<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Nduli2:
<strong><p>What a calm and casual way you talk about your wife hunting down and occasionally talking about killing another human being. Vent or not just the fact of what she has done already should scare the living hell out of you.<p>I'm sorry but this is completely sick, dysfunctional and off the rails. Both of you are damaged and both of you need help. <p>I have never in my life heard of anyone doing the things you two are doing.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Nduli2,<p>I know we read a lot of post and mistakes are made or wrong judgements made, but this accusation is very serious and should not have been made. I would suggest next time you give the posters courtesy enough to read thoroughly and understand thoroughly what is going on. This was serious, hurtful, untrue statements on your part.<p>ANNA<p>[ February 03, 2002: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]</p>

On second thought, forget it. Nothing said will change anything. Anna, reread SnL's post, what I said was not untrue, you just either skimmed over it or missed it.
Everyone else, good luck and God bless. I hope things will change for the better here. This as it stands is very worrying.<p>[ February 03, 2002: Message edited by: Nduli2 ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Nduli2:
<strong>On second thought, forget it. Nothing said will change anything. Anna, reread SnL's post, what I said was not untrue, you just either skimmed over it or missed it.
Everyone else, good luck and God bless. I hope things will change for the better here. This as it stands is very worrying.<p>[ February 03, 2002: Message edited by: Nduli2 ]</strong><hr></blockquote><p>
Nduli2,<p>I am sorry my comments made you so upset...<p>I reread his post, but I think here's the part you are misreading...
SNL's statement
However, her desire is not to seek out and do the ow in, but to locate them cause she wants to reveal stuff. She tried calling a while back and the phone was disconnected, that is what eventually prompted this. However, she has expressed on occassion an intent to do this in person,<p>Okay, let's break this down..."her desire is NOT to seek out and do the OW in....<p>Okay, "She has expressed on occassion an intent to do THIS in person..."<p>Meaning confront OW and OW H...not "Do other woman in"<p>Is this the area of confusion?<p>ANNA<p>[ February 03, 2002: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]</p>

No Anna, I can read perfectly well on my own and apparently you are reading this passage as you like it to be. Read it again, that however says a lot. I am not stupid and there is no reason for you to talk to me as if I'm a child, thank you very much. Do you honestly believe that if she sees the OW in person that it will just be a little talk? After expressing hating her so much? After spending time tracking her down? After obsessing over and over about the A and her past sexual history? Do you really think a face to face meeting will go smoothly and without violence? Not likely, could happen, but not likely. No one puts that much time and anger into just wanting to talk to someone.<p> Also she herself said she wants to do the OW in, sure SnL could take that to mean she just wants to tell but who knows? The woman is under severe emotional trauma. Her father(who is the only person she has ever seemed to care about and who she expresses this enormous attachment to has died), the OW is the percieved homwrecker taking away her only safe harbor....sounds like a reason to be concerned.<p> You've had your share of disrespectful judgements in this thread but since they are directed at the WS I guess that's okay.<p> I've moderated on a board before and we had a young girl once who talked a lot like Thinker does. The upshot of that was a frantic round of calls trying to track this girl down in her home state and finally finding her and calling the police. Thankfully, they found her time before she died from her o'd. I take people's statements in this anon. place seriously. They say things they wouldn't dare say in RL and usually mean them.<p> There is dysfunction here, I don't know how you read that whole thing and can sit back and say that's an untrue statement. But whatever, you seem to feel that this is your thread so have fun. You didn't upset me, I don't know you and so your opinions have no impact on my life, no reason to be upset.

I am scared for these two people though. Obsession usually just gets worse if untreated and Thinker and SnL need help. Not help here but a real live person that can be there. Thinker needs that especially. These boards at this point is nothing more than an enabler. A real person should be there.<p> I'm out of here, this whole thing is a giant car wreck with folks gawkng. It's doing nothing but depressing the hell out of me and making me wish I knew Thinker so I could take her by the hand and try and do something.<p> Whatever, the unfortunate reality of this place is that none of us can do anything and this whole thing is very saddening. These are people's lives no some bloody soap opera.

