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What a lovely post Twyla, and I second it! I too have found snl to be polite no matter what was thrown at him, and I have thrown a lot. Huh, snl? [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] <p>thinker, I have to be honest in saying that I missed that part that Nina Too wrote about. I had to go back and read. Gosh darn, thinker, do we need to know that? Listen, my H had FIVE affairs, and I defy you to go find a post in my thousands where I wrote anything about his physical responses (delicately speaking, of course). Please, this is doing you NO GOOD to spill every bean...<p>I am deadly serious about the War of the Roses thing. You two worry me.
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I'm one of those reads-a-lot-but-rarely-posts kind of members but I just gotta chime in here, too. I've always found SNL to be polite and nonjudgemental. "Everyone is entitled to their opinion as I'm entitled to mine" seems to be a common theme. Yes, his posts can be long-winded and often I can't get through them all but I've picked up a lot of wisdom from them. I would be happy to count him as a friend.<p>[ January 26, 2002: Message edited by: Alizarin ]</p>
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What in the world is happening here??? Who the F**k cares if SNL has friends or not? Here is a BS woman who is at or near the breaking point. Asking for God to take her from this world. And all you people can say is 'thinker don't post such personal things about if his pecker is hard or whatever'.<p> I just lost some respect for some of you tonight.<p> Thinker, please seek out professional help to get through all the pain you have had to endure the last few weeks and months. <p> Bottom line. Even if SNL does post some thoughtful responses and is polite. This man ripped this womans world apart. Now he doesn't even have the balls to leave the home and help her heal. How obvious is it to everyone that this M is doomed? Do you think the two of them know it is doomed? Then why don't you grow a spine SNL and give your W what she asks? Leave if that is what she needs from you.<p> Thinker, lean on your children and God. Then start to heal. If SNL is too spineless to go then you take the kids and leave.<p> Since MEDIC didn't point it out to you good people I will. How polite is this statement???????<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>No problem medic, answer me this Have you stopped beating your mother yet? <p>Remember, yes or no are the only allowable responses...wanna play?<hr></blockquote><p> Perhaps he is not quite as friendly as you all seem to think. I didn't think medics post was bad. It followed the gist of the thread at that time. But snl chose to use a different tone, huh?<p> jd
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I admit that I have enjoyed many of SNL's posts and have even printed some because they were so helpful to me. That's all beside the point, though. SNL HAS been polite and nonjudgemental to everyone but his wife - the only person that it really all means anything to. I have cringed at some of the things he has openly posted about his wife & marriage, knowing that she also posts here - talk about kicking someone when they are down. I don't pretend to know the background to their story - none of us ever will. We get a one-sided view from the most vocal and least hurt member of the couple. <p>Thinker is obviously hurting, deservedly so. If her posts are "raw", than I guess I can understand why they are. SNL's ability to argue, debate, philosophize, or be polite to strangers has nothing to do with his ability to be a husband and a decent human being to the person he once vowed to be committed to for life. <p>No matter what you say SNL - it's just wrong to justify ending your marriage after many, many years of marriage because you just don't "fit". I'm sure Thinker would've appreciated this information 20 years ago. <p>I have to agree with jd. Am I missing something - why are we not supporting Thinker who is so obviously in pain? <p>I'm wishing you strength and clarity Thinker & SNL. You both need it, but for very different reasons. <p>AB
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Hey JD,<p>I didn't feel that a response was required from me because it seems that SNL should have actually pursued a field in law or accounting the way he is able to manipulate his verbage/answers regarding his present situation. [No offence to lawyers or accountants, but let's be real here] <p>JD writes "Since MEDIC didn't point it out to you good people I will. How polite is this statement???????"<p>quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No problem medic, answer me this Have you stopped beating your mother yet? Remember, yes or no are the only allowable responses...wanna play?<p>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<p>SNL, Sure, I'll play. This is the same kind of crap my kids used to use when they were maybe 6 or 7 and were caught in a lie or doing something wrong as according to established morals. See the connection, I do [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>And....<p>No, I haven't stopped beating my mother yet because I never started.<p>Wow, that was one sentence. HOLY POOP ON A STICK!!! Take the hint. Buy a vowel. Get out if you are so miserable. If you put half the effort into saving the M as you do preparing your responses you would be sitting pretty.<p>And, yes, JD, I believe that his BS has detracted from all of us, where we should be more concerned with Thinker's mental health.<p>OH, and SNL...<p>I'm rubber and you are glue, whatever you say about me bounces off and sticks to you!!<p>There, I think I have stooped low enough to have reached you. Waiting for a lenghty rebutal. <p>Take care now, bye bye then.
