My wife has had an "pseudo-affair" over the phone with another man. She says she was just talking and I think I believe her. Anyway she also states that she doesn't want to be married anymore. We have 2 children 8 and 5 boys. I love all of them dearly and this really hit me out of the blue. Anyway I am committed to doing whatever I can to change and fix my marriage, however she will have nothing of it. She says I am controlling and that she believes there is no way I can change that.<p>I think I can change with work especially when all that I hold dear is on the line. Anyway, I don't want to kick her out and told her that I would move out when we were more financially secure. She agreed. I am now essentially living the same as always but sleeping in the extra bedroom. We talk and joke about things, but there is no intimacy at all. I can't hug her or kiss her. I feel no anger towards her because I know that she was filling a need that I had left void. But without the opportunity to be intimate I don't know whether I am just putting off the inevitable or whether I am helping my cause. She did look at me several times tonight, but quickly looked away. She was gone for much of the afternoon, and while I want to believe that nothing was going on, a part of me wonders whether she visited this other guy. She says she had only seen him once.<p>1. I want to leave immediately, but financially and mainly for the kids I want to stay. Sometimes I think if I leave then she would see what it would be like without me. I think she is living under the delusion that she can just pick up everything that I do without a hitch. <p>2. Or I can drag this out and get everything in order so that the transition is as painless as possible, which may allow her to do those things and not let her see that I could be needed and desired. <p>3. Or I can just keep staying here and put everything off as long as possible, but then we might come closer together or farther apart. I just don't know. <p>I went to church for the first time in 10 years. It was wonderful. Maybe if she will go with me we can get through this. I just see NO desire to try. I kind of feel like I don't have all the data because she is a good woman and I don't think she would hurt our kids without trying harder.<p>I know that I don't care about the "affair". I can do what it takes to fill those voids. I just read "His needs Her needs" so obvious but I sure wasn't doing all that I should have been. Wish I had read it 6 months ago.<p>Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks for your time.<p>[ February 04, 2002: Message edited by: I feel so lost... ]<p>[ February 05, 2002: Message edited by: I feel so lost... ]<p>[ February 06, 2002: Message edited by: I feel so lost... ]</p>

I think you should read about the "Plan A" and "Plan B" stuff on this site if you haven't found it yet. It seems like you are in a place where you need to make a plan, and see where to go from here. Jumping right to the divorce stuff seems kind of heat of the moment, see if you can't get her to take a step back and look at the big picture for a minute.
Elizabeth

Hi,
i can really feel your pain, i really don't know what to tell u except that keep going to church,and get involved with the members there and try and see if u can speek to the minster of that church to find out if he does marrige councleing. if he does u might want to consider that. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] and if your wife does not want to go with u maybe you should go by yourself that way he can advise you on what to do about this and help you deal with it. there are alot of christian councleing that goes by a person's incom. as well as a lot of churches will give free councleing. i hope this helps u some. Cathy

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by I feel so lost...:
<strong>...without the opportunity to be intimate I don't know whether I am just putting off the inevitable or whether I am helping my cause.<p>I went to church for the first time in 10 years. It was wonderful. </strong><hr></blockquote><p>Hello, Ifeel...
Believe it or not, you are in a good place, compared to many here. Please do not give up!<p>The reason I put your quote above in my answer is to point out the "Mars/Venus" thing....as a man, you think it is important to have SF to prove your love to her. Obviously, by her EA (Emotional Affair)-phone convos, she has proved that she can "feel loved" by talking only. Very typical of us Venus-types! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] Men just don't understand how a woman can feel "connected" to someone they are not having sex with, but they can!<p>Soooo, having cleared that up, you need to read through all the concepts here on this website, and begin to understand it all. If you do not know what your W's EN's are, take the test AS IF you were answering for HER. That's what I had to do to determine my H's, since he WON'T talk about such things right now. I do know what his are, and you probably will have a pretty good idea, too.<p>Find out all about Plan A & B, as Justthewife has advised you....this is your best chance right now. Believe, it - IT WORKS!!!!! Time to get to work.<p>Good luck, and remember, we are all here to help you all along the way. DO NOT discuss the "big D" with her, DO NOT bring up her R w/om....just Plan A her.....love her the way SHE feels loved.<p>God Bless,

