Hello everyone,<p>The Harleys' say affairs usually "die a natural death" in from 6 months to 2 years. I am interested in those that take the full 2 years (or more) to die. I would like to hear your opinions on these questions, whichever apply to your situation.<p>1. Was it worth it to you to tolerate the struggles of the WS for years in order for the A to finally die?<p>2. Did you give up too soon and wish you had held out longer before seeking D? <p>3. If the BS can stand the stress, would you recommend that he/she give the WS the full 2 years before deciding to D?<p>4. Did you wait longer than you should have before deciding D was the best option?<p>5. Here's the big question: How does the BS know when to cut their losses and make the best choices possible when he/she realizes that the M is unrecoverable?<p>I am asking because my son is BS. Next month will be one year since DIL began her A, 9 months since d-day. She still insists that she can be "friends" with OM. S and DIL are in MC. They have lived for 10 months separately (She left him.) and have a three-year-old son. From your experience, do you recommend that he continue to be patient? Two years is a long period of time to have your life in painful limbo.<p>Thanks everyone. I appreciate your opinions.
Estes

I can't tell you much, but I am a BS, and my W has been having an A since Nov. of last year. I am about at my wits end. I, myself, would hang in this as long as I could, as we have a 2 yr. old son. However, I have people on both sides of the family, that are telling me I am stupid for hanging in there, that I should've dumped her in November. They want me to get a lawyer and "run her over". I love my wife, as hard as it is for them to see, and I would do anything to get her back. Our counseler told me that time is my friend on this. The longer I hang in there, the better the chance of the M working out. The time you spend, is not wasted time by no means. I think it really just boils down to how much you can take before you decide to cut your losses, and get on with your life. Some days, that's all I want, to end it ASAP, other days, I can't imagine doing that. My M is the most important thing in my life, and I never wanted a D. Sorry I coudn't be of more help.

Confused,<p>Thanks so much for sharing your situation. It is so hard to keep hoping and hurting. I think you are right about the time you spend trying to do the right thing is not "lost." You are also right about other people not understanding why you keep working with a WS. MB has really helped me understand that nothing is truly gained by "running the [WS] over." My son says that is is very hard to demonize his W in spite of the choices she has made. I hope things work out for you and your family.<p>Estes<p>PS: Listen to yourself, your heart and mind. Do not let your family sway you in such an important decision. Only you will know what is right for your family.

I'll reply to this, Estes. But you do know that my situation was quite severe, not your tyical one timer WS.<p>Although my x-H filed for D, the Divorce itself was not to have gone thru until December '2001. <p>My point is, we had been separated for 14 mos by June '2001 when I went to my attorney and told them to expedite the D (Divorced June 13, 2001).<p>I felt numb to anything by then, and decided waiting any longer (6 mos) was futile. My x-H's 2 year mark from light-of-day will be October '2002. <p>I believe that the answer to your #5 question would be a personal case-by-case basis. Only the individual emeshed in the situation (BS) will know when enough is enough and when to cut their loses, when it's their time to make a move based on their emotional strength and logically weighing the odds of their marriage ever recovering. You just come to this place of acceptance and make the moves necessary, I think I was on auto-pilot when I made my moves, felt surreal.<p>I don't know if I've helped. It's a hard thing to explain.<p>I pray for your son and grand-son, Estes. I also pray for your DIL to start feeling some kind of reality. Fantasy lives cannot go on forever.<p>Best,
Jo<p>[ February 17, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

Estes,<p>I hit 1 year the end of Jan of my WH A hitting the light of day. He filed for DV on the 14th of Feb. He is very adament(fogged in) about this is what he wants, has never considered reconcilation. I still cling loosely to hope.<p>
WH OW is a HS sweetheart, believes that she is his true soulmate. I've tried getting us to counseling, he wouldn't have any part of that after the first visit. I think I will always wonder if we had tried together could we have saved our marriage, I am angry with him for not even trying.<p>I would like to wait out the 2 years, don't think that I will be given that opportunity.<p>You ask about cutting the loses and knowing when to let go......For me this is in the Lords hands, or at least I have tried leaving it to the Lord, WH is pushing. I figure the Lord will let me know when I need to sign the papers and move on or fight some more for my marriage. It is hard living in this place of limbo. I myself am growing and getting stronger and going on with my life and I hope that someday my WH will want to join me and our kids, and work on a stronger better marriage then what we had. And if not that is not, that is his decision that he will have to deal with it. His family has pretty much disowned him, not even that bothers him.<p>I'm sorry for the long windedness of this post, kids are with WH this weekend and I am kind of lonely, this is the first visit that they have went on. Kind of tough!!<p>Dawn