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(((Thinker)))<p>I am so sorry you are hurting so badly over all this. I know you counsel with the Harley's but I think it's time you find an individual counselor in your area that deals with sadness and depression on an individual basis. <p>It's time to take your own fate and happiness in your own hands.<p>You have children and family who love you, they need you, you can be happy, you need to file for the divorce for yourself and get pass this. You can be happy without him, we may not think so but you can.<p>Take care and take one day at a time. Don't give up on life now, you have a lot going for you, it may not seem like it now but someday you will know this.<p>ANNA<p>[ January 27, 2002: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]</p>
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almostbroken, you are misunderstanding something, I am here to help me find my way, just as many of you are....and likewise many of you would be in trouble if your spouse read your posts. I do not say many of the things I say here to thinker, or in the blunt way I do....I have asked her repeatedly not to read my posts, she does anyways (after agreeing not to early on), so any hurt she experiences is her choice. I have not said anything re thinker that was not true, as I see it, that is all anyone can do, even you...correct? <p>ab...No matter what you say SNL - it's just wrong to justify ending your marriage after many, many years of marriage because you just don't "fit". I'm sure Thinker would've appreciated this information 20 years ago. <p>snl...What does that mean ab...justify? I do not need, or seek approval for my marital choices, no one should, it is an intensely personal decision...all I can do is be honest, and if at the end of this process (when marriage is in crisis) and one has to say (radical honesty) they do not want to be married, what do you do with that? Lie? If either party in a marriage does not want to be there, it has to end, in fact it is already over, the legalities are just paperwork, a marriage ceases to exist when someone doesn't want to be there, end of story....now one can "make" themself cohabitate, and stay legally (if not emotionally) married, do you recommend that? Would you accept your H that way? It is like I am being penalized for being honest, I am a hero, a good guy if I say I want to be married, but I am dog food if I say I don't want to be...why?<p>btw, although thinker and I have had some heated arguments, and I have name-called and generally acted like a numbskull on occassion...for the most part I have treated her with kindness, courtesy, and compassion throughout our marriage.... and what makes everyone think I am some cold-hearted bastar* who isn't hurting too....but I would prefer you all support thinker if you feel it would help her, and if you think trashing her H is useful too, by all means, be my guest.<p>Jd....where did that come from? As for mercy, I am not tolerant of those who play word games, hence my reply which succinctly (for a change) made my point....I can play rough, if I see a need, but I am still fair and polite about it...btw jd, this isn't just thinkers life, it is mine too, I gave her 29 years of it, 28 a loyal, and faithful husband, a good provider, and a family man, I have nothing to be ashamed for in that regard....and whether you think so or not, thinker played a major role in the demise of this marriage too, I didn't do it all by myself.