1) you ignore the fog of wanting a divorce,
2) you grab your visa card and you call the Harley's here and get on their list. . .
3) YOU DO NOT MOVE OUT! . . . the spouse that wants a divorce moves out, that's what a WS does when they don't want the marriage. . . .<p>4) you read everything here, and keep acting like you are dating her, and ask her out on dates, if you are refused, you agree and go on being happy
and find something else to do with her, or she will do with you. . .<p>5) if she brings up the divorce topic, you will listen politely, and and show some compassion towards her, with statement like "this must be tough for you. . . how does this make you feel?" if she askes you to move out, you simply say, "thanks, but no, i signed up for better or for worse. . ." and you wait for her response. . .<p>6) finally, do to this web site and take the test, www.personalitytype.com/quiz and take the test for you, and take the test for your wife. . .
then get back here and post the results. . ..<p>7) you find a lawyer through divorced friends, and you find out what your rights are as far as staying in the house. . .<p>8) Finally, you get some personal counseling, or go to amazon.com, find some books about surviving and affair, and go to the nearest library and get a copy and proceed to read it. . .sp[end your imte educating yourself. . . .<p>good luck. . . .<p>wiftty<p>[ February 04, 2002: Message edited by: WhenIfindthetime ]</p>

Hahaha, that little test says it all. We are polar opposites in EVERY catagory.
I am
Introverted, sensor, thinker, Judger
She is
Extroverted, Intuitive, Feeler, Perciever<p>Not one overlapping thing for either of us. <p>Now why the heck do I love her so? haha<p>Feeling better if for no other reason than I do.<p>Rosesj

actually it is not that I feel the need to have Sexual Fulfillment. It is the fact that I can't rub her back or hug or kiss her to show her that I truly love her. I know that you can talk and be loved, but MY/OUR way of being together has always included alot of hugging and rubbing. Touch the shoulder as I pass in the hall, rub her back as she cooks, etc. That is all unavailable at this time. I am not worried about sex, although God she is beautiful and everytime I see her I hunger. But that is for me, eventhough she has always been an active participant. <p>Haha, as I fold the clothes I fold her skimpy underware, hey maybe that is why I have felt like doing laundry so often lately. Come to think of it. hahaha<p>She could have put a pair in the dishwasher and I probably would have done dishes more as well. haha. No seriously Dishes and kitchen cleanup has always been my job. She cooked and I cleaned. She is a wonderful cook.<p>I love her and I am holding onto hope and doing everything as smart as I can. I only hope that with time and patience that we can reform what we once had and make it better with a more vigilant husband and assertive wife.<p>I always thought of her as being so strong. i never thought that I could control her or put her down. Truthfully, I just couldn't believe that I would be capable of overcoming her will so I never thought about it. I kind of thought of it as a safety valve. She was so stron that if I overstepped my boundries, she would let me have it. Therefore when I never "got it" I guess I just continued on the path thinking nothing was wrong. <p>I have written alot about the situation on google alt.support.marriage I would appreciate any and all comments and opinions about what I have done/should do/shouldn't do. I know that this is all very new and I really feel lost. I appreciate your support.
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...3Fhl%3Den%26group%3Dalt.support.marriage<p>
[ February 05, 2002: Message edited by: I feel so lost... ]<p>[ February 05, 2002: Message edited by: I feel so lost... ]</p>