I have to get out of here, the fact that I can't help either of these people for real is depressing and I stand by my statement. Both need real help from a real person. Not tit for tat online. I hope you both seek it out and find it guys. You're both in a lot of pain and I'm sorry that this is being so hard. No one should be suffering like this and yes, for some of us it really hurts to just stand by and watch, make clever points on a UBB and then watch the damage.<p>[ February 03, 2002: Message edited by: Nduli2 ]<p>[ February 03, 2002: Message edited by: Nduli2 ]</p>

I have totally said the same things, Nduli, and have taken it a step further. This is not the first time we've seen severe emotional trauma/problems and/or threats to do harm to someone else or self. <p>I have written to Steve Harley and asked outright what it is we're suppose to do in situations like these. <p>I have also moderated on a BB, and have felt like my hands were tied by legal constraints in these types of situations. <p>I take ALL threats seriously. Remember, I have a child who tried to hang himself, and another who spoke of suicide -- both having been sexually abused by family friends. All it takes, my friends, is a severe trauma ... oh... like uh... INFIDELITY... to push someone over the edge. My son, at eight years old, tried to kill himself. I TAKE THIS VERY SERIOUSLY.<p>I am not some nutball who is trying to find a crisis - this IS A CRISIS.<p>If I hear anything back from Harley, I'll let you all know. It's been awhile since I've written (it was in regard to another poster who was threatening to kill herself)... haven't heard back yet... so, we'll see...<p>In the meantime, THERE'S NO LAWS AGAINST CARING, PRAYING AND REACHING OUT.

I know Sheryl and having spent time doing counseling with young people I find this habit people have of encouraging this behaviour disturbing. I know from experience that threats are to be taken seriously until ruled out and real life help is needed by the person making the threat.
Yes, many times those young people would say things they didn't mean but how to know?
As for the rest, sometimes it feels like people are getting vengance vicariously for their own situations through this all. This bothers me. This man and woman are real people who are hurting. If this is what's said in public what is said and done in private or not said at all? I am afraid for them and feel horrible that I cannot do anything at all but watch them fall apart.
Do post what Harely says Sheryl, I'm interested in his take on all this.
For Anna, I hope you're right and this means nothing as I do not ever want to hear that one of these suffering people did something they can't take back.<p>[ February 03, 2002: Message edited by: Nduli2 ]</p>

Dear SNL & Thinker,<p>I come here with great concern for the both of you. I don't post on this side too much but what I am reading doesn't look good. <p>This post is for SNL and I will do a separate one for Thinker. <p>SNL, you are the father and current H of your family. <p>1. Have you & are you willing to put that first in your life? <p> A. If yes, do you need help defining your role? Emotionally, physically, mentally? I am not being sarcastic just blunt.
1. If yes, then what help are you able to work with?
2. If no, then what are you going to go about it?<p> B. Back to Question 1, if no, then what are you going to do about it? <p>Simple questions requiring long thought but simple responses. SNL, you are a fairly good communicator here on this board. I know you are a good talker because we have had some doozey of a conversation!!! LOL! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Thinker has been involved with them. Yet there is a major communication problem between you and thinker. <p>My opinion as expressed to you and thinker before is that when it comes to family, some people are just major conflict avoiders. They treat their family members worse than anyone else. The family is the brunt of their anger and frustration. Happens more often that we are willing to admit. But it does happen. That is why when one leaves a family, goes and makes another, the same problems follow. Consider about that thought. <p>My H is a fairly good commincator with those he doesn't have to worry about. With his family he knows he needs to worry and this makes him nervous and to combat this he tends to go into the conflict avoider mode and make it worse. H is very dependent on my abilities but I can not do it all for him. He must shoulder his responsiblities in the area he is most afraid of.....himself. I see that in you. <p>Many like to talk to you. You don't have to worry about our individual outcome so offering opinions and suggestions is easier. The challenge is when the ball is in our court and we are responsible. Look in the mirror and if you are happy with what you are doing, then fine. Go do it because you are happy and will remain happy. How it affects others will be ok......<p>-if it is positive.
-if it is negative....then are you willing to accept the consquences? <p>I have written a lot. I will give you time to digest this and hopefully give a short response. <p>Please SNL, make sure you are treating your W & family with the dignity and respect they deserve. If you are trying, then it is up to them to work with you. If you are not, it is torturing them and look what it can push them to do? Are you responsible still? Yes and you know it. <p>Your response is appreciated but as always not required since I have no control over you and can't make you or anyone else do anything. This is just a board to write what is in our hearts and minds. Some of it can be pretty scary. <p>I am not saying you are a bad person. I am saying you need to choose and work with that decision. I pray it works out for the family. <p>I will respond to Thinker now. <p>I care for you both and feel a lot of frustration from this thread. That is ok for me to feel that but I just wanted to share my thoughts with you. <p>Take Care,
L.

