Hi, Everyone!<p>I wanted to give you all a brief update on what is happening in my life. Believe it or not, I have to keep reminding myself that you&#8217;all care about me! <p>Well, during the week, my H managed to work 66 hours in six days, and managed to give me 7.5 hours&#8212;seven hours all on one day last Sunday, and only half an hour throughout the week. I am STARVING for his attention, and neither he nor the counselor seem to "get it" that you can&#8217;t work on a relationship in half an hour a week!! <p>On Friday afternoon, we went to the counselor together and I was really disappointed with the session&#8230;almost heartsick, really. During the session, one of the questions we were supposed to answer and tell each other is, "What is something you need your partner to understand about where you are?" Well, I swallowed my fear and spoke up: "I am on my last legs. I&#8217;ve been carrying this relationship alone for two years now, and I either need a partner or we need to split up. I am on the verge of giving up." Well, rather than acknowledge that I had been accurately expressing my aching heart, loneliness, and drying up lovebank, both the counselor and my H said, "Oh come on, CJ. You don&#8217;t really mean that (hubby) hasn&#8217;t been doing any work, do you?" Well of course not. He&#8217;s doing some work ON HIMSELF but little or nothing between verbally abusive attacks on me or on the relationship! I tried to express that he won&#8217;t talk, won&#8217;t tell me his EN&#8217;s and LB&#8217;s, blames me for everything, etc. and that I can&#8217;t take much more, and once again, my H said, "It&#8217;s your fault I don&#8217;t tell you anything&#8230;I can&#8217;t talk to you!" <p>Well, I was disappointed, but we explored this avenue somewhat further. My H said he is very upset and disappointed when I say I&#8217;ll do something and I don&#8217;t. He misses the days when we used to work together and he didn&#8217;t realize how good he had it when I worked with him. COME ON! Does anyone else see it?? Is it just me? I am to blame because I don&#8217;t follow through&#8212;isn&#8217;t that the way it sounds?? Well, he misses about half of the story!!! He doesn&#8217;t mention that HE over commits himself and then EXPECTS me to save him from the mess he has created. He doesn&#8217;t mention that he constantly YELLS at me for not working in the right priority order when I do offer to help him. He should be appreciating that I am doing ANYTHING, and he yells at me if I work on the bookkeeping when he wanted me to work on the manual!! He doesn&#8217;t mention that I already work a full-time job and am expected to do HIS work after my 8 hour day AND still maintain the home, make dinner, coordinate the kids, help with homework, schedule the household (who&#8217;s going where and who&#8217;s picking up whom and when), make sure the kids do their chores, AND do household laundry! Nope, all he says is that I don&#8217;t follow through!! <p>The counselor asked me why I didn&#8217;t just say "no" and I do. Just this week, my H was giving me a lot of pressure to help him type an operations manual (about 1000 pages!!) and I told him no. But my H keeps on and keeps on and keeps on whining and asking me after I&#8217;ve already said "no." He&#8217;ll say, "Well, I am buried in work. If you can&#8217;t help out, I won&#8217;t be able to spend any time with you." Once again, does anyone else see it, or is it just me? Isn&#8217;t that a threat&#8212;a selfish demand? "Do what I want or I will withhold from you what you need." So, the decision I face is not an autonomous ability to say "no"&#8212;I must either give in to his pressure or go without spending time with him! But no one else but me seems to see that as a problem!! The real "fix" to this is NOT CJ helping out or picking up the slack when he paints himself into a corner&#8212;it&#8217;s teaching HIM to say "no" to work!! Why doesn&#8217;t anyone see this?? What I would like to hear is, "CJ, I have a problem. I over committed myself, and if you could help me, I would appreciate it. You are free to say no if you are not able to do it, and I will still respect whatever decision you make. You are so loving to even consider helping me out of a mess that I made! If you say no, I will have to face the consequences of the mess I made." <p>Anyway, while we were discussing this, I was growing more and more frustrated inside because no one was recognizing where the real problem is, and my H was growing more and more animated and loud in volume in telling me that he was frustrated because of me, so finally, I just broke down crying. Big, sobs. The counselor said, "What is happening here? What nerve did we hit?" and all I could think of to say is that my H was blaming me and yelling at me. Here&#8217;s the awful part. The counselor said, "I didn&#8217;t see that. That didn&#8217;t happen here. You need to be stronger and stand up for yourself." AARRGGHH!!