Hello, <p>Recently found this site and it is wonderful. I found while trying to figure out what I should do about a recent development with my ex wife. <p>First a bit of history &#8211; I have been divorced for 3+ years. While married my ex had two affairs over a 6-year period, the second forced the divorce issue to happen. Over the 3 years it became obvious to me that the infidelity was a symptom and not a cause. I also did not meet her emotional needs for affection at all etc&#8230; and she certainly did some damage by having the affairs &#8211; trust etc... We did not go to counseling just straight to divorce court and seem to both have always wondered even to each other if we &#8220;did the right thing&#8221;.<p>That said we have both grown over the past 3 years. We met at a young age, 17/16 and married at 22/23. Never really know how to &#8220;have a relationship&#8221; so I think and have been told. <p>We have both had a few long relationships over the time we have been divorced and she recently, 2+ months ago got out of one and has asked we try and work it out now. I am involved with a girl but have doubts and believe it is due to unresolved issues and questions from the ex. There are two children involved ages 6/8 both girls and I imagine is the reason we still give reconciliation a thought?<p>I do care for her and we have always had a friendly relationship. I would love to get some opinions on just what to do? Am I in fantasy world with this or can two people divorce after infidelity / lack of affection, be involved with some people then realize that what we had was worth fixing after all? Can it be fixed, trust issues etc&#8230;?<p>she, has said she is out of teh relationship becuase she still loves me and would like to "go to counseling" to fix us or put it behind us.<p>Thanks for any input as I am really struggling with what to do. -

HI, I am very impressed by your willingness to try and to come here and ask for help- I am no expert.. but in the midst of attempting to apply MB COncepts to my marriage.<p>I suggest you go to the counseling section on this site and either go forward in counseling with the harleys or go ahead and find a MB concepts therapist in your area.... do call MB offices, and ask for a referral to someone in your area, who uses this techniques... <p>Print out the questionnaires and work these through for you and your w. I would consider her still your w. YOu have 2 d's. I would commit to restoration of the M.... just my advice, I think you should restore and work out the marriage for each other and for your girls... I do not know if you are a christian, but there are quite a few christian concepts and biblical exerts that tell us, God hates divorce, and tells us to reconcile when there has been a seperation- I believe this. I would also search for restore ministries, on the internet and ck out their biblical concepts that you can put to work to restore your M. With commitment it can be done... I am sure your family can be reunited, it takes the decision to do so... first, the commitment to work through it, and the commitment to build a good marriage- that is all it take folks, and 2 willing people...looks like both of you are close to that. <p>Stay here and send your wife here to post and read. I am overjoyed for you that you have the opportunity to restore your marriage and family.<p>Hugs, HONEY

Thanks for the positive reply. <p>My ex is on the site but not sure if she reads these or not. I do believe if we both tried we could work it out as I said we have been very good to each other after the divorce. She has been unhappy in her two attempts at a relationship and I have been unhappy in my efforts too. <p>The difficult part for me right now is ending the current relationship I am in as the girl has done nothing to deserve rejection. So I am working through that.<p>Thanks again.

Hi there-<p>First of all, yes I do think it is possible for you to reconcile after divorce. All of the Harleys' stuff supports this. It is obvious that you both have unresolved feelings for eachother. Furthermore, you have children and it would be wonderful if you and your ex could work through all of this and provide them with a loving family with both parents in the home. <p>All I can say is read all of the Harleys' stuff here, do the questionares, and get into counseling. Your marriage is worth it.<p>As for the other woman. You say there are problems anyway. Most likely they are from unresolved feelings for your X. Although this person has done nothing wrong that doesn't necessarily make her right for you. She deserves your honesty and her own chance to find the right person.<p>Good luck and God bless!<p>K

Hi,<p>This makes me so happy to hear. I know a 6 and 8 year old who would be very happy. It's worth it to find out.<p>God bless.

I have to admit that when I ask friends or even a therapist a while back I do not get this type of response. It is more in the line of &#8220;she cheated on you&#8221; &#8220;she can&#8217;t change&#8221; etc&#8230; <p>I do believe that I want to give it arty if for anything to set it to rest in both our minds should it not work or we find it just isn&#8217;t right. <p>The kids break my hart. The oldest one always asks me to stay longer and she even said tonight &#8220;Dad can&#8217;t you stay over&#8221;. However again &#8211; the responses I usually hear are &#8220;you can not make decisions based on your kids&#8221; <p>If my relationship with the ex was adversarial I think I would not have such a difficult time, then there would be little doubt that I should simply move on.<p>Argggggggggg. <p>Thanks again.