Estes- There comes a time in which waiting is not the course best taken. We all have limits, yet each of us reach those limits at different points, some sooner others never. We each know when yet others never do.<p>A time comes in your life when you finally get it . . .<p>When in the midst of all your fears and insanity you stop dead in your tracks and somewhere, the voice inside your head cries out - ENOUGH! Enough fighting and crying, or struggling to hold on. And, like a child quieting down after a blind tantrum, your sobs begin to subside, you shudder once or twice, you
blink back your tears and through a mantle of wet lashes, you begin to look at the world through new eyes.
This is your awakening...<p>You realize that it's time to stop hoping and waiting for something to change, or for happiness, safety and security to come galloping over the next horizon. You come to terms with the fact that he is not Prince Charming and you are not Cinderella and that in the real world, there aren't always fairy tale endings (or beginnings for that matter) and that any guarantee of "happily ever after" must begin with you and in the process, a sense of serenity is born of acceptance.<p>You awaken to the fact that you are not perfect and that not everyone will always love, appreciate or approve of who or what you are . . . and that's OK. (They are entitled to their own views and opinions.) And you learn the importance of loving and championing yourself and in the process, a sense of new found confidence is born of self-approval.<p>You stop complaining and blaming other people for the things they did to you (or didn't do for you) and you learn that the only thing you can really count on is the unexpected. You learn that people don't always say what they mean or mean what they say and that not everyone will always be there for you and that it's not always about you. So, you learn to stand on your own and to take care of yourself and in the process, a sense of safety & security is born of self-reliance.<p>You stop judging and pointing fingers and you begin to accept people as they are and to overlook their shortcomings and human frailties and in the process, a sense of peace & contentment is born of forgiveness.<p>You realize that much of the way you view yourself and the world around you, is a result of all the messages and opinions that have been ingrained into your psyche. You begin to sift through all the junk you've been fed about how you should behave, how you should look and how much you should weigh, what you should wear and where you should shop and what you should drive, how and where you should live and what you should do for a living, who you should marry and what you should expect of a marriage, the importance of having and raising children or what you owe your parents. You learn to open up to new worlds and different points of view. You begin reassessing and redefining who you are and what you really stand for.<p>You learn the difference between wanting and needing and you begin to discard the doctrines and values you've outgrown, or should never have bought into to begin with and in the process, you learn to go with your instincts.<p>You learn that it is truly in giving that we receive and that there is power and glory in creating and contributing and you stop maneuvering through life merely as a "consumer" looking for your next fix.<p>You learn that principles such as honesty and integrity are not the outdated ideals of a by gone era, but the mortar that holds together the foundation upon which you must build a life. <p>You learn that you don't know everything; it's not your job to save the world and that you can't teach a pig to sing. You learn to distinguish between guilt and responsibility and the importance of setting boundaries and learning to say NO. You learn that the only cross to bear is the one you choose to carry and that martyrs get burned at the stake.<p>Then you learn about love. Romantic love and familiar love. How to love, how much to give in love, when to stop giving and when to walk away. You learn not to project your needs or your feelings onto a relationship. You learn that you will not be more beautiful, more intelligent, more lovable or important because of the man on your arm or the child that bears your name.<p>You learn to look at relationships as they really are and not as you would have them be. You stop trying to control people, situations and outcomes.<p>You learn that just as people grow and change, so it is with love; and you learn that you don't have the right to demand love on your terms, just to make you happy.
You learn that alone does not mean lonely. You look in the mirror and come to terms with the fact that you will never be a size 5 or a perfect 10 and you stop trying to compete with the image inside your head and agonizing over how you "stack up."<p>You also stop working so hard at putting your feelings aside, smoothing things over and ignoring your needs. You learn that feelings of entitlement are perfectly OK and that it is your right, to want things and to ask for the things that you want and that sometimes it is necessary to make demands.<p>You come to the realization that you deserve to be treated with love, kindness, sensitivity and respect and you won't settle for less. You allow only the hands of a lover who cherishes you, to glorify you with his touch and in the process, you internalize the meaning of self-respect.<p>And you learn that your body really is your temple. And you begin to care for it and treat it with respect. You begin eating a balanced diet, drinking more water and taking more time to exercise. You learn that fatigue diminishes the spirit and can create doubt and fear. So you take more time to rest. Just as
food fuels the body, laughter fuels our soul; so you take more time to laugh and to play.<p>You learn that for the most part in life, you get what you believe you deserve and that much of life truly is a self-fulfilling prophecy.
You learn that anything worth achieving is worth working for and that wishing for something to happen, is different from working toward making it happen.
More importantly, you learn that in order to achieve success you need direction, discipline and perseverance. You also learn that no one can do it all alone and that it's OK to risk asking for help.<p>You learn that the only thing you must truly fear is the great robber baron of all time; FEAR itself. You learn to step right into and through your fears, because you know that whatever happens you can handle it and to give in to fear, is to give away the right to live life on your terms.<p>You learn to fight for your life and not to squander it living under a cloud of impending doom. You learn that life isn't always fair, you don't always get what you think you deserve and that sometimes bad things happen to unsuspecting, good people. On these occasions, you learn not to personalize things. You learn that God isn't punishing you or failing to answer your prayers; it's just life happening.<p>You learn to deal with evil in its most primal state: the ego. You learn that negative feelings such as anger, envy and resentment must be understood and redirected or they will suffocate the life out of you and poison the universe that surrounds you. You learn to admit when you are wrong and to build bridges instead of walls.<p>You learn to be thankful and to take comfort in many of the simple things we take for granted; things that millions of people upon the earth can only dream about; a full refrigerator, clean running water, a soft warm bed, a long hot shower. Slowly, you begin to take responsibility for yourself, by yourself and you make yourself a promise to never betray yourself and to never ever settle for less than your heart's desire. You hang a wind chime outside your window so you can listen to the wind and you make it a point to keep smiling, to keep trusting and to stay open to every wonderful possibility.<p>Finally, with courage in your heart and with God by your side you take a stand, you take a deep breath and you begin to design the life you want to live as best as you can.<p>AdamS