<p>Okay&#8212;now I do realize that at that moment my H&#8217;s volume was increasing due to passion: he feels strongly that he is frustrated when I don&#8217;t do what I say I&#8217;ll do. I also realize that at that moment I FELT blamed and yelled at even though it may not have been happening right then and there&#8230;it was the week BEFORE that was triggering this reaction. I get that, okay? BUT, it was a DISASTER for me!!! I was ignored, neglected and verbally abused all week, and when I get to the counselor to say I can&#8217;t hold on much longer, my H starts in on work-work-work, I get all triggered and start crying, and the counselor tells me "It never happened!"
Why isn&#8217;t anyone LISTENING to me?? I feel like I have to go to extremes to PROVE to everyone that what I say is happening really IS happening! <p>The worst part is that after the session, I was still sort of weepy and I tried to talk to my H about what had happened. BIG MISTAKE!! I tried to say, "I am crying and feel like you yell at me and blame me because for thirteen years, you have verbally abused me and never made it right with me and never stopped. I am just asking for you to not hit me with three or four loud sentences in a row! Pace yourself. Acknowledge that some of YOUR actions contributed to the fact that I am afraid I&#8217;m going to be attacked again, and because of the damage you did, be a little extra gentle. Geez, that seems reasonable." (Here it comes.)<p>He said, (and I quote) "I&#8217;m so glad we went to this counseling session because now I have proof that I&#8217;ve never yelled at you. It&#8217;s all in your head and you are crazy. It&#8217;s all your problem." <p>Can you BELIEVE that? God, I was devastated. Naturally, the verbal assault continued for several more minutes, until I walked away, but this time something inside me just snapped and it was like my eyes opened. His "Give Up Guy" came out and just ripped me to shreds, threatening to leave, and threatening to kick me out, and threatening to get custody of the kids because now he could prove I was crazy&#8230; <p>The rest of the afternoon, we avoided each other. He asked me to come sit with him and watch TV, and I did, but I wasn&#8217;t really warm and snuggling (for obvious reasons). He started to doze off watching TV, and I reminded him that he needed to go to the bank if he wanted to get any cash for the night (BTW, about two weeks ago we had scheduled a dinner date with another couple, and up to that point I had intended to go with him just to avoid embarrassment&#8212;just be a little cold and distant, but not awkward). He was FURIOUS. He lashed out at me with a fury! He was swearing and stomping and slashing at my heart with vicious words I did not deserve for just reminding him about the bank. I even told him, "I did what you wanted me to do and I sat down with you. You have no right to scream at me like this!!" After that, I said that I didn&#8217;t care if it DID humiliate him, I WOULD NOT go out with him anywhere after being treated like that all afternoon and evening. He said, "I KNEW you would cancel at the last minute and make me look like a fool. I knew it! You would rather make me look like an idiot! Shut up and take it, you stupid (part of female anatomy)." Then he started to get dressed up and he said, "If you won&#8217;t come with me, I&#8217;ll just dance with every other woman in the place." He ranted and raved like that for about 20 minutes (I&#8217;m sure somehow justifying in his head that it was all MY fault!), and then he came to his senses. <p>At the end of the night, when we went to bed, I said, "We need to have a &#8216;Come to Jesus&#8217; meeting. I need you to admit what you did to me&#8212;call it abuse and say out loud to me, the damage that your anger has caused. I need you to acknowledge the harm that you did to me and to the kids when you dumped us for another woman without warning&#8230;and kept going back. I need you to start treating me gently and tenderly as if I am someone whom you love, not someone to take for granted. And I need you to win me back, starting right now. When you came back, I was just happy to have you at home and I never made you treat me with the respect I deserved. I never made you suffer a single consequence for the way you had treated me, and now ignored and neglected." Okay&#8212;it wasn&#8217;t in perfect, "I feel ___ when you ___ because ___" format, and it was pretty demanding, but I felt like I had to lay it on the line!! <p>Saturday was a dark day for me, in a way. Of course my H worked all day and night, but I was kind of grateful for some time to myself. He