pwit-30,
Don't listen to those who preach what is essentially "unforgiveness". Unless they are walking in your shoes, they just don't know WHAT they'd do. I say read all the principles for a GREAT marriage here on this website. Get His Need/Her Needs. It will help you both to figure out if you can be compatible and "in love" again. God believes in MARRIAGE. I don't know if you have a faith, but maybe the fact that you both feel you didn't do all you could to restore your marriage is a message from God for you! My prayer is that you will follow your heart on this. Do it not only for your children, but for yourself and your XW and the wonderful marriage that the two of you may have in the future!!<p>Best wishes,<p>MOM

Don't look at it as rejecting the woman your dating..because your not rejecting her..because it isn't personal..it's based on how you feel about your ex-w..and she deserves to have you be open and honest with her about that..just as I would think you'd expect her to be with you...<p>And w/ your ex-w, start going out on casual dates together..get to know each other and talk about things you've been reading here on the site..and do the questionaires w/ each other..and take time to really listen to each other..talk about what went wrong..and maybe by doing the emotional needs
questionaire you can figure those things out..so that you can reunite and have a stronger marriage..and if it doesn't work..at least you'll
know that you both tried..

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by pwit-30:
The kids break my hart.... the responses I usually hear are "you can not make decisions based on your kids"
<hr></blockquote><p>How sad it makes me, that in about a generation, we've gone from "stay together for the kids' sake" to "get divorced, it will be better for the kids" or even worse, what you've been told, "don't think about the kids, just about you."<p>What utter stinkin' B.S.!<p>I prefer what Michelle Weiner-Davis writes in "Divorce Busting:" People stay married for a variety of reasons, a combination of reasons, and the well-being of their children is part of the equation. Don't stay in an unhealthy marriage for the kids' sake, but try your best to make the marriage healthy instead.<p>And your experience- you're three years divorced, and your kids are asking if you can stay over? - shows again that kids want their parents together. <p>Don't walk, run to a counselor, and see if you and your ex can make it work. If you really have grown and learned in the three years you've been apart, I'll bet you can.

I can't get over the positive responses to my post. Honestly I did not expect it due to the past years of "advice" I have had. <p>Several times when the ex and I were single over the 3.5 years we have been apart I have spoken to friends and counselors about "maybe I should try and get back", the overwhelming response is I was doing an injustice to myself due to her 2 affairs. "She wont change" etc... <p>Speaking to her now I feel she has. I feel I have too as I take responsibility for my half of the failures too. <p>Last night my oldest was asking me over and over to "Please sleep over tonight dad".... very difficult to say "I can't" but in the back of my head I want to say "I think Mom and Dad can work it out and we will be here soon ................. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Anyway, I am preparing to have a discussion with my current GF. Here is the tough part - we live together and have for a year. So the reluctance is not totally based on disappointing her but instead it is based on the complexity of telling someone you don't want to be in this and oh by the way I am going to try with the ex and then all that while living together for a while longer till she moves - I own the house..... <p>Any advice on this other than "just do it"?<p>thanks!

WOW!
I too am knew and the ex and I have been talking, emailing and dating for the last 2 weeks. This after 2 yrs of being at each other throats, a pretty awful divorce.<p>Now I can see what we did wrong and I think we both have learned so much during this time about ourselves and each other. Wierd that after 17 yrs of marriage we learned more about this stuff after it was over.<p>My question is, how did those who did this successfully deal with family and friends who don't support this or don't understand this? I don't need them to tell me what to do but I don't know how to approach the subject either.<p>What has your experience been?
Thanks
OG

pwit-30:<p>"Anyway, I am preparing to have a discussion with my current GF. Here is the tough part - we live together and have for a year. So the reluctance is not totally based on disappointing her but instead it is based on the complexity of telling someone you don't want to be in this and oh by the way I am going to try with the ex and then all that while living together for a while longer till she moves - I own the house..... "<p>
welcome! How I envy you the chance to reconcile with your ex wife. And "just do it" is the only advice that makes sense. All you'll get if you stay on the fence is splinters in your butt.<p>Look 12 years into the future, and imagine your 8 year old D telling you "I'm moving in with my lover, he's divorced with 2 kids, and no we're not getting married at this time." What do you tell your little girl?<p>Do you say "Don't move in with a man without a wedding ring, it's wrong and immoral and stupid. No man who loves and respects you would ask you to do that."? Now imagine her reminding you "Well Dad, your girlfriend lived with you and you weren't married. It's perfectly normal. We're trying to see if we can get along before we get married."<p>That's the first thing.<p>The second thing is that you owe the woman living with you a lot. You owe her an apology and truth, honesty and kindness. But you don't owe her a continuing relationship or marriage.<p>She has to go before you can think about reconciling with your wife. It may even be necessary for you to cough up some money to help her move into her own apartment. <p>You're broke? Get a loan. Take out a mortgage on your house. get a cheaper car. This is your kids' lives and future we're talking about here.<p>Can your ex wife change? Has she really learned that fidelity is essential to keep your marriage together? Right now it doesn't matter. If there's a ghost of a chance to put your family back together, <p>1. break up with your live in girlfriend. Pay whatever price you have to (financial, emotional, self-esteem, it doesn't matter)<p>2. get into couple's counseling with your ex<p>3. don't maintain contact with girlfriend. Allow no distractions from dating and counseling with your ex wife<p>4. Don't give the children false hopes. This means, stay in the place you're living, don't move back in with their mother until you're ready to marry her again.<p>How I wish I were in your shoes.