Hello Dawn,<p>Your post made me feel so sad. Are you going to try to drag out the D proceedings? My DIL's A is with a HS sweetheart, too. I think this type of A is so scary because the WS already knows this person. DIL's cared for him for years even after he broke their engagement years ago. In fact, that is how the A began. She contacted him to tell him she had finally forgiven him for doing that. I fear that the emotional roots of their relationship go too deep for her to accept the no contact necessary to heal the M. She knows the OM is a loser, yet still won't stay away from him. I plan to introduce myself to OM next weekend when I fly out for a visit. Should be interesting. [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I think that your H will probably come to regret his choices. Unfortunately, by the time many WS realize what their choices have cost them, too much damage has been done. I'm sorry for your situation.<p>Best wishes,
Estes

Adam,<p>What a lovely post. Thank you. I guess you keep trying until that moment of realization comes. If you have any doubt about whether it is time, you don't stop.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>You come to terms with the fact that he is not Prince Charming and you are not Cinderella and that in the real world, there aren't always fairy tale endings (or beginnings for that matter) and that any guarantee of "happily ever after" must begin with you and in the process, a sense of serenity is born of acceptance.
<hr></blockquote>
Ironically, S and DIL actually described themselves that way. On her business web site, DIL describes S as her "knight in shining armour."
Sadly, Camelot does not exist anymore.<p>Thanks so much for your reply. I see that you are an "old timer." [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]
Estes

Not speaking from experience - but I have read posts where the "fog" lasted over two years and ther ewas still recovery, and they people seemed happy in their marriages. <p>Some people even divorced and then reunited.<p>If we're speaking from a purely addiction standpoint, I had a family member with a gambling addiction and it took 2-5 years to really get through the whole thing, so I think addictions in general take a long time to work through.<p>I think it depends on the person, their relationship with God and where they are being led.<p>If you are Catholic, divorce is just a division of property, and you have to go through the whole annulment proceeding to dissolve the marriage - which could take from 1 to 3 years to complete. <p>You never know why God lets things happen, but the BS can still grow as a person and even move on to a certain extent and if it's meant to be the WS may turn around.<p>I think that Plan B is structured for the long term situations so that you don't completely lose love for the person, or you will actually want to divorce them and move on after a time.<p>And 2 years out, the BS should have a better perspective on whether or not they should move on or keep trying.<p>Just my 2 cents. K

