I am 24 and have been married for 3 years. I was pregnant when we married. Our family made us marry. I knew then that I was not in love with him, but I felt that I had no choice in the matter. I have tried to make myself love him but I just do not. He is a really good person and an excellent father, but we have nothing; no friendship, communication skills, no love life, NOTHING!!! as far as our relationship is concerned. We do, however share a deep love for our wonderful two-year old son. We argue so much. I hate putting our child through this and I really believe that my husband and I would both be happier apart. He says he loves me and wants us to stay together, I just do not share his feelings. Please help me, I am so confused. I want to do the best thing for our son and for us.

Clair,<P>Arranged marriages have worked for generations. The real issue is that you were pushed to marry---but haven't learned the skills to build love. And you probably resent your parents for pushing this. However, there are solutions other than divorce (which will be hard for you and your son).<P>If you share a love for your child, that's a good start. You should probably get into marriage counseling very soon---I've used Steve Harley here at Marriagebuilders (phone counseling---888-639-1639). Steve will help you with the "Four Rules for Successful Marriages": the Rules of Protection (eliminate lovebusters), Care (meet emotional needs), Honesty, and Time. If you follow those rules in your marriage, you can build love. It's worked great in my case (my wife had an affair)---at least you don't have a major "negative" hurdle to get over.<P>You two can learn the behavioral skills that you're lacking, and by practicing these skill, you will grow in friendship and in love. Real romantic love. <P>Give Steve a call. If you can't afford it, then I'd suggest that you start off by ordering some of Harley's books: Give and Take and the workbook "5 steps to Romantic Love". Both are available through this website.

Claire,<BR>Although K offers some good advice, I'd like to explore the other side of the coin with you. Perhaps I'm going against the Marriage Builders grain here, but I beleive there are exceptions, so here goes: Please don't kick yourself for what you don't feel. In order to build true love, there needs to be SOME kind of spark initially. Romantic love is something mysterious and inexplicable, and it does not happen every day. That's why when it does, you'd better fight for it with all your might. But if you never felt romantic love for your husband to begin with, you probably never will. It's not a feeling you can force. You say you want what's best for you and your son. Well, I believe your gut has been telling you along what's best for you. As for your son, he'll be happy when he sees that you two are happy, and as long as you both continue to be his involved parents and love him with all your hearts, regardless of the outcome of your marriage. You deserve to experience true love, and so does your husband. Good luck in whatever path you choose.

Clair,<P>I have to agree whole heartedly with K and strongly disagree with spotlight. Even for those people that have that romantic "spark" to begin with most people live the majority of their married life without it. Our culture has sold us all a bill of goods that the "spark" is true love when in reality true love is a comitment to be loving to another person for a life time. The truth about the "spark" is that it is enfatuation at its best and lust at its worst. The "spark" will never last.<P>Another myth touted by our culture and appearantly embraced by spotlight is that divorce will have no impact on the kids as long as they see you happy. That is horse hockey. The greatest gift you can give youe child is to model for them the will to remain faithful to your commitments. <P>Please follow K's advice and equip yourself to be the loving and committed wife and mother that will not only be the best thing for your children but will also bring you the most long term joy. <P>

I know you all disagree with me -- but there is one thing nobody seems to see. Clair was FORCED to marry this man. She didn't make her choice, it was made for her. Sure, a "spark" sometimes dies over time and in the end true love means honoring a commitment -- but honoring a commitment you once CHOSE to make -- not one that was forced upon you. Why should one be forced to live in a loveless marriage for the sake of honoring a commitment that you never even wanted in the first place? I wholeheartedly support fighting hard for marriage -- and am against divorce in most cases. But I do not believe that people should be forced to stay together when they do not really love eachother. And children are smart--they can sense when there is no real love between parents. Isn't it better for a child to grow up with 2 role models who each love them and support them as opposed to ones who feel trapped together and are never affectionate with eachother and don't really love one another? Being together with my husband for 10 years, I'm well aware of the fact that love isn't always a "feeling", but it was my initial my faith in him and love for him that made me CHOOSE him as my life partner -- and it's that long history of love (although sometimes more water than wine)for eachother that sustains us through the dry spells and hard times. Without that, it's mighty hard to honor commitment when those bad times arrive. How many of you responding were forced to marry your spouses when you KNEW you did not love them? Try and look at it from that perspective instead. I feel for Clair, I really do.