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Like many other MB "veterans," I've followed these SNL-Thinker threads with great interest. <p>I've been through the whole marriage/infidelity/divorce process, so I think I can comment on this situation with some authority.<p>Thinker: Divorce SNL as soon as you possibly can. The sooner your dysfunctional marriage is over, the sooner you can begin to heal. I know it is hard to believe, but someday you will realize, as I did, that you are better off without your WS. Divorce is not the end of the world...it is a new beginning. I've read enough of SNL's posts to realize that he will never, ever do what it takes to save your marriage. He doesn't want to stay married, but he is too wishy-washy to end it on his own.<p> SNL: Divorce Thinker as soon as you possibly can. The course of action you have chosen is one without honor. When you married Thinker, you pledged to (among other things) honor her. This is one vow that you can actually keep by leaving her. The most caring, loving, and honorable thing that you could do at this point is to divorce as quickly and painlessly as possible. <p> Why haven't you filed?
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Dang-it SNL, I am no different than a lot of others here. I like and use some of the things you say. Like AB, I have printed off some things even. <p> None of this matters. What do you feel when you hear thinker saying she wants for God to take her from this world? If you never heard it before this thread, you have heard it now. How does that make you feel SNL?<p> It isn't everything you say that rubs us the wrong way, necessarily. It is the fact that you have said probably a hundred times or more that you do not want the marriage. Yet you stay. Why? <p> Is it because you fear for thinker if you were to leave? Meaning you fear she would loose all capacity to function? Go nuts? Snl, can't you see she is going nuts as things stand now?<p> Or do you fear the unknown in your own life, were you to leave the marriage?(I can understand this)<p> I just ask you snl, would you be able to live with yourself if something happened to thinker? Especially were it to happen by her hand? Due to you? <p> SNL it is not fair to thinker for you to keep her in limbo. For you to force the decision on her to end the marriage when she is the one who wants the marriage so darn bad. You don't want it man. Stand up and let her heal. <p> For the record. I do admire your honesty with us here. But! You say you had an agreement with thinker that she would not read your threads, right? Did that only cut one way? I have seen you post to thinkers threads numerous times. Take this one. Thinker posted the thread yet you have more posts here than she does. The thread has been hyjacked in a way.(I do not believe this was your intention, but it happened just the same)<p> Gosh I wish you two could come to some kind of understanding and then act on it.<p> jd
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I am very new here and I couldn't sleep tonight and decided to check out my post under another topic when I started just reading some threads and this thread just kinda hooked me so I read, and read and read some more....<p>WOW, what is going on here??? Does this happen all the time around here?? Do people air out their dirty laundry for all to see often on this BB?? Do any of you really know each other?? Have you ever met?? Man, thinker and SNL, do you even have any more rational conversations amongst yourselves that aren't posted for the world to see and opinionize over??? What ever happen to privacy and modesty and forgivness and love and hope and so on and so on?? And do all you other poster/responsers think any of this is really, really helping this couple???<p>I'll say it again....WOW...I am amazed...simply amazed.....<p>God truely bless all of you guys...you need it!!<p>still frstrtd
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Thinker, SNL, I am truly sad for you both. But I think I am going to refrain from replying anymore...I DO think this board is being used as a distraction from dealing directly with each other...and it seems to feed BOTH of your negative sides.<p>Besides. I think cjack summed it all up best, so I'll just quote:<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Like many other MB "veterans," I've followed these SNL-Thinker threads with great interest. I've been through the whole marriage/infidelity/divorce process, so I think I can comment on this situation with some authority.<p>Thinker: Divorce SNL as soon as you possibly can. The sooner your dysfunctional marriage is over, the sooner you can begin to heal. I know it is hard to believe, but someday you will realize, as I did, that you are better off without your WS. Divorce is not the end of the world...it is a new beginning. I've read enough of SNL's posts to realize that he will never, ever do what it takes to save your marriage. He doesn't want to stay married, but he is too wishy-washy to end it on his own.<p> SNL: Divorce Thinker as soon as you possibly can. The course of action you have chosen is one without honor. When you married Thinker, you pledged to (among other things) honor her. This is one vow that you can actually keep by leaving her. The most caring, loving, and honorable thing that you could do at this point is to divorce as quickly and painlessly as possible. <p> Why haven't you filed?<p><hr></blockquote><p>Kathi<p>[ January 27, 2002: Message edited by: kam6318 ]</p>
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jd..None of this matters. What do you feel when you hear thinker saying she wants for God to take her from this world? If you never heard it before this thread, you have heard it now. How does that make you feel SNL?<p>snl..I feel sad and some concern, I have everytime she has said such things for last 29 years, back to when we were dating....whenever she does not like what is going on in her life, she wishes she were dead. I don't know what I can do about it, what do you suggest?<p>I have looked into this some, and most folks who are authorities on these things say each of us is responsible for ourself, and cannot take even the slightest responsibility for another in this regard, nor should we make any decisions based on it. All we can do is be observant, suggest the loved one seek professional help, and call the authorities if a crisis seems to develop. I keep a close eye on her.<p>JD, if I may, your responses I suspect are more about you than helpful, by now you must realize there is a lot more to (thinker/snl) our circumstances and marriage you are not fully aware of. You seem really angry, it might be helpful (to you) if you reflect on that, and why.