Dear Thinker,<p>I hope you have read my response to SNL. I wanted to share a response to each of you individually. I have come to know both of you a bit since my coming to MB. You have both treated me well and it breaks my heart to see the continued pain between the 2 of you and in your family. <p>Thinker, as your MB friend I will say this. Hon, you must let go of the OW. She has moved for whatever reason and what you learned is 'a lot'. I know you post here because you need to share this info. Thinker, I understand. I did a lot of digging on the OW myself. My H is still wondering what 'all' I have learned. <p>Thinker as bad as it seems right now and as bad as you are feeling you need to put closure to this mess. Yes you want to clean it up until your marriage shines. I know that about you. SNL is not ready to make you marriage shine. Not yet. <p>Notice the 'not yet'? Ok. Remember that. My H is at that point also just in a different stage. <p>Is my situation better than yours? In some areas yes and in many others no. Same with the rest of the board. <p>I had to do some serious thinking this summer and when I came to the conclusion that what I really needed to heal was to put the OW out of my life, even if that meant losing my H to her, then so be it. Man,..... that H is still here!!!! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] Can't get rid of him....LOL!!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] (that was suppose to be a joke!) SMILE! (just kidding).<p>But when I did that, an amazing calm started to come over me. I felt better. Reaching that point helped me grow. <p>Then it crashed again. I began to have suicidal thoughts. Other things were happening in my life, H was not moving forward, I was beginning to lose steam and well the only way out that I was concentrating on was taking myself out. <p>I tell you this because I know you said you have been dealing with much. This A thing (which seems to haunt you day and night), daily family issues (which normally you could handle but sometimes blow up), your seeing your children's reactions to all this and you know you can't fix it for them, your dad's passing (another can't fix piece of your life), your MIL's situation (another can't completely fix item), your worries about your mom, the business, SNL's surgery/health, your surgery/health........hm.... no wonder you feel like you are a basket case. I would.<p>All that & more riding on your shoulders and others in your family is hard. Very hard. <p>Let's step back and see how much only Thinker can do vs everyone else. K?<p>Thinker Only: Your health.<p>SNL & family: All the rest. <p>Whew....... the balance of responsibilities have been the other way. Haven't they? Delegate. <p>Get your children to help out with the grandmas, the housework and business. <p>SNL (oops gotta go back to the SNL post...), you'd better decide if you are going to be a valuable contributing member because you need to contribute in the family way. Spend more time with the family and the grandmas. <p>Thinker, this is the ideal changes. Of course all the personalities involved and that fact of life that 'we can't control everyone's actions' is hard. But if you all met on this and each had their given roles doing it with a smile (as a requirement! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] ) Is this doable for you? Can you move forward and close that OW chapter of your life? <p>Ok, this is a lot again. So I will leave you to ponder and respond as much as you need. Remember it is not important that I or this board knows the answers but it is important that you, Snl and your family knows. <p>Another SNL point. Marriage is more than a piece of paper. An auto loan is more than a piece of paper. Life is more than a piece of paper. <p>Thinker, you must know when to separate the true stuff from the babble. The babble causes useless pain. Truth may hurt but it also helps. <p>Hugz to you both. Hope you 2 do the same. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>L.