My MIl survived a mid life crisis from the fil from hell, and he cheated on her and they divorced.. well eventually he and the ow divorced after they married... My MIL's advice to me, was leave the door open and wait the thing out as long as I can with 2 yrs being advised.<p>I am so sorry you are here.. but you must be a great support to your son.<p>My MOM is slowly coming around to the ideae that maybe we can work things out.. but not all that supportive.. she thinks my H hsa wronged me beyond all wrongs and that I deserve better. Which I would have to agree with her on, but I do want to forgive and heal and restore my M.. but it takes 2!<p>My prayers are going out to you.<p>Hugs, honey

I don't necessarily believe that "natural death" stuff - from what I have experienced, and what I have seen here, that does happen fairly often in affairs that occur early in the marriage, but the MLC (ie depression) affairs after a long marriage often seem to last much longer than that, and all too frequently the man ends up marrying the OW, who is either young (if he is rich) or rich (if he is not). <p>The smart thing to do is whatever is necessary to protect yourself and more importantly your children financially. If those choices conflict with waiting, then so be it.

Thanks everyone for the thought-provoking replies.<p>God is in Control, my S is really trying to resolve his W's infidelity in a Godly manner. They are seeing a Christian MC. Because DIL also has problems with depression and childhood abuse, the MC tells them that she has to work out her own personal issues if they are to rebuild their relationship. That will take a long time. So far, S is willing to stay the course, at least for now. Surely do wish she would get OM out of the picture. He is a former HS sweetheart to whom she was once engaged. Thanks for your reply!<p>
Hi honey, I am beginning to think that what your MIL said is right. There is no reason to hurry toward D if the BS can hold it together emotionally. So much can change with time. I'm glad your Mom is coming around. I know that MB has shown me that you don't just kick the WS out. Infidelity is a much more complicated issue than that if you really want to save your M. "FIL from hell" LOL!! I plan to stop by and meet the OM next weekend when I go visit my son. Should prove to be interesting.<p>
Thanks for your insight, Nellie1. I wonder if DIL's depression, and other personal issues that have nothing to do with my son, will prolong the A as the depression of a MLC does? Also, the fact that he is HS sweetheart worries me. Too much history. The "good" thing is that DIL KNOWS he is not a nice person. He doesn't even like her son/my GS. Maybe with time and counseling she will come to her senses if my S can hold out emotionally. She really does try use S to get her out of financial binds - or at least she DID. I appreciate your reply.<p>Thanks again, guys!
Estes

Hi Estes, Just cking back in on you. I do hope your son can wait.. but at the same time he can move on.. move on with his life! But without other women! I know it can be even harder for a man sometimes... but it sounds as if good things are happening... is the dil on meds... I think that would be helpful if she is not, maybe your son should suggest it to counselor privately - and have counselor suggest it. My counselor sd I should not tell my h what to do in any way right now... he made some good suggestions to my H, and he did not follow them.... but at least the counelor made the suggestion.<p>Yes, I really feel waiting is the answer... I married for life, and I plan to wait this thing out... and forgive... The more your son plan a's in the face of his wifes "bad behavior" she will see he is the one that truly loves her... <p>It sounds that she is very confused. That is good.<p>Hugs, HONEY

