest. that is so idealistic. life isn't like that.<BR>mudder, name a few things society accepts that isn't good for the individual or society at large. many times, if not most times, society begins to accept a behavior, like when the residents of salem began to accept behaviour once attributed to witchcraft, society realized an improvment and rarely goes back to the good ole days. there was a time when a man could beat his wife anytime he saw fit, even if it wasn't needed. thank goodness we changed and probably won't go back. at that time, people thought it was wrong to interfer with the inner workings of a marriage. it's ok now. society rarely changes just for the hell of it. pressure on the indiviual forces each to change. i don't know of anything that society at large accepts that isn't good for the overall good. of course, things aren't perfect but everything is much better now than ever before. at one time we couldn't speak of homosexuality. <BR> the vows, yea that's another thing, why is it so many people are so shocked when the vow someone took to love them forever, no matter what, is broken when in reality, they are broken more often than not. shouldn't we conceid they are not as air tight as the words would say? <BR>i read on the board, all the time. she, its'usually a she, vowed to love me forever, then when off and did it with another man, how could she. she took a vow, she promised. how could she break a vow? how, how, how, why, why, why. my answer, because that's what people do. that's what they have always done and will continue to do. so, to next time someone vows to love you foreever, please remember, the other person probably can't or isn't thinking about what forever means. they want to get married and get on with life, that's all.<BR>you may remain idealistic for the rest of your life and that will not change reality. most of those who are victims would have had the affair had the opportinity presented itself.<BR>mudder, so, based on the tiny bit of information i entered into my profile, you can't take my advice. so listen to all the rest and still you will do whatever you were going to do anyway. you'll look for the words that support what you already think anyway. otherwise, why not just ask your spiritual leader? surely he/she can point you to a verse that will unequevacably tell you what is right.<BR>

I think it is a mistake to think that fantasy equates with desire. Think about the things people fantasize about, a great many of them are things they would never want to experience in real life.<P>A threesome is not necessarily a death sentence for a marriage, but it will surely be a strain. If trusting wants to explore the gay life, let him tell his wife, leave and do the scene. If he decides to come back, after suitable biological testing she may decide to accept him. Anything else is <BR>reprehensible.<P>This is a bit hard to admit, but in the hope that it will help, I will say it. We had a threesome at my H's desire. Result, pregnancy, great agonizing on my part, decided on abortion (3rd party the father). I will never be over it. Talked to 3rd party a few months ago, he has AIDS. Please think about the possible outcomes, I wish we had stayed in our imaginations.

hanora, i don't want to beat this horse to death, but just once more let me say this.<BR>a fantasy is something one wants to do but may choose not to do it because of a number of reasons. for example, a couple may fantasize about a threesome but choose not to because they can't find a third person that can assure them them he has had a vasactomy or that he doesn't have aids. or, maybe the couple feels the rish of pregnacy or std(s) are too great for them. still, they may want to have a threesome.<BR>

frankie,<P>I don't want to beat this horse to death either, but I would insist that if Trusting wants to find out he should do it with his wife. He obviously does not have a relationship as open like yours and anyhow, each couple has his own reality. There's so much cheating out there in the "real world" that we need to have a realm where we can by 100% trusting and being trusted. For me, that is call "family", and yet, many times we choose to give our family the worst in us.<P>In my youth I experimented with drugs and also with homosexuality. Can't say didn't enjoy it but I learned that neither one was for me; it was easy for me anyway: I was single, had no commitment with anyone at the time I experimented and it was my choice. Should I had been dating somebody at those times would had been a total different story.<P>Whatever you decide, Trusting, don't cheat on your wife if you love her.<P>Alex<P>------------------<BR>Live and learn

Trusting,<BR>Without adding my personal religious opinion. Women think and feel differently about sex than men at least most women..<BR>We dont forget and to actually see the man you love in the act with another women is devastating. Knowing he has been with someone else is heartbreaking and very difficult to get over. <BR>If you want to spice up your sex life with your wife there or better ways. <BR>The thing I did was buy a book called 101 Nights of Grrrrrreat Sex by Laura Corn. I bought it for him for Valentines Day. We have had a lot of fun. But more it is a way of finding out more about eachother. It teaches you to fantasize and care about what your spouse would enjoy instead of other people.<BR>Try this and do your best to forget about the other fantasy ...I bet you and your wife will be much happier..<BR>If not well you always have time to change your mind, but if you go through with it there is no turning back.<P>------------------<BR>INLOVE.....<BR>LOVE HAPPY ENDINGS HOPING WE ALL HAVE ONE...<P>

Trusting--<P>Have you been reading our responses? What's been going on?<P>Let us hear from you.