hmmm...*big sigh* yes there is legitimate reason to be concerned (nduli), and if I was reading all this I would be concerned too...and I am. But also as anna thinks, the desire (thinkers) near as I can tell, is just to let ow know how she feels, vent, etc, and probably a little vindictiveness in re to exposing her to anyone she can....but as we all know, for most people there is a big leap between "talk" and action. She already had an opportunity to confront her (was in the same city for a weekend) and did not. I do not think it advisable to see the ow/owh (for all the reasons nduli stated), but I don't see it coming to that either, and will actively resist that happening.<p>I know this is depressing to watch, it reminds me of the movie with jim carey in it. And it is uncharted territory, in the past people kept their lives hush hush, and had little peer review, that does not seem to have worked well either. So this is experimental I suppose, and no real ground rules, but in the end I do think it is helpful....as long as folks keep their perspective and balance....you can't live our lives, we know that, I think most do. And there is always a balance of opinions/observations so is not like brainwashing, can be enabling...but ya know, if people want to be enabled, they will be, they will seek out friends and relatives who say what they want to hear...at least here you do see all the views (if you read them)...and I think it is pretty clear people do mean well, have been there themselves, and that helps, they have credibility, something also hard to find IRL on these issues.<p>I suppose a couple posting makes this all even more depressing (well conflictual couples anyways) than just one person, but of course no has to read or contribute...on the other hand, this is real, it is real life, for whatever good that does others in understanding their circumstances.<p>anyways, I do appreciate everyones contributions, I know some is displaced anger, and some is well meant (if off base) advice, cuase is hard to know the reality, some is support, and some is good advice...thinker and I are both adults, we will have to do with it as we will....as do you all.

SNL,<p>One thing that Nduli stated is that you had stated "On occasion she has expressed a desire to do the other woman in." <p>I did not get this from your post...<p>Is that true? Has thinker EVER said she wanted to "do the other woman in or kill her?" or has thinker ever indicated any intentions of physically harming the other woman?<p>ANNA<p>[ February 03, 2002: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]</p>

Thinker,<p>I've not been following this thread 'cause of the time caring for my mom has been taking. But felt I needed to say something to you.<p>Things are crossing a line here. I get the impression that you are self distructing right in front of our eyes. We do not want to see that and yet there is little we can do to help. Do you have any friends or family members you can talk to? You need that right away. <p>You also need to seek some individual counseling right away. Forget snl and ow, they are toxic in your life. If snl doed not have the good sense and love to take care of you and stop trying to push you over the edge then Plan B sounds like the only path you have to take.<p>If snl takes the business and you no longer have a job, then see an attorney for at the minimum of interim spousal support and child support.<p>You are in a very dangerous, obsesive place. Please take care of yourself and build a support system.<p>Just a quick aside here.. don't you keep the books, answer the phone, schedule, etc for that business? How is he going to do that now if he is out doing the work? Is that business going to fail now too? Seems he's shooting himself in the foot with this one.<p>SNL almost seems to be enjoying this sick little game, baiting you and then sitting back to watch you fall apart. Then comes around and says 'ain't it awful... see folks'.<p>This thread makes me want to advise you to just get away from him. Just make sure you seek the legal and financial support you need.

