Elizabeth living near Madison, WI, and no, they do not let you waive child support here. In fact they go so far as to not allow support to be given from one parent to the other. It all must go through the WI children's trust.

Luc. It seems that we are married to the same person. I am going through the same issues you are. I have three children and I'm fighting for custody. She lives at the gym and anywhere else as long as its not home. All I can say is that you need the best custody attorney you can find and protect yourself emotionaly. The thought of an "OM" with my wife is as strange to me as it is to you, but thats the reality and I have been living with this sort of thing for to many years. Its time to move on with the children and let our WS find what they believe is happiness. As for us its time to rebuild our lives and to keep children as close as possible.
I know there is pain from this in every way. But in time we will not feel it as much and the person we are unencumbered by our WS issues will emerge better and stronger then ever.

Thanks all for comments.<p>Elizabeth, I live in IL - here I have a friend's papers who got joint physical custody without child support. However, key to the argument was joint physical and equal income between spouses. In our case, we will definitely lack the equal income - so if that is the key then it won't work. <p>However, right now it is all on hold. We had two meetings between just the two of us - one good, one not so good. But the bottom line is W called her attornee and put it on hold - her attornee told her they could leave it filed and it will sit for 60 days until the court calls and asks what is going on. Since I was never served a summons - it is on hold at least till April.<p>So P I have time to actually talk to Harley (still scared about $$$). Thanks for the encouragement Cerri - I'm not letting go yet. I understand your comments Adam. But I'm still holding out - like P says: we will be in each others lives almost daily with or without a divorce due to the demands of parenting - so she won't find the freedom she seeks.<p>But I am glad last week is behind me.<p>~ Luc

Luc,
Email me, I am in IL every weekend in Northbrook. I went to Western Ill, and Lake Forest. My uncle is a lawyer in Wilmette, and does divorces. Maybe I can get you some free advice, or at least you can call me - my cell is a 847 #.
Elizabeth
elizabethwilkie@yahoo.com

Hi Luc,<p>I checked here a few times over the weekend, to see if you had posted, and how you might be doing. Another 60 days sounds great. BTW, when I started MB counseling, Jennifer asked my wife to just give it three months. Put divorce and everything else on hold for three months. Jennifer expected that I could make enough changes in three months, that my wife would at least change her mind about divorce. The three month deadline came and went, and then at about five months, my wife made a really encouraging comment, saying she &#8220;realized now that divorce was not the right thing to do for us.&#8221; Now, that was about a year ago, and you know the rest of the story.<p>Luc, you&#8217;ve got sixty days to really get your stuff in order, to make those changes in yourself that you need to do. To Plan A. As AdamS said though, I think everything your wife is doing is pointing to an affair or OM. Now she&#8217;s staying at an extended hotel? Honestly though, it doesn&#8217;t change what you need to do, but it just reinforces that you are going to have to do a flawless job at it. Because you are probably competing with yourself (and your own history of bad habits), and OM (who meets her needs in her new fantasy life). Again, just critical that you do this right.<p>Luc wrote: So P I have time to actually talk to Harley (still scared about $$$).<p>Luc, you can get some good advice on these boards, but no disrespect to anyone, it IS NOT as good as Jennifer or Steve working with you to develop your Plan and coach you. Support is excellent here, coaching good sometimes too, but formulating a strong Plan based on your own situation is best kept to the professionals. If I didn&#8217;t think so, I wouldn&#8217;t have spent so much money on Jennifer sessions. <p>You can make the session more effective by reading FIL/SIL, and maybe SAA, ahead of time. Then you won&#8217;t spend a lot of your valuable session time discussing basic concepts. But if it is at all possible, spend the money on the coaching sessions. And do it as soon as possible. The clock is ticking.

Luc wrote: So P I have time to actually talk to Harley (still scared about $$$).
<p>Hey friend, you are unrealistic about what a D would cost.......<p>Mine is now past the $20,000. mark.<p>And that is money spent to tear apart a home, a family, and more than one life.<p>What you spend on MB counselling won't even come close to what it can cost for a D. And you have the hope that you will come out of it with your family in one piece.<p>Please, I beg you, don't let that hold you back!!!!!<p>Blessings.... [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Cerri

Hey there,<p>How are you?<p>Cerri

Thanks,<p>I am doing alright. I got your perspective of counseling $$$ vs Divorce $$$. Sounds right - I am reading all the literature from the Counseling site - basic concepts and all - I have only read SAA so there are many topics not brought up in that book.<p>It's painful and I am basically taking care of the children. They are staying one night this weekend with W. It's been nice actually _ I had to adjust my work schedule and we're getting up - playing the music loud, making big breakfast, and then heading off to school. Then I drive to work rather than take the train. <p>We had a banquet to attend for my son Sunday. That is when it hit me how different things were. I had knots in my stomach before she showed up. And I've been away from her enough now that I noticed a change in my behavior when she was around - suddenly lacking in confidence, became hesitant, and socially closed down. She left early because she got bored (she came and went alone) and then I was suddenly outgoing and engaging again. I'm realizing I have been in many ways unsure and a follower mostly in our relationship. W is a strong driver personality - and I am more quiet and analytical.<p>Anyway, I have had a lot of support as I have finally learned to open up. And alot of confused friends who wondered why I have never shared any of this to them over the past year. <p>Thanks for your comments,<p>Luc

Hi Luc,<p>Yeah, sort of feels like walking on pins and needles sometimes doesn't it? Afraid to do anything that might upset your spouse. And knowing things you honestly would not have guessed would upset her, in fact seem to.<p>SAA was a good book. Honestly, I wish I had read it sooner. Waited until D-day. I read in a Harley newsletter yesterday that Lovebusters was just updated and being re-released. His Needs/Her Needs was also rewritten not too long ago, so you might want to add both of these if you don't have them. I have a collection! To be honest, they are relatively cheap (for hard-back books) if ordered through the MB website.<p>Good going on doing things with the kids Luc. Turn this into a really special time with their Dad, instead of witness to troubles in the marriage. You grasped this much quicker than I did. I kept wanting to pile on the time with my wife, at the expense of my daughter, because I viewed the solution at the time as needing to be more focused on wife. Eventually, I could see my daugther was starved for her Dad's attention that had gone away. Some of my efforts to improve myself through Plan A, to reduce my anger, etc., really caused incredible changes in my daughter's eyes. She really opened up to me, and I found something in my life that wasn't necessarily completing missing before, but certainly blossumed into more than I ever dreamed possible. Regardless of how this turns out Luc, you can always look back and say what a wonderful relationship you have with your children. And your children love you for everything you do. AND, if your wife has any Family Commitment needs at all, you can be that you're making deposits there now too. It WILL be something she remembers when faced with a difficult decision of moving on, or working to restore her marriage with you.<p>Gotta run and get some work done. Keep it up; sounds like you are doing very well at Protection and Family Commitment EN.

Taking a break this weekend from all of this MB and D stuff because of family visiting - and just focusing on giving my children a special weekend, and then at church today guess what the topic was. HIS NEED HER NEEDS. They went through Harley's top 5 needs for him and for her - in explicit detail. They had the book discounted in the church store. Apparantly, a survey done at the church showed that all of us fell into the same general categories regarding needs.<p>Interesting,<p>~ Luc

THAT is cool! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]