We just had a big talk about what is going on. She is truly an amazing woman. I have not been what I should have. We are a product of each other without a doubt. I see how she says that she used to hold back her opinion when it didn't agree with me.<p>Therefore when we "read I" made a decision after a discussion I felt that I was right and she was wrong and what happened was because of me rather than us. "If we had gone her way we may have ended up with things not working out like they did." Therefore I was RIGHT. WRONG. Like I wrote before. You can get to LA from New York via China but it is easier to turn around and head west. I realize now that I should have been turning around much more than I did, if for no other reason than to have been listening to my wife when she was giving her opinion on how to read the map. She deserved more than I gave her, that is for sure. I realize that now. <p>She believes that there are only two options that can occur at the current stage. One is reconciliation in which the strong woman that she has refound is once again turned upon and crushed beneath my foot. Or flight in which although it is not a comfortable future that is understood and known, does not have the KNOWN path that would lead her to revert to what has been. She sees no alternative in which we could be a couple of equal value and worth. She cannot see that as a possibility. Even when she appeared to even glimpse that possibility she quickly quelled the thought by reverting to her current furious, strong self. She is getting her strength from her anger. She wants us to get away from each other. She wants us to sell our house and move into separate places, or for me to move or her to move. Anything but be together. It almost seemed as though she was going to allow herself to see a possible future in which a vague "other" possibility could occur. But once again she turned angry and would not even allow that thought to get into her mind. <p>I fear that if adequate time and distance is not given then she will feel that in order to survive, she must push the issue and file. She is uncomfortable in the same house as me currently and that keeps her on guard for any instance in which I might be trying to manipulate her. She is angry that I am reading the "self help books". She says that she told me I should read one before but I absolutely don't remember her ever telling me that. She very well may have, but I cannot think of when it was. God, I wish that I had been more receptive to what she was saying. I didn't realize that I wasn't hearing what she was saying. Now, I may not have that chance. We did talk alot tonight. Some good, but most very defensive from her point of view. I really tried to not be aggressive or accusatory or defensive myself and many of the things that I said were felt by her to be such. <p>I really don't know where we are going from here. I still have hope, but it is very much been taken away from me. I am more afraid that she will make a decision now in order to "protect" herself rather than make a decision in 6 months because it is the best thing for all of us. Whether that is divorce in 6 months or reconciliation I don't know, but I know that anything done right now will be for the wrong reasons when looking at the big picture. I asked her if she felt that time would make her weaker and she said no. That may have been good because maybe she sees that no decision is pending at the moment. No decision must be made in order for other things to occur. I fully suspect that we will have to move apart for this to happen. I don't think that even on my best behavior, she will be comfortable enough to allow herself to get out of this anger. It is all that is protecting her at the moment. <p>Well, even though tonight was not what I had hoped it would be, I guess that what bothers me the most is the fact that before I didn't understand where she was coming from. I think I have a better understanding about just where she is from her standpoint instead of from mine. <p>I still hope for change, but don't forsee it in our current situation. So I am faced with moving out in order to spare my children the extra difficulty of having to move as well as loose their daddy. I will not let them loose me of course. But still, I will not be able to wake them with a song everyday like I get to now. Who knows, maybe they are better off in a sense as well. Maybe they will have the time and distance to be able to find themselves as well. I shudder to think that I have been as controlling over them as I have been for my wife. If that is the case then maybe I shouldn't have the opportunity to overlord that control until I have really felt the changes that must occur and proven that they are a part of me rather than a passing fancy.