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by jdmac1: <strong><p> None of this matters. What do you feel when you hear thinker saying she wants for God to take her from this world? If you never heard it before this thread, you have heard it now. How does that make you feel SNL? jd</strong><hr></blockquote><p> The only thing this statement should do is make him consider getting her professional help; either in-patient or out-patient. If he were to resolve to stay based on such a statement the marriage becomes no more than emotional hostage taking and that is not healthy. I know I did the same thing during the break-up of my marriage, in fact Thinker resonates a lot with me because I lost it during the divorce process and threw much of the same stuff around. It's only in hindsight, removed from the situation and having done a lot of introspection and talking that this did nothing but prolong the pain and drive a deep wedge between the ex and I which ensured we will never hear from each other again. I agree with those telling SnL to make the first move and file and don't put it on the shoulders of his W. But I also think no one here should be encouraging Thinker to further anger, hate and blaming; it's highly destructive and takes focus away from the real issues that need to be addressed.
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This is lose/lose for everyone isn't it. I have tried so hard to be fair to both thinker and snl.<p>Then respect is lost for me from a long-timer who I like (jd) because ... oh, forget it...<p>Nobody is winning here, and I'm beginning to think that none of us is helping anyone else either. Not snl, not thinker, not ANY OF US.<p>Yes, thinker is hurting like hell. Boy, do I understand the pain since MY first H cheated WITH AT LEAST FIVE WOMEN, for crying out loud. I UNDERSTAND PAIN, OKAY?<p>I'll go with cjack as well:<p>GET A DIVORCE AND STOP THE MADNESS, please.<p>I've said I'd back away, and I guess it's time. This is by FAR the saddest thing I've EVER read.<p>I do want to say this: Thinker, it doesn't do one bit of good to air the dirtiest of laundry here, esp. talking about snl's "organ"... I *was* offended by that.<p>jd, yes, I forgot what snl said to medic. But let me tell you, I've seen other old-timers backed into a corner and then biting back. It's never pretty.<p>I should have said, snl has been polite to ME. <p>What a pathetic mess when member/friends are turning against each other.<p> [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]
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SNL You have two friends.. I appreciate your honesty very much. I have learned a lot from you. You and I are in the same situation.. You help me understand myself better.. After reading so many sad ws stories, I have tried to give up my OM. Just because I keep hearing it is the right thing to do, but is that going to make everyone happy??? To give up the OM and pretend that I love my H? I don't think so.... Everyone (especially the BS) seem to think just because we made vows we should suffer and try to pretend to love each other. To me THAT IS FOG!!! If I gave him up is that going to make me happy? NO! Is he going to be happy? NO! Is that going to make both of us fall in love with our spouses? I don't think so!!! Anyway, everyone don't be so hard on SNL! He is only stating reality...<p> I wish very much you and Thinker could work things out.. You both seem like very nice people.<p> And Thinker, yes I have asked for a sign and received it.. I prayed for a sign and before I finished the prayer the sign was there. <p> I was very sorry to hear about you losing your father...