spotlight:<P>Without knowing exactly how Clair feels, let's look at the facts:<P>1. She liked her husband enough to have sex with him<P>2. She was willing to "try" to make herself love him.<P>3. He's a really good person<P>4. He's an excellent father to their child.<P>5. They're young (I'm assuming H is of similar age).<P>(All the above are pros, con's are below)<P>5. There isn't friendship in the relationship<P>6. There's poor communication<P>7. Lack of romantic love<P>8. They argue.<P>9. They are young.<P><BR>Although most marriages start out with romantic love---not all do. As I said, arranged marriages in many cultures can be very successful; much moreso than our current "romantic love" marriages. Part of the reason for this is that the couple is trained in MARRIAGE SKILLS. And although they don't love each other at first, they possess the skills necessary to cultivate those romantic feelings.<P>Let's say that Clair gets a divorce. What's her outlook if she does?? She'll feel guilty about depriving her son of her father on a daily basis. Her husband will be upset and angry. With her current "lack" of marital training, she will likely fall "in romantic love" with someone, but within a 10 year period, she'll probably be looking at divorce once again. Because she's lacking those marital skills.<P>I think a much better solution to Clair's dilemma is to immediately start working on those marital skills. The's skills are embodied in the MarriageBuilder's philosophy: learning behavioral skills (easily learned by anyone---even me!) that support the Four Rules for Successful Marriages. It'd be great if her husband would enthusiastically participate, but she can do this even if he won't.<P>She should give it a year or so---time to learn the skills, and establish a consistant track record of practicing him. She's not in a horrible situation here---she has a husband who loves her and doesn't abuse her (the arguments sound like they're being participated in by both parties, and could easily be stopped). If she and her husband embarked on counseling with Steve Harley, I would bet (99%) that in a year she would be "madly" in love with her husband, and enjoying a great new marriage.<P>Let's say that doesn't happen---in a year, she still has no feelings for the guy. The time and effort she's put into the "skill building" hasn't been wasted. When she starts looking for a new relationship, she will find herself much better equipped to assess potential mates, and she will be a better partner. And her second marriage is much more likely to be successful, because she's been trained in HOW to make marriage's successful.<P>Great marriages don't happen (usually) because of dumb luck and a "one-in-a-million" love. They happen because each spouse has learned the skills necessary to keep that close relationship alive through the changes that accompany a 50+ year marriage. Those skills aren't particularly hard to learn, but they're not taught to any great degree in today's society (think---most of the focus is on "ME").<P>I agree that no one should be forced to live in a loveless marriage. But in this case (and most), I think that if Clair and her husband spent a little time and effort with the right marriage "coach", they'd be in a marriage that was full of love. And that's the best example that they could set for their son.<p>[This message has been edited by K (edited December 16, 1999).]

K,<BR>Points well taken. Good luck, Clair -- and be glad you found a place (this site) where there are people full of wisdom and encouragement.

clair, i agree with spotlight.. i suggest you start planning now to break out of that marriage. it isn't a good thing but it's the right thing to do.<BR>according the k and mudder, if you just decide to devote you life to someone that's love. what if you decide to love a dog. might as well marry it. you can love it if you decide to. you won't be very happy but it's still true love and that's what we're all looking for, right. well i'm not. i must have some romantic, sexual attraction and that certain inexplecible sense of belonging and acceptance by someone who's creditable. <BR>so of these people here would encourage you to save your marriage even if you learned you had inadvertanly married your brother.<BR>do you know why the grass looks greener on the otherside? because, while all the grass isn't greener, if it looks greener it's because it is.<BR>good luck clair.

Clair,<BR>I feel for you. It must be a difficult way to live. I think K has brought up some good points. you are young and have many years ahead of you. The only thing I would like to encourage you to do is, not be hasty. This is probably one of the biggest decisions you will have make in your life. It will have an effect on how you will live for ever. good luck, and if you beleive in God do some soul searching and praying. <P>------------------<BR>Infatuation is a "feeling"<BR>True Love is a "choice"<P>

I would first like to thank ALL of you from the bottom of my heart for taking the time to reply to my post. You have given me hope and a feeling that whatever we decide to do (in our marriage) it can work. I would however like to go into more detail on my current situation. <BR>My H and I were both in bad relationships before we got married. He was actually engaged and they broke it off. I was in a bad relationship for four years. One month later he and I started seeing one another. We were both heart broken and just needed someone to pass the time with. You could say we were both on the rebound. He was nice to me and I was nice to him and we were both lonely. I believe it was K that said I had to have loved him to have sex with him. K- Maybe now you can understand that No, I did not have to love him to have sex with him. We were both just going through the motions you could say. Six months after we started dating I was pregnant, one month later we were married. I knew I should not marry him but what could I do, It was made very clear to me what I would do (My parents making me marry him) and four days after the wedding I knew he was all wrong for me (four days <BR>before too for that matter). We started fighting instantly and I knew I did not love him and I questioned his love for me. When I was five months pregnant he quit having anything to do with me. He said I was just not attractive any more. He completely rejected me. I was very hurt. My son was four months old before he would even consider having sex with me, even then he said he was just not attracted to me anymore because of my weight. I lost 40 pounds and guess who what, he was attracted to me again. The things he did during that time left an emotional scar that I will never forget. I have been going to marriage counseling off and on for 2 1/2 years. I went alone for six months because he would not go. Just in the last two months he has agreed to go. The fact that we have never really had any good times to look back on and never got that foundation that a marriage needs make my situation so difficult. Though we have been married for 3 years, I feel like I am married to a stranger. As you can tell, I am very expressive, he on the other hand is not. I absolutely can not get him to open up to me, not even in counseling. We have been seeing our pastor and he has even said that we are going in circles. We never get anywhere because he want talk to me!! I do believe that love in a choice and I can not see myself choosing to love someone that is so very different from what I want in a Husband. It has gotten to the point that I have a hard time being in the same room with him. Once again, Your advice or imput would be greatly appreciated. Thank you and God Bless, Clair