<p>I guess that you guys have maybe dealt with this type of stuff before. I really don't believe that my wife would ever try to keep the kids from joint custody, but it does make me wonder about moving out. She would obviously have the kids more than I would given our job types and schedules. I have no problem with that, but would have a problem with the inability to have them with me an equal (legally) amount of time if I was capable. I don't want MORE I want equal time. <p>I guess what I am asking is would it weaken my ability to preserve joint custody if I were to be the one that moved out? Even if it was consentual between both of us in order to preserve what little home type atmosphere that we were able to. Would the fact that I was the one that got an apartment hurt my case if in the future she decided that she didn't want me to have the kids as much, or decided to move to Kalamazoo or something? I would like nothing better than to never have to have a lawyer involved in this regardless of how it all turns out, but neither do I want to play the fool with 20/20 hindsight. <p>I REALLY don't think that it would be an issue, but I am not willing to leave it up to that. I have thought just now that maybe before I moved out I could get a legal document stating that we would both have joint custody of the children regardless of the outcome of the move. Signed before I moved out. I think that she would understand, however, I have no way of knowing that and she might become offended and push the issue because of it. She is really angry right now and I am not sure of anything that she is thinking. She said tonight that she was unsure of the long separation. She is wanting out and if I don't move out I think that she will force the divorce and that will be all. No chance of reconciliation at all because there will be nothing left to reconcile. <p>That is the crux with which I am faced with tonight my friends. We have agreed to look into our finances and see where we stand at the present time. I really doubt the realism for us to be able to financially make it separated. After about July, I will have other opportunities that could allow for a more easy move, but I think that there is NO WAY that this can go on that long. We will be separated long before that or we will be divorced long before that. Plain and simple. <p>I also fear that she is not dealing with the issues that she is going through in a manner that is healthy. I just don't think that she is talking about them and letting them out. She appears, to me, to keep them bottled up then BLAM out they come in an angry torrent of hate. Without working through them I fear that they will ruin her or drive her to do something that she wouldn't do in another state of mind. She worries me with this part of her. She can't talk to me, although I hope at one point that she will be. Maybe after we are truly separated and she has had time to release some of this anger and resentment towards me, maybe she can talk with me. She has all the control right now. Any attempt on my part to take that away would be met with fury and forms, I am sure. She must work through this however she is going to do it. I can't recommend andything because it will be immediately turned away and replaced with the opposite of what I was recommending simple because it came from me. I was it tonight. She was so defensive about even the most benign words from me that she couldn't look at me without fire in her eyes. <p>I am unsure whether I hurt her this much, or whther she is overreacting (I doubt) or whether this is truly defense against a usurper. <p>I would give anything that I had in order to be able to "FIX" this but there is no fix. There is only time and for the first time in my life "luck". I have always felt that luck was for those who were not willing to make things happen. Well I realize that luck in this case is my best chance at being able to celebrate another anniversary with her. I truly believe that should we make it through this, we could do anything. I am extrememly capable, and I have so underestimated this woman that I have no idea what she is capable of. I would love nothing better than to have the chance to find out. <p>Our anniversary is June 8. This year it will be 11 years. I can forsee having number 50. I really can. I have never been an eternal optomist and I can tell you that by everything that is happening, I would think that I was psychotic if I could look from the outside only. Maybe I am, maybe I have prepared this little world in which I want something so bad tht I can't see that it might not happen. This may be the first thing I have ever not had some input into. In order to win this one I have to choose not to play. Only with this strategy can I have a chance. And only with this strategy can we have the opportunity to make it to June 8. I must trust to the strength of my wife and the power that she has shown me over the past few hours. I must trust that when I asked her to marry me, I picked a great woman. And I did, regardless if we leave this world together or separate, I picked a GREAT woman. I am not giving in, just letting the facts overtake my control and trying to see where the waters take me. This is how she has been most of our life together. Maybe I need to sit back and let it all ride, because what I have been doing isn't working. <p>Post up a storm please. I need something to help me keep my chin up. I have boards to study for, which I should be doing instead of typing to you all, however, this is keeping my mind going. I can cram a bunch of useless facts into my head when I am either sitting alone in an apartment or trying to keep her from ravaging me. (prefferably the later hahaha). <p>Oh, anybody have any jokes? I could really use some. Anything at all. I am actually in an OK place at the moment. The stress of not knowing is slowly decreasing in intensity. <p>Did you hear about the guy who walked into the bar with a aligator under his arm?.......<p>Come one folks give them to me..... PLEASE!!!!