Okay my opinion...<p>Thinker just lost her dad, she's finally divorcing SNL, she has a huge regret...that she never confronted the OW and that she never told the OW's H about the affair. That she allow OW to control her...<p>She thinks that "she" protected OW and this is getting to her...<p>She is trying to fix this, and end this once and for all....<p>Not the way you guys are thinking, her ending it, is by finally having no more regrets, confronting the OW and telling her off, tell her husband and who ever that she had sex with her husband.<p>Then thinker will no longer feel that she helped protect this person she resents...There will be an end to the hate in Thinkers mind....This is why thinker put the woman's full name on her post...She doesn't want to protect other woman anymore...She deleted it but she did publish it for a moment.<p>Problem...This will not solve the problem...It'll just be more regrets...more feeling of pain....Thinker just can't see this yet. SNL is right when he says trying to convince Thinker not to do this is protecting Thinker not him protecting OW.<p>This is why it's time to let it go.<p>BTW, I don't believe for a second that SNL is getting joy out of seeing his wife falling apart...This is eating him up inside...<p>ANNA<p>[ February 03, 2002: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]</p>

Gosh, I am so sorry that you guys are irrate at me, each other. Please don't do this. I am a rational person, I will not do anything to anyone. Just like when my dad asked me to kill him with an injection. I told dad, that I would never to that to anyone, God will help and dad I love you. I do hate the OW, but she is the adulterer and she will have to live with what she has done the rest of her life. I am glad I don't have this on my conscious. I don't know how she can live with herself.<p>Yesterday was not a good day, I was reminded of my dads death. He died January 2, 02 and I was just a few inches from his face when he passed away, and I see the tears coming out of his left eye. It was like it happened yesterday. <p>What I do about the OW will pass. Just needing to talk to someone about it. SNL doesn't want me talking to my friends about it, so I give information but not all of it. I have to hide facts, and it has been difficult. Yes, I found a place to get counseling, this week is difficult, seding the lawyer, the gynecologist, so I will feel that I am helping myself in that respect. Our oldest daughter and I are going to Wisconsin for business Wednesday, driving their, spending the night and driving back. Will be nice to sit and listen to CD's and chill out for awhile. I am unable to read in a moving vehicle, get sick, but I can talk to God, and dad. <p>I am not going off the deep end, I am depressed, yes! Believe me I would not ever hurt anyone, phsycially or mentally. But I do feel the truth needs to come out to the OW - H. SNL does not want to be her dirty little secret. Yes, I had the opportunity to see the OW, and I was hoping to when my daughter and I were in her state. I could of just told my daughter I need to do something and will be back in 3 or 4 hours. But she planned a nice trip, and I went for her. This daughter needs special TLC. <p>Thanks for listening, this week will probably be a good week. Talking to the lawyer will help me know what rights I have, and what I can kind of expect. <p>Thankyou all, I will respond later! Thinker.

It's not anger at you Thinker, it's genuine concern. I'm empathetic with people to the point of it sometimes being unhealthy to myself. It's why I don't do counseling anymore, listening and advising kids after story after story of sexual, emotional and physical abuse left me worn out after a year. There were times when I couldn't sleep or eat if one of the kids was having a really rough time.
Watching this and knowing that neither of you are bad people and knowing the pain of infidelity and divorce makes it hard to not feel in some ways like that again. I felt like that last night after leaving here.
I know your anger, I've felt it too. But anger is poison to the spirit who carries it and those around them who care. Hate kills you. I lived with hate for a long time, hate for my dad who rejected me due to my being female, hate for the man who violated me as a very young child, hate for the kids who abused me at school. For a long time I didn't live I festered.
Your in danger of doing the same and you need to examine it with earnest and get rid of it.

PRAISE GOD,
Finally these LAST FEW posts on this thread have taken a turn for the better!!!! AMEN! <p>I knew that if we just kept at it, someone here would GET IT...please, lets not use these boards as a means to just vent and sit in our own do-do and waste away. We need to HUMBLE-ly ask for help, take what is good and right for us and then move on!!! We can all see soap operas on TV and enjoy them much more 'cause we know they're not real!!