I can't believe that not one posting states the fact that she does not, did not, and won't be able to EVER say to herself or him that they were in love when the married. A baby, doesn't form any basis for marriage. Yes it should but in this real world it doesn't. You can't make yourself "in Love with someone. Yes, you can make yourself love them, I love my ex after a $28,000 divorce bill. He is the father of my children, I lived with him 25 years, but did the rush of being in love ever appear when we married. NOPE. You can't make it happen, God knows I tried all of the prescribed Haley items. And in the end we could have manipulated our way thru another 25 but I still wouldn't have been able to say I was in love with him. We were married, raising children, in business together, friends, recreated, vacationed, pretty good sex, but did we ever "Make Love".<BR>You have to be in love to make love. Life Does go on after marriage, and folks, she is only 24. Would you counsel you child like this?

Although K did raise some really good points, I see that Creampuff and Frankie understand where I'm coming from (Creampuff - read my initial posts in response to Clair). I still really feel for you, Clair, and hope that with this combined insight, you can reach a decision that will ultimately make you all happy in the long run.<BR>-spotlight

Yes I would counsel my child or anyone else for that matter in the same way. It is value based counsel not feeling based counsel. <P>Clair,<P>You have been given advice here. <BR>As I see it you have a choice to make.<P>1. Get your H cooperation to work on your marriage and then throw yourself into the task of making it happen. K has offered great insight and guidance.<P>or<P>2. Split up.<P>If you choose #1 and you and your H succeed in making a happy home for your child you will have true joy in life. If for whatever reason staying together becomes intolerable or hopeless you at least know that you tried to do the best thing and you can move on with a clear conscience.<P>If you choose #2 what then? Fatherless home for your child. Single parenting. Being torn between looking for your own elusive happiness and meeting your son's emotional needs. Wondering if you could have made the marriage work. Looking for someone it will be easier to choose to love...<P>You can tell us more about what a bad match you and your H are but the advice and decision will remain the same. You said in your last post that you (thankfully) beleive that love is a choice. Please, choose to love your husband!<P><p>[This message has been edited by Mudder (edited December 17, 1999).]

About succeeding in making a happy home for your children,<BR> #1. When we told ours we were divorcing, all but the youngest voiced that they had known for years that dad and I weren't like "some" of their friends parents who loved each other. Kids do see things we adults don't.<P> #2. I regret that my children grew up with the thought that this was how loving and marriage should be. We didn't fight, we just didn't "Glow" when we were around each other.<P> #3. I'm blessed that my youngest girls<BR>12 & 17yrs. see just how special being "in love" can be. They both knew that he loved me long before I admitted it, you see, I was not looking for love, it found me. <P>PS> My 12 year old introduced the two of us. <BR> <BR>

creampuff, spotlight, thank you. i'm so happy to read some reality based suggestions.<BR>clair, take comfort in knowing reality hardly follows the ideal.<BR>do as you feel you must and move on. learn from what ever mistakes you've made and try to make better decisions, based on what you've learned. remembering of course, life does not present simple questions but rather those damn questions far which there are more than one good answer and lots of incorrect answers.<BR>good luck and stay focused on the greener grass.

Clair,<BR> You have two very different weiw points here. It seems there are two "sides" and you are in the middle. I hope you don't rush into any thing. decisions made in haste often leave a person wondering if they made the right choice. I want to urge you to take a length of time to think your options out. No matter what you chose, what matters is you are whole heartedly decided.<P>Frankie says to stay focused on the greener grass. In my oppinion, this is very bad advice. (Sorry Frankie) I have to say that; because; all through life people come up on difficult situations and hard decisions to make. The grass always looks greener on the other side. In *some* cases it is true but, by all means, not all. If the people in world all had the same attitude about difficultes and there being green grass else where, the world would be full of quitters. As soon as the goin' got tough they would GO. <P>Clair:<BR>I am not going to try to tell you what decision you should make. You have the options before you. It is between you and your husband to come to a plan. I do believe you should be open with him. Tell him what you have been thinking. Ask him what he thinks about it. Don't do it at a time when you are angry though. Wait until a time when you are both in good moods and ask him if he is open to a serious talk. If he is then continue. He'll probably be more open to the disgussion if he has agreed to it. If you "just bring it up" he may become defensive right away. <P>good luck, and if you believe in God prayer would help. <P>------------------<BR>Infatuation is a "feeling"<BR>True Love is a "choice"<P><p>[This message has been edited by prisoner of love (edited December 18, 1999).]