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Leave it to Sheryl the most level-headed person on the forum to do the right thing first. We all should probably leave this alone at this point.
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I do not want to drive this dysfunction further, but I had to add..<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I'm gonna get toasted for this one..but it's coming out anyway. Questions as to whether or not SNL has friends!!!! Good God, what is going on here! Assumptions, disrespectful judgements!!! Is this a LB party?<p>I consider this man my friend...and I am proud to say I have a friend that has always exchanged thoughts equally and respectfully. He has never treated any poster here with anything but respect and honesty. And he's taken a lot of knocks for his views. Never once have I seen him lash back in anger. Do I agree with everything he says? No, that has never been a condition for me to offer or accept friendship. But he deserves respect as much as anyone else here.<p>So yes, in answer to the question...SNL has a friend. T<hr></blockquote><p>This is where I am also. Please note this is not an attempt to "take sides"; just public acknowledgement of SNL's discouse w me on what I percieve as tough issues..<p>I do hope both of you find the peace, support and affection you're searching for..<p>Dan<p>[ January 27, 2002: Message edited by: Family Man ]</p>
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Hugs to both of you.<p>SnL, I hope you get what you need.<p>Thinker, I hope you get what you need.<p>Prayers,<p>Cali
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Ohhhhh geeez, maybe I shouldn't of asked the question about having close friends. When I asked I didn't mean it as something bad, SNL loves looking inside of him at who he is and analyzing. To me this is something I thought he may need to look at. I do know some of MBers consider SNL a friend, although he seems to argue with more than not. I just think people need to look at who they are. Just like a child who can't get a long with anyone, and the child can't understand why everyone is so against him. It concerns me that SNL even hangs up on Steve Harley, it seems disrespectful. The thing he said to Medic about beating up his mother just seemed cruel and is uncalled for. When he does say something mean to others then he really goes all out. It shows another side to SNL that we may not know.<p>SNL, you say you care that thinker is having suicidal thoughts. You ask about what you can do about this. Thinker is begging you to leave and do the honorable thing. She needs you to take this responsibility. Do the right thing SNL, also try to get her help. The things she is saying are warning signs, she is crying for help. She isn't asking you to stay anymore and saying she'll kill herself if you don't, she's asking you to take responsibility and leave. This is what you can do for her to help her right now.<p>One of my closest friends in highschool killed herself, the warning signs were there and no one, including me took her seriously, we all thought it was attention getting. Please take her seriously. You had an affair, you tell her you can never love her like you did OW, you tell her she doesn't fit what you want. It's like you are draining her emotionally so she will end it for you. She is begging you to to end it if you don't have the right feelings for her so go.<p>I remember once telling you that after my husband attacked me I think I starved him emotionally for affection because I knew if I left he'd stalk me, but he fell out of love with me and left, then I could have peace. You complimented me on the approach I took. Are you doing something similar? If you are it's not right for you to do this, the situation is NOT the same.<p>ANNA
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Spiro - what was your sign? Really need to know that someone had a sign, but you didn't say what it was.<p>Yes, SNL has friends here. Yes, I recognized that, but I gathered from what you wanted was friends that he could go to their house, invite to go eat somewhere, or to go play a game with, someone that was physically there for him. Yes, I agree all of you are his friends, he has stated that many times. But in reality, he has no friends that are physically here. He had one, but has gotten away from Mike, because he says his wife Nancy is too demanding.<p>Yes, I am at fault for this marriage too, but when your spouse doesn't treat you special, or do things that are special for you, you feel like a cow - produce the babies and move on.