Anna - you are right that I feel so bad that the OW controlled everything. She controlled SNL in having sex, using our money, etc. She controlled the last 3 conversations with me, no talking to SNL. She called me the first time, when the phones were very busy, and I told her I can't talk, but she insisted. We talked and of course the conversation was basically her, her, her. How she doesn't want us to tell her H, she will tell in her own time. She can't do it, cause it will hurt him. Threatened me with suicide if we told. Told her will think about it and to call the next week on Thursday, and she decided to call on Monday instead. Told her why didn't you call Thursday, she said she couldn't wait. Then the last time I said I will call you, and she called me about 5 days later, before I actually thought about calling her. This was control, husband listened to the last 2 conversations and I barely got any words in. I am hurting that she used my H, used my H for sex, used my H to get money to pay bills, used SNL for time, used me to threaten me with suicide. It is like a game she played. She got the last word in, the last threat, the last woe is me, the last tears, and not once did she say she was an adulterer, or sinful, or remorse or guilty. That is why I feel the way I feel. I was used, and used by an expert adulterer.<p>Where is the end to this? To where I don't feel like a doormat? She used me as a doormat, and now she is free to live her life. I suspect, that she knew when she called the last time, that she was going to get the house for sale and move. Cause she told me that her and her H were looking at trailers. And things were going very good. Her H was loving her, they were doing things together, and having a good time. That she loved her H, and they were going to enjoy their years together, and love each other. That is why I suspect she didn't tell, and wanted to move and try to start a new life over somewhere else, where we can't find them. Maybe it is control on my part, but I would like to have SNL and I send the information about her affair to her H, and then let them deal with the situation. There is something deep inside of me that says this needs to be done. I would suspect that she didn't say anything physical happened. That they were best friends, and the conversations ended. She probably said, that they just talked on the phone and that was all. When she talked to me I asked if she had any sex with my H and she flat out lied. She said no, I haven't even seen SNL. I told her I knew about her other sexual affair, and the 3 bankruptcies that my investigator found, and she was surprised that I hired one. My investigator said he was pretty sure they were with each other. SNL told me they just went to the mall. Which he lied big time, they met at the mall, and drove the car we rented to all the places that they had sex.<p>Anyways, yes, there is a lot going on in my head. I don't feel loved here by SNL, I do feel like a doormat again (OW treated me like a doormat), I don't feel very connected with SNL, I don't feel sexual with him, I don't feel hate towards him, I am just actually neutro in feelings. He is a good man, works hard when he wants to, and I just feel alone. I feel sad, alone, hurt, lost, neglected, betrayed, ugly, and losing ambition to do things with him. He sits on the computer too much, which he says he needs. Says that is him. Let him do it, I will do my own things, and we will get further apart. That is what he wants, so that is what he will have. SNL is more than ever displaying the dislike of being here, all I can do for him now is get things organized and then maybe he will see the chance and get the nerve to tell me he is ready to leave. If that is what it takes, he will get what he wants. I will get the book tomorrow after physical therapy on disengaging myself from this paper marriage. <p>Thanks for your help and advice. I need the advice, and I do look at what you all say. Sometimes I think about it, and today I thought a lot about it, and realize that I have to do one thing to put a closure on this adulterer OW, I will have her H notified. Probably spend the money on the investigator I found in Arizona. Let him send the info. to where H works and then I will know that that has been done. Then she and her H can do whatever they want. That is what it is going to take to make me feel there is a resolution. SNL doesn't show me any resolutions, so I am looking out for myself. But really, I do thank all of you. I will keep in touch, I don't look at the posts here much, am too deep in thought and depression right now. I would probably make one feel more dejected than they already are. Thanks, bye for today.