ran service calls while I had the kids at home and did some household chores and just "hung out" at home. While he was gone doing the service calls, I got out my old journals and read them. I read all of them&#8230;starting from 1989 and then again 1994 to the present. It was numbing. Do you know what I saw? I saw the same **** and the same behavior from YEARS ago! I have been treated like this for years, and it was like scales fell off of my eyes, because I am STILL being verbally abused and I&#8217;m not doing anything about it!! I saw a letter in there that I had written in 1996 that said, almost verbatim, exactly what I was about to sit down and write on Saturday, and I couldn&#8217;t believe it!!! That is SIX YEARS ago&#8212;and I was going to write the same thing again!<p>That&#8217;s when I knew nothing had really changed. In fact, if anything, the one thing that HAD changed was that he had cheated on me and not denied it this time (like the last eight times when he told me I was making it up or making something out of nothing). I had lost my naiveté, my illusions about our marriage, and my hope! IT&#8217;S TIME FOR ME TO STOP KIDDING MYSELF. It&#8217;s time to face reality and accept the fact that he is not going to stop verbally abusing me, and if I don&#8217;t do something about it, I will be abused like this for my whole life! I had thought that going to a personal counselor was progress. I had hoped that it was helping, because he was no longer "Aggressive Guy" (in other words openly aggressive and abusive)&#8230;he was now "Give Up Guy." But "Give Up Guy" is just Mr. Passive/Aggressive in a disguise. The "Give Up Guy" comes out, slashes me with vicious, spiteful, AWFUL words, and then retreats into "giving up" when I try to talk or defend myself. As soon as I&#8217;m done, "Give Up Guy" comes right back out and hurls another name or blames me, and then retreats. <p>The truly sad part is that, so far, the messages my H has told me about from his counseling are "Those verbal abuse web sites are so extreme. It&#8217;s not REALLY all that bad. They&#8217;re set up by feminazi types!" and "I never did yell at you. You&#8217;re crazy and it&#8217;s all in your head!" Does that sound HELPFUL to you??? NO!!! Does that sound like a man who realizes and admits that he has been verbally ABUSIVE to me and that he is responsible for causing some damage here? NO! He still won&#8217;t even call it abuse! He says that all the years he screamed and raged at me, he took me for granted. Well, it went WAY beyond that!! I feel disappointed in the counselor too. He is a guy experienced with PHYSICAL ABUSE&#8230;why is he going wishy-washy now?? It seems to me that the messages should be "YOU MAY NOT CONTINUE TO VERBALLY ABUSE YOUR WIFE!!!" and to me "You need to be safe. Period."<p>Anyway, what a realization! I was knocked off my seat! I have put up with it, and put up with it, and put up with it, and I haven&#8217;t even stood up for myself!! Why did I just sit back and let him mistreat me like that? Why didn&#8217;t I have a backbone and love myself enough to say, "NO MORE!" I have GOT to end this. He has had thirteen years to end it if he was going to&#8212;and for two years now, I have even had the consciousness about meeting EN&#8217;s and not LB-ing! For at least the past two years (and more really) I have martyred myself for this marriage, and while I&#8217;m cooking at the stake, he&#8217;s cooking hotdogs in my fire!!<p>On Sunday, my H worked AGAIN all day. Yes&#8212;on Super Bowl Sunday AND on the anniversary of one of our D-Days, he left me alone from 5am until 8pm, and then came home so tired that he fell immediately asleep. While he was gone, I went to the bookstore and found a good book that I think will help me CLEARLY AND LOGICALLY decide what to do. It&#8217;s called, "Invisible Wounds: a Self-help Guide for Women in Destructive Relationships" and it has exercises in it to help a person in my position to think clearly&#8230;not through rose-colored glasses or hope, but clearly. What is this costing me? How close to burn out am I? Is my partner changing? BOY did I need this book, because one part of me is SO SICK AND TIRED of finally seeing that I&#8217;m still being ripped to shreds, and another part of me hates to break up our family. I think this book will really help me to rationally and sensibly make a decision. All I know is one thing. Those men can moan all they want, I am GOING to be safe. I am GOING to stop this! Period!<p>So that&#8217;s my update. I feel strangely relieved and back in control of my life right now.<p>
CJ<p>P.S. I went to my first class for rape crisis counseling (to be a counselor, not because I need counseling--calm down!), and it went well! I felt confident and I'm pretty sure I'll be good at this!!!