<p>Yes, it hurts to hear how SNL degrades me, says I am not marriage material, etc. etc. why repeat the sour words. I asked SNL to write on this post the negatives about the OW, just to help get her out of my system. We will see, he said no one here has asked him to say any negatives about her. Part of the problem is I have been harboring this sexual affair for 6 months now, and not able to say anything to my friends or family. SNL expressed to me today, to tell but he thinks it will only make things worse. His body language showed disgust with telling, and said he doesn't see where it will help me. <p>Yes, to those of you who asked, I am on an anti-depressant, through my gynecologist. She knows everything, would be a good counselor, but she deals with internal problems. When I saw her recently, She came out and said it was a sexual affair, and I said yes. She basically said, she could tell by the statements I have made. I denied it to her earlier, but she is such a kind woman, and said for me to tell her everything, please. We spent 1 hour together in the room, and she didn't during that time look at her watch, or make me feel like I was using her time. She is an angel from heaven.<p>Also, I feel he compared her to me. He has stated to me that the OW was etc. and you weren't. That hurts! SNL knows that he has compared her to me and I talked to my GYN about that, in more than one way! I feel and know I was compared. I know that she was sexually more active, than I. Just listening to tapes of her voice mails - are actually sickening to hear the sexual statements.<p>Once again, I have told SNL he can leave, I wish he would leave in a week or two. But again, today he says we have not worked at this long enough. I will see the lawyer in 2 weeks, appointment made. I would like an answer from SNL by that time, I think at that time I am going to file (is how I feel right now). As you all see by his writing, he does not want to be married to me, I am not a fit with him, I am psychologically inadequate with him, I distress him, I don't know who he is, I don't communicate the way he wants me to, I am not his personality (that is why OW and him fit so much, they are the same personality), he does not love me like a wife (just a friend), he still loves the OW (when I ask him if he loves the OW, he never says no, just says I don't know), I have asked him to tell me the negatives of her, and he still doesn't do it. Asked him to post it here to help me. Wish SNL also would say he committed adultery, he still says what they did was not adultery, they were searching each others body. And according to the bible they didn't commit adultery. Also, he won't say it was lust. But according to the bible, when one sees a naked body and gets aroused outside of marriage, that is lust. Maybe she is all positive. I can't see with her having 2 sexual affairs. He states that he didn't feel he was predatory. But with counseling, they stated she will do it again. Like many of you said here. I was a virgin with SNL, he wasn't. I was with one man my whole life, and obviously, SNL wasn't. <p>Another thing, the trust factor is not there at all. I still think SNL is having connections with her somehow. SNL has lied to me in the past and just 2 days ago. SNL can agree to that lie, cause we talked about it. He said he was not sure, and was protecting me with the question I asked. This is part of the problems. He is not honest with me.<p>Thanks to all of you for your help. I mess having a normal life. Yes, I am distraut, but I won't kill myself! But I wish that a truck would run me over, or I somehow get in the line of fire. God does not like suicide, but I sure would love to be dead. <p>I am going to go to counseling. Made the call, now have to make the appointment. Talked to SNL about this, said I may have to go 2 or 3 times a week, the first week or two. He was not agreeable to that. Said finances will not allow that to happen. Talked how he wasted our money on the two of them, and he sort of stated it a waste to go this many times. Part of the issues we have problems with. SNL doesn't look at me with love and concern. The first things out of his mouth was the finances. Would of been nice to hear, you might have to go that often, maybe we can make it work? But I got immediately negative response. This has been part of SNL's analytical problems. Where is the caring and loving?<p>No more to say now, want to walk with my dog, and go talk to dad at the cemetary. This man, my father, is the only one who has not been negative to me. He is the man who encouraged me that I was a good person, even when his wife and his son degraded me. Yes, SNL encouraged me, am very loving towards him for that! Yes, SNL dumped me and don't love him for that! <p>Temperature here in Michigan is beautiful, 50-55 degrees today, and sunny!!! Good day for a walk and talk. Thank you for all listening to me, we are all sinners in our own ways.<p>[ January 27, 2002: Message edited by: thinker ]</p>
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