Estes,<p>The decision to give up on one's marriage is a highly personal one. I know you only wish for the very best for both your S and your DIL, but perhaps it is best not to advise him in such matters, but to let him come to terms with it in his own way.<p>I waited 14 mos and then filed. In my state, I only had to wait 31 days and then I was divorced. I do not regret divorcing him, and I do think that I did it on the right timetable for ME. However, I am super sorry that it came to divorce, as he refused all attempts to reconciliation, bar the one MC session.<p>As for how things ended up, it is 3 years since the affair's light of day and my exH and the OW are coming up on 2 years of their marriage. Are they happy? Who knows? I do think that they will put more than normal amount of effort into their relationship to "prove" that their relationship was "worth" all the pain they caused. So, I also think that some opf these relationships will last longer than they might normally have lasted.<p>I did want to comment on Nellie's comments. Not all WS men pick an OW who is younger or richer (nor prettier). My exH did choose a woman who was a few years older than me - I was 44 and she was 50. She was in extreme debt - $50K in credit card and personal line of debt, whereas he and I were in superb financial state. I think the WS finds an OW with whatever it is that makes them feel best about themselves. In my case, my exH replaced a capable W with an OW whom he could rescue. The act of saving/rescuing her and helping her to solve her problems must bring him a supreme sense of "Knight in Shining White Armour" satisfaction. Reality and truth is that we are all human and there are no Princes and Princesses.<p>Wishing your family only the best, Desiree

It is very difficult to know when to 'give up' and move on. Sometimes giving up isn't really resigning the end of the marriage.
I loved Adam's post (I printed it to read over and over)! What it says to me is the moment we begin to relenquish control of the situation is when things actually begin to change. <p>Trying to micromanage your marriage with an affair or even just an MLC going on is like herding cats. Can't be done. You can only control you. <p>In my situation, things moved fairly quickly. There weren't any affairs going on, but we had huge problems and trust issues. My xh filed on October 26, 2001. We worked out an agreement - I had no interest in fighting with lawyers and going to trial... I didn't want to sign the agreement as I still felt (and still feel) that the relationship could be repaired if we both were willing to work. He was not interested in trying. Very adament that the divorce what was needed to happen. I prayed and then I let go. I signed the agreement in early Jan. We got the decree on Jan. 14 (I think it may be some sort of speed record). I moved out on Jan 21. <p>We have a better relationship now than we have for the past 3 years. We talk everyday. We are kind and loving toward one another. He has said several times, "maybe we will be able to put this whole thing back together.." We don't know what the future holds for us, but I know one thing - there is a God and I am not it.

honey,<p>I agree with you that S should move on in the sense of working on a life independent of DIL until such time she is willing to change. She is on med., but from a family doctor not a psychiatrist. She is a victim of sexual abuse as a child (step-grandfather) and was abandoned by her father, so she has some real issues to deal with. Thanks for your input.<p>
Desiree,<p>Thank you for sharing your story with me. You are so right that parents cannot advise their
"children" about what to do in their marriage. What a recipe for disaster! Would not go there. However, I can relay the experience of those of you who have been there and let him do with the info what he will. Because DIL has some deep psychological issues from her past, it might take her a long time to get better and work on the M. I was hoping there were success stories here that took a long time, but were worth the wait. I'm so sorry your EX felt the need to rescue OW instead of your M. True, there is no magic kingdom.<p>
Wiffle,<p>Herding cats! LOL!! So true.
I know that even if they D, my son will always have some degree of commitment to his W. It's nice that you have such a good relationship with your xH. I think that signing a divorce decree must be one of the scariest and saddest things in the world. Thanks for sharing.<p>Take care everyone,
Estes