I like the 4 steps to the plan.<p>I am not broke at all and already have determined I would pay for movers to mover her stuff and also give her a first/last payment for the "new place".<p>I also am dealing with the "family/friends" perception and lack of support on this. However am convincing myself that they are not my main concern. <p>I have ran my thought past friends and family a few times and they all go down the path of "2 affairs, and your with someone that cares for you that treats you better" etc... that has always swayed me into not trying the reconciliation path, to this point. <p>However - that said there are no doubt unresolved issues/feelingsbetween me and the ex and my thought is now it would forever be in both our heads "what if" as my girls grow up!<p>thanks again - I am getting stronger and stronger with your help!

pwit,<p>Let's not get the cart before the horse here. You don't need to explain nor do you need to expect that you friends and family will approve of your relationship with exW. You really haven't gotten one yet.<p>As for your current GF, this will hurt her, but if you are thinking of your exW, you are not thinking about GF and you cannot commit with this baggage. IT MUST BE DEALT WITH FIRST. So deal with it.<p>Now, I would like to point out a few things as I seem them.<p>1. Don't get your expectations up. Just start with counseling, hopefully reading here, read the book suggested His Needs Her Needs, and definitely Surviving An Affair by Harley.<p>2. Give this plenty of time, you have wounds that have scabbed over, but probably not healed with regard to your W's affairs. Address those with her and see if new perspectives come about.<p>3. Realize that you both have aged a bit. You are still very young in my book [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] . But, I suspect maturity is coming for both of you. That is a very good thing for the future of your relationship.<p>4. Make sure that both of you practice "radical honesty". That is a concept of this site and it is very powerful when healing a relationship. Honesty often hurts (as does a shot), but like a shot it can heal you.<p>5. I doubt that most of your friends and family realize that you still have love in your heart for your exW. Is it enough?? Who knows. What may surprise them is that your exW thinks well of you. <p>6. No matter how this turns out, it is the best thing you can do. You may restore your family. You may find that you do have the love of your life. But, at the very worst, you will clear up the baggage that has and will hender any future relationships.<p>pwit, you cannot lose on this. Frankly, your exW cannot lose, but interestingly your current GF cannot lose. Why the last statement, you were never ever really going to get as close as you should with the baggage of your exW around. So she is either freed from a relationship where you could not give her what she should have, OR sometime in the future you two may have the relationship the way it should be. <p>The status quo was going to hurt your GF very much in the long run. So while she will be very hurt by this turn of events and will have a hard time believing you, know that you are helping her.<p>Those are my thoughts. Clear it up or rebuild it; either way everyone wins.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

JL, thanks for the "level set" on expectations. I am finding it is more difficult than originally thought to step up and have the conversation with current GF. Perhaps I am torn a bit? I do agree with previous posts that I can not have a relationship with someone, one were I fully commit, until I deal with the ex - good bad or otherwise. Part of me is thinking that this process, what ever decision is made is helping me deal. I do believe if I want the exW would reconcile. This is based on comments from her - "When we get remarried" "We should have more kids" etc... I get the feeling she has made up her mind that we will work it out if we chose to. I am thinking this over and not sure if I am having "stubborn thoughts or thinking out of spite". Part of me wants to deal with this and work it out no matter the price (partly or mostly because of my kids). Part of me wants to say - "I am in a relationship and I can't change based on your schedule". We had been close to attempting reconciliation in the past but exW was unwilling or unable (emotionally) to get away from BF to end the relationship, which was my criteria for any attempts. Fairly enough it is now her criteria and should be now. There is some past that goes with these thoughts. When we were dating a few times we had broken up, when she would get wind o me seeing someone or dating another girl it triggered her to contact me and we would eventually wind up back together. Part of me is thinking that this is the "adult version" of this situation. Am I thinking got much? I really do not want to fix things only to get hurt again or find it was/is an issue she has with regard to letting me go. Yes, regardless she still has hooks into me and I guess that is the bottom line?<p>thanks-