Dear thinker & s_n_l,
Hi, I'm back and (pause), it's interesting how your posts still look pretty much the same after all the input and suggestions and questions and advice and everything. thinker keeps saying the same things and s_n_l maintains his position. Nobody is giving in an inch. Nobody is willing to change. And, yet nobody wants to give up.<p>And nothing changes in your mindsets. I don't think we can change anything either. I don't think that we can take your recovery more seriously than you do. I think that is where the frustration comes from. Maybe WE need to detach a little bit... (?)<p>Nobody can move forward in their life looking through the rear-view mirror.<p>Letting go of the OW and her life means NO CONTACT for either of you, thinker. Let OW go on with her life and let her be accountable to God for her actions, past, present & future. Hating her is equal to murder in God's eyes. Which is worse? Adultery or murder? Both are the same awful - both are a sin. Right? I'm not judging you, just reading your thoughts which you have repeated over and over and over... I understand your venting, and this is the place it's just not seeming to expand your thinking, thinker! You keep thinking the same thoughts and nothing will change until you change your thoughts.<p>Are you guys really just trying to keep your business alive? Is that what is keeping you together? I asked this before and I believe this is a key question as to why you both continue to hang in there.<p>Neither one of you can move forward in life EVER when you choose to stay stuck and focused on the past. Both of you are way too focused on the past, past hurts and mistakes and disagreements and unwilling to let go of past hurts. We are reading about grudges from YEARS ago! And all the past resentment gets folded into the affair making it even harder to forgive.<p>Sometimes you just have to be willing to wipe the slate clean and start over, sort of like s_n_l's renewed marriage idea. Just erase and start over, if you are both willing.<p>OW is out of your life AND marriage forever, but thinker, you keep dragging her back into the middle of it with your thoughts and speculation!<p>It's like Harley said in his article on overcoming resentment:
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>On the one hand, resentment is a normal reaction to someone who has caused you to go through unbearable pain. It is your emotion's way of warning you to avoid people who have hurt you in the past -- they may hurt you again in the future! But, on the other hand, resentment can also be an irrational reaction to something that is no longer a real threat. In fact, resentment itself may become a greater threat to your happiness than what it is you fear.
<hr></blockquote><p>Don't nurse it and rehearse it, disburse it, and let God reverse it!<p>[ February 05, 2002: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</p>

Thinker,<p>At first, my thoughts when I read your post about having the Private Investigator send this, were that perhaps you could do this, not know the address, not confront them personally, and afterwards move on.<p>However, seconds thoughts were playing another scenario, which may sound extreme, but it has happened before and it could happen considering the mental stability of this OW....<p>Let's say you did this, and you felt a closure. Let's say, OW H's broke it off with his wife, and a whole family was torn apart by this. I know this was not your doing, she made her bed, however, let's say the OW, which you know has mental problems, falls apart and blames you instead of herself for the distruction of her marriage and her family hating her. Then all of a sudden, she wants revenge with you, she needs closure... Let's say she becomes mental enough to stalk you and your family and want to hurt you all in a physical way. She could end up hurting you physically or your children physically...<p>Where does this all end Thinker?<p>All this because you took the control out of God's hands and put it in your own hands as to her fate....<p>Do you want to take this chance Thinker?<p>ANNA

thnker,<p>you need to read this page to understand what we are saying. . . .<p> WORK ON YOURSELF! which means<p>1) discover your weaknesses
2) work on your weaknesses
3) live your life the way you want to, if you need to talk to someone, talk to them. . .
4) get counseling, and do not listen to anyone who says otherwise. . . counseling is the life blood of understanding and healing life's wounds, as well as understanding where your interpretation of your life events may be detrimental to your healing. . .
5) forget OW, OM, focus on thinker, and thinker's future. . . on thinker's life. . .
6) you are not a emotionally healed person, you have wounds, and they have not been properly cleansed and bandaged for healing. . . so you had better get going in take care of thinker. . .
7) you decide for thinker that if you can't say anything nice about someone, you learn to focus in on thinker and what she needs to do to become productive and happy. . .<p>your focus is so out of whack, partially from your history, you need help in understanding it and discarding what is causing you to not be so focused on blame and anger, on revenge. . . .<p> THINKER, YOU NEED PERSONAL COUNSELING. . . NOW GO AND GET HELP! <p>wiftty