Estes49,<p>OOOOOoooo, I doubt if my opinion here is going to be the "popular" opinion. After all, so many people say, "let go" and "go on with your life", but I have to honestly disagree.<p>My H's A lasted 6 months; then he moved back home and would not touch me or be a husband for another 6 months; then he went back to his lover's city during the holidays; then we reconciled and he just would NOT participate in our marriage for a year. It has been TWO YEARS as of this Feb. 3rd, and he is just beginning to "come out of it".<p>So, that being said, here are my answers to your questions:<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Estes49:
<strong>The Harleys' say affairs usually "die a natural death" in from 6 months to 2 years...</strong><hr></blockquote><p>In my instance, it took maybe 6 months before he realized that she had FOUR kids under the age of 11yo, an exH in prison, and tons of baggage. Before the 6 month period, she was a perfect, sexy lover meeting all of his needs. At 6 months, he started to see that she had "issues" to put up with just like I did. <p>So at 6 months, he started to see some reality about her, but he didn't necessarily love me at all yet either. That took about 2 years, and he is just now starting to "come around."<p>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong> 1. Was it worth it to you to tolerate the struggles of the WS for years in order for the A to finally die? </strong><hr></blockquote><p>WHOA! Hard question! I personally found that the toll that it took on my was enormous. But, I looked at marriage as a LIFE-LONG commitment, so two years of very bad behavior out of a life-long relationship wasn't all that much. Does that make any sense? If we were married into our old age (let's say, for 60 years), it wasn't so huge to give two years. <p>Lord, it felt like a long time, and every day has been painful and heart-rending. It is indescribably painful to watch someone you love harm themself and make poor choices. But I grew A LOT and in the end, so did my H. Was it worth it? I don't know yet, but I am proud of myself for waiting and for doing what I thought was "the right thing" even when doing the right thing isn't always popular. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong> 2. Did you give up too soon and wish you had held out longer before seeking D? </strong><hr></blockquote><p>I'd say, if anything, that I may have held out too long, in that the price I have personally paid has been enormous. I feel now like my self-esteem was so damaged that I just let him come back home and take advantage of me, and I wish I had had some self-respect and made him "earn" some of his way back. After all, I was MORE than happy to accept him back and work on our marriage together, but he should have been taught that his choices had consequences. Now, I feel used at times, because I didn't stand up for myself. <p>I told him that if he left, and lived with her, and all that, I would NOT file for D, no matter what he did. If he was going to make that choice, HE had to do it...and until he did, I would consider us married and be willing to work on our marriage if he came back. Thus, I never filed for D and neither did he. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong> 3. If the BS can stand the stress, would you recommend that he/she give the WS the full 2 years before deciding to D?</strong><hr></blockquote><p>OH YES!! What's the rush? Why should the BS file? I would advise a BS to Plan A (which means working on themself--to be the best person, spouse, and parent that they can be), to get on with their life in the sense of finding joy again, being a mom or dad if that's applicable, having friends and family to support them, and continuing to grow as a person. But...DO NOT date and do not file. My H rubbed his A in my face and just absolutely HATED me. If I can stand the stress, you can too!<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong> 4. Did you wait longer than you should have before deciding D was the best option?</strong><hr></blockquote> See question #2 above!<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong> 5. Here's the big question: How does the BS know when to cut their losses and make the best choices possible when he/she realizes that the M is unrecoverable? </strong><hr></blockquote><p>This is a very individual question. I have chosen to stay in my marriage despite the fact that there was verbal abuse by my H, and I'm not sure this was an entirely healthy choice on my part, but I very, VERY strongly believe that relationships are about CHOICES--every day. It sounds to me as if the M may be recoverable, if your DIL were to make certain choices. <p>The most important, and painful, choice is going to be NO CONTACT. She is going to have to quit her job for the sake of the marriage and never see or hear from her lover again--EVER!! Now, once she has made this choice, your son is likely to think, "YAY! We can be married again like the old days" but in fact she will be withdrawn and sad and sullen and lonely and heartsick and pouty over losing her lover. Your son will have to survive through THAT too. Then, there may be a period where you DIL just is uncooperative. You may not see this right now, but she was hurt too. You son, even though he may be a very nice man, was not meeting her needs and she probably felt disconnected from him and lonely. Breaking it off with her lover DOES NOT reconnect them or make her feel loved. He may try to reconnect with her and may work at helping her feel loved, but it will take a while. <p>The whole trick here really is time and patience and consistency. It's hard, LORD I KNOW, but it can be done. If it were my son, I would encourage him to be patient. I would encourage him to work on himself to be the man God intends for him to be, and then, if your DIL decides to divorce, he is STILL the man God wants him to be. And I would encourage him to pace himself and take care of himself, because it could take a while. By "take care of himself" I mean get adequate sleep, eat fairly healthy, exercise (even if it's just taking a walk with the 3 yo), join a support group, have friends, go to events he enjoys, etc. <p>Hope this helps!!!<p>
CJ

AdamS,
Your post brought tears to my eyes.
You must be 102 as you are so very wise.
The words of wisdom did not go on blind eyes.
Thanks a Heep.

Thank you FaithfulWife,<p>Your story has given me hope that recovery is possible in spite of it taking a long time. I agree with your belief that M is for a lifetime. I think my son sees it that way, too. You really put it in perspective when you said - what are 2 years out of 60 years together. I am going to send S your post. I think it will give him strength. I appreciate your reply.<p>Estes