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by pwit-30:
<strong>"When we get remarried" "We should have more kids" etc...
thanks-</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Huh? [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Why does she want to have more kids? How do you feel about this?.<p>It seems that the most important thing your xW could do is be on the same wavelenth (committed) in following MB techniques for affair proofing any future marriage. Otherwise it doesn't look good that she will remain faithful in a future marriage with you.<p>She would have to practice radical honesty with not only you but herself as well. You must find out what EN's those other BF's satisfied in her during your marriage and after your divorce.<p>I too am divorced with two girls (I have full custody) and I would be lying if I said I did not have any feelings for her despite all the hurt she caused me. But I would not want to remarry my xW if she could not committ to the principles of MB.<p>I thank God that I found MB because if I ever find someone special that I would like to share my life with in M, I will be able to know how to nurture said M.<p>Good luck.<p>Joe

PWIT,<p>I think your last post is precisely why you need to do this. You do have several things that draw you to exW. 1. Is the children. 2. Is you still have love for her.<p>You also have some reasons not to do this. 1. She cheated on you in the past. 2. Her past behavior is to come to when she thought she had lost you.<p>However, the only way to get over the second reason for not doing this is to: JUST DO IT! The cheating is something that will have to be explored at length before you two really do reconcile.<p>It seems to me if she is pushing for this, that you two need to sit down and have a very long chat about the issues that must be overcome, your mindset going into this (last shot to find out yes or no). It is not a mortal lock that you two will succeed in finding the love for each other, and the maturity to meet each others needs and make good partners.<p>This needs to be a slow process, with alot of communication between you two. Plus given her track record alot of commitment on her part to honesty and openness.<p>I know it will be very hard to tell your current girl friend. I suspect that honesty about why, your doubts about doing it, and so forth might help. Sadly, you get to tell her "it's not about you". Just about the worst thing anyone really wants to hear. Yet, it really isn't about her. It is about resolving your issues with exW. <p>It will be hard but I think it is doubtful that your relationship with her will be healthy until you get over your exW, her affairs, and how you feel about the situation now.<p>Keep posting I am sure you will get more advice.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

thanks again, <p>Reguarding me wanting more kids, I do not think so. It would really be a streach for me. I did tell her that. The exW does tend to say things that seem more fantasy than reality. Perhaps it is maturity? I am 34 sh eis 33 - after all we have been through I belive we both have grown however.<p>JL - you are right and I really do need to "just do it" with the exGF, at thi spoint I am thinking to much and not acting enough. The ExW has made coments about counseling for the long term if things work - I think that is a good sighn. She is also and has been to counseling for a few years now and belives in it. Again a good sighn. It is strange, or should I say she is, since we have been divorced she has made coments that "we will get remaried" "I am the only on eshe trusts" etc... blew my mind and really did not now how to take that. <p>Also there is no question that the current relationship, although good, is not a 100% effort from me. I do belive it is based on unresolved exW issues and I have been trying and telling myself that I can resolve them and still have a relationship, that some day I would "see the light" sort o speak ....<p>anyway - thank you .

Go for it. I have heard of several people who have divorced (various reasons) and then remarried. There is something there between you and your ex, explore the options. I am a betrayed spouse and trust and forgiveness can be had. <p>I also think the kids should be a reason, maybe not the main one but they should be a factor. What makes me love my H, well it's him, us, our children, our dreams, our futures, everything. Family is part of that and because of that, it's a good reason to reconcile. <p>There was a Cathy cartoon strip that went something like this (I think it applies to both men & women though) ---- Men will try to fix a broken TV, they will twist this and that, replace parts, etc but when a relationship is broken they just pitch it to the side. ---- It says a lot about our way of thinking now a days and it's a shame that people don't invest the time necessary in keeping a relationship alive or fixing one with problems. All too often we take the easy way out (I include me in this statement too). <p>Go For It - Go For It and Good Luck I wish you and your ex the best. I hope with due time you repost saying that you are getting married again. We all live and learn and what a wonderful lesson you guys may have learned. Congrats.

Thanks, I plan to have a discusion with current GF in teh next day or two, it's difficult to today/tomorow becuase I have the kids this weekend, so I have to sit tight. I think she has teh feeling something is up as I tend to have a difficult time hiding how I feel. Right now I feel lik eI do no want to be in the relationship with the GF becuase I am thinking about exW. <p>I also had some long discusions with teh exW and we both, I think, are setting realistic expectations. <p>1. both of be single
2. go to counseling
3. take our time - don't rush.
4. Don't let teh kids know anything
5. see what happens.<p>thanks again.