Yes, I have to learn to work on myself. Went to see my GYN today, and we had a good talk, lot of problem solving, lot of tears on both our parts, and future of talking to a group session. She asked how we are doing (SNL and thinker), I told her basically, not good. Told her, SNL is sitting on the fence. Talked about counselor wanted him out of house, SNL said he will stay, even while he was talking to the other woman. Told GYN about the physical acts SNL did, threw things at me, called me names, and was so disrespective to the kids. This disturbs me too, SNL tells others, that while the WS is having communications with the OP and are still in the house, by all means do plan B. Get the WS out of the house. But SNL wouldn't leave, the 2 or 3 times he was asked to leave. Why does he give the advice, and he himself didn't do the advice that he is giving? Even to this day, I asked him to leave a couple of weeks ago, and he says he will not leave. Why? This upsets me sooo much! Also, the Dr. and I talked about seeing a lawyer, I told her had an appt. for Thursday, but had to cancel it today, cause daughter and I are leaving for out of town Wednesday afternoon and won't be back until late Thursday or very early Friday morning. Dr. said that was a good idea to talk to the lawyer, and to find the counseling she suggested. Also, to see another Dr. for evaluation on subject we talked about. <p>You know, something else came up in my head. SNL has said various times, that there is only one affair to a marriage. Just for stating this again, why can he have fun and the spouse has to sit and watch him have fun while you sit in pain? Another thing he has said, he has stated quite a few times, that he doesn't feel he would forgive his spouse if she was the WS, and the marriage would have to end. So is he stating that if I was the WS, he would never forgive me? Well, SNL would you answer the question? But the OP has been a WS for definite 2 times, and possibly 3 and he choose her, to be his wife, asked her to marry him, had sex with her many times, and I guess he forgave her? Why did he forgive her? Why did he knowing that she already had one sexual affair, still want her and didn't have any problem forgiving her? And after his sexual affair with her, still thinks she is a wonderful person, with no problems? This is part of the problems I have with SNL. He states things here, that make no sense, and make me feel like horse poop. He doesn't fogive me, or let the past go. But with the OP, he lets her past go, and didn't have any problems asking her to marry him, didn't have problems having sex with her. Even when she said from the very beginning of their relationship, that she would never leave her husband. What is wrong with SNL, what is wrong with his bright mind? You guys, this is why SNL is killing me emotionally. To this day, there is nothing wrong with the OW, but as you have seen written, thinker his (paper wife) is the wicked witch of the west. He does not want this marriage, does not want thinker, but wants to find his new in-love, soulmate, oneflesh. SNL does not make sense to me.<p>Also, today SNL literally called me some really trashy names, cause of a service call I took and didn't get I guess an exact statement from the customer. Told me it wouldn't stand up in court. I did the best I could, and SNL degraded me verbally, when I tried to defend myself, he told me to shut-up, so I did and told him I didn't have to listen to this. He said, get your FU**ING lawyer and get out! This is what I say when he still gets out-of-control. I eventually hung up because I don't have to take this angry outburst from him or anyone. I have had so much angry outburst from him, and physically he is 100# or more greater than I. <p>When he came home briefly, I was calm, nice enough, showed him some of the filing I rearranged. Asked him to look at a file that I did, and he said why? I said so that you know where things are, and said is this okay? He said it was fine. I will continue to get organized, been ditching a lot of stuff out of the files, rearranging the files, and that will hopefully help SNL to feel OK to leave. Knowing that his files will be in pretty good shape, to find someone else to take over. <p>We are not recovering, just waiting while SNL sits on the fence. He is sitting, but SNL does not believe he is sitting. There is no committment to this marriage, both Jennifer and Steve asked for a committment and SNL wasn't able to give one. My time has been here, but my patience has dwindled to a very low number. The Harleys said that will happen, when one partner does not make committments. Wish this marriage would of survived, but SNL does not want it, never wanted it, still to this day does not want it. His anger is not acceptable. <p>Would someone please answer some of my questions. I am working on myself, and have to make another appt. with the lawyer. This is the only way I will survive. Thanks for listening, and I am thinking about what all of you said. The OW is an unstable person, even if SNL doesn't believe it, and I hope she finds herself one day. I do hope her H finds out, and maybe SNL will one day find himself. I am listening to all you are saying. Took a lot of rereading and rereading what you all wrote. Things are starting to sink in. THANKS AGAIN!