Oh, oh, oh, you hit a nerve. I know this is the marriage builders site, but girl...<p>Our last marriage councelling try, I went to three sessions. H told me all my problems, with that horrible accusing look on his face (he had the affair, he was turned over to social services for being "violent"...my problems? I spent to much money on craft supplies...my own money, as I make as much as he does)and the therapist nodded understandingly. H came home one day and started his normal, passive agressive crap about why wasn't his life perfect...could I please try harder. That little tie went "ping" and I said "sure...leave!". <p>I can't believe how much happier I am now. He still tries to call. Wants to be "friends". Sure he does...who is he gonna blame his life on if I'm not around? Am I perfect? No. Did I deserve his abuse for years and years? H**l, no!!!!! Is he happy now? Who cares?! I don't mean to sound flip. I just think that you reach a point where the harder you try, the more they want, and you simply can't make them happy. You just can't believe how good it feels to let go and let God. I finally believe in myself again! I have time for me! I have fun with my son! I could go on and on....and I hate to see some one else in the same dead end I was on...<p>Kady

Once you make this decision you have so much POWER. The only problem is, sometimes it takes several tries to follow through. I look at it like quitting smoking, as Mark Twain said "It is the easiest thing I have ever done, I've done it a hundred times. I was laughing as I read about how you went back to your journals and read the same stuff year after year, because I did the same thing. The passive/aggressive and verbal abuse leads to the same end result as the physical abuse. Just ask the county Sheriff guys who were at my house a couple times in October. This will be a hard road, especially when we have committed our whole being to a relationship. I have found myself wavering several times, even slept with him on Christmas eve, which got me a nice little round of antibiotics thanks. But, since I have taken back my life and he moved out I have been told by my son's school how much better things are for him since the change, and my blood pressure which was at stroke out level with 2 meds is now NORMAL on one half of one med. I totally believe in Marriage Builders and the concepts, but there is a certain point where one has to see the true nature of a relationship and the damage it is doing. I too was the crazy one, the overreacting jealous for no reason, silly girl, who couldn't see what was "really" happening. The counselor we saw for 4 long years never bothered to mention to me how [censored] was sleeping around, even though he knew we were sleeping together. The little things are finally coming together, like how his car mysteriously would break down when I happened to have plans with girlfriends or the cousins.... how he made me feel like I needed more medicine because I must be crazy.... how he made me write down one day what I did because he thought I spent too much time on the phone... And the kicker - I actually did it. I picked him up and cancelled plans, I got more medicine cause I musta been out of my mind, I wrote down everything I did during the day to prove to him I wasn't slacking. Take your life back and you will be amazed at how many things finally become clear. I am so proud of you because I know what it is like to live with such a [censored]. You will make it, it will not be easy, but it will be a hellofa lot better than killing yourself a little every day just to keep kissing someones butt. And who knows, maybe your [censored] will realize what is going on and get his **** together.

Hee hee hee...I hope mine gets his **** together and comes back to my front door....I'm gonna kick it right out of him!!!<p>Kady

Hello and welcome to the **** kickers club. A place for women who have finally decided they have gotten enough abuse, antibiotics, and crap about their crafts to take back their lives and finally live the life God meant them to. Happy are we who are taking control of our lives!

My dearest ((((( CJ ))))) !!!<p>"Believe it or not, I have to keep reminding myself that you’all care about me!"<p>We all DO, HAVE and WILL ALWAYS care about you and your well being!!! I'm in your corner from here on out, when too much is too much....Plan A isn't meant to be permanent and yet it is about taking care of YOU!<p>I do care!<p>Gayle<p>P.S. I try to continue to learn too. Current read of mine is "How Can I Get Through To You?" by Terrence Real (reconnecting Men and Women) 2002 release......all I can say is WOW!<p>Terrence Real is also the author of "I Don't Want To Talk About It" (Overcoming the Secret Legacy of Male Depression)<p>Take care, you are in my prayers!

I think I need to join thsi club. Things never got quite as bad as some of your examples - but there were lots of other things which came pretty close.<p>So what is the verdict on these guys? Selfishness, control freaks, Male Depression?????<p>I finally had to file for separation/divorce because when I looked back on our marriage and saw how much I put up with and noted that he wasn't changing, I just couldn't be abused any longer.<p>I just hope the kids don't pick up any of those bad personality traits.... K

My vote on the verdict is just plain "eat up with the dumb a**"!<p>Kady

Can I join?<p>FW, you really need to get counseling by yourself, with someone who understands verbal abuse. I met with our local crisis intervention counselor this past week and it really made a difference to have someone understand. Don't go to counseling with your H anymore, it won't work. I'll post more later, gotta go get the kids!<p>Anna

CJ, I think I've found a sister!<p>I am just over one year OUT and doing well. If you ever want to talk, let me know. More of my past is posted under the member number 06497 from when I first found MB.<p>buttercuploveswestley@yahoo.com

CJ,
I applaud your decision! You'll never be smart enough, work hard enough, give enough to ever satisfy him. I'm in a similar situation. Everything is my fault, and he is above reproach. Ha! When I visualize my marriage, I see myself pouring resources into a big drum, while my H is poking holes at the bottom so everything leaks out. I've tried letting the barrel run dry to see what he would do. I've tried working double time to keep a sustainable level in the drum. No matter what I try, my H treats me like an adversary instead of a member of the same team. <p>I'm separated now. I'm battling fatigue big time, but I know things'll get better. I can cite just one benefit to staying long after it's time to move on... I really don't miss him one bit. I ENJOY his absence tremendously. <p>Stand tough with your decision and dig in your heels CJ. It's the one thing you haven't tried yet to effect a change in your relationship. Patience should be a virtue, but in some cases, it can be a fault! You've gone far and beyond what normal patience would dictate.

I sent you an e-mail. You might choose not to respond now that I have found this post. I see and I understand completely. Some people never change until they are forced to take a look at their priorities instead of taking them for granted.

I'm back.....the CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE...that would be my H...came home and I never got back here last nite........<p>I have another book for you to read: "The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans. Excellent book and really an eye opener...I didn't even catch that some of the stuff he was doing was abusive till I read it. I have had the same counselling experiences as you, and I am ready to leave. Ironically, we are attending a marriage seminar this weekend...and I have an appointment with a lawyer on Wed. Guess I'm covering ALL my bases, eh? <p>If you want to email me, my address is stampalot83@hotmail.com .......it would be nice to talk to someone else in the same boat.<p>Anna